The problem with "nice guys"

[nospam99]

Right, nothing wrong with that, but it proves what I said. Because the way you like a woman to be as stated above, stroking your ego, making you feel needed, acting like a baby at a scary movie, wouldn't be very attractive in a man to many women.

 

I had to think about this for a bit.... So do many women not find it attractive if their man 1) strokes their ego 2) makes them feel needed and 3) uses a scary movie as an excuse for a warm embrace?

[Sweetfish]

http://i.imgur.com/98yk5IJ.png

 

 

Yeah. Right.

 

What ever you gals want to believe.

 

All this twisting of what a nice guy is and making it seem like these guys manipulative is probably the biggest load of dog doo doo I've seen in this thread.

 

Once the average guy is genuinely caring, rational and tries to work out situations with his girlfriend or wife, many (not all) these chicks will become bored.

 

Maybe you girls are confusing these men with PUAs that manipulate you.

 

Plenty of breakup thread were the guy was sweet to the girl and dumped for the bad boy or club life and this has been going on for decades. They make movies and books about it for YEARS. Women have admitted this! There are women on youtube (thousands of them) admitting that they do not like nice guys and a ton who admit making the mistake of dating a bad boy or loser.

 

 

Its just funny the women on here who can can not admit this phenomenon and I respect the women who are not fake and admit many women (specially when they are young) are not into not soo nice guy.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Sweetfish

[alphamale]

Once the average guy is genuinely caring, rational and tries to work out situations with his girlfriend or wife, many (not all) these chicks will become bored.

 

that's the truth

[Summer08]

Getting back to the original topic.... Women want to be respected and cherished, but they also want to be:

 

protected, claimed, taken, ravished, and as politically incorrect as this may sound, they even look to us to set the tone and lead the way.

 

Hard to do all this if you are only "nice"

 

You might be a jerk but you certainly know women.

[OneLov]

Yeah. Right.

 

What ever you gals want to believe.

 

All this twisting of what a nice guy is and making it seem like these guys manipulative is probably the biggest load of dog doo doo I've seen in this thread.

 

I think the meme is poking fun at the fact that some guys assume that being "nice" to a girl entitles you to her attention and affection. These guys often get butthurt and angry when girls do not respond to their "nice" gestures and manners. They get all salty because they assume that human attraction can be reduced and simplified to just being an agreeable and courteous person.

 

If you are being nice to a girl because you are trying to get with her--not because you are generally altruistic--then that is manipulative. A truly nice guy would buy her dinner and not care if she did not go out with him again. If you give someone a something as a "gift" but expect something in return, then it really is not a gift. If you act a certain way to get something you want or influence an outcome, then that is being manipulative.

[GorillaTheater]

If you act a certain way to get something you want or influence an outcome, then that is being manipulative.

 

 

Otherwise known as a "covert contract". Some of you guys may benefit from reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy".

[FilterCoffee]

I was just thinking about this today and this is my explanation. First off, let me describe my understanding of a nice guy. A usually frustrated guy who believes he can win over a woman by being, pleasant, reliable, stable, etc. but in most cases is unable to develop sufficient attraction to get a girl to go out with him.

 

While these guys may be good on paper and perfect for a lot of women, what I've noticed is that they are too available. When the girl needs someone to talk to about her lousy bf, he's more than ready to listen; when she needs help shopping for a male "colleague", he's more than happy to help out; and when she needs help setting up her wifi to post on LS, he's there in a jif. In the mind of the nice guy, he thinks by doing all this and showing how reliable he his, he's going to overwhelm her with his goodness and eventually win her over. Surely inspired by romcoms. But by behaving this way, he's turned himself into the 'low hanging fruit' that the woman I'm sure is appreciative of but nothing more. She knows she can have him any time so he becomes an ideal backup. This gives her the confidence to look for more attractive men.

 

So what's the solution? Don't be so easy. Don't think the world of a woman you've barely met. Don't be fooled by external beauty when there's nothing else you know. More than anything, respect yourself and your nature. You don't need to jump through hoops to be attractive, you just need to be you. If you're an introvert don't try to become an extrovert; if you don't like listening to certain kinds of music, you don't have to just to fit in; and if you're interested in the mundane don't suppress that just because you think it's uncool. I think the biggest lie we're told is that we need to "impress" others to get dates. By doing that we effectively normalize our personality and strip away the traits that make us unique. What would be better advice is be authentic and true to yourself. Hopefully, that would transform the nice guy from the low hanging types to the forbidden varieties.

[BluesPower]

I was just thinking about this today and this is my explanation. First off, let me describe my understanding of a nice guy. A usually frustrated guy who believes he can win over a woman by being, pleasant, reliable, stable, etc. but in most cases is unable to develop sufficient attraction to get a girl to go out with him.

 

While these guys may be good on paper and perfect for a lot of women, what I've noticed is that they are too available. When the girl needs someone to talk to about her lousy bf, he's more than ready to listen; when she needs help shopping for a male "colleague", he's more than happy to help out; and when she needs help setting up her wifi to post on LS, he's there in a jif. In the mind of the nice guy, he thinks by doing all this and showing how reliable he his, he's going to overwhelm her with his goodness and eventually win her over. Surely inspired by romcoms. But by behaving this way, he's turned himself into the 'low hanging fruit' that the woman I'm sure is appreciative of but nothing more. She knows she can have him any time so he becomes an ideal backup. This gives her the confidence to look for more attractive men.

 

So what's the solution? Don't be so easy. Don't think the world of a woman you've barely met. Don't be fooled by external beauty when there's nothing else you know. More than anything, respect yourself and your nature. You don't need to jump through hoops to be attractive, you just need to be you. If you're an introvert don't try to become an extrovert; if you don't like listening to certain kinds of music, you don't have to just to fit in; and if you're interested in the mundane don't suppress that just because you think it's uncool. I think the biggest lie we're told is that we need to "impress" others to get dates. By doing that we effectively normalize our personality and strip away the traits that make us unique. What would be better advice is be authentic and true to yourself. Hopefully, that would transform the nice guy from the low hanging types to the forbidden varieties.

 

I think this is a pretty good description...

 

The "Nice Guys" bare some of the responsibility for this situation, but a lot of women are also responsibly for some of these issues.

 

These girls know that these guys want more but the girls pretend that "we are just friends", when she knows that he has feelings.

 

And, a lot of women cry and cry when their exciting Bad Boy screws them over, but they will go back to him or another one in a heartbeat.

 

I don't really know what the solutions is for the NG's.

 

I really am a nice guy underneath everything, I really am.

 

I don't get into bar fights very often anymore, I drink less, I am in a steady relationship. But I still have some women that think I am that way hit on me. I really wish they would not, I would rather not be tempted, even though I am sure that I could resist, I have so far...

Edited February 9, 2018 by BluesPower

[carhill]

Good nice guy story, and appropriate to this forum since the guy never married:

 

It was Christmas Day, and then-Marine Commandant Gen. Charles Krulak always brought cookies to officers and other troops in the D.C. area who had to stand duty on that day. When he walked in to surprise the officer on duty — which should have been a Major — he asked, "Who's the officer of the day?"

 

The lance corporal there said, "Sir, it's Brigadier General Mattis." After a brief back-and-forth where Krulak thought he was being misunderstood, he said, "OK ... who was the officer who slept in that bed last night?"

 

"And the Marine said, 'Sir, Brigadier General Mattis,'" Krulak later told Stars & Stripes.

 

 

Then, Gen. Mattis walked around the corner, in his duty uniform. He explained to Krulak that he took the Major's duty since he had a family at home, and Mattis didn't.

 

 

------------------------

 

He's also known to refer to or introduce his elderly mother when she happened to be in the audience.

 

The problem with this kind of man is .......

 

I personally think the guys who start out as houligans like the ones who used to beat me (with their fists) when I was young and then later develop into nice guys after years or decades of being rough around the edges tend to have the most success. They better fit into society's image of what a man is. Image is important, as is social acceptance. Very powerful weapon of oppression, shunning is. Shunning for mating is brutal. Great lesson for guys who don't fit the mold. Your genes ain't getting passed on buddy. Gotta keep the breed strong.

[FilterCoffee]

I really am a nice guy underneath everything, I really am.

 

I bet you are Blues. I'm sure you're a reliable, loving and generous bf but you are also confident being yourself and I can't imagine you changing your personality to please others. That strength is what the ladies can perceive, hence the attention.

 

Good nice guy story, and appropriate to this forum since the guy never married:

 

It was Christmas Day, and then-Marine Commandant Gen. Charles Krulak always brought cookies to officers and other troops in the D.C. area who had to stand duty on that day. When he walked in to surprise the officer on duty — which should have been a Major — he asked, "Who's the officer of the day?"

 

The lance corporal there said, "Sir, it's Brigadier General Mattis." After a brief back-and-forth where Krulak thought he was being misunderstood, he said, "OK ... who was the officer who slept in that bed last night?"

 

"And the Marine said, 'Sir, Brigadier General Mattis,'" Krulak later told Stars & Stripes.

 

 

Then, Gen. Mattis walked around the corner, in his duty uniform. He explained to Krulak that he took the Major's duty since he had a family at home, and Mattis didn't.

 

 

------------------------

 

He's also known to refer to or introduce his elderly mother when she happened to be in the audience.

 

The problem with this kind of man is .......

 

But is this a problem carhill? I'm not too familiar with his story but what if he chose to be single all his life? That would make him pretty badass to me. A man who doesn't need to follow any herd.

[carhill]

Just keeping the thread going with topical material and I grew up being raised by and admiring men like General Mattis. Those were my role models. The houligans, not so much. However, those guys were breeding at a young age so can't deny reality. They were attractive. That's the lesson I try to share with young guys who face this problem. Accept reality. It is what it is.

[ffar]

Well all I can say, that I consider myself to be nice guy type. End up as 29 old dude who never had girlfriend. Quite successful in life, but still friendzone is my second name Week ago I was rejected again.

[basil67]

Well all I can say, that I consider myself to be nice guy type. End up as 29 old dude who never had girlfriend. Quite successful in life, but still friendzone is my second name Week ago I was rejected again.

 

That's a bummer.

 

Give us a sales pitch on yourself. Besides being a nice person, why would a girl want to go out with you?

[ffar]

Well I things I do finding as positive and attractive are not apparently the same for girls. I don’t smoke, don’t drink(mother alcoholic, she was biting me, so I don’t feel comfortable with alcohol and people who are drunk), don’t do drugs. Never did those things. I was called by lots of people “outsider” because I preferred books, cinemas, planetariums rather than clubs, bars. BORING!!

Hard working person, 2 own apartments, no debs, passionate in martial arts. I don’t follow faction and never did.

 

Don’t know what you actually want to hear.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/652174-29-old-never-had-girlfriend-love-not-everyone

[basil67]

Well I things I do finding as positive and attractive are not apparently the same for girls. I don’t smoke, don’t drink(mother alcoholic, she was biting me, so I don’t feel comfortable with alcohol and people who are drunk), don’t do drugs. Never did those things. I was called by lots of people “outsider” because I preferred books, cinemas, planetariums rather than clubs, bars. BORING!!

Hard working person, 2 own apartments, no debs, passionate in martial arts. I don’t follow faction and never did.

 

Don’t know what you actually want to hear.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/652174-29-old-never-had-girlfriend-love-not-everyone

 

What I wanted was a positive sales pitch about yourself. Especially about the things which make you interesting and good company to be around.

[ffar]

Well, now you have it. Anything you would like to comment?

Edited February 10, 2018 by ffar

[basil67]

Well, now you have it. Anything you would like to comment?

 

Only that if your previous description was the best you can come up with, it's no surprise you are single.

[ffar]

No, not really. I did not expect longer conversation however at least I am hoping that I was able to make your day, because it seems like, you love to asking people questions and then make fun of them.

Edited February 10, 2018 by ffar

[basil67]

No, not really. I did not expect longer conversation however at least I am hoping that I was able to make your day, because it seems like, you love to asking people questions and then make fun of them.

 

I'm not making fun of you.

 

Thing is, I asked you to sell yourself and you replied with a really depressing description of yourself and your life. Now I don't know you well enough to even begin giving any input which will counter your approach to life.

 

The very first steps in getting dates is to be fun, positive and engaging. This is what I was hoping to see when I asked you for a sales pitch. I wanted to see the other side to you.

[thefooloftheyear]

No, not really. I did not expect longer conversation however at least I am hoping that I was able to make your day, because it seems like, you love to asking people questions and then make fun of them.

 

 

You're new....She(basil) is one of the kindest women you will ever find on this board and I am sure in real life as well.....Work with her....She's trying to help you, man....

 

TFY

[ffar]

Well then we both read things in different way we were should.

 

I gave some description of my situations to make understanding why some things are in the way they are and not because I feel sorry for myself.

 

Instead of writing I am emphatic and helping a lot of people in hard moments, I would tell you for sake of this discussion that I was in hell when I was child, and thanks to that I learn and became emphatic. Not because I feel sorry for myself but because I know how it is, and I know it is hard. All for that to give a better understanding.

 

Yet if that’s depressing for you, then alright. I was finding lots of things in me as positive… looks like my values were rubbish. When I was saying BORING! it was referring how other people finding this. But I won’t start to smoke or take drugs, quit my passion, because I want to be liked by others. I will stay me.

Edited February 10, 2018 by ffar

[basil67]

Well I things I do finding as positive and attractive are not apparently the same for girls. I don’t smoke, don’t drink(mother alcoholic, she was biting me, so I don’t feel comfortable with alcohol and people who are drunk), don’t do drugs. Never did those things. I was called by lots of people “outsider” because I preferred books, cinemas, planetariums rather than clubs, bars. BORING!!

Hard working person, 2 own apartments, no debs, passionate in martial arts. I don’t follow faction and never did.

 

Don’t know what you actually want to hear.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/652174-29-old-never-had-girlfriend-love-not-everyone

 

I don't mean that you or your interests are boring and depressing. You may be a really fun guy, but it doesn't come across that way when you describe yourself. If you were trying to sell a product, would you talk about what it doesn't and can't do? Would you acknowledge the negatives that people have called the product? Of course not! So don't do it to yourself.

 

Let me turn around what you wrote and give it a positive spin. It would help if you gave more positive descriptions too.

 

I'm a lover of books. I particularly enjoy books in the XY &Z genre. A perfect afternoon for me might involve seeing a new film or going to a technology museum. I enjoy both eating out and cooking up a feast at home. In my spare time I hang out with friends doing X and Y (I'm making this stuff up now)

 

I work hard and enjoy my job. I've got a good amount of work/life balance.

Financially secure.

 

I've been doing martial arts for a number of years and have found a great passion for it. Not a follower of fashion, I prefer those who live to the beat of their own drum.

 

It's this positive persona which you need to put on when engaging with women.

[basil67]

You're new....She(basil) is one of the kindest women you will ever find on this board and I am sure in real life as well.....Work with her....She's trying to help you, man....

 

TFY

 

Thanks TFY....

[Imajerk17]

I agree that basil7 is awesome...

 

BUT I would never suggest that a guy try to "sell" himself. You just can't "logic" anyone to feel attraction for you, it just doesn't work that way. If it did, many of the Nice Guys here wouldn't have their dating issues, and there wouldn't be so many women coming on here hopelessly devoted to some dude who can hardly hold a job.

 

You are likely to be doing much better if SHE is the one doing the talking and you are getting her to laugh.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Imajerk17

[basil67]

I agree that basil7 is awesome...

 

BUT I would never suggest that a guy try to "sell" himself. You just can't "logic" anyone to feel attraction for you, it just doesn't work that way. If it did many of the Nice Guys here wouldn't have their dating issues, and there wouldn't be so many women coming on here hung up over some dude who can hardly hold a job.

 

You are likely to be doing much better if SHE is the one doing the talking and you are getting her to laugh.

 

Ha, thanks to you too Imajerk.

 

It's not so much about the ffar selling himself to women, but selling himself to himself. If he can lead his thought processes in terms of positives instead of all the things he doesn't do, he will hopefully find more confidence.