Sex in Marriage - How do you compromise?

[Mr. Lucky]

OK so we have a woman with RA, now RA very often affects the small joints of the hands and the wrists, elbows and, shoulders so whilst it may be possible, a hand job may not be possible without a lot of pain.

Also jaw pain and involvement of the TMJs is also very common so a BJ may also not be possible.

 

Sex tends to involve fairly prolonged repetitive movements and for someone whose joints are swollen and painful, then repetitive movements can be something to be avoided.

Whilst it is easy for us to minimise her problems, I doubt in reality that many of us would be indulging in sex if it was literally agony, or stirred up pain for days to come, or we were too exhausted to even contemplate it

WE would be avoiding it too, despite any claims to the contrary.

 

Here's the OP's description of her energy and activity level:

 

This is actually pretty typical, she always feels too bad for sex but is fine enough to do a hundred other things. I get that the RA and the medications drag her down but when it is something she really wants to do miraculously she feels o.k. to do it, unless its sex with me then all of the sudden she feels like **** and can't possibly go to bed with me right now.

 

As always, somewhere in the middle there's an answer for a motivated and connected partner. And I'd guess to the OP, the effort is as important - if not more so - than the results...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Els]

Lack of sex is rarely just about lack of sex. In most of the cases we hear about, there are so many contributing factors, so many larger issues that culminated in this.

 

In the OP's case, things might be a bit different, but it sounds like his wife is struggling to support the family on a high stress job despite being very ill. I think it's reasonable to expect a person in such a situation to not desire sex very much. I wonder if there was anything that could be done to help with the job situation or reduce the stress on her though. Perhaps that may lead to a revival in their sex lives and relationship in general.

Edited December 27, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic ~T

[ICEMAN69]

She is three years away from sixty.

 

You are eleven years away from sixty.

 

You cannot un-marry her now or un-have a child

with her.

 

When there is a large age gap number the odds

are high that sooner then later that sexual desire

will not match up.

 

Yeah, I'm not buying that analysis. We've all read here at L/S numerous times about wives whose libido sucks and those are often women who are in their 20s and 30s, the same age as their complaining husbands. In the meantime we've also read about women who are in their 50s and 60s who have high libidos unmatched by their husbands, so the "age gap" theory ain't working with this guy's problem.

[ICEMAN69]

Carhill -

 

We actually are still relatively affectionate with each other, she still kisses me when she comes home from work everyday and likes to cuddle with me on the couch when we watch T.V. She likes to hold hands in public when we go for walks so all that kind of thing is still there. Heck she will even still flirt with me quite often but that can be a two edged sword, back in the day the flirting led at least half the time to something more, now it generally doesn't mean anything. Sometimes it ticks me off that she will flirt with me and get my hopes up and then come bedtime just come in and roll over and go right to sleep.

 

I'm like - "Hey weren't you just flashing your breasts at me while I was brushing my teeth and talking about how much I must like them and then - nothing?"

 

That just comes off as cruel to me. Are you telling me she doesn't know that gets you hopeful for something more at bedtime?

[ICEMAN69]

Okay TexasRob, here's my two cents. Let me say up front that I relate to your situation in many ways. My wife doesn't prohibit me from wanting sex more than she does, but she doesn't initiate so I can relate to your quandary about feeling wanted or needed. I would say her sexual desire is about the same as your wife. She'd maybe go 2X a month whereas I could go 2X a day. So we seem to meet around 2X a week on average which isn't nearly enough for me, but clearly I'm not being "cut off" as you seem to be.

 

I sometimes roll my eyes at those who post their support for people like your wife because I'm doing simple equations in my mind. For instance, let's say the average sex act takes 30 minutes, give or take. That means there are 48 slices of 30 minute periods in a full day. In other words, if your wife were to engage in sex with you three times a week, it's going to be roughly 90 minutes of her time over the course of a full week. I'm sorry, but these days watching a commercial laden movie is in excess of two hours! Does she find time to do that?

 

Marriage is about giving. Marriage is about pleasing your spouse. So if you as her husband are going out of your way to please your spouse in ways other than sex, is it asking so much for her to work with you in that area? Even if the excitement of sex isn't quite there for your wife, I'd like to believe that she's thinking about the fact that it's something that you really crave and strive to share with her often. Isn't that what marriage is about?

 

You're not asking her (arthritis and all) to go work on some labor intensive assembly line for 12 hours a day! It's sex! You're asking her to engage in something that's pleasurable and should be a sincere bonding moment for her as well as you.

 

People posting here get all worked up about "busy schedules" and "tough jobs" and a host of other excuses. You know what? Our ancestors 3-4 generations back had tough lives. We don't even know what the term means today. Most of our ancestors had laborious jobs and oftentimes had to worry about putting food on their tables and a roof over their heads. They had REAL things to worry about. So when I hear about the "tough day at the office" I just have to smirk. And trust me, I've had "tough days at the office" (to use that same ridiculous formula) and it didn't affect my libido or my desire for my wife when I got home.

 

And my other observation is this. You in your 50s and her in her 60s is irrelevant. People's libidos are different and this happens when they're in their 20s or their 70s. You and your wife aren't that far apart so I see that as a red herring rather than a reasonable reason. There are thousands of women out there with off the charts libidos in their 50s and 60s.

 

Now, I say all of this assuming that your wife's arthritis isn't disabling based on the fact that she's still working and seems to live an otherwise normal life. I have some arthritis and know several people who do. It's uncomfortable at times, but quite manageable. Aside from the real severe cases where it in indeed disabling, one can work through it from day-to-day.

 

Here's the bottom line I think. Sit down with her and ask her very sincerely how she'd feel about you finding a surrogate sex partner outside the marriage. Not someone to love romantically, but someone who you might term a F### Buddy. Assure her that your marriage would remain great otherwise and you'd remain entirely committed to her in all other ways. You can say it was suggested to you given you and your wife's unmatched sexual interest. And you'd be telling the truth because I'm suggesting this to you.

 

Her response will tell you what you need to know. If she's offended that you'd even bring up such a scenario then the obvious question becomes, okay, so if that idea bothers you so much, why don't you work with me to better the frequency of intimacy between you and I? Because reading your posting, I get the idea that your wife is not all that interested in what your needs are at this point.

 

If her response is, "Okay, if that's something you need go for it." Well, in that case, I guess you're going to know all that you need to know about where your wife is about on the subject.

 

And before anyone scolds me for "giving a spouse ultimatums" that's not what I'm suggesting TexasRob does here. I'm suggesting he ask the question to get a response which hopefully gauges where his wife is really at with intimacy in their marriage.

 

P.S. Since you're in Texas make sure there are no loaded weapons nearby when you ask her the above question.

Edited January 5, 2018 by ICEMAN69

[Popsicle]

How does your wife feel about all the porn watching you do?

[elaine567]

P.S. Since you're in Texas make sure there are no loaded weapons nearby when you ask her the above question.

 

Exactly.

Few married women who are committed to their marriage and believe in monogamy would accept another women anywhere near their marriage and the mere suggestion of such a solution may indeed kill his marriage stone dead.

 

It is a very risky strategy IMO.

 

Yes, there will be many on here who are of a "progressive" persuasion who would agree that opening up the marriage is the best thing for him to do, but they will not have to pick up the pieces of his marriage after he mentions it, nor will they have to cope with a wife who may fully embrace it.

As has been said here a lot, open marriages work well for any woman looking for an "extra" man, for men, not so good.

Open marriages tend to work better if both are on board, "forced" open marriages do not tend to work well at all.

 

If she is indeed committed, she is going to be deeply hurt by the suggestion. She already thinks she is repulsive and a fat cow, so "Yes I am going to get sex from other women instead" is going to go down like a lead balloon.

 

OR She is likely either going to see it as emotional blackmail which will not go down well and she may even stop his 2 monthly sex or any semblance of a proper marriage from there on in, OR she is going to see it as the end of their marriage. Divorce beckons.

 

Many see monogamy as a main pillar and with no monogamy there is no marriage.

Marriage for many women is about love and emotional bonding it is not just about sex and the fact he wants to "betray" her to go sleep with other women would be enough for some women to shut off that emotional bond completely.

End of marriage.

 

As she is the main breadwinner here, she doesn't actually need the OP, so if he wants to go see other women then "Fine the marriage is done", may be her response to that suggestion.

 

As the OP has already said he does not want to leave his marriage, he just wants more sex, he needs to be careful.

 

I guess the only way she would probably support it, is if she already has an OM or has someone else in mind, or she just doesn't care as she is essentially done with him anyway.

 

Unless a person is of a completely non jealous persuasion, or doesn't care, then sitting at home whilst a spouse F***s another is not going to be good for anyone's well being and mental health.

[SummerDreams]

In my opinion, If a wife hates sex that much as the OP's wife seems to do, if someone would guarantee her her H would never fall in love with the other woman and leave his wife, she would consider accepting his offer of an open marriage. Why not? Sex means nothing for her either way. She bonds with her husband in other ways.

[elaine567]

In my opinion, If a wife hates sex that much as the OP's wife seems to do, if someone would guarantee her her H would never fall in love with the other woman and leave his wife, she would consider accepting his offer of an open marriage. Why not? Sex means nothing for her either way. She bonds with her husband in other ways.

 

It doesn't tend to work like that though.

Two's company, three's a crowd.

There are no guarantees either.

As soon as another person enters a marriage, it takes something away from that marriage, even if the intention is not to do so.

It is not possible just to contract out sex, feelings and emotions get involved and jealousy is a very powerful emotion.

It is also a territory thing, she cannot allow another woman to get that close to her husband, she would be mad to let that happen..

[road]

Yeah, I'm not buying that analysis. We've all read here at L/S numerous times about wives whose libido sucks and those are often women who are in their 20s and 30s, the same age as their complaining husbands. In the meantime we've also read about women who are in their 50s and 60s who have high libidos unmatched by their husbands, so the "age gap" theory ain't working with this guy's problem.

 

You are citing specific instances.

 

I have stated in general, meaning usually, most times.

As people age they slow down. She is slowing down. The

problem is the age spread. His bio clock is not ready to

slow down at the rate where her age is.

[ICEMAN69]

Exactly.

Few married women who are committed to their marriage and believe in monogamy would accept another women anywhere near their marriage and the mere suggestion of such a solution may indeed kill his marriage stone dead.

 

As is the case with so many of the marriage conflicts you read at L/S the phrase about "having your cake and eat it too" comes to mind here. You can't on one hand say that you value your marriage and your spouses feelings and at the same time callously omit a vital component of the glue or fabric that helps to make it a marriage (sex). Particularly when at the same time you demand of your spouse that they remain committed to that same marriage minus regular healthy physical bonding and intimacy.

 

By the way, just so we're all clear, I wasn't necessarily suggesting that TexasRob actually go find himself a F/B as much as I thought the question posed to his wife and her response to the question would help him to gain insights into what his next step should be (if any).

[ICEMAN69]

You are citing specific instances.

 

I have stated in general, meaning usually, most times.

As people age they slow down. She is slowing down. The

problem is the age spread. His bio clock is not ready to

slow down at the rate where her age is.

 

I guess what I'm suggesting is that while it could be age related, it may simply be that she just discounts sex as something of importance after that many years together, and she's moved on. Let's be honest. How many stories have we read here posted by both men and women about being newly married, often young (20s or 30s) and it's smoking hot sex for a couple years followed by their spouse saying, "yeah, I don't really need sex anymore"? So I'm merely suggesting it could be a value decision by OPs wife that the whole sex/intimacy thing has moved almost to the bottom of her list of things she likes to do now. It may be age related, but it also may be that she simply doesn't value sex any longer as a need/want/desire and it has nothing to do with age or an "age gap."

[SummerDreams]

It doesn't tend to work like that though.

Two's company, three's a crowd.

There are no guarantees either.

As soon as another person enters a marriage, it takes something away from that marriage, even if the intention is not to do so.

It is not possible just to contract out sex, feelings and emotions get involved and jealousy is a very powerful emotion.

It is also a territory thing, she cannot allow another woman to get that close to her husband, she would be mad to let that happen..

 

That's why I said "if there's a guarantee feelings won't get involved".

But I'm sure there are many people in the world who choose to have sex without any feelings involved ever. Also prostitutes have no feelings and their clients have no feelings for them whatsoever. So it can happen.

A territory thing can be called when the wife actually wants to have sex with her husband. If she doesn't, I don't see what territory she is afraid to lose.

[Trail Blazer]

How does your wife feel about all the porn watching you do?

 

Why does she even get to feel anything? If she or any other wife deprives their high drive husband of sex, what else would you expect?

[elaine567]

A territory thing can be called when the wife actually wants to have sex with her husband. If she doesn't, I don't see what territory she is afraid to lose.

 

There is more to "territory" than just sex, surely?

[elaine567]

I guess what I'm suggesting is that while it could be age related, it may simply be that she just discounts sex as something of importance after that many years together, and she's moved on. Let's be honest. How many stories have we read here posted by both men and women about being newly married, often young (20s or 30s) and it's smoking hot sex for a couple years followed by their spouse saying, "yeah, I don't really need sex anymore"? So I'm merely suggesting it could be a value decision by OPs wife that the whole sex/intimacy thing has moved almost to the bottom of her list of things she likes to do now. It may be age related, but it also may be that she simply doesn't value sex any longer as a need/want/desire and it has nothing to do with age or an "age gap."

OK but if you read the thread this woman has multiple things going on in her life and any one of them could reasonably explain why sex is low priority for her and that is not even going into their relationship and how she feels about the OP.

[SummerDreams]

There is more to "territory" than just sex, surely?

 

I exclude the spiritual part of territory and leave only the physical part.

[wmacbride]

Many here are commenting about the situation, and no matter which side of the fence they sit on, it seems that sex is coming down to "work", a "chore", "if she can watch a movie, she can do this too"...

 

Um, if sex has been relegated to a chore by either spouse, whether it's the one who isn't as interested or the one who is and is of the mindset " just do it for me, and who cares how you feel", it's a pretty sad state of affairs, and I can't help but wonder if that is the root of the problem.

 

When sex becomes just another item on the list of tasks that need to be done in the run of the day, then it's no different than doing the laundry, washing the dishes or sweeping the floor. When one gets tired, isn't feeling well, has a lot of energy invested in their career, child raising or what have you, like any other chore, it can get left in the dust.

 

That's just sad. Resentment will build up on both sides.

 

One more thing ( and I know that this is going to go over like a lead balloon, and it's not directed at the op personally) if sex is is enjoyable for someone, then why aren't they more interested? Could it be it's not as great for them as their spouse believes? If it's not, then there is a conversation that needs to be had, tough for the ego as it may be.

[wmacbride]

I'm going to put this out there, and I expect it will not be taken well, but I do think it might help.

 

I was talking with some fronds online ( We live far away from each other) about pretty much this subject some time ago. One of the women was saying her husband was very much like you, and she was upset.

 

We commented, and after some discussion, we were able to figure out the issue.

 

Somehow, she had gotten the message that men view sex as a form of "recreation" ( sorry, but I don't know how better to put it) and her husband was just seeing it that way. She had somehow gotten the idea that it wasn't an expression of affection or love, it was just him being all wound up.

 

I'm not sure where that idea came from. I think part of it could be how prominent sex is in at least western culture ( sex sells, I guess). In her mind, that had somehow stripped any of the meaning it should have.

 

We were finally able to convince her to talk to her husband about it. From what she says, they had a long talk, and he explained to her that, to him, it was the best way he could show her how much he loves and adores her.

 

Op, is it possible that, your wife's mind, something similar may have happened? She knows you want to have sex with her , but doe she understand why? That it's not just that you enjoy it, it's because you love her so much and want to be as close to her as you can? Does she understand that this is how you show her love? Ask her how she shows you love and affection, and how would she feel if you began to reject those actions?

 

To give her credit, at least she was open to talking to you. That's a good start. Keep it up.

 

Actually, reading some of the responses to this thread, I am beginning to see where this idea may have come from for her. That's just so sad.

[elaine567]

By the way, just so we're all clear, I wasn't necessarily suggesting that TexasRob actually go find himself a F/B as much as I thought the question posed to his wife and her response to the question would help him to gain insights into what his next step should be (if any).

 

I got that "the question" is a form of a test, but once a spouse has said that they want to have sex outside of the marriage, that is not something that can ever be unsaid.

[Popsicle]

Why does she even get to feel anything? If she or any other wife deprives their high drive husband of sex, what else would you expect?

I asked him. Maybe the excessive porn watching turns her off and makes her not want to have sex with him. I know it would me.

[Trail Blazer]

I asked him. Maybe the excessive porn watching turns her off and makes her not want to have sex with him. I know it would me.

 

You asked him in a public forum where anyone can respond. So, you don't think the fact he looks at porn is symptomatic of his sexless marriage? Or are you now trying to conflate the two issues, implying that he's at fault for her lack of desire?

 

We all know why she has a lack of desire. Unless the OP is withholding any other information then it's her RA which is the main factor. If there's a lack of emotional connection due to resentment of the OP's side, that may be a contributing factor.

 

But porn? Women who don't have sex with their husbands have no right to judge them based on looking at porn. Unless the porn itself is particularly graphic/disturbing/illegal, then there is nothing wrong, in fact it's normal, to use it as a mechanism for release.

[carhill]

OP, if you're still reading, here's a very lengthy past discussion on a sexless/low sex marriage that became my gold standard for describing and working the issue in detail. See what you think. I believe some sort of physical pain in the spouse was a factor in that M as well:

 

www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/201696-if-you-want-sex-then-you-will-have-get-somewhere-else

[elaine567]

You asked him in a public forum where anyone can respond. So, you don't think the fact he looks at porn is symptomatic of his sexless marriage? Or are you now trying to conflate the two issues, implying that he's at fault for her lack of desire?

 

But porn? Women who don't have sex with their husbands have no right to judge them based on looking at porn. Unless the porn itself is particularly graphic/disturbing/illegal, then there is nothing wrong, in fact it's normal, to use it as a mechanism for release.

 

You are looking at this from a male perspective.

Popsicle is correct, porn watching by men can be huge turn off for women, surely you knew that?

It is not necessarily about judgement per se, it is just a fact of life.

[central]

Popsicle is correct, porn watching by men can be huge turn off for women, surely you knew that?

 

If my wife consistently turned me down for sex, I'd probably turn to porn for relief. If she doesn't like that, then she shouldn't turn me down - the porn would be a direct consequence of rejection. Eventually, I'd be tired of both porn and being turned down, and would divorce her and find someone compatible, where I would't need to turn to porn (or, for some people, cheating).