Love isn't easy? (If guys could answer, especially)

[elaine567]

I've been in a few relationships since then, and one in particular had the diametrically opposite dynamic. She never turned sex down... we'd have sex in the afternoon, at bedtime, again at 3am, and again at first light. Ok, that didn't happen ALL the time, but the point is that her mentality was such that there was not limit on my access. I'm sure there must've been times when she wasn't into it as much as me, but I never, ever heard a complaint. .

 

That doesn't mean she necessarily liked that dynamic though does it?

 

The OPs husband probably thinks the OP loves the sex too and he is a bit peeved when she says no, but in reality she is finding the sex does not make the grade as it is all about HIM and her needs for simple connection and satisfaction are going wanting here.

[salparadise]

That doesn't mean she necessarily liked that dynamic though does it?

 

That response is so elainesque, I just about spewed my drink all over my keyboard. Are you always looking for a post of mine to poop on?

 

This was an assertive woman in daily life, but submissive sexually. We were both good at reading cues. If we went to the bedroom on a saturday afternoon (common) and she said I'd just like to close my eye awhile, I would give her time to take a good nap and check in later to see if she was feeling sexual. Usually she would be and we'd just ease into it. But if I happened to be particularly worked up and came on kind of strong, she go with. She was always trying to do something to give me a higher quality orgasm... because we were into taking care of each other sexually. We viewed the other's sexual fulfillment (as well as our own) as being fundamental, in a giving, other-focused way. Not as in, I'll go along with this to avoid the consequences of saying no.

 

So the answer is no, I don't think it was her secret burden. Just like for me, shopping and preparing a nice meal for us starting a few hours before she arrived was never seen as a burden. Sexuality, food, attention, affection, appreciation... a very nice flow.

 

At this stage of my life I know what works and what I want, and I would end a relationship in a NY minute due to the stinginess, me-first, doing you a favor attitude regarding sex. Life is too short for that bullshyte.

[Alishathefirst]

I think there has been a misunderstanding. When I said I was 'doing him a favor', I was meaning it relation to helping him out. When he'd usually do it himself, or when I knew he was needing it, I'd express my love by surprising him by doing it for him. Like surprising him in the shower and when we're just talking or something. I don't feel sex at any given time is just be doing him a favor. It's not always even a problem. Most of the time it's okay.

 

Like some of you are saying, when you are cooking meals for your spouse was not a burden. I don't see me getting him off as a burden, but just me making him feel nice.

 

My main point was even though I do as much as I can. He still does what I've said previously. When I'm refusing, it's not like a 'not tonight, honey, I'm tired.' it's more of 'I'm not emotionally sound and I might freak out if we do anything'. I was more expecting him to be understanding that I'm having trouble right then, but it pushes my buttons more when he doesn't respect my boundaries.

[chinadiary]

Does he know your whole history?

[Alishathefirst]

Here's an idea that may satisfy both of your needs.

 

1. Agree with your H on the frequency of the sex per week....may at this stage, 2x's a week.

 

2. You select the nights that you're open to interaction (you're now in control and hopefully less fear). On these nights establish a signal, i.e. candles or lingerie etc, something he can't miss. (We're guys, we can step over dirty laundry and not even notice...)

 

3. You create the scene, i.e. at bedtime in the bedroom or a nooner etc that works for you. Again, you're in control and he by you initiating, feels pursued and valued.

 

4. Agree that if he's in need on a day that you have not chosen, he is welcome to "self-satisfy" but not next to you in bed, take care of business before coming to bed.

 

I have learned in my 34 years of marriage that rarely are both partners in That mood at exactly the same time. Either one declining the opportunity is seen and felt as a rejection by the other. Mutual respect is a must and a happy medium is needed. Many psychologists suggest to go with the flow and you'll soon Be in the Mood but I personally don't feel that if you're not there, you should "feel the obligation".

 

One last idea is to create a setting that is arousing to you and this will help it be more about you getting something rather than "doing him a favor". Trust me, guys don't want charity work here....that is as bad as rejection. More communication is needed between you and your H.

 

I think this is helpful. I think I have some ideas on how to send a 'message' when I'm up for. Because it's not like I don't want to be with him. My main issue is mainly just if I don't want to do certain things or what not, sometimes I feel like I don't have a choice. DO you think if we have sex more, then maybe he would respect my boundaries better? I don't want this to end, like some are saying. I love him and want this to work. In a lot of ways, he is trying and I'm trying. I sometimes feel like I'm doing a lot of the work to get myself in the mood and he just waits as if just waiting for me to ready myself so he can do me then go to sleep.

 

How should I deal with the aftermath? If say, I really can't and he gets mad? Should I still just 'feel the obligation'? Deal with him needing it and do it. I don't know I feel at such a loss. If I don't, I feel like he'll try and be okay with it then be underhanded with what he does like refusing to help when I need it. I don't know how to describe it. Sometimes it feels like he's trying to get revenge.

[Alishathefirst]

Does he know your whole history?

 

Yes. I've explained to him things that have happened. I've told him when I'm not up for it, please don't push me. It's just that I need not to have to do it. It's a trigger. It doesn't happen as much as it used to. I'm getting better, but it seems like sometimes I'm sliding back because he won't let it be. Or will be angry or withhold something else for me if I 'withhold' from him. Or has said things like 'Why is it so difficult for you to get off? I was with X person before and it was never hard for her.' I don't know how to respond.

 

I feel like my history makes it so men just won't ever want to be with me despite of it. Like men are all this way, though I'm fighting that thought because it can't be true. I choose to not let the actions of a few change my belief of men as a whole. There are good men out there. I'm not sure how to help mine to be one of them.

 

I don't want this to feel like I'm a victim. I didn't want to make this the main focus. I just need to know how to help him respect my boundaries so we can have a healthy sex life. I want to know how to change this and turn it around. Where he feels empowered to help me and not obligated. Or like he is capable of it. I'm not sure how to describe it.

[chinadiary]

There are good sensitive men out there. But most of them, quite rightly, are in relationships.

 

Would he go to therapy with you?

[Alishathefirst]

There are good sensitive men out there. But most of them, quite rightly, are in relationships.

 

Would he go to therapy with you?

 

 

No. I know that one already. It's taboo to him. He barely let me go to therapy myself and mainly because I told him it would help me be happier and we could have a healthier bedroom life.

[chinadiary]

Then I think you should do what is best for you. That might mean moving beds if you wake up to him rubbing on you. It might mean only having sex if you want to.

 

Are you safe with him?

[Alishathefirst]

Then I think you should do what is best for you. That might mean moving beds if you wake up to him rubbing on you. It might mean only having sex if you want to.

 

Are you safe with him?

 

I believe so? What would make it seem I wasn't? I mean sometimes he's not easy to be around but I'm not always easy either. No one is. I don't think he'd ever hit me if that's what you are meaning.

[chinadiary]

A range of reasons.

 

* He knows your history but you wake up to him rubbing himself on you, something that he must KNOW will scare you

* He has sex with you in a detached way and then gets off and leaves you unsatisfied

* When you ask for reciprocal satisfaction he is horrified

 

But I genuinely hope I'm misinterpreting. I would hate to think you were in danger. Because if you are, moving beds if you wake up to him rubbing on you, refusing him sex, could be dangerous.

 

 

I feel for you. I hope you are able to reach a compromise that leaves you feeling safe while able to maintain the marriage, because I can see you want to stay with him.

[S2B]

Yes. I've explained to him things that have happened. I've told him when I'm not up for it, please don't push me. It's just that I need not to have to do it. It's a trigger. It doesn't happen as much as it used to. I'm getting better, but it seems like sometimes I'm sliding back because he won't let it be. Or will be angry or withhold something else for me if I 'withhold' from him. Or has said things like 'Why is it so difficult for you to get off? I was with X person before and it was never hard for her.' I don't know how to respond.

 

I feel like my history makes it so men just won't ever want to be with me despite of it. Like men are all this way, though I'm fighting that thought because it can't be true. I choose to not let the actions of a few change my belief of men as a whole. There are good men out there. I'm not sure how to help mine to be one of them.

 

I don't want this to feel like I'm a victim. I didn't want to make this the main focus. I just need to know how to help him respect my boundaries so we can have a healthy sex life. I want to know how to change this and turn it around. Where he feels empowered to help me and not obligated. Or like he is capable of it. I'm not sure how to describe it.

 

You can't "make him" do anything.

 

Look ---> he already makes you the victim by completely disrespecting you, ignoring your healthy boundary, doesn't try and please you and won't get therapy!

 

You're left with him never changing.

 

Since you don't like it then divorce him. I bet he changes then... I bet he considers therapy then too.

 

Do that - he needs to understand how much he's harming you just like your prior violation. No one needs that.

 

It's unforgivable if he doesn't intend to change by considering your feelings.

 

He's left you ONLY this choice if he won't change his ways/perspective/and willingness to get counseling.

 

 

It's dispicable that he says it's not worth his effort because it takes effort to get you off. He's selfish. I bet the other gals he dated faked it. Not many gals orgasm from penetration - and we all heard he doesn't enjoy oral - so this guy is just plain lazy and not considering you.

 

I'd rather date a vibrator!

[chinadiary]

I feel like the aggressive posters on here need to back off and let Alisha get to that point on her own.

 

She's already explained aggression is a trigger for her, so show some compassion!

[kgcolonel]

I think this is helpful. I think I have some ideas on how to send a 'message' when I'm up for. Because it's not like I don't want to be with him. My main issue is mainly just if I don't want to do certain things or what not, sometimes I feel like I don't have a choice. DO you think if we have sex more, then maybe he would respect my boundaries better? I don't want this to end, like some are saying. I love him and want this to work. In a lot of ways, he is trying and I'm trying. I sometimes feel like I'm doing a lot of the work to get myself in the mood and he just waits as if just waiting for me to ready myself so he can do me then go to sleep.

 

How should I deal with the aftermath? If say, I really can't and he gets mad? Should I still just 'feel the obligation'? Deal with him needing it and do it. I don't know I feel at such a loss. If I don't, I feel like he'll try and be okay with it then be underhanded with what he does like refusing to help when I need it. I don't know how to describe it. Sometimes it feels like he's trying to get revenge.

 

 

Alis,

 

Good for you in that you see the give and take here. I think that sometimes in our 34 year marriage, I or she have not particularly been "in the mood" but with some "gentle" understanding and good communication there can be a "happy" compromise here.

 

When you say "you don't want to do certain things" are referring to never wanting to do things he is pressuring you to do or just not at that moment?

 

Personally and from a LTM perspective, I really don't think the frequency is the issue here but the feeling of rejection that is the issue. He feels rejected, however that is no excuse for what he is doing as a response. That to me is inexcusable!!

 

I really think that some MC is in order here but if not, some really none accusatory communication starting with: Honey, I really enjoy and admire you when you ...... I want this to be more frequent as it makes me want you...."

 

"When you do xxxxxx, it creates space between us and makes me cringe when you want to have s3x. I know you don't want me to feel this way, so what do you think we can do to change this?"

 

"I love you and you're my man so let's work together to fix this, for the sake of us".

 

 

Maybe an approach like this will help.

[redtail]

So, is this weird? Or is this somewhat normal for guys to do?

As a man, let me answer your question directly, no, this is NOT normal. No, not all guys in a healthy relationship do this.

 

Guys have control over their sexual urges, anyone who tells you otherwise is suspect in my opinion. Sex in a relationship, must be mutual and never should cross boundaries, it is not obligatory just because your partner happens to have an erection at the moment.

 

I think marital counseling is in order, a third party will help both of you obtain perspective.

[Cullenbohannon]

As a man, it is 100% normal to want sex every day. And barring poor health, it is 100% normal to try for it. Any man saying anything else is suspect.

 

I get the butt wiggles when I am tired. If nothing is working "at the moment", I may simply fall asleep. A few hours later, more butt wiggles. A little rest is usualy all it takes, and since she wants what she wants, then it's on.

 

"Not right now" FOR EITHER OF US, does not cause annoyance because the reasons are sound. If your boundaries are based on the evil that was inflicted upon you, (its a trigger) then you need help separating past from present.

 

In regards to asking whether having more sex will help the situation, the question must be asked, does he deserve it.

 

Based on your description of your love life, No he does not.

Your husband sucks in bed. Actually, based on your words, i guess he doesnt. If it was really good, 50% of your problem would not exist. Demanding more sex, while being inconsiderate, accepting but refusing to give, is beyond selfish.

 

Get some IC to deal with your past. Insist he see a sex therapist (?) because once you heal, you may not tolerate a inconsiderate lover.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Cullenbohannon

[BluesPower]

Oh come on folks...

 

Alishathefirst, dear, what everyone fails to see is how young you guys are.

 

LS, can't you guys see that even with OP sexual abuse issues, that her HUSBAND is young and clueless about a lot.

 

It does not make him some horrible monster, it just makes him stupid. And how many grown men have come here with infidelity issues or issues keeping a girlfriend only to find out that they don't know the first thing about women, relationships, or sex.

 

Alishathefirst, You have gotten a lot of opinions here and many are good. So here is another.

 

What your husband is doing is wrong and stupid. But in his mind it is not malicious, he is just stupid and insensitive like a lot of young guys.

 

Having said that, it is up to you to deal with your sexual issues whatever that takes. And I am in no way saying that it is easy.

 

Both of you are so young and you need to realize that you both have a lot to learn about marriage, sex, working through problems. For example, both of you and especially your Husband need to understand and learn about sexual abuse and how to get over it. He needs a far better understanding of and way more empathy for what you have been through.

 

Both of you need to learn about sex, how to talk about it and how, and for him to LISTEN about it. He needs to learn about sex in general, especially in marriage. And of course about emotional closeness, which all young men usually have zero idea about.

 

Now if he is unwilling to learn, or unable to understand then you may have some really big issues.

 

There are several axioms that I live by that in spite of all the male bashers on this thread, I find that they have worked well for me through out the years.

 

1) In an exclusive romantic relationship, like a marriage, there is a school of thought that says "your bodies are not your own, that they belong to each other" Now, ingoing the cries or marital rape and abuse, there is a lot to be said about that notion. Another way of putting it would be, with in certain circumstances, sex on demand.

 

Still another way of putting it, and this is when the other parts of the relationship are good, is that when you are in love with one another, you should both want to have sex at every opportunity.

 

And yes folks I understand that life gets in the way, especially in marriage. That does not however mean that those that allow life to encroach on your love and sex life are correct in doing so.

 

2) When you reject him, you make him feel worthless. If you do it to often, then he will begin resenting you. At some point, this will kill the love he has for you.

 

Just as his insensitivity will eventually kill the love that you have for him.

 

3) The thought that you are doing him a favor by having sex with him or getting him off is just such a horrible attitude about sex in a marriage that I don't ever know where to start.

 

4) As sexist as it is, I believe that it is the Mans responsibility to please his woman (especially wife) in bed, what ever that takes. If he needs to learn about sex, become better at sex or whatever, it is his job to make sure you are completely satisfied in the bedroom. This is obviously where your husband is falling way short of the mark.

 

And I take it a step further, it is a mans responsibility to make/help his wife feel like she is the most beautiful and most sexy woman in the world.

 

So, read some of the suggestions here about what to do, but understand that both of you have lot to learn about sex and a host of other issues relating to marriage and sexual abuse.

 

And your husband needs to grow up and understand a lot more about sex and what it means to help your wife through a problem than he currently does. For him, all I can say is that it is time to grow up and wake up...

[S2B]

He may not be educated on this area Blues, but the OP did say that she has had "many talks" with him about this specifically and he hasn't changed.

 

It's a matter of her needing to deal with the violation in her past - and also feeling safe around her own husband.

 

If she doesn't feel safe then I don't see how the M can continue... in the end it would just be another violation much as her past!

 

Seek professional help OP - and determine if you can feel safe with your H.

 

If that's not possible then he leaves you no choice but to end the M.

[dichotomy]

Is he a good husband right now - does he do things for you - to support you and your interests and wishes and wants? Help around home with child care and things?

 

Is he giving/considerate outside the bedroom?

[BarbedFenceRider]

Your husband understands a simple thing really....A penis goes into a vagina. But seriously, men are simple creatures. We do desire closeness and intimacy, but usually primal urges being what they are. A lot of the thinking is done..."down there". The act of rubbing up on ya is hardly unknown. Spooning and pseudo sexual touch are common activities. The fact that your husband does this and not the other way around is surprising. My wife has to be in constant contact with me during the night or she will not sleep well. Even if here in the desert it is 95 degrees and no breeze! lol

I think your sexual clocks are not in sync. 7 years in marriage and it sounds like a chore for you. He is excited by your presence and shows it kinda funny, i agree. But still he desires you. After 7 years, not many do. Just sayin'. Intimacy isn't changing the radiator fluid on a car. It isn't replacing that light bulb in the kitchen. It requires both partners to communicate and lovingly express feelings toward each other. BTW...Your idea of "letting him know" by taking a shower....Not very good. You might as well as teach him semaphore. Were talking a guy here. Not a TV novella.

[salparadise]

LS, can't you guys see that even with OP sexual abuse issues, that her HUSBAND is young and clueless about a lot.

 

It does not make him some horrible monster, it just makes him stupid.

 

Still another way of putting it, and this is when the other parts of the relationship are good, is that when you are in love with one another, you should both want to have sex at every opportunity.

 

2) When you reject him, you make him feel worthless. If you do it to often, then he will begin resenting you. At some point, this will kill the love he has for you.

 

Just as his insensitivity will eventually kill the love that you have for him.

 

3) The thought that you are doing him a favor by having sex with him or getting him off is just such a horrible attitude about sex in a marriage that I don't ever know where to start.

 

I think there is a lot of truth in this post by BluesPower... and I think the word "insensitivity" best describes the push-pull dynamic on both sides. I don't think either is malicious, it's just that they both want what they want and the attitude of free-flowing sexual generosity is being overshadowed by not getting their respective needs met... to the point that other-focused positive regard has become an unintentional casualty.

 

The solution is giving, giving, and giving more without keeping score. Quit thinking in terms of who wins, or who gets to control. Resentment is the enemy, not your partner... and the way to beat that is by expressing appreciation to the degree that resentment dies from lack of nourishment.

 

 

 

He may not be educated on this area Blues, but the OP did say that she has had "many talks" with him about this specifically and he hasn't changed.

 

It's a matter of her needing to deal with the violation in her past - and also feeling safe around her own husband.

 

If she doesn't feel safe then I don't see how the M can continue... in the end it would just be another violation much as her past!

 

Seek professional help OP - and determine if you can feel safe with your H.

 

If that's not possible then he leaves you no choice but to end the M.

 

 

I think it's apparent that OP really wants her marriage to work, and that she's not inclined to quit because it's not perfect. Jumping to divorce is way too easy when it's not your marriage. This is not where she is or what she wants, and it doesn't sound like to me that hope is lost either. It's sort of like telling a homeless person to get a job. Let's tune into her feelings and try to meet her where she is... and I think ending it would be the worst possible outcome for her.

 

"feeling safe around her own husband" These words only serve to escalate the issue. She said herself that she doesn't feel unsafe, it's more like misunderstood and under appreciated. Resorting to the phrase "feeling safe" to win is playing the trump card. Whatever trauma she experienced in the past needs to be dealt with and worked around and through. Flushing the marriage means letting the trauma win, and allowing it to define the future. That's not where she is now. She's hoping for a good outcome and we should be supporting that.

[elaine567]

I think it all boils down to a marriage that is glued together by the love of a son and little else.

 

The OP is working so hard to make this work, but she is up against some stiff opposition.

 

She is like the sibling who every year goes out at Xmas and buys a whole lot of expensive and thoughtful gifts for her family to find all she gets in return is a collection of cheap bath/shower products and a gift voucher for not very much.

It is not as if her family is poor or did not have the time, it is just that they did not care enough to appreciate her and the effort she put in.

They are selfish and clueless, and no doubt will be moaning when next year she wakes up to what is really happening, and thus shows up with very little...

She worked hard to manufacture "love" and have a great family Xmas, but it just wasn't there, there was no reciprocation.

 

The OP has just realised that she is the one dispensing the gifts and very little is coming back her way.

She is going to therapy, she is the one trying to make it work, she is "gifting" all the love and the sex to please her husband, and she is getting little back in return and when she does voice HER needs, HER needs do not seem to matter...

 

You cannot "buy" love.