Woggle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I don't believe in the red pill crap but so called nice guys tend to have no self respect and nobody is attracted to somebody with no self respect. This just shows young men and boys really need older men who can give them guidance and show them the ropes. We either give men the option of being nice guys with no self respect or embracing what is considered to be toxic masculinity and neither one is healthy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I don't believe in the red pill crap but so called nice guys tend to have no self respect and nobody is attracted to somebody with no self respect. This just shows young men and boys really need older men who can give them guidance and show them the ropes. We either give men the option of being nice guys with no self respect or embracing what is considered to be toxic masculinity and neither one is healthy. In all seriousness.... aside from the women who've given up on men, I also know a heap a great married men who have really got the whole thing sorted out. They do teach their sons. And the sons grow into men who make both parents proud and who in turn teach their own sons. It's not just for fun that we warn women to get away from men who are bad role models. The outcome for their own sons very much depends on who their fathers are. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
nospam99 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 living a lonely existence with seven cats is not a choice alpha, sometimes you just crack me up ... I'm picturing those cats But seriously, it IS a choice. I just haven't met that woman yet ... SEVEN LOL - that's a lot of litter and cat food Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 In all seriousness.... aside from the women who've given up on men, I also know a heap a great married men who have really got the whole thing sorted out. They do teach their sons. And the sons grow into men who make both parents proud and who in turn teach their own sons. It's not just for fun that we warn women to get away from men who are bad role models. The outcome for their own sons very much depends on who their fathers are. More likely some of the women who have given up on men think that the answer to the gender problems is browbeating all the masculinity out of their sons so when their sons go out into the world they are chewed up and spit out. I have seen it happen. These young men then get frustrated and end up red pillers who hate women. Women who put whatever issues they have with men on their son's shoulders are doing a great disservice to their sons. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 More likely some of the women who have given up on men think that the answer to the gender problems is browbeating all the masculinity out of their sons so when their sons go out into the world they are chewed up and spit out. I have seen it happen. These young men then get frustrated and end up red pillers who hate women. Women who put whatever issues they have with men on their son's shoulders are doing a great disservice to their sons. Thankful to not know any men in real life who are as you've described. Mind you, except for a couple of alcoholics, I also don't know any men who women won't date. Surrounded by positive masculinity here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 Alphamale: Have you been reading The Red Pill--Sexual Strategy? Your viewpoints are "red-pilled", and I don't disagree with them at all, but just wondering if you are trying to "red-pill" the audience.....if so, it might be a tough crowd no, I've never hear of red-pilled Link to post Share on other sites
jjgitties Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) It boils down to a cost benefit analysis. Many single older women have come out of LTRs or marriages and some can struggle to see what a man brings to their life. Many are OK financially, many are not natural born housekeepers, nursemaids or carers, many are not keen on the traditional role, so the addition of an older man will probably just add additional work for her to do and drama and stress to her life, so many having weighed up the costs and benefits are happier just to pass. It needs someone really special to tip the scales and as there are usually not many of them around she is fine being single. . I can totally relate and understand that. I don't blame them and if I were in their shoes I would do the.same. actively avoid LTRs and seek out occasional FWBs. But the financial theory does not add up. One of the big benefits of LTR and marriage is the doubling of income and spending power in the household. Unless these women are high income bracket, in which case they are a minority. But even then, if she's high income, she will reap benefits because she will hook up with another high income earner and they double their spending power in the high income world. Edited January 7, 2018 by jjgitties 1 Link to post Share on other sites
h57zf Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I think "nice guys" is being a bit generic. I have a certain set of values that I try and live by. I try to act within certain boundaries, but it doesn't mean I have to be a doormat. Sometimes I'm just being cautious or trying to figure someone out. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I can totally relate and understand that. I don't blame them and if I were in their shoes I would do the.same. actively avoid LTRs and seek out occasional FWBs. But the financial theory does not add up. One of the big benefits of LTR and marriage is the doubling of income and spending power in the household. Unless these women are high income bracket, in which case they are a minority. But even then, if she's high income, she will reap benefits because she will hook up with another high income earner and they double their spending power in the high income world. I get the doubling up of income, but not everyone is money driven. Again it all comes down to cost benefit. "Can I live in my small apartment with no man to share costs but I can do what I want, whenever I want to do it, or would I rather "put up with" any old man and have more spending power?" Some will choose the former, some the latter. But it is often not so cut and dried, so extreme, she may be living a perfectly good life with a nice house, and a man may not actually add that much to it as far as she is concerned. Not everyone dreams of a luxury yacht in the Caribbean. I think most women who are "desperate financially" will always go down "the man" route, but those who are picker, who can take men or leave them, who are holding out for "a good one" are most likely happy financially, (whatever their particular financial status may be), they do not feel they NEED a man to pick up the tabs. And I also think some women who are reasonably well off financially, are in no mood to hand it all over to any old man either no matter how "nice" he may be, another reason for pickiness. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The "nice guy" label when it is true and a man is an all round nice guy then he will have no trouble getting a woman. Woman will flock to him as they recognise his value. They will see him as an excellent role model for their children and they will bask in the honesty, the care, the love and the attention he doles out to everyone. BUT the "nice guy" label can be applied to just about any old guy who is struggling to get a woman. "What is he like?" she asks and "He is a nice guy" is the reply, because frankly there is not lot to say about him that is positive. I am not saying he is always nasty, only that he may be socially awkward, immature, painfully shy, feckless, boring, arrogant, self absorbed, depressed, a tad dishonest, etc. all the "good things" that women find so resistible, or he may even be narcissistic, sexist or misogynistic... So "nice" is used, as it is a "nice", polite, non confrontational and bland word, and it avoids mentioning the "bad bits". She is then left to fill in the blanks for herself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The problem is in words. Up to standards is just a way of covering up that I will not compromise, I will hold out for Mr Perfect. While living in self denial that they do not bring enough to the table to get a Mr Perfect. Just like some men fail to recognise that they don't bring enough to the table to attract Ms Bombshell? And the not/non nice guys aka jerks bad boys are not losing out because there are plenty of women putting out for them. Though the nice guy's are still getting passed over. except this Is Not True. This is a story some people cling to because they want to believe that the world is tilted against them, that they DESERVE MORE and are being treated unfairly. There are non-nice people who get dates, and non-nice people who don't. There are nice people who get dates, and nice people who don't. It's not about being nice or not. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
somanymistakes Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Another example from real people I know: Guy threw a FIT when his girlfriend left him for another man. Endless amounts of "i'm so nice why don't women appreciate me, why do they just go for jerks who will abuse them and dump them" Ten years later his ex is still with that other guy, married, has a kid. The "nice guy" has had five different girlfriends in the same time period. So is he really being 'passed over'? He gets plenty of girls. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jjgitties Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I get the doubling up of income, but not everyone is money driven. Again it all comes down to cost benefit. "Can I live in my small apartment with no man to share costs but I can do what I want, whenever I want to do it, or would I rather "put up with" any old man and have more spending power?" Some will choose the former, some the latter. But it is often not so cut and dried, so extreme, she may be living a perfectly good life with a nice house, and a man may not actually add that much to it as far as she is concerned. Not everyone dreams of a luxury yacht in the Caribbean. I think most women who are "desperate financially" will always go down "the man" route, but those who are picker, who can take men or leave them, who are holding out for "a good one" are most likely happy financially, (whatever their particular financial status may be), they do not feel they NEED a man to pick up the tabs. And I also think some women who are reasonably well off financially, are in no mood to hand it all over to any old man either no matter how "nice" he may be, another reason for pickiness. It's not really about having a yacht and being filthy rich. One of the hidden (though IMO they are not really hidden but are quite obvious) is the economics benefits of marriage for individuals. There is an entire field of study devoted to it but you really don't need to waste your time reading Economists boring papers on it -- its pretty common sense stuff. Marriage increases your income and spending power (provided both parties are employed and a certain social status). In some cases I also believe it does push people up the social ladder. For example, if I never for married, I would most probably be still living and renting a dinky apartment on Queen or College street. As I mentioned (and I think I might have touched on it in another post) class plays a big part in chosing mates. A fancy pants lawyer or doctor is going to be hard pressed to enter into marriage with someone who does not fall into their social class -- includes family and education background. That McDonalds employee better be looking like a movie star if that lawyer is gonna marry her -- and if she does have movie star looks, odds are, she ain't stupid and she already got herself a lawyer or doctor and is pouncing around the city in a brand new $100,000 car getting her hair and nails done every day. [1] [1] That's my red-pill theory! ;-) Yeah, I googled and checked out aplhas site. Thats some pretty messed up frat boy fantasy stuff. !! Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 As I mentioned (and I think I might have touched on it in another post) class plays a big part in choosing mates. A fancy pants lawyer or doctor is going to be hard pressed to enter into marriage with someone who does not fall into their social class -- includes family and education background. That is correct and she is going to be highly picky and is not going to accept some guy just because he happens to be nice either. It is no coincidence professionals tend to marry other professionals and people from the same class/upbringing. I think that is one of the problems with OLD, some because they have "swiping rights" think are in with a huge chance or at least a somewhat equal chance, but in reality the old class divisions are still there. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Another problem with nice guys is they tend to view all people as equals. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 [...] BUT the "nice guy" label can be applied to just about any old guy who is struggling to get a woman. [...] It can be used in even different terms, but I agree with you in general. The term seriously lacks definition, which is IMHO the reason in generates these extended threads each and every time it is brought up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 IDK, the nice guy who role modeled me was married for life. I always thought that was what a 'nice guy' was, a man who treated men and women well, as equals, meaning he didn't 'look down' on others of 'lesser' socio-economic status, and showed care, love, affection and fidelity. Then the cruel world intervened and redefined the phrase. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I'm seeing this more often in older, divorced women. They either choose to stay single and just enjoy their lives without having to worry about the care and feeding of a man.....or they switch sides Jeez, I'd be so popular if I'd switch sides....but either way, you get too much sports talk, so nah. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It's not like it's a woman's responsibility to, once a month, pick out the nicest single man nearby and sleep with him. Thank you. Women are often made to feel this way, though. Sex is not charity. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I think the key word there is compromise. They aren't willing to budge much in the compromise area. Some are, some aren't. My best friend is very tolerant, too much so. She is the only one who does compromise in her relationship. I'm not very bendy at all. You either have to have it in your nature to compromise or you have to want a relationship so bad that you'll put up with more. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 It boils down to a cost benefit analysis. Many single older women have come out of LTRs or marriages and some can struggle to see what a man brings to their life. Many are OK financially, many are not natural born housekeepers, nursemaids or carers, many are not keen on the traditional role, so the addition of an older man will probably just add additional work for her to do and drama and stress to her life, so many having weighed up the costs and benefits are happier just to pass. It needs someone really special to tip the scales and as there are usually not many of them around she is fine being single. Some men are the same, BTDT so are happier pottering around doing what they want to do, when they want to do it, with no interference, no drama, no stress. You just described me, Elaine. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 living a lonely existence with seven cats is not a choice Oh, please. No one living with seven cats is ever really lonely. Cats are a hoot. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yep, who'd want any old nice guy anyway? Answer: when they want something. Like the toilet fixed I call Dennis, the plumber. He didn't even charge me the last time because I'm his oldest client and referred so many people to him. My best friend calls him too. My other good friend does it herself. But yes, to your point, it is nice to either be handy or know someone who's handy. As I've gotten older, I have had to hire people to do little things like get the robot vacuum out from under my bed when it died there. But if I were married to a guy my own age with similar limitations, we'd still have had to had someone else do it. Having a man is no guarantee they can cover you in old age. Also, none of my old bfs were particularly handy. I was handier than all but one, and he was about on my level at the time, but he never once did anything handy for me. Just because they can doesn't mean they will. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 A nice guy would. Nice guys are handy. In my social circle they're called 'second husbands' Women are smart. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Yes, but their plate may already be full. My ex sacrificed one of his only 2 days off doing chores for his mom. Link to post Share on other sites
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