The Saga Continues

[Confused48]

I think the difference is that I saw this as a potential real relationship if we talked about it, tried to do things the right way, whatever. It took some time to become clear to me that where I saw a possible future he just saw something to make his boring married life less boring (...and less married..) I think this is quite commonly the case with women in these situations, and the same with men. The women see love and a relationship, the men see cake. (In fairness, there are plenty of female cake eaters too)

 

True, very true.

 

 

I don't intend to vilify him. I think he's really beautiful, clever and funny...

 

Isn't this a bit like the neighbors and friend of a serial killer, after they hear about the offender they say, "He was a really great guy, aside from all the murders."

 

 

 

Also, posted in my original thread are a lot of the reasons why I think I let this happen. Things like resentment, feeling that I cannot say no to sex in my relationship, feeling like an object, poor communication, lack of having my needs met despite continually clearly spelling them out.

 

Are your clearly stated needs reasonable?

 

Would a third party say they are?

 

Is he able to meet those needs but won't?

 

Did you tell him you would leave him if he won't?

 

Can you not leave him without a soft landing?

[BourneWicked]

Are your clearly stated needs reasonable? Would a third party say they are?

 

- non-sexual touch from time to time

- basic communication about what's happening/where he is at/when he will be home

 

 

Is he able to meet those needs but won't?

 

When I've told him "I want a kiss, or a hug, not to be groped when you walk in the door," he's said things like, "I can't. That's not me, etc". It does seem he's been working on this, but literally Friday when he got home he went for a crotch grab like immediately. I threw my hands up and walked away and he said "wait, let me try again!" It's kind of his personality (which I mostly like) but that he doesn't take my needs seriously, or almost likes to get a rise out of me.

 

Did you tell him you would leave him if he won't?

No...

 

Can you not leave him without a soft landing?

I would struggle. It's more for my child that I feel resigned to this relationship. Not bad enough to leave, not good enough to stay. Probably I'm being melodramatic...

 

Seriously, I feel like 90% of our conversation (or his commentary, directed at me) is sex or innuendo-based. Sometimes I'll say okay to sex just so I can have 20 minutes after where I feel like my body is my own before he starts up again. So I can see how easily I fell for someone who bothers to ask how my day was, or has genuine conversations with me. I didn't know I could communicate so easily with someone of the opposite sex.

 

I do try to change my perception; my SO really does love me, and his constant flirtations and innuendos are his way of saying that. Ugh. I've just been doing a lot of thinking.

[DKT3]

Are your clearly stated needs reasonable? Would a third party say they are?

 

- non-sexual touch from time to time

- basic communication about what's happening/where he is at/when he will be home

 

 

Is he able to meet those needs but won't?

 

When I've told him "I want a kiss, or a hug, not to be groped when you walk in the door," he's said things like, "I can't. That's not me, etc". It does seem he's been working on this, but literally Friday when he got home he went for a crotch grab like immediately. I threw my hands up and walked away and he said "wait, let me try again!" It's kind of his personality (which I mostly like) but that he doesn't take my needs seriously, or almost likes to get a rise out of me.

 

Did you tell him you would leave him if he won't?

No...

 

Can you not leave him without a soft landing?

I would struggle. It's more for my child that I feel resigned to this relationship. Not bad enough to leave, not good enough to stay. Probably I'm being melodramatic...

 

Seriously, I feel like 90% of our conversation (or his commentary, directed at me) is sex or innuendo-based. Sometimes I'll say okay to sex just so I can have 20 minutes after where I feel like my body is my own before he starts up again. So I can see how easily I fell for someone who bothers to ask how my day was, or has genuine conversations with me. I didn't know I could communicate so easily with someone of the opposite sex.

 

I do try to change my perception; my SO really does love me, and his constant flirtations and innuendos are his way of saying that. Ugh. I've just been doing a lot of thinking.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to have a guy that was all things? Since he doesn't exist all women must find a compromise, or find themselves in situations like this.

 

I've always been interested in what a woman in your situation actually (really honestly) thought about the relationship and partner prior to the interaction with the AP. You see once involved the perspective is changed to lubricate the guilt of having interest elsewhere.

[BourneWicked]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a guy that was all things? Since he doesn't exist all women must find a compromise, or find themselves in situations like this.

 

I've always been interested in what a woman in your situation actually (really honestly) thought about the relationship and partner prior to the interaction with the AP. You see once involved the perspective is changed to lubricate the guilt of having interest elsewhere.

 

I really don't think I'm trying to make myself feel better, or lubricate anything; I'm trying to decide if this relationship is salvageable go forward. For some time prior to the A, I wished he would go sleep with someone, anyone, to give me a break.

 

What you say may be the case sometimes, but I think it's the reverse for me... My heart and mind changed first, and my body followed. I think I feel pretty similar to prior... if anything, there's a certain clarity to the good of my relationship from the risks of almost losing it.

 

But if you happen to get ahold of a time machine, feel free to go back in time and quiz me. All I have is my memories and diaries to know that there was a festering discontentment for a long time that should have been a flag to me to guard my boundaries.

[DKT3]

I really don't think I'm trying to make myself feel better, or lubricate anything; I'm trying to decide if this relationship is salvageable go forward. For some time prior to the A, I wished he would go sleep with someone, anyone, to give me a break.

 

What you say may be the case sometimes, but I think it's the reverse for me... My heart and mind changed first, and my body followed. I think I feel pretty similar to prior... if anything, there's a certain clarity to the good of my relationship from the risks of almost losing it.

 

But if you happen to get ahold of a time machine, feel free to go back in time and quiz me. All I have is my memories and diaries to know that there was a festering discontentment for a long time that should have been a flag to me to guard my boundaries.

 

I'm saying this because your issue seems pretty minor. It a sense what you're complaining about is you have a partner who is extremely sexually attracted to you, and as you say you know he loves you.

 

Here is the thing, you've changed. Because, clearly his behavior is something you enjoyed or else you wouldn't have been with him, now it's an issue, now you're involved with someone else. 1+1 still =2.

 

Bare with me, when I was doing a man's group soon after finding out about my wife's affair, I met a man who for 15 years played poker twice a week. During this, his wife would use the time to do things she liked, hang out with friends and so on. Then she met someone, once her husband found out first thing she complained about was his poker nights, something she had encouraged him to do and enjoyed the time it allowed her to use on things she liked.

 

Most women are the primary caregiver for the relationship, so when they betray that relationship there is almost always justification, rewriting the history, or flat out delusional thinking.

 

We can only go on facts, before the affair you didn't leave, now your thinking about it, how can you say one hasn't influenced the other?

[imsosad]

Are your clearly stated needs reasonable? Would a third party say they are?

 

- non-sexual touch from time to time

- basic communication about what's happening/where he is at/when he will be home

 

 

Is he able to meet those needs but won't?

 

When I've told him "I want a kiss, or a hug, not to be groped when you walk in the door," he's said things like, "I can't. That's not me, etc". It does seem he's been working on this, but literally Friday when he got home he went for a crotch grab like immediately. I threw my hands up and walked away and he said "wait, let me try again!" It's kind of his personality (which I mostly like) but that he doesn't take my needs seriously, or almost likes to get a rise out of me.

 

Did you tell him you would leave him if he won't?

No...

 

Can you not leave him without a soft landing?

I would struggle. It's more for my child that I feel resigned to this relationship. Not bad enough to leave, not good enough to stay. Probably I'm being melodramatic...

 

Seriously, I feel like 90% of our conversation (or his commentary, directed at me) is sex or innuendo-based. Sometimes I'll say okay to sex just so I can have 20 minutes after where I feel like my body is my own before he starts up again. So I can see how easily I fell for someone who bothers to ask how my day was, or has genuine conversations with me. I didn't know I could communicate so easily with someone of the opposite sex.

 

I do try to change my perception; my SO really does love me, and his constant flirtations and innuendos are his way of saying that. Ugh. I've just been doing a lot of thinking.

 

The fact that someone had an affair does turn their spouses in to saints.

There are many ways to ruin,strain and betray in a marriage.

Often on this board the SO can be a violent, abusive gambling addict, but many will still say that infidelity is worse. I am not saying that we should try to justifiy infidelity but that is not the only damaging act a spouse can do in a marriage and arguably, not neccesarily the worst.

You describe a very disturbing atmosphere in your relationship. I am sure your SO loves you, but there is also a question of what that love means to you and how you awant to be loved. Loving you is not a green light to groping, for instance. Love isn't an all clear on everything and the fact that you cheated (wrong, no doubt) doesn't mean that you should accept this dynamic. I suggest you google sexual aversion and let your partner read it. It might illuminate some issues.

Also,don't agree to continue the dynamic which contributed to you being vulnerable to an affair. Address it.

Personally, I would not be able to live with a constant demand for sex.

Suppose I like coffee. Would it seem normal to anyone that I ask my partner to make me coffee all the time? To turn wvery conversation to coffee? To sulk when he doesn't feel like making a cup? To make him feel like he can't say honey, no to making me a cup because it might seriously create a problem in our marraige?

Loving you and being married does not mean complete access and control over your body and sexuality.

things can get better for you, but you have to step up and face issues in your life. I know you can! Good luck.

[imsosad]

I'm saying this because your issue seems pretty minor. It a sense what you're complaining about is you have a partner who is extremely sexually attracted to you, and as you say you know he loves you.

 

Here is the thing, you've changed. Because, clearly his behavior is something you enjoyed or else you wouldn't have been with him, now it's an issue, now you're involved with someone else. 1+1 still =2.

 

Bare with me, when I was doing a man's group soon after finding out about my wife's affair, I met a man who for 15 years played poker twice a week. During this, his wife would use the time to do things she liked, hang out with friends and so on. Then she met someone, once her husband found out first thing she complained about was his poker nights, something she had encouraged him to do and enjoyed the time it allowed her to use on things she liked.

 

Most women are the primary caregiver for the relationship, so when they betray that relationship there is almost always justification, rewriting the history, or flat out delusional thinking.

 

We can only go on facts, before the affair you didn't leave, now your thinking about it, how can you say one hasn't influenced the other?

 

It is not fair to belittle her feelings like that.

She is describing a very major issue- her husband is not respecting her personal space, body or sexuality.

[DKT3]

It is not fair to belittle her feelings like that.

She is describing a very major issue- her husband is not respecting her personal space, body or sexuality.

 

Not at all what I'm doing, what I am doing is.pointing out how being involved with someone else can magnify your partners shortcomings.

 

Listen, making excuses is easy....but let's get real, you say she had sex with another man because she felt like a sex object in her relationship?

 

You know who else makes excuses? 95% of the people in prison. None of the excuses makes any of them less guilty

[imsosad]

Not at all what I'm doing, what I am doing is.pointing out how being involved with someone else can magnify your partners shortcomings.

 

Listen, making excuses is easy....but let's get real, you say she had sex with another man because she felt like a sex object in her relationship?

 

You know who else makes excuses? 95% of the people in prison. None of the excuses makes any of them less guilty

That is not what I am saying.

I am saying that besides cheating, there are other ways to hurt your partner in a relationship. I am also saying that while infidelity is absolutely wrong, it dies not mean that the BS does everything right.

Regarding this specific thread, I do not want to speak fir the AP, but I think it was the MM's non sexual attention that drew her and that the dynamic in her marriage made her vulnerable. I am not justifying or making excuses.

Cheating is wrong.

Pressuring your partner in to having sex is also wrong.

Does one justify the other?

No.

This is my point: yes, she cheated and it's on her. The dynamic in the marriage still needs to change, hrr cheating does not justify him disregarding her needs.

[DKT3]

That is not what I am saying.

I am saying that besides cheating, there are other ways to hurt your partner in a relationship. I am also saying that while infidelity is absolutely wrong, it dies not mean that the BS does everything right.

Regarding this specific thread, I do not want to speak fir the AP, but I think it was the MM's non sexual attention that drew her and that the dynamic in her marriage made her vulnerable. I am not justifying or making excuses.

Cheating is wrong.

Pressuring your partner in to having sex is also wrong.

Does one justify the other?

No.

This is my point: yes, she cheated and it's on her. The dynamic in the marriage still needs to change, hrr cheating does not justify him disregarding her needs.

 

When you pay for.grapes you don't get steaks. Having her needs met? Really? So she is having sex with another man because her need to not have sex with her partner is unmet? It's completely irrational. No she had the affair because she was interested in another man.. everything else she is talking about is justification for that interest and the following behavior. None of which is resolving her situation. If her needs aren't being met then she should leave. She hasn't.

[harrybrown]

hope you find a way to get him out of your life.

 

you could tell his wife, if you feel like going to HR would be a problem.

[imsosad]

When you pay for.grapes you don't get steaks. Having her needs met? Really? So she is having sex with another man because her need to not have sex with her partner is unmet? It's completely irrational. No she had the affair because she was interested in another man.. everything else she is talking about is justification for that interest and the following behavior. None of which is resolving her situation. If her needs aren't being met then she should leave. She hasn't.

Come on,DKT3. That is not what I was saying either, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[BourneWicked]

When you pay for.grapes you don't get steaks. Having her needs met? Really? So she is having sex with another man because her need to not have sex with her partner is unmet? It's completely irrational. No she had the affair because she was interested in another man.. everything else she is talking about is justification for that interest and the following behavior. None of which is resolving her situation. If her needs aren't being met then she should leave. She hasn't.

 

It's my FEELINGS that are not being recognized or met DTK3. I can count the number of times I've had sex with AP on my hands. I would need a thousand bodies to count the number of times I've done it with my boyfriend.

 

This forum says "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" and I'm finding neither support nor discussion from you, so feel free to post elsewhere where others will get more value.

 

As you are without sin, feel free to continue casting stones. All I'm seeing from you is judgement.

 

I could say - you have no comprehension that women have feelings and not just sex organs, and that's why your wife cheated on you. 1+1 =2. But that would just be judgement from someone who doesn't know you.

 

"She needs to leave and she hasn't"

 

Yes, life is so simple. Thanks for clarifying for me.

[BourneWicked]

The fact that someone had an affair does turn their spouses in to saints.

There are many ways to ruin,strain and betray in a marriage.

Often on this board the SO can be a violent, abusive gambling addict, but many will still say that infidelity is worse. I am not saying that we should try to justifiy infidelity but that is not the only damaging act a spouse can do in a marriage and arguably, not neccesarily the worst.

You describe a very disturbing atmosphere in your relationship. I am sure your SO loves you, but there is also a question of what that love means to you and how you awant to be loved. Loving you is not a green light to groping, for instance. Love isn't an all clear on everything and the fact that you cheated (wrong, no doubt) doesn't mean that you should accept this dynamic. I suggest you google sexual aversion and let your partner read it. It might illuminate some issues.

Also,don't agree to continue the dynamic which contributed to you being vulnerable to an affair. Address it.

Personally, I would not be able to live with a constant demand for sex.

Suppose I like coffee. Would it seem normal to anyone that I ask my partner to make me coffee all the time? To turn wvery conversation to coffee? To sulk when he doesn't feel like making a cup? To make him feel like he can't say honey, no to making me a cup because it might seriously create a problem in our marraige?

Loving you and being married does not mean complete access and control over your body and sexuality.

things can get better for you, but you have to step up and face issues in your life. I know you can! Good luck.

 

YES - your coffee analogy is exactly it... I know this is partly a me problem, but it's partly a him problem. And I think it's to do with his own childhood issues with intimacy with an alcoholic mother. So I'm trying to navigate this. like I've literally buried my face in the pillow crying during sex and he's so into it that he doesn't notice. It feels like an addiction. Because of some of his proclivities I'm sure he watches porn, but I've never dug enough to know. I wish it would be enough to keep him satisfied, but it's not.

 

I've told this to girlfriends who have sex once a week, or sex once a month. And they claim they're envious, and they don't understand, because they've never had it pushed at them 7+ times a week. They've never had the entirety of their relationship and conversation with their SO be based around sex. I had one friend who understood, who was in a similar relationship in the past. Probably there is once a week where I take the initiative. I don't have the opportunity to even want it. There are times when I've said no, he keeps pushing, keeps pushing... I just give in to get a break eventually. And there are a couple times where I said no, and he basically forced it. And yeah, I know what that sounds like. So, I just give in not to rock the boat, even when it makes me sad or furious. I think his family and friends would be shocked to hear any of this

 

This is magnifying one problem. But this one problem is soul-crushing. Can I blame my A on this one problem? Nope... that's all me being insecure and not strong enough to know my own needs or boundaries.

 

The sex aversion stuff is interesting.. There's a comment above that I must have liked it to go along with it so long. But it was more that I thought a healthy relationship was constantly giving into whatever he wanted. At some point I realized it was okay that I have needs to, and I don't always have to always be ready and willing. Boundaries.

 

Strangely, in trying to make boundaries with the former AP I've been making boundaries at home, pushing back on the sex more, or at least telling him how I feel. "When you say X, our son is going to repeat that at school." Etc...

 

Anyway, it's going okay. Going for a run tonight, hopefully will help clear the head a little.

[DKT3]

It's my FEELINGS that are not being recognized or met DTK3. I can count the number of times I've had sex with AP on my hands. I would need a thousand bodies to count the number of times I've done it with my boyfriend.

 

This forum says "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner" and I'm finding neither support nor discussion from you, so feel free to post elsewhere where others will get more value.

 

As you are without sin, feel free to continue casting stones. All I'm seeing from you is judgement.

 

I could say - you have no comprehension that women have feelings and not just sex organs, and that's why your wife cheated on you. 1+1 =2. But that would just be judgement from someone who doesn't know you.

 

"She needs to leave and she hasn't"

 

Yes, life is so simple. Thanks for clarifying for me.

I believe you misunderstood me, I wasn't saying this, I was responding to the other poster who said you cheated because your partner wanted too much sex.

 

My only point is about trusting your feelings before and after your involvement with another man.

 

Oh, and I understand women being emotionally charged, however we are still with the ability to reason above emotions so all decisions still come down to choice.

 

Oh and I meant you were into your boyfriend at some point, I mean who has a relationship with someone they don't want to be in a relationship with in the beginning.

Edited January 22, 2018 by DKT3

[Taxed]

YES - your coffee analogy is exactly it... I know this is partly a me problem, but it's partly a him problem. And I think it's to do with his own childhood issues with intimacy with an alcoholic mother. So I'm trying to navigate this. like I've literally buried my face in the pillow crying during sex and he's so into it that he doesn't notice. It feels like an addiction. Because of some of his proclivities I'm sure he watches porn, but I've never dug enough to know. I wish it would be enough to keep him satisfied, but it's not.

 

I've told this to girlfriends who have sex once a week, or sex once a month. And they claim they're envious, and they don't understand, because they've never had it pushed at them 7+ times a week. They've never had the entirety of their relationship and conversation with their SO be based around sex. I had one friend who understood, who was in a similar relationship in the past. Probably there is once a week where I take the initiative. I don't have the opportunity to even want it. There are times when I've said no, he keeps pushing, keeps pushing... I just give in to get a break eventually. And there are a couple times where I said no, and he basically forced it. And yeah, I know what that sounds like. So, I just give in not to rock the boat, even when it makes me sad or furious. I think his family and friends would be shocked to hear any of this

 

This is magnifying one problem. But this one problem is soul-crushing. Can I blame my A on this one problem? Nope... that's all me being insecure and not strong enough to know my own needs or boundaries.

 

The sex aversion stuff is interesting.. There's a comment above that I must have liked it to go along with it so long. But it was more that I thought a healthy relationship was constantly giving into whatever he wanted. At some point I realized it was okay that I have needs to, and I don't always have to always be ready and willing. Boundaries.

 

Strangely, in trying to make boundaries with the former AP I've been making boundaries at home, pushing back on the sex more, or at least telling him how I feel. "When you say X, our son is going to repeat that at school." Etc...

 

Anyway, it's going okay. Going for a run tonight, hopefully will help clear the head a little.

 

Do you feel like you have a choice?

[BluesPower]

YES - your coffee analogy is exactly it... I know this is partly a me problem, but it's partly a him problem. And I think it's to do with his own childhood issues with intimacy with an alcoholic mother. So I'm trying to navigate this. like I've literally buried my face in the pillow crying during sex and he's so into it that he doesn't notice. It feels like an addiction. Because of some of his proclivities I'm sure he watches porn, but I've never dug enough to know. I wish it would be enough to keep him satisfied, but it's not.

 

I've told this to girlfriends who have sex once a week, or sex once a month. And they claim they're envious, and they don't understand, because they've never had it pushed at them 7+ times a week. They've never had the entirety of their relationship and conversation with their SO be based around sex. I had one friend who understood, who was in a similar relationship in the past. Probably there is once a week where I take the initiative. I don't have the opportunity to even want it. There are times when I've said no, he keeps pushing, keeps pushing... I just give in to get a break eventually. And there are a couple times where I said no, and he basically forced it. And yeah, I know what that sounds like. So, I just give in not to rock the boat, even when it makes me sad or furious. I think his family and friends would be shocked to hear any of this

 

This is magnifying one problem. But this one problem is soul-crushing. Can I blame my A on this one problem? Nope... that's all me being insecure and not strong enough to know my own needs or boundaries.

 

The sex aversion stuff is interesting.. There's a comment above that I must have liked it to go along with it so long. But it was more that I thought a healthy relationship was constantly giving into whatever he wanted. At some point I realized it was okay that I have needs to, and I don't always have to always be ready and willing. Boundaries.

 

Strangely, in trying to make boundaries with the former AP I've been making boundaries at home, pushing back on the sex more, or at least telling him how I feel. "When you say X, our son is going to repeat that at school." Etc...

 

Anyway, it's going okay. Going for a run tonight, hopefully will help clear the head a little.

 

Actually, a better question would be... Why did you not talk to him or end the relationship if he did not get the clue about sex?

 

And if you guys a not sexually compatible, why did you stay in the first place?

 

I think in some ways, the answers to these questions might give you more insight into why you got into the affair in the first place and why you stayed so long. Not to mention why it is so hard to stop.

 

Just saying...

[sandylee1]

Your BFs sex drive is too high for you. Some may describe him as a sex pest.

 

I'm sensing that you feel he's only interested in your body....which as a woman isn't really a nice feeling...despite what men may think.

 

The groping is something I find annoying too. I have said I'm not a piece of meat in the past after getting my backside groped.

 

I suggest you and your BF do the five love languages test.

[Taxed]

Am I the only one who is seriously disturbed by this:

 

So I'm trying to navigate this. like I've literally buried my face in the pillow crying during sex and he's so into it that he doesn't notice. It feels like an addiction.

 

BourneWicked, sorry, I am not trying to front you on this.

[WhatWait]

Are you scared if you say no to your boyfriend, he will leave you? It sounds like you want to not have sex with him, but have trouble saying no.

[imsosad]

Am I the only one who is seriously disturbed by this:

 

So I'm trying to navigate this. like I've literally buried my face in the pillow crying during sex and he's so into it that he doesn't notice. It feels like an addiction.

 

BourneWicked, sorry, I am not trying to front you on this.

 

I am very disturbed by this as well.

I feel like this is not an a common issue of differences of sex drive between spouses or a misunderstanding of how each of them wants to be courted and loved.

OP, this reads as a very unhealthy dynamic. Harmful.

Please consider entering therapy to work out what is happening.

[BourneWicked]

it's not scared of saying no... it gets pushed anyway. it's been better, I feel like I've been drawing lines, explaining myself and he's (mostly) listening. yeah it's messed up. a few things in my life are right now.

 

Like I get my hair done and he says "maybe I can try out your new hair tonight". WTF. You say it like you're gonna test drive a car. BUT when I reframe it because I don't like it, he will use my new proposed wording. Ha.

 

A day at a time for me here.