The problem with "nice guys"

[preraph]

Mel Gibson did it in that movie

 

Yeah, and look what a prince he turned out to be.

[GoodOnPaper]

I don't think this is actually true. In most cases men also don't count that overweight, shy, socially awkward girl that is into them. They likely don't even notice her existence.

 

Ah . . . this urban legend has been around for a long time. Whether this actually happens is very hard to prove one way or the other but I can say that if anyone is hypersensitive about detecting any possibility of a woman seeming like she would tolerate a couple of minutes of attention, it's your typical struggling "nice guy".

[preraph]

Anyone who's ever walked the hall in high school can plainly see that many both girls and boys are invisible and may be remarked upon only if they have a jabworthy flaw. I would say most of the girls at my high school, plain, maybe pimples, maybe mousey, not a big personality, were totally unknown to the opposite sex. Only a big personality would make them get any attention, and I did have one such friend. Not a pretty face, red hair and freckles, but she had miles of self-esteem and I really admired her for being outgoing. In her last year of high school, her body took shape and that together with her smiling happy personality snagged her a steady boyfriend. People who find themselves to be invisible, and there are many, have to work on their personalities, find hobbies, and work at it.

[alphamale]

Anyone who's ever walked the hall in high school can plainly see that many both girls and boys are invisible and may be remarked upon only if they have a jabworthy flaw. I would say most of the girls at my high school, plain, maybe pimples, maybe mousey, not a big personality, were totally unknown to the opposite sex. Only a big personality would make them get any attention, and I did have one such friend. Not a pretty face, red hair and freckles, but she had miles of self-esteem and I really admired her for being outgoing. In her last year of high school, her body took shape and that together with her smiling happy personality snagged her a steady boyfriend. People who find themselves to be invisible, and there are many, have to work on their personalities, find hobbies, and work at it.

excellent analysis

[Cookiesandough]

The bad boys ain’t no good, but the good boys ain’t no fun ♫

Edited January 14, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[Sweetfish]

I always find conversations where men are telling women what they want to be somewhat strange.

 

Partly because it's pretty difficult to believe a man can somehow read women's minds and know what they want, and also because any generalizations like this are usually false. There are too many factors that feed into it.

 

numbers dont lie

[d0nnivain]

alphamale

 

 

Between this & your thread about how to keep women around are you trying to shed a nice guy image, per chance?

[Imajerk17]

I don't think this is actually true. In most cases men also don't count that overweight, shy, socially awkward girl that is into them. They likely don't even notice her existence.

 

Well, but you've done OLD....how many first dates do you go on, where the guy would like to see you again for at least a second date. And how many of those first dates, where you would like to see the guy again. (And these are guys you accepted a first date with, so presumably something about them made you think they could be a match.) Meanwhile how many "first emails" do you send to get a first date in the first place.

 

My point was this: It tends to be much easier for most women to get first and second dates than it is for most guys. And sometimes guys come on here and equate that* with 'your dating problems aren't nearly as tough as ours' and it shows in some of the posts.

 

 

 

*incorrectly too I must say, in many ways women have it much tougher than we do, but that is for another post

Edited January 27, 2018 by Imajerk17

[alphamale]

alphamale

 

 

Between this & your thread about how to keep women around are you trying to shed a nice guy image, per chance?

 

I used to be "nice guy" when I was young but soon learned that that's not what women want.

[d0nnivain]

I used to be "nice guy" when I was young but soon learned that that's not what women want.

 

Try to remain a polite guy. But feel free to express opinions, be independent & have confidence.

[alphamale]

Try to remain a polite guy.

 

Oh, I'm polite alright but I don't let women take advantage of me

[Cookiesandough]

Why do we call it nice guy? Why don't we call it what we really mean when we say 'nice guy'? Synonyms like push over, suck up, sycophant, desperate?

 

Oh yea, because then everyone would agree and there would be nothing to argue about.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[Art_Critic]

I used to be "nice guy" when I was young but soon learned that that's not what women want.

 

I'm a nice guy, I think women want a nice guy but want a guy that can stand on his own and not be a total pushover...

 

I got my wife by being a nice guy and showing her she was going to have a nice time with me.. also I HAD an edge to me that also made me spontaneous and HAD a good humor to me that made her laugh.

I also wasn't a total push over but gave in on the things that mattered to her and didn't give in on the things that mattered to me.

 

I've been a doormat before.. but that definition is all subjective to what actually happened and how much of it wasn't in my own control.

 

I have never been a bad boy however.. so I can't speak to that.. I have lost dates to them when I was single but won out in the end.

[nospam99]

Why do we call it nice guy? Why don't we call it what we really mean when we say 'nice guy'? Synonyms like push over, suck up, sycophant, desperate?

 

Oh yea, because then everyone would agree and there would be nothing to argue about.

 

I kind of like 'p--sy whipped' myself [nospam ducks for cover]

[Art_Critic]

Oh, I'm polite alright but I don't let women take advantage of me

 

After you have someone.. marriage or BF-GF how do you keep them ? you can't just be an ass or you will find yourself divorced or broken up so the maintenance of a relationship requires being a nice guy but not a doormat

[alphamale]

After you have someone.. marriage or BF-GF how do you keep them ?

 

mostly I end the relationship after six or seven months. once in a while I get dumped. I'm not into long relationships, I prefer a series of shorter ones.

[road]

Why do we call it nice guy? Why don't we call it what we really mean when we say 'nice guy'? Synonyms like push over, suck up, sycophant, desperate?

 

Oh yea, because then everyone would agree and there would be nothing to argue about.

 

You left out doormat, wimpy, loser. I am sure many more

labels can be brought here.

 

Instead of being hung up on labels or which is the best

label how about just agreeing on the meaning of a nice guy.

 

As a nice guy:

 

He will wait to get physical because he does not want to lose

her by moving to fast because he has heard countless stories

of women complaining that too many men make moves to fast.

 

He will gladly pay for the dates because as a man he wants to

show that he can provide for a woman.

 

He will treat her with respect because all he hears is women

complain about all those jerks that date her.

 

He will not verbally abuse her or physically abuse because

of all the feed back he has heard from women.

 

He has a steady job, but it's not the kind of job that women

swoon for.

 

He knows he is not a underwear model but his weight is under

control.

 

He is not 6' but has a clean appearance at all times.

 

He is awkward at making the first moves.

 

 

What he does see: woman after woman telling him I don't

think of you that way, yet they are always putting out for

jerk after jerk.

 

And or women are turning down Mr Nice Guy because they living

in their delusional world think that they bring enough to the

table to close the deal Mr Perfect.

[Shanex]

I posted here already but missed the whole discussion for months now.

 

Alphamale. I'm in the same boat, I land with some efforts 6 to 7 months relationships once in a while and eventually get dumped or otherwise. I don't know why. It doesn't hurt me much anymore but for christ sake there are a few women I would have loved to keep around longer.

 

I stated this in a different thread the other day. I am prone to fall for the wrong women and vice versa so it often ends after the 6 months mark.

[Cookiesandough]

Yeah that's what I mean. It's a red herring of a term. Way too many referents, yet cherry picks 'nice' as the problem. What does height have to do with being nice? And how do we know she's not telling him she doesn't think of him that way because he is awkward, not because he isn't physically abusive? Concept too broad/10

Edited January 27, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[Imajerk17]

Getting back to the original topic.... Women want to be respected and cherished, but they also want to be:

 

protected, claimed, taken, ravished, and as politically incorrect as this may sound, they even look to us to set the tone and lead the way.

 

Hard to do all this if you are only "nice"

Edited January 27, 2018 by Imajerk17

[alphamale]

Getting back to the original topic.... Women want to be respected and cherished, but they also want to be:

 

protected, claimed, taken, ravished, and as politically incorrect as this may sound, they even look to us to set the tone and lead the way.

 

Hard to do all this if you are only "nice"

 

indeed Imajerk17

[preraph]

Getting back to the original topic.... Women want to be respected and cherished, but they also want to be:

 

protected, claimed, taken, ravished, and as politically incorrect as this may sound, they even look to us to set the tone and lead the way.

 

Hard to do all this if you are only "nice"

 

Women are all different what exactly they want, so it's futile trying to make definitions and rules about it. Women aren't perfect either, so a lot of them want what will never make them happy, but that doesn't mean the guy is a monster or a nice guy, either one. It just means the thousands of facets that come together in personality for each of us finds certain points to connect with in others, and it's not always to our benefits, but that's how it is.

 

But I will say that at least for women desperate, needy, whiny, and fearful is fairly universally undesirable in men for women. Now, an interesting question would be whether some or all these qualities are actually attractive to some men in women. I'm saying yes. Maybe that's why some men don't understand why no one's attracted to those qualities in them.

[nospam99]

But I will say that at least for women desperate, needy, whiny, and fearful is fairly universally undesirable in men for women. Now, an interesting question would be whether some or all these qualities are actually attractive to some men in women. I'm saying yes.

 

Off-putting to me. I want 'my' woman to be just 'needy' enough that (she and) I can stroke my ego by (making me feel and) feeling 'needed'. 'Fearful' enough to hold me tight while watching a scary movie is nice, too. But she'd also better be okay with ME holding HER tight.

[preraph]

Off-putting to me. I want 'my' woman to be just 'needy' enough that (she and) I can stroke my ego by (making me feel and) feeling 'needed'. 'Fearful' enough to hold me tight while watching a scary movie is nice, too. But she'd also better be okay with ME holding HER tight.

 

Right, nothing wrong with that, but it proves what I said. Because the way you like a woman to be as stated above, stroking your ego, making you feel needed, acting like a baby at a scary movie, wouldn't be very attractive in a man to many women.

[Cookiesandough]

http://i.imgur.com/98yk5IJ.png