Narcissism and Hoovering...vs. Sincerity

[Southern Sun]

1) Narcissists don't go NC. They might give the silent treatment. But they never go NC, in an effort to totally remove oneself from another's life for the reasons that you did. I will say that narcissists might certainly accuse a person who went NC on them of being cold and awful and a hideously terrible person, though. It is an extreme offense to their ego.

 

2) Narcissists don't typically realize that they have done someone wrong and make efforts to apologize, without lots of therapy and extreme self-reflection. And that is not what a hoover is anyway. A hoover is an effort to re-engage with a person, to re-establish the emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship cycle.

 

3) Narcissists don't make therapy appointments when their girlfriends accuse them of hoovering when all they believed they wanted to do was apologize.

 

I'm not saying it's not appropriate to evaluate your motives. And perhaps it's still better for you to just leave her alone and let her heal. Your apology IS more for your needs than hers. Sometimes we want to make amends and it is simply not received the way we hoped. Not everyone forgives. If that's the case, we do have to just let it go.

 

Most narcissists, if accused of being a narcissist, don't immediately go...really?? I'm a narcissist? Oh no! And start researching and asking everyone around them questions. They will assume the other person is wrong and move on.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Thank you Southern. I have, over the days, spent a considerable amount of time speaking with friends and family, counselor regarding this. I have never 'truly' felt that I am a narcissist, but I also did not dismiss my ex's motivations for claiming so. She is very angry and conflicted and I know that much of this has to do with these negative feelings she has for me now. Part of this post was a way for me to determine a tactful way of disagreeing w/o fanning the flames. My most recent conversation with her was much more agreeable and I suspect she doesn't truly feel that I am a narcissist.

 

Never the less, I need to be a solution and that will likely mean that I go NC...again. Damn. I hate it. Hate it.

[todreaminblue]

Thanks.

 

I had a very long conversation with a very good friend of mine last night and I was bludgeoned with the reality of what I was doing. Ack. I am so disappointed in myself.

 

you know what simples some people never get to realise they are making mistakes so they make them continuously over and over again....self realization is a blessing ...it means you get to better yourself and you realize you have wronged another.....thats a blessing because you did whats right....you apologised.......in my opinion you have had personal growth that cant be learned any other way than to make a mistake and you learn from it.....and you have...take it positive simples....

 

so to you i write, its been refreshing to see that growth and the honesty that you have posted in your posts...thankyou for sharing..i wish you the very best and continued personal growth..deb

Edited December 20, 2017 by todreaminblue

[Gr8fuln2020]

you know what simples some people never get to realise they are making mistakes so they make them continuously over and over again....self realization is a blessing ...it means you get to better yourself and you realize you have wronged another.....thats a blessing because you did whats right....you apologised.......in my opinion you have had personal growth that cant be learned any other way than to make a mistake and you learn from it.....and you have...take it positive simples....

 

so to you i write, its been refreshing to see that growth and the honesty that you have posted in your posts...thankyou for sharing..i wish you the very best and continued personal growth..deb

 

Thank you. I have much work to do.

Edited December 21, 2017 by simpleNfit

[Soak]

Hoovering i think is a form of 'charm' and manipulation with a view to 'sucking' somebody back in. If you're merely apologising without expecting anything in return, it is unlikely you are hoovering.

[Chilli]

l don't get where all the sympathy for her and your actions to her screwing around on you are coming form , or have l missed something.

 

My main concerns the kids , did you say you had kids with her ?

You've been seeing and still looking after your kids though , right ?

 

ps, l don't believe your a narc , that shyts thrown around everywhere these days by people and even kids, 18yrs olds, that have no real idea.

But you sound way way too troubled by everything to be a narc.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Chilli

[whatnot]

sometimes...just being willing.....is enough....if given the opportunity...which isn't always given. The willingness to make right....is important...even when circumstances can't allow it. It's not always up to us. It's not always in our control. But ... the willingness to do so...is.

 

take care

[littleblackheart]

1) Narcissists don't go NC. They might give the silent treatment. But they never go NC, in an effort to totally remove oneself from another's life for the reasons that you did. I will say that narcissists might certainly accuse a person who went NC on them of being cold and awful and a hideously terrible person, though. It is an extreme offense to their ego.

 

2) Narcissists don't typically realize that they have done someone wrong and make efforts to apologize, without lots of therapy and extreme self-reflection. And that is not what a hoover is anyway. A hoover is an effort to re-engage with a person, to re-establish the emotionally abusive and manipulative relationship cycle.

 

3) Narcissists don't make therapy appointments when their girlfriends accuse them of hoovering when all they believed they wanted to do was apologize.

 

I'm not saying it's not appropriate to evaluate your motives. And perhaps it's still better for you to just leave her alone and let her heal. Your apology IS more for your needs than hers. Sometimes we want to make amends and it is simply not received the way we hoped. Not everyone forgives. If that's the case, we do have to just let it go.

 

Most narcissists, if accused of being a narcissist, don't immediately go...really?? I'm a narcissist? Oh no! And start researching and asking everyone around them questions. They will assume the other person is wrong and move on.

 

Sorry for veering out of the main post, but most narcissists are aware of the effect they have on others, and they do care but only if it paints them in a bad light. It's a big part of the reason they can't change. They would do anything to preserve their self-made fake image of themselves, because their egos can't cope with any sort of criticism, to the point of smearing those who threaten to shatter their illusions (generally behind their back). They can't move on, they are stuck in the past andthey will only do what benefits them in the moment.

 

 

As far as the OP, hopefully you have learned that you need to stay away from your ex. Like a previous poster said, she owes you nothing.

[Gr8fuln2020]

l don't get where all the sympathy for her and your actions to her screwing around on you are coming form , or have l missed something.

 

My main concerns the kids , did you say you had kids with her ?

You've been seeing and still looking after your kids though , right ?

 

ps, l don't believe your a narc , that shyts thrown around everywhere these days by people and even kids, 18yrs olds, that have no real idea.

But you sound way way too troubled by everything to be a narc.

 

I am very much involved in my children and their welfare. I have been taking care of them as a single parent for the vast majority of their lives and continue to do so. The unrelenting need to protect my kids from her past decision played a great part in my moving away from her and her kids when I decided we needed a separation. I don't regret that need to protect, only the extent in which I took it and my own coldness that ensued during the time. I could and should have handled this better. Much better.

 

sometimes...just being willing.....is enough....if given the opportunity...which isn't always given. The willingness to make right....is important...even when circumstances can't allow it. It's not always up to us. It's not always in our control. But ... the willingness to do so...is.

 

take care

 

I have not asked her to get back with me. I resist the notion as I see that I have no right to do so. I am in full 'make this right' mode. Not only to assuage my own guilt , but to do my part in helping her understand what was going on with me at the time and why I was so unforgiving.

 

She wants to know. She knows much more now. My last conversation with her seems to indicate that she had no other way of understanding why I behaved the way I did so she attached the narcissist label. I suspect that she never 'truly' believed that I was/am.

 

Sorry for veering out of the main post, but most narcissists are aware of the effect they have on others, and they do care but only if it paints them in a bad light. It's a big part of the reason they can't change. They would do anything to preserve their self-made fake image of themselves, because their egos can't cope with any sort of criticism, to the point of smearing those who threaten to shatter their illusions (generally behind their back). They can't move on, they are stuck in the past andthey will only do what benefits them in the moment.

 

 

As far as the OP, hopefully you have learned that you need to stay away from your ex. Like a previous poster said, she owes you nothing.

 

Stuck in the past for sure. I am not trying to get her back. That is not my goal, so the very definition of hoovering can easily to attributed to someone who is trying too hard to seek forgiveness or apologizing. As I said earlier, NC is not possible right now. We have been communicating regarding the holidays, gifts to one another's children and her need to understand. There are some things that she needs me to do either to move on or to allow her to understand/forgive/minimize the pain and NC will not help in this regard.

 

This isn't about what SHE owes ME. Rather, what I need to do for her, as expressed by her, so that she can rid of me or find a way to keep my in her life, however distant. I hated what she did and what I became, most of all, but I never stopped loving her.

 

Yeah, I know this is messy.

Edited December 23, 2017 by simpleNfit

[Gr8fuln2020]

Update...

 

We have decided to go NC after all. Neither of us are going to heal w/o some time away. No plans to get together even if we do, but we are both in a better place based on what we've been able to share with one another the past few days. I am good with that.

 

Thank you all for your insights. They were all very valuable.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I am currently in amazement! Recently found out that, according to my ex, it was her counselor who told her to move across the country close to me to try to recover our relationship. WTF?! I told her that we needed to end it long before she, unannounced, moved a few blocks from me. When she made that move, I became even more entrenched and frigid. OMG. This guy is the same guy, who after a single 30 minute phone conversation told her that I was a narcissist! I am livid! I cannot help but believe that her counselor helped contribute to the total deterioration of our relationship. Ack. When she came down unannounced, I was beginning to thaw, soften. When she showed-up out of the blue, I was incredulous.

 

Just another thing to talk about during therapy.

Edited December 31, 2017 by simpleNfit

[Mr.Me]

Sounds like a truck load of BS to me.

 

Appears to be more like stalking at this point.

 

Doesn't really sound like there's going to a winner here either. You guys have kids and removing them from the other parent if they are unwilling to go will likley damage the parental relationship somewhat. As sad as it seems you MAY have to be the only adult in the room for a while and let the children figure out who the good parent is over time. It's hard to do trust me I know but so is being an adult most days of the week.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I just don't know. She had me speak to her therapist last year and I was still angry with the events that led to our break-up. After this solitary, 30-45 minute talk, he diagnoses and tells her that I am a narcissist??! WTF!?

 

This same therapist or perhaps another, don't know, tells her that she should move thousands of miles with her own children, unannounced, near me?! WTF?! Everyone knows that the more you intrude, the more people, especially men, tend to distance themselves. This, while I was still angry with her. Jimminy Crickets!

 

I truly feel that her unannounced move (and one other previous late night knock on the door of my apartment) really did me in. I could only think, what crazy woman does that?! After being told on many occasions that I need time away from her?!?!?

 

Ugh. More stuff to talk about with my therapist.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I just don't know. She had me speak to her therapist last year and I was still angry with the events that led to our break-up. After this solitary, 30-45 minute talk, he diagnoses and tells her that I am a narcissist??! WTF!?

 

This same therapist or perhaps another, don't know, tells her that she should move thousands of miles with her own children, unannounced, near me?! WTF?! Everyone knows that the more you intrude, the more people, especially men, tend to distance themselves. This, while I was still angry with her. Jimminy Crickets!

 

I truly feel that her unannounced move (and one other previous late night knock on the door of my apartment) really did me in. I could only think, what crazy woman does that?! After being told on many occasions that I need time away from her?!?!?

 

Ugh. More stuff to talk about with my therapist.

 

I'm confused. Do the two of you have children together or you each have children from previous relationships? Is this your ex-wife or an ex-girlfriend? Was your relationship initially long distance?

[Gr8fuln2020]

I'm confused. Do the two of you have children together or you each have children from previous relationships? Is this your ex-wife or an ex-girlfriend? Was your relationship initially long distance?

 

Children from previous relationships. Ex-wife. When we separated, I moved myself and my kids across the country to get away.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Children from previous relationships. Ex-wife. When we separated, I moved myself and my kids across the country to get away.

 

Oh, ok, then she followed you on the advice of her therapist, who also thinks you're a narcissist? Are you even sure you were talking on the phone to an actual therapist?? Did you check credentials?

 

She sounds a bit loony, your ex......what kind of medicine does she practice that she could just up and move across the country?

[Gr8fuln2020]

To tell you the truth, I only know that he was a therapist b/c she said he was and he introduced himself as one. I didn't have any reason to doubt it. She is a FP and finding a job, however short term is very easy all over the country.

 

She was desperate to get me, our family back together. I didn't see her efforts as anything else other than unstable. It would be and is consistent with her past behaviors.

 

I am just so pissed right now. The frickin' therapists that gave her advice were simply OFF. Whether it was the same or multiple...Jimminy crickets! I told her I needed time away from her.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

To tell you the truth, I only know that he was a therapist b/c she said he was and he introduced himself as one. I didn't have any reason to doubt it. She is a FP and finding a job, however short term is very easy all over the country.

 

She was desperate to get me, our family back together. I didn't see her efforts as anything else other than unstable. It would be and is consistent with her past behaviors.

 

I am just so pissed right now. The frickin' therapists that gave her advice were simply OFF. Whether it was the same or multiple...Jimminy crickets! I told her I needed time away from her.

 

Well, to answer your original question, I don't think you're a narcissist, or "hoovering" (which is a new term for me, and I thought it was a typo until I started reading the thread!). I don't think narcissists post on web forums seeking advice, for one thing! People throw out the term "narcissist" or "narc" willy-nilly these days to describe all sorts of behavior, particular rejection.

 

No contact is definitely your best bet in this case I'd say.

[Mr.Me]

Why are you wasting your energy trying to figure out this mess? Why play a game you'll never win? What's in for you to do so? Are you enjoying the drama?

 

If you have no ties, and she won't leave you alone, get a NC order.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Gosh darnit! She has been wavering back and forth regarding this narcissism accusation. She has been texting me with rapid flurries of anger, regret, distrust and her uncomfortable relationship with her current bf. She's told him about me. I have tried to go NC 3-4x just within the last 10 days and she continues to text me. Always heavy and often angry. Initially I just wanted to know if she was okay and get her address as we do send holiday, birthday gifts to our respective children.

 

Prior to that, I had not communicated with her for 8-months. Complete and absolute NC. I found out a couple of days ago that she emailed my brother to try to get to me and further explain her side. This was after the divorce.

 

I look at her life and cannot believe the decisions she has made before, during and now after me. It saddens me...and pisses me off.

[Art_Critic]

She is in a relationship with another guy and using you as her emotional sound board, not someone she is thinking of getting back with and missing..

 

She has labeled you with NPD..

 

You are in control of this, YOU are allowing the contact and you are NOT doing NC right now..

 

Block her and don't respond to ANY contact from her.. you will feel better

[Mr.Me]

Gosh darnit! She has been wavering back and forth regarding this narcissism accusation. She has been texting me with rapid flurries of anger, regret, distrust and her uncomfortable relationship with her current bf. She's told him about me. I have tried to go NC 3-4x just within the last 10 days and she continues to text me. Always heavy and often angry. Initially I just wanted to know if she was okay and get her address as we do send holiday, birthday gifts to our respective children.

 

Prior to that, I had not communicated with her for 8-months. Complete and absolute NC. I found out a couple of days ago that she emailed my brother to try to get to me and further explain her side. This was after the divorce.

 

I look at her life and cannot believe the decisions she has made before, during and now after me. It saddens me...and pisses me off.

 

Maybe this comes across as harsh but I'm always honest. Brutally sometimes.

This reads to me......

 

I run away, she follows, I stop and talk,

I run away, she follows, I stop and talk,

Rinse and repeat.......

 

If you really want it to end. END IT! Don't stop and talk. Keep running.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I know, I know. I am consciously aware, but spiritually and emotionally confounded by guilt, concern and a dire need to forgive her and myself.

[Mr.Me]

I know, I know. I am consciously aware, but spiritually and emotionally confounded by guilt, concern and a dire need to forgive her and myself.

 

Likely she knows this already and is using it to keep the game going you SAY you don't wanna play. Your actions aren't really matching up though it seems.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Likely she knows this already and is using it to keep the game going you SAY you don't wanna play. Your actions aren't really matching up though it seems.

 

I agree. On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you miss her?