Painful and lonely separation

[Spurned]

Jeez, LJ, I really do think she loves me in the way that she knows to love. It's not like she's been married multiple times. She's had TONS of boyfriends, most richer and better-looking than I am. And she chose me to take the plunge.

 

Like you said, you can't save them all.

 

Damn it all to hell if I won't think of her from time to time for the rest of my life, no matter whom I'm with.

 

She's emotionally manipulative, callous, and selfish. And I still love her because I think she doesn't know any better.

 

The question is whether I love myself enough to move on. I think I do.

[Ladyjane14]

How are you doing Spurned?

[Spurned]

LJ, I'm doing great, and thanks for asking. I hope everything is well with you.

 

My estranged wife and I went to a counseling session and everything opened up. I learned things about the marriage I never knew before. She definitely was unhappy, had tried to voice it many times, and then made horrific decisions as how to cope with her unhappiness.

 

I feel so strong these days, and feel that I am psychologically prepared for whatever happens. I know that given all the indications, the prognosis is poor for this marriage surviving, but I always said I'm amenable to talking with her and helping her see that although I had some deficiencies as a husband by not communicating with her and not putting effort into the marriage, that it was mostly HER issues. She harbored a lot of resentment for me that I never KNEW even existed, and she projected her own insecurity and unhappiness onto her husband.

 

I've been talking with my attorney and he has advised me to keep the papers filed. If by some miracle, things work out, we deal with our issues, and she freaking grows up and I make the necessary changes, we can always stop this divorce at the last minute. But if a few months down the road, she or I blow it and we realize this marriage is hopeless, then the divorce will go through.

 

What worried me was that she might have been falling in love with these guys, but she has assured me that that was not the case, and knowing all that I know and have found out (stuff she doesn't even know I know), I do believe her. I think hers was a narcissistic motive for self-validation, not the FOG you often read about on these message boards that a cheater sometimes gets wrapped up in thinking it's true love with an illicit lover. I'm hoping she will learn not to need so much validation to be happy with herself. I think that by setting me up as the source of her happiness or unhappiness, failure was inevitable. I'm just hoping that this psychological shift can occur in a 33 year-old woman

 

I'm dealing with resentment issues right now. But I'm able to take a step back and look at the bigger picture: I've aged 10 years emotionally and feel I learned a great deal about marriage, relationships, and self-respect in the process. I grew closer to my friends and family than I ever was before. I made some mistakes during the marriage, and a couple of mistakes during the separation (I kind of messed around with a couple different women, and I'm wondering if I should tell her), but mistakes are a part of life. I'm hoping that no matter the outcome, both she and I are able to learn from these mistakes and to become better people as a result of them.

[Ladyjane14]

What worried me was that she might have been falling in love with these guys, but she has assured me that that was not the case, and knowing all that I know and have found out (stuff she doesn't even know I know), I do believe her. I think hers was a narcissistic motive for self-validation, not the FOG you often read about on these message boards that a cheater sometimes gets wrapped up in thinking it's true love with an illicit lover. I'm hoping she will learn not to need so much validation to be happy with herself. I think that by setting me up as the source of her happiness or unhappiness, failure was inevitable. I'm just hoping that this psychological shift can occur in a 33 year-old woman.

 

This is just my opinion, mind you....but I think that "the fog" is actually easier to defeat than changing whatever innate narcissistic qualities are causal in one partner's cheating.

 

To defeat "the fog" is to overcome an addiction. To defeat narcissistic tendancies, one must change their very personality, adjust their ego. Those who cannot manage it go on to a life of serial cheating, never finding true contentment in their relationship, always searching for something more to fill the great void within them.

 

Anyway, you sound 100% better than you did in your first post. This wasn't all your fault, and it's good that you're finally seeing that.

 

I grew closer to my friends and family than I ever was before. I made some mistakes during the marriage, and a couple of mistakes during the separation (I kind of messed around with a couple different women, and I'm wondering if I should tell her), but mistakes are a part of life.

 

This is also good. You've revitalized your relationship with your loved ones. I think you may find that you will still need their support for some time to come. You're not out of the woods yet.....so your attorney's advice is right-on.

 

As far as "messing around" goes....as long as you weren't hurting anyone's feelings, if you were up front and honest with the girls you went out with, if you've protected yourself and others from potential STD's....then you're probably still on defensible ground. Again, that's just my opinion.

 

It was your wife who changed the parameters of the relationship. Monogamy was the rule.....then, by her choice....the rule no longer applied.

 

Personally, I'd like to see folks waiting until they're really finished with one relationship before starting another.....but that just ain't gonna happen. You filed for divorce, and were living separated with the intention of staying that way.

 

That said, I don't think there is cause for secrecy. In fact, the longer you wait to tell her.....the more difficult it will be to do.

 

Three things can happen when you tell her:

 

1. She might reinvest in protecting her relationship with you. This would be a reaction to jealousy, maybe an angry one, maybe a remorseful one. But she'll see you as capable of abandoning the marriage, and redouble her efforts in order to keep rivals away.

 

2. She could absolve herself of her guilt in the affairs. That will mean an eventual return to her previous behavior.

 

3. She might decide that it's all too difficult, and walk away altogether.

 

In any event, if you 'stir the pot' by invoking complete honesty, you'll get an opportunity to see what rises to the top.

[Spurned]

Your advice is always right on, and I appreciate it.

 

I'm still trying to sort out what happened. Per her, her friends, family, and a couple of ex-boyfriends I've talked with, she has NEVER cheated before. I do believe that. But she cheated on the guy she was willing to marry. I'm not sure what to make of it, but it sure doesn't help my ego any. Is it a good thing that she never did this before? That may portend some hope. It argues against her being a serial cheater, I think.

 

I'm fashioning a working theory that she has a basic need for validation, coupled with the feeling that I wasn't contributing enough emotionally or physically to the marriage. Man, I've never been married before, it' my first go, and I'm now learning what it takes.

 

She admits she was horribly wrong and she seems very remorseful, but is having insight to the error of your ways enough to prevent you from doing it again in the future? I'm trying to come to terms with how someone who says she loves me could devastate me in this way.

 

She has shown some willingness to stick with this marriage, but I am SO EXTREMELY apprehensive. My parents are so disappointed with her, and her parents think I'm a horrible husband, and everybody thinks each of us is crazy for even TALKING to each other. I've told her in the past that I would never be her husband again, and I'm wondering if I open then door for reconciliation if she will feel she can get away with this crap again in the future. I'm taking each day one at a time. I'll be honest, though, LJ, that I'm scared to fail at this marriage and I'm scared to work it out as well.

 

About those women, yes I was completely honest with them. It was mostly physical for me. It's not that I NEEDED sex with them, but I wanted it and as far as I know, no bad consequences have come of it. On some immature level I felt as if I were "catching up." Disgusting thinking, I know.

 

She has shown quite a jealousy about some of the female friendships I've cultivated during our separation and has made it quite clear that if we are going to try to reconcile this marriage, then all of the crap with other people has to stop. She wants me to stop talking to these new women; as far as I know she has not talked with any other men. She has played me voicemails of the man she dumped in New York as a gesture of honesty. He hasn't seen her in five months and yet is still pining over her and calling her once a week. She isn't answering and wants to stop his pleading voicemails.

 

I've mentioned to her some of the research I've done about what happened. I proffered the idea that perhaps it was some innate insecurity in her that can't be fixed. She scoffed at that. Her reasoning? She gets hit on ALL the time as part of her work, and turns down men as a matter of course. She says she was vulnerable because we had gotten into a HUGE argument a week before she met the man in New York in which I disrespected her. She feels she has sacrificed so much to make this life for us and that I was crapping on our relationship, so she looked for emotional validation (which eventually turned physical) outside of the relationship.

 

There is just so much going on, I can't write everything, but I have to tell you you all have helped me so much. LJ, I especially appreciate what you have to say.

 

For those of you in the midst of a newly discovered betrayal, let me offer the solace that it does get better with time, no matter how bad or hopeless you feel right now.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm fashioning a working theory that she has a basic need for validation, coupled with the feeling that I wasn't contributing enough emotionally or physically to the marriage.

 

If she has "a basic need for validation" that enables her to seek outside the marriage when she feels her need is being unmet.....where does that leave you for the long haul?

 

We can't meet ALL of our partner's need throughout a life-long marriage. All of us, no matter how much we try, will disappoint our spouse now and then. We will all FAIL to meet basic needs at times. We'll occasionally 'drop the ball' despite our very best intentions.

 

She admits she was horribly wrong and she seems very remorseful, but is having insight to the error of your ways enough to prevent you from doing it again in the future?

 

Honestly, I don't know. It seems to be enough for some people, but it's not enough for others. How do you know when someone is REALLY taking responsibility for their mistakes, or just blowing sunshine up your bum? It's a good question, but my concern is here.....

....her parents think I'm a horrible husband...

 

Why do they think that? If it's based on whatever she's recently told them, then it doesn't sound like she's taken ownership of the infidelity. She seems to still be wanting to cast the blame on you. As in THESE comments:

She says she was vulnerable because we had gotten into a HUGE argument a week before she met the man in New York in which I disrespected her. She feels she has sacrificed so much to make this life for us and that I was crapping on our relationship, so she looked for emotional validation (which eventually turned physical) outside of the relationship.

 

I don't know what to make of that. It sounds like blame-shifting and excuse-making to me. But if you intend to allow the possibility of reconciliation....perhaps you need to base your decision on a professional opinion.

 

I'll be honest, in my unprofessional opinion.....she's still workin' ya.

[Spurned]

Hers is a really proud family, and knowing them, I understand why she rationalizes the way she does.

 

Consider that she has admitted to having a relationship outside of the marriage to her parents AND that I have detailed her affair to her mother.

 

AND YET THEY WOULD RATHER BLAME HER AFFAIR on my deficiencies as a husband than to accept that it was a horrible choice she made during the marriage. That's how they cope with this problem. They'd like no bad word to be spoken of their daughter.

 

She admits to making a horrible mistake; that's a great start. I think that she is trying to mitigate the seriousness of her actions by explaining her unhappiness with my level of effort in the marriage. I DO think that that is a natural reaction for her and a normal human defense mechanism in general, but I'd like her to take more responsibility for what she's done. Even now, she's expressing happiness that I'm making changes, but she's not focusing enough on the changes I believe she has to make within herself. Time will tell if she will address these issues.

 

Let's face it; if she couldn't mitigate it in this way, the only explanation that would be left would be that she had the affair just to have it. And that's just evil!

[Ladyjane14]

Let's face it; if she couldn't mitigate it in this way, the only explanation that would be left would be that she had the affair just to have it. And that's just evil!

 

Or......she could admit, and take responsibility for her apparent need for validation and constant attention.

 

If she wasn't busy mitigating her actions with your deficiancies, she'd have to look inward and wonder why it's necessary for her to be at the center of attention. Particularly when that "attention" is bound to have a really, really NEGATIVE effect on her family dynamic.

[Spurned]

Agreed.

 

We'll just have to see what happens.

 

I'm not holding my breath. Life goes on, and it's been going great for me professionally. I'm off of clinical rotations doing research for a few months, and have a lot of free time. I've gotten up to running 2 or 3 miles a day and I've been lifting weights. Ten pounds shed, shoulders broadened, and I'm looking and feeling sweet!

 

My friends are getting me into surfing and I'm planning to pick up golf. I almost feel like a doctor cliche!!

[Spurned]

Well my wife and I tried to work things out.

 

I laid down some ground rules: if she really wanted to try to reconcile, she needed to do NC with her boyfriend she had during the separation. She agreed. Supposedly, she told him she was coming home to me to try to work things out.

 

Meanwhile, I was checking her emails and voicemails (which she eventually found out and flipped out over).

 

Every once in a while, she would email the dude. I became angry and told her that it was messed up, but there was ALWAYS an excuse for her to "need" to talk to him, whether it was about money owed or favors needed. And she was always defensive and angry about me spying on her, saying I didn't trust her. Well, duh!

 

Even my therapist told her, you can't expect your husband to stop being paranoid if you tell him you won't contact the OM anymore and do it furtively. Your husband WILL find out and you'll be back at square one.

 

She couldn't stop doing it!

 

I'm sure she fell out of love with me a long time ago. Perhaps it was guilt that kept her coming back? Regardless, we spent last week in San Francisco, a kind of last hurrah. She agreed not to contact OM (tenth time telling me this, yes I'm an idiot) and I agreed to not bring up the past. It was a beautiful shopping trip, relatively nice but cold. And yet, every day or so she would receive a private call on her cell phone and the caller would not leave a voicemail.

 

Red flags raised again. Are you beginning to get the picture? He finally left a voicemail telling her to expect some packages at her house. She admitted that she called him and "left a voicemail" about some financial matters they needed to resolve.

 

We had a terrible argument on the drive home, she told me it would never work out. Four days later, I asked her to try to be honest for once. Was she talking to the OM again? And she said yes, that they don't have a relationship but they are talking.

 

I went home (she's living in our house in another city), took a deep breath, decided I didn't care if she felt I was immature, not classy or what, and wrote the OM an email basically telling him he's a sleazeball for still contacting my wife even after promising me man to man he would leave us alone. She called twice and left voicemails chewing me out. I'm done talking with this psycho. She says I always show her how immature I can be, and admittedly, I'm only 30 and a little bit nuts, but I never had TWO affairs during the first year of marriage, and then continue to lie during our reconciliation attempt.

 

Somebody shoot me if I ever date a fashion model again

 

She may not be evil, but the things she did during this marriage and during the reconciliation are MESSED UP.

 

When I told myself no contact before, I wasn't being completely honest with myself: I still wanted things to work out and eventually talked to her again.

 

This time, I will never look back. I couldn't see it all before, being so immersed in the drama. Love kills me!!

[Ladyjane14]

She says I always show her how immature I can be, and admittedly, I'm only 30 and a little bit nuts, but I never had TWO affairs during the first year of marriage, and then continue to lie during our reconciliation attempt.

 

You know, Spurned....you always seem to 'buy in' to her negative opinion of you. Why is that?

 

She says you're "immature", and you agree with her? Here's an example right here: "...admittedly, I'm only 30 and a little bit nuts".

 

This is WHY she's still able to "work" you. You're both convinced that she's right and you're wrong. She's all cosmopolitan and sophisticated and you're just some dumb kid who doesn't know any better.

 

Listen, you are NOT wrong to want a partner who VALUES you. If the fact that your wife has boyfriends wasn't hurtful to you...that'd be one thing. But she KNOWS she's hurting you, and she's not willing to stop hurting you. Think about that for a minute, man. She knows she's hurting you but she won't stop doing it. What does that tell you?

 

If there's ONE THING you can do for yourself right now....I think it would be to work on your confidence. Not your professional confidence, I'm sure that's probably fine. But your inner self needs some support. You need to believe in whatever it is that you choose to stand for.

 

If you believe that monogamy in marriage is important...than stand up and be counted. Do it fearlessly. You have an absolute right to believe in whatever personal values you choose. Other people don't get to decide what's right for YOU. That's tantamount to someone else choosing your religion for you.

 

This time, I will never look back.

 

You won't even be tempted to look back...once you have some faith in yourself. The opening she's been using in order to get you to see things her way, will be blocked....once you commit to your own beliefs.

[Spurned]

I agree with what you've said, LJ. Provocative prose.

 

It is impossible not to take a blow to the ego from something like this. I've had girlfriends before, even what I would consider long-term relationships. As far as I know, I was never cheated on. And no one previously ever reduced me to a paranoid, spying, psychological mess. Wow! She's had a lot of power over me for a long time. Can you imagine checking somebody's voicemails multiple times throughout the day, wondering if another man is calling your wife?

 

I can't even BELIEVE I was involved in this crap.

 

People keep telling me: I'm successful, hilarious, nice, look hot (okay I added that last part), and that this won't even faze me in the long run. For now, I accept that my ego is bruised.

 

But I won't change. I want monogamy and honesty in a marriage, and a partner who doesn't blame-shift like she does. Last night, she called me to tell me what an ass I've been (WHAT?) and was about to launch into a long monologue about an important lesson I need to learn for MY LIFE (and I'm thinking to myself, you've GOT to be kidding, right? Moi? I need a life lesson?) so I hang up on her just as she starts it.

 

And that, folks, will be the last time I ever take a phone call from this woman. It's hard not to hurt and be bitter and angry--the crazy thing is I really do think she's doing the right thing for HER OWN HAPPINESS. Never did she pause to think that the trail of 20 odd guys she's left in the dust indicates a really suspicious pattern.

 

I consider myself intelligent and well-achieved. And I can tell you I have been as blind and stupid during this craziness as the next joe. Can you imagine me on the verge of receiving lessons in life from an adulterous wife who lies every single day of her life?

 

My self-esteem? I'll start working on it. My friends tell me that I deserve so much more, that trust and monogamy are just the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM in a marriage. It's de facto, dammit!

[Ladyjane14]

My friends tell me that I deserve so much more....

 

Your friends are right.

You deserve to be with someone who won't deliberately hurt you and then tell you you're "an ass" for feeling the pain.

[Spurned]

Well, I left that crazy woman in the dust and let the divorce proceed. She called a month later after absolutely no contact and left a voicemail telling me that I was the only one who ever truly loved her, and that she knew that she screwed the marriage up. I'll admit it tugged at my heartstrings. She tried calling about once a day after that but gave up after a week of tearful pleading.

 

Some part of me wanted to call her back, but the larger part of me finally understood that NO person who truly loved me could possibly have done those things to us; especially so early in the marriage. And I left it alone. I have to concede that she sounded so honest in her pleading and so regretful. But I had already given her so many chances, it wasn't worth wasting my time fretting over. Furthermore, it wouldn't be fair to the new woman I am with, who, while not a fashion model, is entirely intelligent, devoted, beautiful, dirty in bed, and respectful. We RESPECT each other.

 

My career is going so well. I scored in the 99th percentile for my training level of residency and hopefully will get a spot doing additional surgical training to reconstruct head and neck defects. You might see me going to third world countries to fix congenital defects in a few years! I am so excited about the prospect of finally doing fulfilling work and meeting wonderful, beautiful, stimulating people all over the planet.

 

I still crack nasty jokes, and I still love video games. I still work out like I always did, and now have a four-pack (that's a six-pack of abs that's not quite there). Nowadays, I more actively think about how to keep my relationship respectful, fresh, and loving. Love is but one of the things I try to foster, in addition to honesty, respect, physical intimacy, and spontaneity.

 

My older brother and his wife are pregnant with their second child; my little brother just graduated from college; my parents are both working part-time in careers that interest them in their "retirement" so their minds don't melt away. And I watch cancer patients die every so often. In retrospect, knowing how many good and more important things there are out there, I realized that the end of the marriage wasn't that bad a deal. I had lungs to breathe with, a wicked sense of humor, loving people all around, a not-so-shabby tan, a new-found commitment to my health, and the potential for true happiness.

 

I am so happy these days and look back rarely at the madness that occurred. I can only say that I am grateful I found those things out so early and was able to divest myself of that looniness. I feel bad for those who have that permanent bond of children and can't even begin to think what it would be like to still have to communicate with an ex like that.

 

In my weaker moments I am a little bitter about what transpired. And in my strongest moments, I thank my ex-wife. She let me go to enjoy the rest of my life and to be happy!

[Ladyjane14]

When I saw your post on Canuck's thread, I was wondering how you were doing. I'm glad you gave us an update... and even more glad that things are going so well for you now.

 

And I watch cancer patients die every so often. In retrospect, knowing how many good and more important things there are out there, I realized that the end of the marriage wasn't that bad a deal. I had lungs to breathe with, a wicked sense of humor, loving people all around, a not-so-shabby tan, a new-found commitment to my health, and the potential for true happiness.

 

There's something about observing folks who are in REAL trouble that tends to put it all in perspective for us. When you're smack dab in the middle of a relationship crisis, it's hard to imagine that it's not a BIG PICTURE issue. But really, it's not. The "big picture" is living and dying and what you do with the time in between.

 

I'm really pleased to hear how well things are going on the career front. I've heard about doctors who go to third world places doing clinics for things like cleft palates and cataracts. Conditions which are so correctable in first world nations can be a sentence of death in other parts of the world. Having an opportunity to make that big of a difference in someone's life is living in the BIG PICTURE!

 

The lessons you've carried away from your previous relationship are going to continue to serve you well. You can't UN-learn it. Once you know how a committed relationship is supposed to work, you'll find yourself doing your part in confidence, and you'll know how to help your partner along if she's flagging behind.

 

Good on you, Spurned.

You're a success story for other guys in your situation, and I hope you'll continue to keep us updated on how you're doing.