edgygirl Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Does it make sense? I think I just broke up with a man I've been dating for over a month. Things were going relatively well, he seemed serious about the relationship, we have similar sense of humor. BUT... his views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the Arab world have always bothered me. I tried to suppress my feelings on this, but I'm not sure I can do it permanently and not care. Being liberal and Jewish, I'm a die-hard advocate for peace. I feel compassion for the Palestinians, even though a parcel of them does commit terrorist attacks in Israel and is not interested in peace. I try to see the positive and think by finding the right partners there, one day we will achieve peace. He on the other hand, despite being mostly liberal in American matters, is not liberal for Israel issues. He bad mouths Palestinians and the Arab world, keeps sending me videos and articles trying to prove how evil they really are, how they're not interested in peace, and only interested in destroying us. We were supposed to meet, I had just sent a positive video on the region showing Jews and Palestinians getting along, and he sent back a negative video. He said I don't want to "see reality". Well I think he is the biased one. I lost it. I said I am not sure I can be with someone who is not compassionate about a whole group of people and claim they're mostly evil. He had said in the past that he doesn't mind we have differing opinions, that it's better than to be with someone with no opinions whatsoever as a few of his exes. I am not sure. I think his views show lack of compassion in general, and it's hard for me to feel okay with that. Am I overreacting? It's been so hard to find someone cool, and I still wanted to try to have a family. With letting this go, I feel I am losing one of my last chances at it. Thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I've seen relationships survive opposing political views. In those cases, both individuals had a "live and let live" policy and were not in each other's faces about it. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Me Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 The problem with politics is everyone think they are right. The debate will never end with out someone willing to let some one else disagree. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 keeps sending me videos and articles trying to prove how evil they really are I would have a problem with this part. Couples can have different views of the world as long as they don't try to convince the other party they are wrong. My bf and I have different views on religion, politics, we're an interacial couple so we have several black versus white debates but we never ever try to change the other person's view or aggravate them with videos and articles. There is no need to win a debate, the point is to just share different views, this man doesn't get that. It must be exhausting. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Timshel Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 He has chosen a side though Edgy and not a negotiable one. I think it's very fair of you to beg off of this considering the current political climate. My SO and I had some heated debates concerning politics after we had been together for some while and trust was established. This early in contact, the real world and very valid concerns..I'd leave this one. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 personally i can be with someone who has different views than my own because i like to have different perspectives helps me learn about the world and people on general principles.......even with different perspectives there is always a common ground......you have to find that common ground and not take a differing view as a personal attack on your own....its just different.....but..in saying that if you are trying to change his mind or him yours...then thats the problem..... i am a compassionate person but i know that war is a necessary evil sometimes..i would defend my country if the navy called me back to serve because i love my country and the people in it...you can be a compassionate warrior(sounds like a poem lol).....and i also know that propaganda often colors views on both sides.....unless you are actually there and part of it.....you find a common ground in that both of you maybe love your country and there needs to be that balance in any argument or discussion where you find a common love then you can build that bridge. you must have common ground...what or where is it?...deb 1 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I like a healthy debate & can't be with someone who has no clue about politics but I don't mind an opposing view point as long as it is expressed in a respectful manner. We can agree to disagree. My husband is a of a different political party. My parents had different ideas. That said this feels more like him cramming his opposing view point down your throat with no room for disagreement. None of this is back & white. If you feel like he won't or can't hear you don't continue. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 This couple made it work long-term: https://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/james-carville-mary-matalin-recall-finding-love-101333 James: "“I’d rather stay happily married than pick a fight with my wife over politics.”" They lived a pretty high profile life and are still married some 24 years later. Works for some folks. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author edgygirl Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Thanks everyone, it's so good to get your perspective. If I am honest, I think we're both trying to "convince" each other. He's not the only one to blame. But with the sometimes vulgar words he uses to describe Muslims, it upsets me so much, that it turns my stomach In this political climate, this is such a central subject for both of us, that it's hard for it not to come up often. For some reason, with several of my recent exes in past years, I didn't even know where they stood politically. But now the whole political thing just takes central stage -- to the point where I put in my dating profile I'd pass on Republicans, conservatives, and any Donny supporter. I'd be curious to know how people deal with political differences like this. Do you just not discuss political matters with each other to avoid confrontation? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Scarlett.O'hara Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) He bad mouths Palestinians and the Arab world, keeps sending me videos and articles trying to prove how evil they really are, how they're not interested in peace, and only interested in destroying us Honestly, I would rather be alone than put up with views that extreme, but that's just my opinion. I do understand your hesitation because you want to start a family, but try not to let that desire cloud your better judgement if you have such different principles. Consider, whoever the father of your children will be, he will have a significant influence on the opinions and values of your children. Is that how you want your children raised? I would think it over carefully. Edited December 21, 2017 by Scarlett.O'hara 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author edgygirl Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Thank you for reminding me of Carville, carhill! Maybe I should get that book they wrote on how to deal with big political differences https://www.amazon.com/Love-War-Presidents-Daughters-Louisiana/dp/0399167242 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 IMO, success is more about synergy than identical beliefs, and also about personalities which mesh well. Grew up in it and lived it. If I had to use one word, it would be respect. IDK, perhaps that's not applicable anymore. Times have changed. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
JuneL Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Someone has recently done a survey to find out the most important elemants for married couples to remain together for a long time. As it turned out, communication is an essential element among those who have stayed together for 10-15 years. However, for those who have remained with each other for 20, 30, or even 40+ years, respect is the by far most important thing. IMO, success is more about synergy than identical beliefs, and also about personalities which mesh well. Grew up in it and lived it. If I had to use one word, it would be respect. IDK, perhaps that's not applicable anymore. Times have changed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author edgygirl Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) I did think about that. I'd prefer to be with someone who at least respects the other people. What role model does it set to be so hateful and pessimistic? I think about my brother in law, who would never ever use vulgar language to describe others. It just seems so low, so lacking in compassion. He's a total guy's guy and alpha male too. Maybe it has to do with that to some extent. Maybe I'm used to dating guys more similar to me. Consider, whoever the father of your children will be, he will have a significant influence on the opinions and values of your children. Is that how you want your children raised? I would think it over carefully. Edit: I think he disrespects Muslims in general, he thinks I disrespected him too, by calling him an "hasbarah troll" - people trained by the right wing government to explain/defend Israel even when sometimes it doesn't have the most ethical actions. Edited December 21, 2017 by edgygirl 1 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I did think about that. I'd prefer to be with someone who at least respects the other people. What role model does it set to be so hateful and pessimistic? I think about my brother in law, who would never ever use vulgar language to describe others. It just seems so low, so lacking in compassion. He's a total guy's guy and alpha male too. Maybe it has to do with that to some extent. Maybe I'm used to dating guys more similar to me. name calling and viciousness or cruelty in words or actions is very different from a healthy debate....i have an ex like this...he is not fond of people....very distrustful especially cultures he just doesnt even try to understand ...when he is disrespectful towards others i tell him to keep his opinions to himself...and its a massive showdown between him and i ........but...in saying that he has had the worst childhood that i have ever known...i understand why he is distrustful...i still dont allow him to call others names.....deb 2 Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick, but this looks like it's going way beyong political differences. This guy actually sounds bigoted against a whole group of people - that would be a deal breaker to me. Casual racism isn't any more acceptable towards one group than another. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author edgygirl Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Yes but it's for political reasons. He wouldn't study them so much and have so many ways to "show" their flaws if it wasn't for the fact he wants to defend/protect/advocate for Israel. I love Israel and want to defend it too, but at least I have compassion for all involved in the tragic historic issue, I think all people involved matter and the well-being of everyone in the region needs to be accounted for. It's hard to explain, being Jewish, the significance of having Israel as a place to escape for our own survival. Holocaust, etc. I almost understand where he comes from, because it's a surviving mechanism, albeit an ugly way to dealing with it. I may have gotten the wrong end of the stick, but this looks like it's going way beyong political differences. This guy actually sounds bigoted against a whole group of people - that would be a deal breaker to me. Casual racism isn't any more acceptable towards one group than another. Link to post Share on other sites
littleblackheart Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Yes but it's for political reasons. He wouldn't study them so much and have so many ways to "show" their flaws if it wasn't for the fact he wants to defend/protect/advocate for Israel. I love Israel and want to defend it too, but at least I have compassion for all involved in the tragic historic issue, I think all people involved matter and the well-being of everyone in the region needs to be accounted for. It's hard to explain, being Jewish, the significance of having Israel as a place to escape for our own survival. Holocaust, etc. I almost understand where he comes from, because it's a surviving mechanism, albeit an ugly way to dealing with it. I totally get it. I'm not Israeli or Palestinian but I'm well-read on the conflict for research, and I have colleagues that I work with that are Israeli and Palestinian. I have no horse in that race personally, and I understand the deep investment in Israel, but from my perspective (and many others, including Jewish/Isreali people), hating on a whole group of people and extending it to their religion (despite the fact that a substantial minority of Palestinians are Christian) is not really justifiable. Edited December 21, 2017 by littleblackheart Link to post Share on other sites
Author edgygirl Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Agree 100%. I can't deny the videos he sends me are horrifying, I just prefer to think those are extremist lunatics and not everyone is like that. Maybe I have a bad survival instinct, because I prefer to die myself than to be disrespectful to an entire religion/race/background. Muslims, Christians, Jews - we all have our lunatics. Judging a whole religion on them is just nuts. I totally get it. I'm not Israeli or Palestinian but I'm well-read on the conflict for research, and I have colleagues that I work with that are Israeli and Palestinian. I have no horse in that race personally, and I understand the deep investment in Israel, but from my perspective (and many others, including Jewish/Isreali people), hating on a whole group of people and extending it to their religion (despite the fact that a substantial majority of Palestinians are Christian) is not really justifiable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author edgygirl Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Well interestingly he just texted me quite a few horrid things, perhaps showing his true colors for the first time. 10 minutes after we were supposed to meet, he wrote: 'I hope the Palestinians took you out on a date'. I am not sure he showed up there after our afternoon fight, but I did not, as I assumed it was off. He then proceeded to use a few misfortunes that are happening in my life to attack me. It seems to me he did it out of spite, almost as... revenge? I did suggest early today we might have to think "us" over etc. Wow. I’m flabbergasted. Good riddance. After all I guess it’s good to take your time very slowly while dating. Eventually people show their true colors. We all complain about dating, but it's probably a necessary evil Thanks everyone for your insights. Edited December 21, 2017 by edgygirl 3 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Agree 100%. I can't deny the videos he sends me are horrifying, I just prefer to think those are extremist lunatics and not everyone is like that. Muslims, Christians, Jews - we all have our lunatics. Judging a whole religion on them is just nuts. Exactly. Not everybody is an extremist. You, unfortunately, are dating an extremist. In my relationship, I'm conservative. He's liberal. However, he doesn't think everybody who believes in small government & personal responsibility is heartless. And I don't believe that everybody who believes in a government having paternalistic responsibility for it's most vulnerable citizens is an idiot. Neither of us believes in the current administration although ironically it has done more for DH then me. If this guy is using vulgarity to make a point & is shouting without hearing you, your concerns aren't with his ideology but his methodology. Anybody who can't function diplomatically is to be avoided. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
CptInsano Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 10 minutes after we were supposed to meet, he wrote: 'I hope the Palestinians took you out on a date'. I am not sure he showed up there after our afternoon fight, but I did not, as I assumed it was off. He then proceeded to use a few misfortunes that are happening in my life to attack me. It seems to me he did it out of spite, almost as... revenge? I did suggest early today we might have to think "us" over etc. Wow. I’m flabbergasted. Yes, too much anger overall. I'm not sure about his personal background, but something really doesn't sound right. I've been in relationships where both partners have diverging political backgrounds, and it can work. But you have to put anger aside and refrain from moralizing, ridicule and plain snarkiness. I lost contact with a woman who I dated because she was very anti-Trump. Not that I like him very much, but I don't think he is the end of the world, either. She just couldn't let go of that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Wow! unbelievable! You don't need someone like that in your life. You may be a heavy debater yourself but I doubt you used the type of language he was imposing on you. I hope the next one is a catch! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Someone has recently done a survey to find out the most important elemants for married couples to remain together for a long time. As it turned out, communication is an essential element among those who have stayed together for 10-15 years. However, for those who have remained with each other for 20, 30, or even 40+ years, respect is the by far most important thing. Second this. I'm a lot more liberal than my wife, and our communication has certainly sucked at times, but through thick and thin there has always been quite a bit of mutual respect. We've had our ups and downs, but we celebrated 34 years of marriage yesterday. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Hmm. That's tough. I'm liberal too and I would 10000% break up with someone who had vastly different political views than me, because (like you) I think they are so representative of your values and your ability to synthesize information and re-assess your views. However, I'm not sure that a difference on ONE issue would be a dealbreaker. Granted I'm not Jewish, so maybe this is a really big deal in your life... I care about the peace process, but it doesn't really come up in my day to day life. So I think I would try to agree that we just don't discuss that one issue, and see if you can still love and respect each other when it is an off-limits topic. Another thing to think about... I don't know if you want to marry a Jewish guy, but it might be hard to find one who doesn't have strong pro-Israel views. That's been my experience with otherwise-reasonable and liberal Jewish friends of mine. Edit: WOW, good riddance! What a mean poopy face (loveshack doesn't approve of my preferred terms). Edited December 21, 2017 by Birdies 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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