Friend vs Emotional Affair

[dovebrandy1]

How do you differentiate between a close opposite sex friend and an emotional affair?

 

Have a long distance friend. We have only met once, but have become extremely close over the past few months. We talk almost daily and text often.

 

No communication has every been flirty or sexual. Both our spouses know we are friends.

 

However, when we talk our talks vary between intense laughter and some deep emotional conversations. He is happy in his marriage, but he has a lot of weight on his shoulders as he is both a husband and caregiver to his wife.

 

He had a rough childhood, which he's been very open with me about. He often tells me he feels he is able to talk to me more openly and freely than anyone else. He admits he may say too much at times, but he just feels so comfortable with me.

 

I'm a pretty friendly, outgoing person, so I love making new friends. However, opening up the real me to anyone is extremely difficult. Hence I have very few close friends. Actually since I lost my best friend a few years ago, I don't have any friends I would consider close friends. Although I'm still not completely there, I've gotten to the point I'm starting to really open up and let this guy friend in.

 

Like I said, our spouses know we are friends, although doubt either know the true extent of how much or what we discuss. Our chats are about anything and EVERYTHING.

 

The other part is neither one of our marriages is exactly super strong. As I stated, there has never been any talk about anything sexual or flirty. We have not professed any kind of feelings other than friendship. Yet, we both often make a point of saying how much our friendship means to each other.

 

What are the warning signs to look out for to ensure we do not cross any boundries? I don't want to lose the first friend I've been able to make in a long time, but I also don't want either of us to experience any heartache by sliding into inappropriate territory under the guise of friendship.

 

Input greatly appreciated.

[carhill]

How do you differentiate between a close opposite sex friend and an emotional affair?

 

Easy. Whatever behaviors and words are performed are performed in front of a partner or spouse and, if they are good to go, good to go.

 

In your case, the interaction is mostly electronic. Met once. Spouses around for that? Is your correspondence open and conspicuous? Are your devices encrypted and protected and no one else has access? Just some questions to ponder.

[dovebrandy1]

The majority of our interactions are via the phone. We talk at least once a day during the week. Calls last from 20 minutes up to an hour. We text some in the evenings. My husband knows my phone password and I've never deleted anything. We email occasionally. Those are on my phone as well. My husband trusts me, as I him, so even though we have each other's passwords we never look at the other's phones.

 

As far as our spouses hearing our talks, it depends. We have had some talks about where we are in our marriages that I doubt either one of our spouses would appreciate us sharing with someone else. However, I would have the same combos with a close female friend if I had one. It's more than I want an outside perspective.

[LivingWaterPlease]

How do you differentiate between a close opposite sex friend and an emotional affair?

 

Have a long distance friend. We have only met once, but have become extremely close over the past few months. We talk almost daily and text often.

 

No communication has every been flirty or sexual. Both our spouses know we are friends.

 

However, when we talk our talks vary between intense laughter and some deep emotional conversations. He is happy in his marriage, but he has a lot of weight on his shoulders as he is both a husband and caregiver to his wife.

 

He had a rough childhood, which he's been very open with me about. He often tells me he feels he is able to talk to me more openly and freely than anyone[/b] else. He admits he may say too much at times, but he just feels so comfortable with me.

 

I'm a pretty friendly, outgoing person, so I love making new friends. However, opening up the real me to anyone is extremely difficult. Hence I have very few close friends. Actually since I lost my best friend a few years ago, I don't have any friends I would consider close friends. Although I'm still not completely there, I've gotten to the point I'm starting to really open up and let this guy friend in.

 

Like I said, our spouses know we are friends, although doubt either know the true extent of how much or what we discuss. Our chats are about anything and EVERYTHING.

 

The other part is neither one of our marriages is exactly super strong. As I stated, there has never been any talk about anything sexual or flirty. We have not professed any kind of feelings other than friendship. Yet, we both often make a point of saying how much our friendship means to each other.

 

What are the warning signs to look out for to ensure we do not cross any boundries? I don't want to lose the first friend I've been able to make in a long time, but I also don't want either of us to experience any heartache by sliding into inappropriate territory under the guise of friendship.

 

Input greatly appreciated.

 

I bolded red flags in the above.

 

If you're not in an emotional affair at this point you're at least phone dating, imo.

[carhill]

So, OP, if you had no sexual interest in men, like if a lesbian, and you were living with your wife and had this male friend you were interacting with at this same level, what do you think? Just throwing that out there.

 

IMO, it boils down to behavior your committed partner or spouse feels is inappropriate in your relationships or marriage. You may not feel it's inappropriate; I may not. It's the spouse/partner which matters here. They decide. If you don't agree and no compromise can be reached, well they call it irreconcilable differences in no-fault states.

 

Here's a tip if you want to maintain boundaries. Be a friend of the marriage. Show interest in their spouse and include the spouse in interactions. See how doing that flows into the dynamic. The response will usually tell you everything you want to know about describing the dynamic as a friend versus EA.

[dovebrandy1]

I dont think either of us would mind going out to dinner with our spouses involved. With that sale, some of the interests we share are ones our spouses do not, so we would like to hang out just us as well. I've even mentioned to my husband if said friend was ever in town we planned on going to do something together. Husband was fine with that. Seeing how we live 1500 miles apart though, our plans to be in the same town anytime soon are not currently in the works. I do plan to be within a few hours of him when I go on a business trip this summer. My husband inquired if we would get together for a mutual hobby. I responder that may be a good idea, but I would be pretty booked with work. Husband had no issue and said I should make sure to include a little fun time while I'm there and it was great I had at least one friend I could hang out with.

 

I should note I've had close male friends throughout my entire marriage. They have never been an issue for my husband and nothing inappropriate has ever happened. The thing with this one is, I've never had a guy be this open with me before. He opens up to me in ways most guys do not open up to anyone. Then again, maybe he sees me as some kind of love distance therapist!

[Ajax]

The other part is neither one of our marriages is exactly super strong. As I stated, there has never been any talk about anything sexual or flirty. We have not professed any kind of feelings other than friendship. Yet, we both often make a point of saying how much our friendship means to each other.

 

 

Why isn't your marriage "super strong" and what would it take to strengthen it?

[dovebrandy1]

We married young, for all the wrong reasons. We're a great partnership, and have made the best out of a bad situation. We've never been on the same page romantically nor emotionally. At this point, over 22 years in, I do not see that changing. My husband and I are both content with the relationship we have.

[carhill]

I had to laugh recently when playing the game so well one MW thought I was gay. I mean I've known her, what a couple decades and she even knew my wife. I simply played the eunuch friend card to the hilt. It was hilarious. After a few drinks, when she said that, I did a sweeping motion and 'oh, kiss me Scarlet!' (Gone with the Wind). What fun. Anyway, she tells me she loves me in front of her H and he's cool with that. Still, oh my, hottie and if she wasn't married 30 years, eh, I'm not that gay

 

Point is, OP, men can be complex and, come down to it, any of us with a modicum of testosterone flowing through us, yeah, you know what we want. We may box it up in a nice package with a friendly bow on top but don't kid yourself. Up to you. Is this guy an anomaly? OK.

[somanymistakes]

In cases like this, the boundaries between friendship and emotional affairs are legitimately fuzzy. There isn't going to be a clear-cut answer at this stage. You might be fine. You might not be. You might be fine now and yet run into trouble in the future.

 

Some things to consider:

 

Have you ever fantasized about what it would be like if you were in a relationship with him and not your husband?

 

Have you and he ever talked about what it would be like if you were in a relationship together?

 

If you DID flirt with him or suggest an affair, do you think he'd go for it? Or vice versa? Would you be flattered or shocked?

 

 

If you're concerned that your friendship may be a bit too intense, then try to push back a little bit on the deep personal parts. If you're tempted to tell him things that you wouldn't like your spouse to know about, or he wants to tell you the same, realise that it's perhaps not the best idea and keep your friendship in safer territory.

[Ronni_W]

How do you differentiate between a close opposite sex friend and an emotional affair?

dovebrandy1,

 

A long time ago, someone offered to me that if it was something that I felt perfectly happy to share with my spouse/partner, then it did not cross any lines.

 

When you start to feel that you want or need to withhold, for the purpose of 'protecting' or 'sheltering' yourself and/or your spouse/partner from any real or potential negative consequences or 'fall-out' -- then you know you are on the wrong side of the highest intentions and desires of your wedding vows/relationship promises.

 

It is you, personally, who gets to make this determination. You will and you do know, all by yourself and for yourself. You don't need any external input/validation.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Dovebrandy, I have just one question for you. Why did you think it necessary to come to a forum like this one and pose a question like yours? You have given every reason as to why your friendship with this guy is completely above board and so that should be good enough for you yourself. Why ask the question unless at some deep level you know you've crossed a red line and every thing is not hunky dory. Your husband may be trusting of you or maybe he has lost interest and is waiting for you to have an affair so that he can call it a day on your marriage. After all you did say your marriage was not very strong and so this aspect would also be well known to your husband.

 

Livingwaterplease, highlighted all the red flags in your OP. I think those are very valid. As an adult and a spouse you should have your own internal boundaries and should know when you are breaching these. I would bet my bottom dollar that if you were to meet up with this friend of yours then in your husband's words you would end up having a 'little fun' with him. After that only the Lord knows what's in store for you and your marriage. Warm wishes.

[GoldenR]

If there's anything youre saying to your "friend" that you wouldn't want your H to know about, then you're in an emotional affair.

 

As far as you saying that both marriages are not super strong, this is one of the first steps one takes in an A. You convince yourself that both marriages are not good marriages. It progresses from there.

[road]

If there's anything youre saying to your "friend" that you wouldn't want your H to know about, then you're in an emotional affair.

 

As far as you saying that both marriages are not super strong, this is one of the first steps one takes in an A. You convince yourself that both marriages are not good marriages. It progresses from there.

 

Add to that if you are keeping what you are telling you OM

a secret from your BH you are having an affair.

 

And, if you are hiding all of this quality time spent with your

OM from your BH you are having an affair.

 

Telling and things with the OM first and or excluding your BH

you are having an affair.

[road]

How do you differentiate between a close opposite sex friend and an emotional affair?

 

Have a long distance friend. We have only met once, but have become extremely close over the past few months. We talk almost daily and text often.

 

No communication has every been flirty or sexual. Both our spouses know we are friends.

 

However, when we talk our talks vary between intense laughter and some deep emotional conversations. He is happy in his marriage, but he has a lot of weight on his shoulders as he is both a husband and caregiver to his wife.

 

He had a rough childhood, which he's been very open with me about. He often tells me he feels he is able to talk to me more openly and freely than anyone else. He admits he may say too much at times, but he just feels so comfortable with me.

 

I'm a pretty friendly, outgoing person, so I love making new friends. However, opening up the real me to anyone is extremely difficult. Hence I have very few close friends. Actually since I lost my best friend a few years ago, I don't have any friends I would consider close friends. Although I'm still not completely there, I've gotten to the point I'm starting to really open up and let this guy friend in.

 

Like I said, our spouses know we are friends, although doubt either know the true extent of how much or what we discuss. Our chats are about anything and EVERYTHING.

 

The other part is neither one of our marriages is exactly super strong. As I stated, there has never been any talk about anything sexual or flirty. We have not professed any kind of feelings other than friendship. Yet, we both often make a point of saying how much our friendship means to each other.

 

What are the warning signs to look out for to ensure we do not cross any boundries? I don't want to lose the first friend I've been able to make in a long time, but I also don't want either of us to experience any heartache by sliding into inappropriate territory under the guise of friendship.

 

Input greatly appreciated.

 

He is using the friend angle to get close to you to start an

affair.

 

He is slowly working you across the line from a girl friend

to a girlfriend.

 

This man knows how to set the bait very skillfully. Getting you

to admit your marriage is weak. You just showed him that you

are ripe for the picking to cheat without him having to ask you

to cheat.

 

He admitted the same to let you know that he is ripe to have

an affair without saying so. Planting the seed as he works

to develop you having a close enough emotional bond for

you to change your feelings of friendship for him to affair

partner.

 

I am sorry he needs friends he should be finding them in his

town, unless he wants the wrong kind of friendship. A red

flag that something is wrong that he cannot find local friends.

 

Your gut is telling you something stinks in ice. This is why

you have posted here.

[merrmeade]

The fact that you have this question is a reason to stop the friendship. You could also stop the marriage. But your best friend and confidante should be your husband. Once this guy's gone to #1 for your deepest, most meaningful emotions and thoughts, it's called an emotional affair. Cut it and shift these conversations to your husband. If it's not satisfying, go to counseling together.

[xenawarriorprincess]

We talk at least once a day during the week. Calls last from 20 minutes up to an hour. We text some in the evenings.

 

dovebrandy1,

 

I don’t talk to anyone that much! Even my best girlfriends and I chat 3 times a week max because we all have our own lives and our own families/priorities to attend to. The only person I chat with this frequently with is my husband, so IMHO, the frequency with which you are chatting with this guy and the connection with which you are both feeling is a HUGE red flag, and I think you already sense that since you are questioning the boundaries.

[carhill]

Yeah, IMO that level of communication frequency, and depth, begins to invade 'surrogate spouse' territory. With the women, MW's in my case, the friend of the marriage thing or seeking to include their spouse tended to blow that up and they'd go dark on me, which I came to understand over time meant they moved on to another portal for their stuff. Plenty of guys who don't mind getting into a married woman's pants will put up with some talk-talk to get there. In general, men don't relish being a receptacle for women's stuff if they're not sleeping with them and even then it's 'hey, go talk to a girlfriend, sheesh'. He's got important stuff to do like drinking beer and watching bowl games (right now)

[dovebrandy1]

Thank you all for your candid responses.

 

Yes, I guess I do feel we are on the cusp of entering dangerous territory.

 

Then again, as I mentioned earlier, maybe he just sees me as more a long distance therapist. Since we are far apart, with no plans to meet anytime soon, there is a safety net there.

 

He is complimentary of my work. He she never made any comments that would lead me to believe he feels anything for me romantically or wants an affair in any form. Yes, we discuss certain bad parts of our marriages, but never once has that lead to a discussion about us being anything.

 

I enjoy the friendship. Everything to this point has been above board. I would have no problems with my husband reading any texts. Yes, they may be frequent, or after business hours, but there is nothing in them I would hide from my husband.

 

The main thing is I've always had close male friends. They have less drama and relate to me better since I prefer talking about music and sports. The closest friends in my life has always been men. The difference this time is the amount of info. he shares. I know so much about his childhood, his rough spots in life, his children, his work frustrations, his plans for the future, and the areas of regret he has for the plans he had which he was never able to pursue. A male being this open, about his real self is new territory. Yet, with everything he has told me he has never brought up us being together, never a mention of any attraction to me, never a mention of me being in his future. Hence the therapist POV on my side.

 

In the end, I do find myself being drawn to him. There are things he shares with me where I realize those characteristics are ones I really wish my husband had. The things he finds enjoyable to do are things I've begged my husband for over the years, yet have never been able to convince him to do. The relationship he has with his children is the relationship I want for my husband and children, yet as much as I try to facilitate a better relationship my husband is mostly aloud with our children. He is a great provider, but the emotionally support is not there.

 

In the end, I believe my friend only sees me as a friend (or therapist), but sadly I'm getting sucked in to uncharted waters. I don't want to lose a friend, but I also dont want to end up with one-sided, unrequited "love" for someone who trusts me enough to open up to so deeply. The fact this is all long distance via phone calls and electronics makes it even more complicated. I'm in my 40s...falling in love virtually is outside my comprehension.

 

Thanks again for all the comments and insight. Very much appreciated.

[xenawarriorprincess]

we both often make a point of saying how much our friendship means to each other.

 

dovebrandy1,

 

Another thing that caught my attention was the quote above. I know that every friendship dynamic is different, but even in my closest friendships, we don’t often tell each other how much our friendship means to us. We know that we are close and that we are best gal-pals, but there is no need for us to tell each other how much we mean to one another. This is also IMO a red flag. Do you often tell your other close friends (female) that your friendship means the world to you? Just thought I’d put that out there…..

[carhill]

I remember back in the day a MW would call me up (landlines back then) to chat after her H and kids went to bed. I mean really late at night. Friend? Heh, she knew I was single and had rules so it was easy to play that and get whatever fix she needed. Of course back then I was all-in as an ignorant guy and 'therapist' for her horrible marriage to an abusive alcoholic

 

In cruel irony, many years later, maybe ten, I was dating a lady, actually the first sexual LTR I'd had, and her daughter's best friend and the friend's mom stopped by to pick her up and, well, the mom and I kinda just stared at each other. Yup The girls were teenagers at that point and I hadn't seen the daughter since she was two. Friend? From her stare, eh, nah.

 

Interesting world.

[elaine567]

Thank you all for your candid responses.

 

Yes, I guess I do feel we are on the cusp of entering dangerous territory.

 

No, you are well past the cusp.

[LivingWaterPlease]

 

I should note I've had close male friends throughout my entire marriage. They have never been an issue for my husband and nothing inappropriate has ever happened. The thing with this one is, I've never had a guy be this open with me before. He opens up to me in ways most guys do not open up to anyone. Then again, maybe he sees me as some kind of love distance therapist!

 

Seems to me you're stating in the bolded you've had lots of male friends throughout your marriage but this one is different.

 

The above italicized (but not bolded, the last sentence) seems to indicate you're eager to find out if he has more than friendship feelings or just sees you platonically. So, you are mulling over his feelings, or lack thereof, for you. This could be a sign your own feelings for him are more out of control that you are admitting to yourself, which, oops! You confide in the below bolded.

 

Then below that in the next paragraph you're back to trying to figure out how he feels about you.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you have feelings for him that you're afraid to face. To me, it's glaring. Given your original post and now these. Seems to me you "like" him and are wondering if he likes you back. You are really analyzing the status of his interest in you. Ime, when a person does this it's because he/she has developed an interest as more than friends in another.

 

Also, you are trying to convince yourself this friendship is safe. Because this forum is to support you I have to say, this friendship is not safe for you and on some level you may know it.

 

Further on down the below post: An entire paragraph describing how he is a better with you than your husband is in several different ways. And how he is a better father than your husband is.

 

Next paragraph and next to the last you're back to analyzing his feelings for you and concluding they may just be platonic.

 

I don't believe this is the way a woman writes about a man she has no romantic interest in. Imo, you're having an emotional affair with this guy and wondering if he feels the same about you.

 

 

 

 

Thank you all for your candid responses.

 

Yes, I guess I do feel we are on the cusp of entering dangerous territory.

 

Then again, as I mentioned earlier, maybe he just sees me as more a long distance therapist. Since we are far apart, with no plans to meet anytime soon, there is a safety net there.

 

He is complimentary of my work. He she never made any comments that would lead me to believe he feels anything for me romantically or wants an affair in any form. Yes, we discuss certain bad parts of our marriages, but never once has that lead to a discussion about us being anything.

 

I enjoy the friendship. Everything to this point has been above board. I would have no problems with my husband reading any texts. Yes, they may be frequent, or after business hours, but there is nothing in them I would hide from my husband.

 

The main thing is I've always had close male friends. They have less drama and relate to me better since I prefer talking about music and sports. The closest friends in my life has always been men. The difference this time is the amount of info. he shares. I know so much about his childhood, his rough spots in life, his children, his work frustrations, his plans for the future, and the areas of regret he has for the plans he had which he was never able to pursue. A male being this open, about his real self is new territory. Yet, with everything he has told me he has never brought up us being together, never a mention of any attraction to me, never a mention of me being in his future. Hence the therapist POV on my side.

 

In the end, I do find myself being drawn to him. There are things he shares with me where I realize those characteristics are ones I really wish my husband had. The things he finds enjoyable to do are things I've begged my husband for over the years, yet have never been able to convince him to do. The relationship he has with his children is the relationship I want for my husband and children, yet as much as I try to facilitate a better relationship my husband is mostly aloud with our children. He is a great provider, but the emotionally support is not there.

 

In the end, I believe my friend only sees me as a friend (or therapist), but sadly I'm getting sucked in to uncharted waters. I don't want to lose a friend, but I also dont want to end up with one-sided, unrequited "love" for someone who trusts me enough to open up to so deeply. The fact this is all long distance via phone calls and electronics makes it even more complicated. I'm in my 40s...falling in love virtually is outside my comprehension.

 

Thanks again for all the comments and insight. Very much appreciated.

[norudder]

Even more than what is being talked about is how you feel and react to it. Would the same conversations with a girl friend have you wishing your husband was more like her or doing the things she did with her kids? Like the above poster said, doesn't sound like your thinking is platonic.

 

Also, be careful about reading into how "special" you and this friendship really are to him. Not cynical but realistic.

My exmm opened up to me about his bad childhood, it was the first time a man was "vulnerable" with me, he let me know how much that meant to him etc etc. He shared many of the same memories and thoughts and important songs/quotes with others too. His bad childhood imo made him need lots of validation. Not an excuse, just possible explanation. Might not be the same, but something to consider. Would your conversations mean as much to you if you knew he had similar with others? (Like his W, who he should be imo). I think that matters.

 

If any friend of mine male or female needed that much time to talk or "emotionally process" I would probably refer them to an actual therapist. It would be a burden there are few people I would be emotionally invested in enough to bear without getting overwhelmed, ie spouse, sister, parent, best friend. And I wouldn't want to put my friends in that situation either. What is *your* level of investment and is it realistically appropriate to his role in your daily life and in the scope of the terms you and your H have for your relationship.

[merrmeade]

The majority of our interactions are via the phone. We talk at least once a day during the week. Calls last from 20 minutes up to an hour. We text some in the evenings. My husband knows my phone password and I've never deleted anything. We email occasionally. Those are on my phone as well. My husband trusts me, as I him, so even though we have each other's passwords we never look at the other's phones.

 

As far as our spouses hearing our talks, it depends. We have had some talks about where we are in our marriages that I doubt either one of our spouses would appreciate us sharing with someone else. ...

We talk at least once a day during the week. Calls last from 20 minutes up to an hour. We text some in the evenings.

I finally have a use for my obsessive collection of phone data from my husband's EA with my sister-in-law, brother's wife; we trusted them for a long time. I think it started like yours—sharing personal stories, answering a lot of questions about each other. They never shared with their spouses the amount of time they spent talking or the nature of their feelings, even in the beginning stages. If asked, they always had an excuse because of my brother's massive health problems at the time. Later, she told me this was because she knew I had a problem with the idea of opposite-sex friendships.

 

The ‘friendship’ was also long distance, on the phone mostly. It took two years to get physical. Then, they decided they liked being “mostly just friends” better and tried to backtrack. It sounds like I'm talking about 12-year-olds, but they were fully committed to this notion. They believed they could just discount the physical part as nothing more than "really stupid" accidents because they'd learned their lesson. Actually he wasn't so convinced. Within minutes of my confrontation (I actually fibbed and told him she'd confessed to me), he dropped the pretend talk and went straight to "wrong." She never did.

 

So the data: I calculated 826 total calls in 11 months—average: 75 / mo. It was a massive shock. I’d had no idea. I also collected emails and was crushed by the tenderness, longing, openness and deep, deep appreciation and support they shared—a tenderness, longing, openness and appreciation I did not know. It was so devastating. Even without the physical part, she was getting the best part of him and giving him the best part of herself.

 

Read this message I wrote him a week or two after our D-day. He’d started trying to say again it was 98% friendship. He said later I was 100% right and apologized.

Wait a minute. You did it again: "We were just friends - mostly," you said this morning. WTF! You can still say this to me - now? You still think this?

 

Let's have a little review:

If [bro] and I were not part of it 100%, it was 100% wrong. Period.

 

Anything you had to hide from anyone, any question you could not answer about where, when, how much or how you saw each other or talked to each other - if you evaded, avoided or omitted, it was wrong. 100% wrong.

 

Your need to evade, avoid, omit? Or worse, saying you evaded, etc. because I and others would be "uncomfortable" with it? This was your own signal that it was wrong which you both chose to ignore.

 

Even if you think you can justify having an opposite-sex friendship outside of your marriage (legitimized because you called yourselves ' family ' ), what about the other part? The leftover after "mostly"? That part - however itty bitty - cancels out the "mostly" and does so 100%. Which is why prudent people have boundaries. Social taboos. Rules. Mores. Norms. No one is above them. Circumstances do not change this. There can be no "mostly."

…

Do me this favor at least: Try to remember not to insult me again by using the word "friend" in relation to your history with her - ever. That was the wrong answer in June. It was the wrong answer today. It will always be the wrong answer.