Normal wife gone off the deep end....I think!

[jonybgood]

So Hi again. This forum has really helped me out already. Thank you for all your advise. Now for thread # 3. In a nut shell 3 months ago my "perfectly normal and stable"wife of 13 years left me and our two boys and moved out because"she loved me but was not in love with me" anymore. She said there was no one else in her life at that time. Turns out she was/is having at the very least an emotional affair with a co-worker. He is a 2nd degree sexual predator. (if you want to invest some time into this read my first two threads "wife left after 13 years" and "wife is living with a sexual predator"). It may be physical but she says no, but at the same time why would she tell the truth?

 

Here is the question. am I a complete idiot for thinking that we could work this thing out eventually? (at this time she says no way) Now you might ask yourself why I would want to work this thing out with a woman who 1. cheated 2. doesn't want me 3. put her children in dangerous situation And 4. abandoned her family and responsibility?

 

Good questions all as I have asked them of myself and I have to answer honestly. Because I know what we had, and I know what we did wrong and am willing to fix it. I also know what the right thing for our children is. The boys need a mother in the house. I am not a mother and a father to them. I am their father. If God intended only one person to raise children properly he would have built us differently. But most of all it is because I do love her and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I was happy before, but apparently I needed to do something differently. I also know what we could have if we could both get on the same page.

 

What I don't know is why she can't see that we both have the same goal in mind, just different ways of getting there. She believes that some other person is going to fulfill her life when even after divorce usually it is not better off for anyone involved. Any one have any opinions?

[jonybgood]

OK there is one more question. I have been reading and looking at the marriagebuilders website thanks to one of the people here who suggested it to me. A lot of good concepts there. There is a weekend seminar and a lesson course on re-building your marriage.

 

Here is the tough part. Any suggestions on how to suggest going on this to my wife without making her feel pressured? Especially when she has told me that she has no desire to rebuild at this time.

[Ladyjane14]

You have nothing to lose by just coming out and asking her. She has nothing to lose by agreeing to go.

 

It might help to point out that you aren't asking her to make a binding committment to reconciliation just by going to hear the information. Giving her that kind of 'out' could take some of the pressure off.

[whichwayisup]

One thing...I understand you saying your kids need a mom and dad...But if the mom isn't capable of being a mom right now (your wife) because she's involved with a sexual preditor - I would let her go do her thing and suggest she get help.

 

You don't want her around the kids, I'm sorry for saying this, but she isn't a good influence on them if she can't see that the man she is with is F*cked in the head! A sicko! She is putting herself in danger, let alone your children, and you!!

[jonybgood]

yes I am in the process of writing a pretty carefully worded letter inviting her - one that lets her know just that there is no pressure to get back together just listen and maybe think about things.

 

As far as the preditor I do get the feeling over the past few days that he is going away. Don't know for sure but after I layed on the line about the children and who he actually is I think they are spending less time together. Don't know for sure. Today she told me she would like to spend more time here with the kids. I don't know what to make or not make of that.

[RecordProducer]

We didn't get to find out what exactly bothered her in your marriage, i.e. your faults. What do you think made her so unhappy? What did she complain about? How did she act when you lived together? What did you fight about? What objective problems did you have? Nobody here can tell you if things could be fixed or not unless we know the other side of the story. We saw you as an angel and her as the devil. She's done terrible things that most women would never do (left her small children and dates a sexual abuser in front of the kids), but we need to know your bad sides as well.

[jonybgood]

Yes I guess that is true - I am only asking in a general sense. No I am not the perfect angel. No one is. I am still working on what her problem is/was with us other than she chose to rely on someone else for moral support instead of her husband or a councelor. Then misconstrued the feelings she got from that relationship for love.

 

Where did I go wrong? I THINK (she has never confirmed this - as she wont even discuss our marriage) my main fault is that when we had a disagreement I felt I had to win. I had to argue a point until she agreed with me. Always had to have the last word. Wierd, but not to blame anything that is how I grew up and that worked in my family. Until now and alot of self reflection on our marriage do I realize how damaging that can be. Especially to a person who has had depresion and self esteem problems in the past. Most of the time rather than listen to her point of view I was too busy thinking of what to say next. So I was not a good listener. And I understand that no matter what he is he probably listened to her without talking or criticizing. A huge emotional boost for anyone. One that I should have realized before it was too late. But I never knew.

 

I have really taken a hard look at these things and feel that I have taken steps to stop being that way. It is not hard to do when you can identify a behavior that really is not that important to you and realize the damage it is doing to the person you love and care the most in the world. I would never hurt her intentionally.

 

I just need her to realize that I can change my behavior and these things are not worth ruining our life over because life is a learning process and we all grow every day.

[RecordProducer]

I feel for you JBG. Sometimes we just can't make people realize the truth or accept us no matter how much we try. This time again, you're trying to win the battle.

 

You know, I am attracted to successful men who are in charge, who can protect me, provide, and lead me in life. I am perfectly aware that there is another side of the medal. I haven't had that in my 3 previous relationships (the guys were schmucks), but I found a guy who is a typical male now. I haven't lived with him yet so I can't really say how I will accept the other side of the medal, but the point is: nothing in life is perfect and no one is perfect, as you said yourself.

 

You accept your wife along with all the issues in her heart and mind and she is supposed to accept you too and work on the marriage. That would be in an ideal world. But the world is not ideal so she acquired the line of least resistance and ran away. You on the other hand accept that the world is not ideal and you're willing to forgive her and bring her back home. Bravo for that! You're obviously more mature which justifies why you've always been in charge and not her.

 

I know this will sound odd to you, but how about hire a girl who will seduce her "perfect listener" and someone who will take pictures of them? She might realize that he is a scum (because he is) and think twice about who she abandoned. And it's not only her husband but also her children.

 

Do you think she would be jealous if you started dating other women?

 

In any case, she must be going through some terrible crisis to leave her own kids. I understand leaving a partner, but leaving kids just doesn't go into my head. As much as I am trying to figure her out, my brain blocks every possibility of comprehension of that deed. Is there any third party who might talk to her,like a parent or sibling or a good friend she trusts?

[jonybgood]

A very good and appreciated post Record Producer. As far as me hiring someone to seduce the OM (and I use the term M loosely) it does not matter to me what he is I will not play those types of games. Besides that is just not me. If she can't eventually figure out what he is now that she has all the information then I have been wrong all these years about her and no matter what the pain is now I am glad I am finding out. If on the other hand she does come to her senses then she will also realize what she lost. I just hope she does that before she kills all that I have for her.

 

And unfortunately there is no third party with the guts to tell her the way it is. She grew up in an emotion-less family. No affection what so ever. They do not take chances. Both her divorced parents tell her "they will support her" no matter what she does. No guts to say what is up with you. Her own mother abandoned her when she was like 2 or three then her father did it to her when she was 7. Then her mom abused her, her grandfather molested her, and her first husband beat her, and I cheated on her. (One night stand 11 years ago, wrong way to handle her screaming at me 24/7 and I know it now. Things got good for us though, or so I thought). I knew all this going in and I thought love was enough to get us through. And it did for 13 years. But now like the song says "she's got issues and I'm gonna pay"

 

So there you have it. Is it time to punt? Am I trying to win one more time? This time I am playing for my families life. I will tell you that I have not put any pressure on her at all. We are getting along and she is coming around more often to see the children. Just to see the children but that is OK. Maybe it will take the boys to show her what her new life is missing. I will use almost any excuse to hang on. Don't get me wrong, I am not desperate personally although I may sound it. I could find another woman if I wanted to, It is just not in my heart right now. I have a heart for her. And I know what the right thing for me, her, and our boys is.

[RecordProducer]

It's okay to be desperate; we're humans, not machines. People who have been through a lot in their early childhood tend to crush easily. They don't have the stamina necessary to cope with emotional pain. Maybe she has unresolved issues with her being molested too. Somehow I am trying to relate that fact with the fact that she hooked up with a molester. I was molested too by my step-father, but I could never even breathe the air around another molester, not to mention sleep with him. It seems that something very wrong is going on in her head. I am so sorry that children are involved in this whole mess. She has also done the same thing that her parents have done to her - abandoned them. She needs a good therapist to deal with her issues. Is there any possibility for you to persuade her to seek professional help? Doesn't she understand what she's done even remotely? Is she fully aware of what a piece of sh*t her cook is?

[jonybgood]

Well RP I thank you. I am taking a break before all this kills me. I am just letting go now. If she decides she would like to try again then great, I think we had a air clearing discussion two nights ago. We started out trying to fight, I refused to and took a walk around the block. When I got back we talked - seemed productive. She is spending more time here, maybe because of the boys, maybe that is an excuse to spend more time here I don't know.

 

Wrote her a letter inviting her with no pressure to go on a marriage builders weekend. If she goes great, if she doesn't great. I can't let myself care much anymore. I'm pretty apathetic right now.

 

She still claims (when we do talk about it) that cook is just a friend. But I don't know and really I don't care. I f I feel he will have any contact with my kids then that is where I draw the line. She is still convinced he didn't do it. Head in the sand not wanting to believe her "gut Feeling" led her the wrong way is the way I see it. But oh well life goes on. Just letting go of her. That's all I can do. Thank you.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by jonybgood

She still claims (when we do talk about it) that cook is just a friend. But I don't know and really I don't care.

 

The bottom line is that her relationship with "the cook" is interfering with the marriage. That's your trump card. If it's a problem for you....it's a problem for her. It needs to be dealt with accordingly.

 

You're discouraged. But that's okay. It's a rollercoaster ride of emotions. One day, you're up and full of energy. The next, you're down and not willing to fight for it.

 

The ball is in her court now. So, it's okay for you to relax, while you wait to see if she volleys it. Continue making your home a safe haven, a place of serenity in a sea of chaos.

 

You're doing all you can. There's nothing more you can do....when you're already doing your BEST.

 

 

 

 

(Man....that's ALOT of mixed metaphors all in one post! )

[jonybgood]

i never met a cliche i didn't like

[RecordProducer]

Friend or lover, it makes no difference. I date people I could also be friends with. It's alarming that she's trying to make her sad history repeat for her own children.

 

Do take a break from all, but make sure you spare the children the pain as much as you can. Things will be resolved in one way or another. Keep your head up high!

[jonybgood]

So the way I see it she has been having her cake and eating her ice cream too. I have been at her every beck and call. whenever she wants something she knows I will be there.

 

So I just left town with the boys on Friday afternoon. A late summer getaway to the beach. She had no idea where we were. She left like 10 messages on my machine, and voice mail. Where are you, I want to know. Why won't you let me see the boys ( I never said she couldn't see the boys), call me now.

 

I am tired of her calling all the shots. She needs to know how it is to wonder where someone is for a while. She was getting weird and emotional on the phone so I did call her late Saturday to tell her we were fine, just on a getaway.

 

She seemed her same old self, glad to hear from us (relieved). I hate playing games but I think it is time to stop supporting all her BS. If she wants to be disconnected completely then that is what she will get.

 

Is this the right thing to do? Will this make her think twice about what she is leaving behind? Still no answer about the weekend marriage builders thing. I don't know if she is considering it - I don't even know if she read the letter. I don't want to ask for fear it will put the wrong kind of pressure on her. and I am trying to pull away a bit so I don't want to seem anxious.

[RecordProducer]

Hi, JBG, how have you been?

 

I have an idea for you. I don't know if you're going to like it, but it might help you.

You know, the fact that she left the children might mean that she is coming back. Because if she weren't, she would have probably taken the kids with her. But then you might not take her back. This way she knows you "must" take her back, because you're a responsible and conscientious person and are aware that the children need their mother.

 

She also knows that no court would be sympathetic towards a mother who left her children just so she can fool around. She already knows that you want her back. So she is carefree and when she finishes having fun, she will come back to the secure refuge. As a person with a lot of trauma gone through her life, she craves for security. Sooner or later she will realize that life without you and the children is not fun and that the cook is not her friend.

 

So, in my opinion, what you need to do is change her solid position. She is so certain that she's standing on a safe ground that she thinks she can even afford standing on one foot. Well shake the ground for her. She should understand that she can lose you all.

 

Don't be depressed in front of her. Show her that you're happy without her. Buy new clothes and shoes, grow your beard (or shave it), change your glasses,... whatever.. act like a single guy again. Go on dating sites and start dating other women. When she comes to see the kids, let her see a glass with a lip stick on it or "forgotten" earrings or some female accessory. If she sees that, she will figure out that you might fall in love and forget about her.

 

How are the children taking her absence? Poor kids, I feel so sorry for them. I imagine my two 7-year old twin boys and it's breaking my heart to think of your babies being abandoned by their mother. Do they ask any questions? What do you tell them?

[jonybgood]

Hey RP it was great to hear from you again. - I think we are on the same page although I am very uncomfortable about dating other woman. I do think that she has to realize that all the control is going out of her life. That everything she thinks is secure is maybe not quite so secure after all. That is why I just disappeared for a couple of days. Oh by the way she called me tonite "just to make sure we got home safely." Hmmmm. She has not done that in a long time.

 

I really do think the woman thing would work, and what do I have to lose? Nothing I haven't already lost. but I don't want to put someone else's feelings at risk either (after all, I am quite the catch LOL).

 

I wonder if just creating the illusion of someone else (the wine glass idea) or other things might do the trick. I know what a thing the imagination can be.

 

As far as the children are concerned, I just tell them the truth. Mommy felt she could no longer live with Daddy, I don't know why, but right now it is just us guys. It has nothing to do with you. We all will have bad days but anytime you boys want to talk or ask questions I will do my best.

 

They have asked her to come back but she just tell them no. They tell me she gets upset when they ask her to come home. I think there may be some guilt there too on her part. I would feel very guilty, although at this point in my life I can never see myself leaving them.

 

Oh and by the way we had a great weekend, excellent time - the boys and I really had fun, we needed it.

[RecordProducer]

I am glad you had fun with your boys. I am sorry they have to go through this, it must be very painful and I as a mother can perfectly imagine how they must feel.

 

Hope you're doing better. If you're a good catch then just date other women. There is nothing wrong in dating and going out. You don't have to sleep with them unless you feel that somebody might be realtionship material. Has your wife brought divorce as an option yet?

[jonybgood]

yeah I know it is ok to date a little, but it is just weird. I have been flirting a little though just to give myself a shot in the arm. You know to show I still have it. But I am not going to do actually date until I am ready. And I really cant see myself in a physical relationship right now with anyone except my wife. I know that eventually I will have to make the leap but I also know that I will know when the right time is.

 

No there has been no talk of divorce yet. I know that she cannot afford a lawyer so that may be what she is waiting for. she has not given me any indication about the marriage builders weekend. I don't even know if she read the letter I gave her inviting her. should I bring the letter up or just wait and see if she brings it up? I don't want to make her feel pressured or anything.

 

I am getting alot of mixed signals. For instance, when we talk it is very nice, no fighting or arguing or anything negative. She told me tonite that deep down she is glad that she knows I am there for her. But then if I even start to make us sound even subtly a couple she backs off very quickly and reafirms that things are done between us. It is strange. She uses the kids as an excuse to come here and visit us a lot. Maybe the kids really are the only reason and not an excuse? Who knows?

[Blackfrost]

The only advice I could give you in a situation like this, is what I know I would do if I were going through this as well: let her go until she decides what she wants - or you decide that it is done. Stop letting her drive you nuts with phones calls - ignore them. You need to take care of YOU and YOUR boys FIRST. She's the one who abandoned the family. Show your boys that you love them and are there for them, regardless of how horribly chaotic and irresponsible their mother is. Your boys need to feel as though someone will stand by them and love them - they're children - they need security from you more then ever now. Take care of yourselves. Let your wife work out the problems she has created for herself. She can't have her cake and eat it too - not if she's going to treat all of you with such disrespect. Be strong, and hug your boys as often as possible.

[RecordProducer]

JBG, now I am going to give you the "I told you so!"

She is one step further to coming back if she says it's good to know that you're there for her. Still many steps away since she becomes defensive when she senses that you want her back.

 

Show her that you don't want her back. And she will get scared that she will lose you and change her song right away. Trust me on this! You must gradually let her know that you're losing interest in her and eventually you should act as if you don't care a thing about her. You have to be a little cocky with her now.

 

That will make her panic as she will no longer have the security of two safe places like now. She will have one cold place left and one warm place lost. She will regret what she did and beg you to take her back. We'll come to that point later and I will give you my thoughts by ear.

 

Not only that you shouldn't bring the invitation, but you should excuse yourself for inviting her as you changed your mind - you're going on a picnic with a friend.

 

She definitely comes to see the children and whether she cares about you I don't know. I wouldn't count on it being merely an excuse to see you. They are her children after all. She is probably making a path for her to come back by talking nicely to you. As guilty as she is, if her final decision was to divorce you, she would be mean and angry, because she would have to blame you for the divorce.

 

However the money is an excuse for not divorcing you. If she wanted a divorce she would have told you that.

[jonybgood]

Well I did bring up the weekend - unfortunatly before I read your great idea RP. But I am still using the time and money to actually go on a trip with a friend.

 

She was over the other night. she wanted to see the boys and we had been getting along quite well so I thought I would test the waters so I asked her if she wanted to stay for dinner. I made a simple but real nice meal. Wine and whole thing(I am a gourmet cook - used to be a profesion now only a hobby).

 

After dinner we had some more wine and chatted. She told me she was happy we could get along, and I told her that even though we are going through this she is my best friend. Then she kind of opened up to me and told me that the reason she left the children with me is because she didn't want to take anything else from me. I lost both my parents recently. That she wasn't thinking about herself. Which is BS because if she wasn't thinking about herself then she would have talked to me in the begining and tried to work things out, but I didn't say anything. Then she told me she was happy single, living on her own and just having a few friends around. Who wouldn't be? No real responsibility!!! Before she left is when I brought up the weekend and she told me she read the letter but I should ahave known she wasn't going anywhere with me. Man that hurt.

 

So yester day I wrote her a letter telling her that when she left she wasn't thinking of me or anyone else. She was thinking of herself first. Period. I also told her that when I got married I planned on staying married for life, That leaving was not an option, but that I couldn't force her to stay and that I am moving on with my life and if she wants to ever talk about being my wife again then I may be availabe but I can make no promises. I wished her good luck, told her I would pray that God leads her where he wants her to be and that the boys and I will miss her. I also told her that I forgive her for what she has put us through.

 

This is the hard part. Not being there when she needs us. I am kind of starting semi-no contact. Can't do real no contact because I won't use the children as pawns and she is seeming to take more interest in them. I am takeing all control of us out of her hands and am at least creating the illusion of maybe someone else.

 

Don't know if it is the right thing to do but I cannot keep letting her take me for granted. I have to show her hard now what she is losing. I have to hit her in the face with it. Maybe it is time for her to hit rock bottom. I think no matter what she says on the outside on the inside there are still doubts, but as long as I am giving her full access and control whenever she wants those feelings of "this is the right thing to do" are reinforced for her. Any thoughts?

[Ladyjane14]

Don't know if it is the right thing to do but I cannot keep letting her take me for granted. I have to show her hard now what she is losing.

 

It's not easy, when you're mired in controversy to choose the best path. In terms of marriage-building....I think you are doing the right thing.

 

When you continue to fulfill a wayward spouse's emotional needs, past the point where they are ponying-up any attempt at responsibility.....you're not giving them incentive to deviate from their current course. What's worse, you're not giving them the honest view of the divorce scenario.

 

You want them to have a "peek through the window", and to be able to accurately weigh the consequences of their choices. Continuing to cater to her emotional needs by being her "best friend" is unlikely to be the most illustrative representation of what her relationship will be in the future as your EX-wife. Unless you really do intend to continue on as her best friend.....while she goes her merry way.

 

You don't have to be an a*hole. You don't want to make the situation irredeemably adversarial. But you do need to give her an accurate illustration.

 

Just my opinion....but I do think that you're doing the right thing.

[RecordProducer]

I think you put it well in your last paragraph, you were at her disposal so far and that has to change. My advice is still what I wrote to you in my last post.

It is BS that she was thinking of you. She found an excuse for what she did. And given that she was abandoned by her own parents, it's encoded in her mind that it's acceptable behavior. Just like children immitate their parents' habits, language expressions, etc., she accepted the worst from her parents.

 

And she is probably seeing this guy because she knew you wouldn't let the kids be around him, i.e. with her. So she drew a line that is very close to "zero responsibility." We are not obligated to anything in our lives, but we have obligations towards our children.

 

I think the quasi-no-contact is a good idea. Where does she live? She works in a restaurant, right? Can she support herself? Perhaps you could mention the word "divorce" soon just to scare her. It really is a tough situation.

 

If this doesn't work, maybe you should suggest that she comes back to the house for the kids and the two of you would be just room mates. Of course, it won't be like that, but just to "trick" her to come back. Then you might convince her to go to MC and work on your marriage. But I would start with the first idea if I were you. I feel for you and the kids. And I am so sorry you lost both your parents recently.

 

P.S. I agree with LadyJane and Blackfrost.

[jonybgood]

No Ladyjane I don't plan on being there forever for her if she becomes an EX-wife, but at the same time we do have and have always had a connection. We were best friends before we got together and that seems kind of weird now. We even kind of grew up together. Our families knew each other well. there was never a Love connection until way later after we had both gone our own ways after high school. Then we both ended up working at the same place and after we started hanging out a lot together then we started dating. It was a natural proggresion. So it is strange not to be her friend, but at this point we have grown beyond the friend stage I guess and we have to move to the you need to be treated as a wayward spouse stage. How do I do that without being a jerk? I have to figure that one out I guess. I will just be apathetic toward anything she says, not let her show up whenever she wants and set the boundries. If I have to verbally let her know that things are changing then I will do it matter of factly with no emotion or accusations whatsoever. This is what she wants, this will be single life. There is no control over when and where she can see her children Not using them against her, just letting her know that we are building our own life without her. Being busy most of the time. I think that is all I can do.

 

Moving in as a room-mate RP is not an option. I don't think she would do it. Yes she can support herself right now because she has limited expenses. A small apartment and nothing major outgoing. We will see as life goes on though. Sometimes we tend to think we are entiltled to certain things like cable tv, cell phones, internet service, etc. I think these things will catch up to her financially and I don't think next time she asks for money I will be there with it. Also remember she has her 16 year old son from her first marriage living with her, I KNOW he can get expensive as I have supported him unconditionally since he was three. We will see how this all plays out. Only time will tell.