The Saga Continues

[darkbloom]

Even if he comes back and apologizes you still won’t feel better. He still didn’t choose you and it will still hurt.

[Grey Cloud]

 

Grey Cloud - I agree 100% about the new job. Can you speak more to when you left and he still pursued? I'm thinking I would change my phone/email and he would not be able to follow me. He's too scared to even call me anyway, which is another reason it feels like nothing at all. I'm sure, too, I'll still get that little dopamine hit when I see him in my email. Which, no matter what, is going to happen. But I will remind myself that I'm just like any other coworker, and not his wife. That's really all I need to say to myself.

 

.

 

Hi Bourne, in answer to your question - when xMM left work we agreed to go NC (well I pushed for that as he didn’t want to!). However I thought it was my only chance to get him out of my mind. I lasted for a month. During that time the withdrawal from seeing him at work every day to absolutely nothing was horrible. I had triggers everywhere and instead of remaining strong I caved. Of course he had left the door open by saying I could contact him at any stage.

 

After the initial reach out we were back in daily contact before we could even blink. After 3 months we met up one time and slept together. It’s such a slippery slope. I went from being resolute on complete NC to thinking something is better than nothing, and then being stupid enough to accept any breadcrumbs thrown my way. Another thing is that once things had calmed down for him with his wife at home (once he found another job), he relaxed again and was much more comfortable in continuing our so called “friendship” (albeit in secret!).

 

Then came the same old hot/cold, push/pull stuff. He would be either emailing me everyday or I wouldn’t hear from him at all. And sometimes if I emailed him he would be very rushed and kept saying how busy he was. He became forefront in my thoughts and the cycle continued. And this was without seeing him in person or even talking on the phone!!! It doesn’t take much when you are addicted!

 

After a long time of this insanity it became more and more apparent that I was thinking about him WAY more than he was about me. I was an afterthought. I was firmly kept in a box and only came out to play when it suited him. Someone to toy with when he needed an ego boost. I found I was stronger during the periods we weren’t in contact. And how quickly I became obsessed again when we were in contact!

 

I don’t think there is anyone on this forum who has regretted permanent NC. But plenty that have regretted breaking NC or trying to remain friends in LC. I thought there could be some kind of middle ground. But unfortunately there is no middle ground whatsoever!

 

I am so much stronger and more back to my normal self by staying well away and out of his life. However I am very much aware he is like a drug for me and I know (now) that I am not strong enough to handle even small doses. And more importantly nor do I want to anymore

 

That is why once you eventually leave your job, I caution you about what happens next.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Grey Cloud

[Taxed]

I work with EXMM as well and all I have to say is, that you have to be very strong and determined.

 

The cost-benefit may not be in our favour in the long run: it is very energy consuming to try to stay level headed and professional for a length of time. Actually I would say that the worst thing right now, for me personally, is, that everyone else thinks he is such A Great Guy. It feels lonely and isolating to be the only one "in the know". I try to stay away from social gatherings as much as possible for the same reason.

[freengreen]

Jah - I don't know your story, but I have the same fantasy...

 

Well, I used to open his fb page and think ‘ what was so special in him anyway’... but I would be back to open his profile again in a longer period of time... the lapse time is slowly getting longer and he is not that attractive anymore because the reality is creeping in and fantasy is moving out.

 

However, I hate to admit but I want him to apologise and then go. Just leave and we never meet, I am 100% game. It is never going to happen but I hate how he just moved on and I am so slow in this process. I hate how he just let me go when I had to, he was like ‘ Wanna go?.. oh ok’ thats that. How I wish I could be so heartless with these callous people just like they are to me.

 

OP, all those charming words have an evil agenda.... its like fish thinking the baits juicy. Dont see the bait, see the string attached to it. I have learned it, you shall too if you stick to NC long enuf. Good Luck.

[Poppy47]

Well, I used to open his fb page and think ‘ what was so special in him anyway’... but I would be back to open his profile again in a longer period of time... the lapse time is slowly getting longer and he is not that attractive anymore because the reality is creeping in and fantasy is moving out.

 

However, I hate to admit but I want him to apologise and then go. Just leave and we never meet, I am 100% game. It is never going to happen but I hate how he just moved on and I am so slow in this process. I hate how he just let me go when I had to, he was like ‘ Wanna go?.. oh ok’ thats that. How I wish I could be so heartless with these callous people just like they are to me.

 

OP, all those charming words have an evil agenda.... its like fish thinking the baits juicy. Dont see the bait, see the string attached to it. I have learned it, you shall too if you stick to NC long enuf. Good Luck.

 

YOu would help yourself a great deal if you blocked his FAceBook page. That way you can't see him unless you unblock. That takes a little time and maybe would give you a moment to reconsider your decision to look.

[Vivir]

BourneWicked, from what I can remember you and I had the same issue: we might've ended up being at least decent friends (or associates) of the married men we were involved with had we not become invovled with them in the first place. You continue to place very high value on his talk and interactions with you and others... he is personable, easy to get along with, lights up the room, etc. This is one of your hooks, and I am glad you're aware of it and its power.

 

You wrote, "I think I hurt him, but no more than he hurt me when he told me through his actions that I was good enough for sex talk, but not for anything else in his life. To a degree, I appreciate his honesty. Because when he came back creeping, I could have fallen again for his funny, clever sweetness if he'd put a dash more on the line than friendship."

 

I commend you for weighing his actions against his words. Actions tell the truth when our words do not.

 

You wrote, "I've made it clear I won't tolerate the flirtation - and if he does it again I will happily ask about his wife and/or tell him about my SO."

 

I think this is an amazing block/deflection if you can start doing it and keep doing it. If you can imagine that your SO is standing there with you during your interactions with this MM, or that your interactions are being recorded for all to see, maybe that can prompt you to shut the MM down, too. If it isn't work related, shut it down. Most of us can't be friends with our former affair partners... mostly because of the draw, the ease of falling back into toxic cycles... things that hurt us in the long run, as you already know.

 

You are remembering the good times, and you want to journal about the bad times... it might behoove you to write them line-by-line. The good and then the bad; I mean, for every good item you write, you must write one bad one. If you write five good ones, you have to write five bad ones. I wonder at which point you will run out of good ones and only be able to write bad ones or questionable ones...

 

You wrote, "the fact that he's less worried about losing his job than he is about losing his marriage can go on the list of piles of reasons why I need to enforce NC as best I can. I've firmly decided - if he wants to talk to me, he can call me. And he won't, because he's too scared his wife will find out which would be his final straw."

 

He must not be so afraid of his wife finding out anything since he continues to play with fire. I am unconvinced. Another thing you might try to deflect his bullisht is pulling out your phone and telling him that you would like to record the conversation. I find that saying this helps to stop lots of inappropriate talk at my workplace.

 

 

I think you're working on it, Bourne, the best that you know how. I can understand not taking extreme measures of going to HR. I would only do that under absolutely extreme circumstances.

 

And about tending to your fence... I've got some barbed wire I can send to you if you're interested.

[William]

Good evening,

 

I noted Robert handed out a couple of sanctions here so figured I'd stop by and take a look and I did add a link in the starting post to the thread starter's background thread for context rather than merging them and edited a couple of broken quotes.

 

Let's stay focused on the thread starter's content and definitely feel free to discuss other member's relationships in threads they begin on them. As always, keep things respectful. Thanks and have a good evening!

[freengreen]

YOu would help yourself a great deal if you blocked his FAceBook page. That way you can't see him unless you unblock. That takes a little time and maybe would give you a moment to reconsider your decision to look.

 

Yes,Poppy in first months I did block him but still the urge was strong so I just used to unblock so finally I decided to come out of FB myself. Since then, I can only see his profile pic and nothing else. So I can see just his face( that want to punch him in)...... I am hoping to be free of this anger soon , which is the only feeling lingering.

[BourneWicked]

Hi Bourne, in answer to your question - when xMM left work we agreed to go NC (well I pushed for that as he didn’t want to!). However I thought it was my only chance to get him out of my mind. I lasted for a month. During that time the withdrawal from seeing him at work every day to absolutely nothing was horrible. I had triggers everywhere and instead of remaining strong I caved. Of course he had left the door open by saying I could contact him at any stage.

 

After the initial reach out we were back in daily contact before we could even blink. After 3 months we met up one time and slept together. It’s such a slippery slope. I went from being resolute on complete NC to thinking something is better than nothing, and then being stupid enough to accept any breadcrumbs thrown my way. Another thing is that once things had calmed down for him with his wife at home (once he found another job), he relaxed again and was much more comfortable in continuing our so called “friendship” (albeit in secret!).

 

Then came the same old hot/cold, push/pull stuff. He would be either emailing me everyday or I wouldn’t hear from him at all. And sometimes if I emailed him he would be very rushed and kept saying how busy he was. He became forefront in my thoughts and the cycle continued. And this was without seeing him in person or even talking on the phone!!! It doesn’t take much when you are addicted!

 

After a long time of this insanity it became more and more apparent that I was thinking about him WAY more than he was about me. I was an afterthought. I was firmly kept in a box and only came out to play when it suited him. Someone to toy with when he needed an ego boost. I found I was stronger during the periods we weren’t in contact. And how quickly I became obsessed again when we were in contact!

 

I don’t think there is anyone on this forum who has regretted permanent NC. But plenty that have regretted breaking NC or trying to remain friends in LC. I thought there could be some kind of middle ground. But unfortunately there is no middle ground whatsoever!

 

I am so much stronger and more back to my normal self by staying well away and out of his life. However I am very much aware he is like a drug for me and I know (now) that I am not strong enough to handle even small doses. And more importantly nor do I want to anymore

 

That is why once you eventually leave your job, I caution you about what happens next.

 

Thanks Grey Cloud. So much good stuff in here. Exactly that - I'm to the point where NC feels better. Your hot and cold experience is spot on - just a couple messages here and there to keep me hooked. With him being gone for a span of time, I has this feeling of whew, it's finally over, and had mentally started cutting ties. He comes back, just friendly, I feel okay for a day. Then he hints at sex.

 

Give. me. a f***ng break.

 

Oh yeah, now that you're done with the holidays and all that great family time, all I can think about is how I want sex with someone I haven't seen nor barely heard from in weeks. Eff that noise.

 

I totally identify with being in a box. Uh - no thank you to that too. He claimed he didn't contact me more because I asked him not too. But that was some time ago, and he'd already busted that. So instead it was weak, sporadic flippant messages probably whenever he escaped his wife and family for two minutes.

 

I'm not sure why this finally flipped the switch. I think it was truly seeing the shape of the box around the amount of meaning I have in his life. Yeah, when he's at work, I'm a beautiful distraction. But when he's elsewhere, all he wants is a little touchstone to remind him that he's exactly as important and manly as he thinks he is, keeping two women tied to him. One in his work box, one in his home box. Men really do seem to compartmentalize much better than women.

 

Same thing too with him disappearing when dday - then just finding other ways to contact. Yes, I also thought, for the sake of working together, we can do friends. "Friends." He can... I can't. So we won't.

[BourneWicked]

I work with EXMM as well and all I have to say is, that you have to be very strong and determined.

 

The cost-benefit may not be in our favour in the long run: it is very energy consuming to try to stay level headed and professional for a length of time. Actually I would say that the worst thing right now, for me personally, is, that everyone else thinks he is such A Great Guy. It feels lonely and isolating to be the only one "in the know". I try to stay away from social gatherings as much as possible for the same reason.

 

Thanks Taxed. I don't know that the MM in my situation is so very horrible - but I do know he is a boundary pusher, and of course interested in cheating on his wife with coworkers (NBD). But yes, everyone looks for his opinion, buy in, etc, etc. So that would certainly be frustrating to be the only person who really knows what's behind the mask. The fact that he is far away is certainly in my favor; I don't think I could handle him in person. In fact, I don't know that I would be strong enough to break it off if I was regularly subjected to his physical presence. So kudos to you!

[BourneWicked]

BourneWicked, from what I can remember you and I had the same issue: we might've ended up being at least decent friends (or associates) of the married men we were involved with had we not become invovled with them in the first place. You continue to place very high value on his talk and interactions with you and others... he is personable, easy to get along with, lights up the room, etc. This is one of your hooks, and I am glad you're aware of it and its power.

 

You wrote, "I think I hurt him, but no more than he hurt me when he told me through his actions that I was good enough for sex talk, but not for anything else in his life. To a degree, I appreciate his honesty. Because when he came back creeping, I could have fallen again for his funny, clever sweetness if he'd put a dash more on the line than friendship."

 

I commend you for weighing his actions against his words. Actions tell the truth when our words do not.

 

You wrote, "I've made it clear I won't tolerate the flirtation - and if he does it again I will happily ask about his wife and/or tell him about my SO."

 

I think this is an amazing block/deflection if you can start doing it and keep doing it. If you can imagine that your SO is standing there with you during your interactions with this MM, or that your interactions are being recorded for all to see, maybe that can prompt you to shut the MM down, too. If it isn't work related, shut it down. Most of us can't be friends with our former affair partners... mostly because of the draw, the ease of falling back into toxic cycles... things that hurt us in the long run, as you already know.

 

You are remembering the good times, and you want to journal about the bad times... it might behoove you to write them line-by-line. The good and then the bad; I mean, for every good item you write, you must write one bad one. If you write five good ones, you have to write five bad ones. I wonder at which point you will run out of good ones and only be able to write bad ones or questionable ones...

 

You wrote, "the fact that he's less worried about losing his job than he is about losing his marriage can go on the list of piles of reasons why I need to enforce NC as best I can. I've firmly decided - if he wants to talk to me, he can call me. And he won't, because he's too scared his wife will find out which would be his final straw."

 

He must not be so afraid of his wife finding out anything since he continues to play with fire. I am unconvinced. Another thing you might try to deflect his bullisht is pulling out your phone and telling him that you would like to record the conversation. I find that saying this helps to stop lots of inappropriate talk at my workplace.

 

 

I think you're working on it, Bourne, the best that you know how. I can understand not taking extreme measures of going to HR. I would only do that under absolutely extreme circumstances.

 

And about tending to your fence... I've got some barbed wire I can send to you if you're interested.

 

 

HA - I'll take the offer of barbed wire, I'm going to need it. Hmm... that's funny what you say about him not being so scared about his wife finding out. Maybe he likes the attention of being caught and knowing he has two women who want him. Like, a little kid seeking attention because he feels ignored in his life. Also.. that was one thing I didn't think about until more recently. He disappeared Novemberish last year after a dday. A time I thought that it was over (one of many times I thought that) and he came waltzing back with a different form of contact. It bothers me that his wife might even know who I am (no idea if that's fact or not, never got much info as he'd disappeared and said a few vague things about it after) and he still persisted - but never bothered to tell me the outcome of that, how I was involved, etc,etc. But what I thought as done was just him working really hard to repair his marriage and focus on his wife - so he could get back to chasing me.

 

The journaling - yes. I think the one thing that I could put time after time is things like "hope to see you soon!" (We will not be seeing each other for a weekend, or a week) and "miss you!" (you miss me so much but you've made zero effort to do anything about it, other than send that message). There's so much of that - almost a short-term future-faking. I would lash back at these messages, and near the end he was making an active effort to make time to see me (at work).

 

Vivir, thank you for all the really great advice on what to do when the boundaries are pushed. Our messenger at work actually has a record feature, so I will ask him if he minds if I record his information for training purposes. Haaa...

 

I really do wish the best for him, but I cannot be any part of his life. That's what's best for me. At the end of the day, I think we were both two broken children inside whose issues from growing up spoke to each other and drew us together. This situation, although I would undo it, and never repeat it, has made me see myself, my life, and my desires so much clearer. Also - it's given me a window into people and their motivations deeper than I ever had before. Hopefully, eventually, I will be a better, stronger person for it.

 

Anyway, I'm going to spend my day with my family, planning a family trip, and visiting my mom. I'll try not to dread going back to work tomorrow. Appreciate the great advice and experience sharing here on LS

[Vivir]

So much great stuff in this thread!

 

I was fortunate in that my xMM found another job. I was absolutely devastated at the time but it was necessary. HOWEVER, being in different jobs doesn’t necessarily mean the contact will end. My xMM and I still remained in LC via email and still had inappropriate conversations. This meant (for me at least) I remained caught in the wash, rinse, repeat cycle for a long time. There were a few things that he said (like your MM making the great friends comment) that made the cold, hard reality of the situation hit me on the head like a tonne of bricks and made me think what the hell am I doing? At this point it becomes easier to go NC because you don’t have the interaction at work. So my point is, finding another job is crucial to give you greater perspective but be careful not to get caught up in the whole “remaining friends” thing. It just doesn’t work and it will take even longer to let go.

 

I could've written this ^^ Thanks Grey Cloud... and I second all of these sentiments.

 

With him being gone for a span of time, I had this feeling of whew, it's finally over, and had mentally started cutting ties. He comes back, just friendly, I feel okay for a day. Then he hints at sex.

 

Give. me. a f***ng break.

 

Oh yeah, now that you're done with the holidays and all that great family time, all I can think about is how I want sex with someone I haven't seen nor barely heard from in weeks. Eff that noise.

 

I totally identify with being in a box. Uh - no thank you to that too. He claimed he didn't contact me more because I asked him not too.

 

Yeah, when he's at work, I'm a beautiful distraction. But when he's elsewhere, all he wants is a little touchstone to remind him that he's exactly as important and manly as he thinks he is, keeping two women tied to him. One in his work box, one in his home box. Men really do seem to compartmentalize much better than women.

 

Same thing too with him disappearing when dday - then just finding other ways to contact. Yes, I also thought, for the sake of working together, we can do friends. "Friends." He can... I can't. So we won't.

 

I could've written A LOT of this ^^ and I actually did write some of it! The bolded happened to me routinely as the affair came to a close. It actually hurt me the most. He knew how hard it was for me to watch him leave, yet that never stopped him from leaving... and then when our communication became diminished and he was still showing up to be serviced, I knew I had to bring things to a screeching halt. ALL of his needs were being met, but he had been scarcely meeting any of mine. Yes, give. me. an. effing. break. PRONTO! Whatever dude; he is just NOT that special. In any event, he is not more or less special than I am... but in my life, for me, he is not more special than I am by a long shot. End of.

 

I am so glad to know that you're already putting to use that advice about writing the good and bad side-by-side; it worked for me and I hope it will work for you!

 

xMM is the KING of boundary pushing and busting... some time ago - almost 15 years now, to be exact, a very good male friend of mine gave me the following advice: "People are going to try you..." I did NOT understand his meaning at the time. When I finally understood, I told him how much I wished he had added, "It is your job to stop them!"

 

Hmm... that's funny what you say about him not being so scared about his wife finding out.

 

It bothers me that his wife might even know who I am (no idea if that's fact or not, never got much info as he'd disappeared and said a few vague things about it after) and he still persisted - but never bothered to tell me the outcome of that, how I was involved, etc,etc. But what I thought as done was just him working really hard to repair his marriage and focus on his wife - so he could get back to chasing me.

 

I really do wish the best for him, but I cannot be any part of his life. That's what's best for me. This situation, although I would undo it, and never repeat it, has made me see myself, my life, and my desires so much clearer. Also - it's given me a window into people and their motivations deeper than I ever had before. Hopefully, eventually, I will be a better, stronger person for it.

 

^^I feel the same way as your last paragraph here, exactly. Thank you for verbalizing it in a more succinct way than I ever could (I am definitely long-winded ) I finally got this man to admit that he wouldn't be my friend without sex being a part of the friendship, and I told him that wasn't going to work for me. I called it our impasse. End of.

 

1. You wrote, "But what I thought as done was just him working really hard to repair his marriage and focus on his wife - so he could get back to chasing me." Sentence here should be amended to read, "... so he could get back to chasing me while keeping her as a gaslit prisoner so his needs are met 24/7."

 

2. I, too, have no idea what this man's betrayed wife knows. Although I know she has tracked his car to my neighborhood before. I decided that if she EVER showed up at my door, I would concede and defer to her and tell her whatever she wants to know. I might be totally caught off guard, but I have prepared for that in advance.

 

Barbed wire on its way... might trade it for razor wire...

[Taxed]

Thanks Grey Cloud. So much good stuff in here. Exactly that - I'm to the point where NC feels better. Your hot and cold experience is spot on - just a couple messages here and there to keep me hooked. With him being gone for a span of time, I has this feeling of whew, it's finally over, and had mentally started cutting ties. He comes back, just friendly, I feel okay for a day. Then he hints at sex. <snip>

 

Same thing too with him disappearing when dday - then just finding other ways to contact. Yes, I also thought, for the sake of working together, we can do friends. "Friends." He can... I can't. So we won't.

 

Sounds like a power play from his side and an effort to feed his own ego. I could be biased though ;-)

Edited January 9, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Delete duplicate post and fix and truncate quote

[Bufo]

I've posted this before so if you've seen these words before feel free to skip to the next post.

 

A rule of being a MM in an affair is that it is always easier to keep an existing A going than it is to find, groom and seduce a new AP.

 

This thread reads like a chapter in the Cheating Man's Guide to Long Term Affairs. Read and heed, ladies.

[sunrise_sunset]

I, for one, am reading and heeding Bufo. Thank you for that!

 

Bourne: "I'm not sure why this finally flipped the switch. I think it was truly seeing the shape of the box around the amount of meaning I have in his life. Yeah, when he's at work, I'm a beautiful distraction. But when he's elsewhere, all he wants is a little touchstone to remind him that he's exactly as important and manly as he thinks he is, keeping two women tied to him. One in his work box, one in his home box. Men really do seem to compartmentalize much better than women"

 

I could have written this myself word-for-word. How are you holding up this week? I was prompted by this thread last week to put a nail in our very sad coffin to break things off with xMM (not my first attempt), and we are now currently 5 days into NC. He never responded to my msg last week -- and he didn't show up at work today. I've got a strong feeling he's making a go of it to finally hit the road. One of us must, in order to make this stick. Monday was tough -- saw him once, he looked mad/sad/WHATEVER...but was quiet. As was I. I haven't been tempted to reach out, and oh God I hope it stays that way. I haven't heard back from my own prospects, but I remain hopeful.

[jah526]

saw him once, he looked mad/sad/WHATEVER...

 

You know, I've been thinking about these reactions. Mine used to get really pissed off when I was trying to stay away from him (he said that I was avoiding him for no reason). Isn't this such an entitled way to behave? It's like you took his toy away and he's having a tantrum. If he was actually a mature adult he would understand that you were doing the best thing for all involved, and maybe actually have some gratitude.

[BourneWicked]

Vivir - I will load up on that razor wire! It's the boundary pushing, yes... it seems to require constant vigillance.

 

Bufo - wonderful advice. Rings as truth.

 

Sunrise_sunset - good for you. I think I do have it a little easier not being anywhere physically near MM, so I think if you are managing to deal with him at work and no more than pass him in the hall, that's amazing and the best you can do.

 

He did contact me yesterday regarding a work item that blew up. We were brief, pleasant. Then he asked me how I was doing, said he was respecting my wishes, etc, etc. I was polite, and anything he said just made me more firmly interested in keeping that wall up. He made some comment along the lines of - so now you're happy and your life is perfect, and I have to go back to my boring life.

 

Well yes, because this was all about you all along, you do. Don't worry - there's some other sucker of a woman out there who will think this is love. It might take a bit, but you'll find her. Your 'boring' life of wife and children is something you worked towards, every day, to get. That wasn't an "oops" and you just woke up married with kids. That was a line of decisions. Maybe you should have joined the CIA or green berets or whatever if you were looking for more excitement.

 

My actual response was more along the lines of this is what I need to do to feel healthy, and that having a 'relationship' with someone with a wife is not healthy for me mentally.

 

So I think it's going to be okay. I found a job posting in another department, but I don't know if it's far enough away. I really think it's the company that's got to go. I'm writing my NC days on my workout calendar, so I didn't log yesterday. Even though I didn't contact, it didn't seem right to count it.

 

Jah - 100%. It seemed like his toy was taken away, and he's mad because he can't play with me when he's feeling 'bored' anymore. Meanwhile, I'm finding myself leaving work and feeling like there's a world out there that has nothing to do with him, because I'm not waiting for some vapid email saying "I miss you" with no actual plans for the future to not miss me.

 

Another thing you said, Jah, about instinctively finding him scary, maybe violent. And my immediate instinct was - run, this one will hurt you. Both right on just a basic impression conjured up from looks, speech and movement. So very strange that we both overrode those base instincts. I like to think I will pay attention to my gut better in the future.

 

It's like those horror movies where they run up the stairs, or into the room full of chainsaws. It's so clear, everyone sees it but you.

[DKT3]

I have to ask, you too are in a relationship, so really how do you separate your behavior from that of MM?

 

I personally see no distinction between the two from this distance. I just see two selfish people looking to have more than Thier fair share.

 

I ask this because I've noticed that so often cheaters tend to not look at Thier own actions and behavior as hurtful to other while wanting to magnify others behavior towards them. That's what I see here. I think having a true honest look at how w you and MM are parallel would help you through this. No one wants to be the bad guy so when we do bad things we justify.

[jah526]

I have to ask, you too are in a relationship, so really how do you separate your behavior from that of MM?

 

I personally see no distinction between the two from this distance. I just see two selfish people looking to have more than Thier fair share.

 

I ask this because I've noticed that so often cheaters tend to not look at Thier own actions and behavior as hurtful to other while wanting to magnify others behavior towards them. That's what I see here. I think having a true honest look at how w you and MM are parallel would help you through this. No one wants to be the bad guy so when we do bad things we justify.

 

 

DKT3, everyone on this thread that I've seen is trying very hard to get themselves out of the relationship. We are trying to do the right thing despite our own feelings and outside pressure. If vilifying the other person helps to get distance from them, is there anything wrong with that? I think we all know that we did the wrong thing. At this point we're all trying to get out and stay out, by whatever means necessary. Isn't this acknowledgement enough that we know we did a grievous wrong and are trying to correct it?

 

I think justification comes into play when we are continuing to do the wrong thing...

[BluesPower]

DKT3, everyone on this thread that I've seen is trying very hard to get themselves out of the relationship. We are trying to do the right thing despite our own feelings and outside pressure. If vilifying the other person helps to get distance from them, is there anything wrong with that? I think we all know that we did the wrong thing. At this point we're all trying to get out and stay out, by whatever means necessary. Isn't this acknowledgement enough that we know we did a grievous wrong and are trying to correct it?

 

I think justification comes into play when we are continuing to do the wrong thing...

 

Yes, but... still being in a relationship or married makes it worse, no two ways about it.

 

If someone is an Other Man or Other Woman, it may be foolish, it may be unhealthy for the OM or OW, but it is their decision and they essentially are not hurting (directly) any one else.

 

You could of course make the argument that the OM/OW is hurting the other spouse, and they are, but they have no allegiance to the other spouse.

 

When you are married having an affair, that just brings a whole other level of deceit and sleaziness into the picture.

 

Not throwing stones, I have been on both sides so I know how much every one hurts when the A is discovered. And, as most people know, eventually it is discovered...

[DKT3]

DKT3, everyone on this thread that I've seen is trying very hard to get themselves out of the relationship. We are trying to do the right thing despite our own feelings and outside pressure. If vilifying the other person helps to get distance from them, is there anything wrong with that? I think we all know that we did the wrong thing. At this point we're all trying to get out and stay out, by whatever means necessary. Isn't this acknowledgement enough that we know we did a grievous wrong and are trying to correct it?

 

I think justification comes into play when we are continuing to do the wrong thing...

 

I don't think it's vilification, I think she is finally, honestly looking at him for who he is. Besides, that's not my point. Truth is, he isn't why she is here, she is. What he does or doesn't do know should have no impact on her moving forward.

 

I saying, by seeing that her behavior (since she too is a commitment) would help her to see she isn't a victim but an active participant, that she is in control. Instead of reacting to MM, she should be proactive in moving herself forward. How does one do that? By looking at who they REALLY are.

 

When my wife had her affair, I spent some time being "the victim". The situation is a bit different, but moving forward is the same. Finally I decided to stop worrying about who she was and what she did(is doing) and focus on how to move forward. In doing this, I discovered I was a crap husband and subpar father. My marriage was done but my focus then when to improvement in my relationship with my kids.

 

None of you got in this position because of the men, but because of you. Finding out how your actions and behavior lead you here is the way to get out and stay out. Unhealthy is happy with unhealthy. Get healthy and find healthy.

[Grey Cloud]

Bourne - the vapid emails saying “I miss you” is more translated as “I miss the attention, I miss the ego boost, I miss being the centre of attention”.

 

And yes, it works both ways. The other person in the same A is craving the same things and seeking the same feeling.

[Vivir]

I have to ask, you too are in a relationship, so really how do you separate your behavior from that of MM?

 

I think having a true honest look at how w you and MM are parallel would help you through this. No one wants to be the bad guy so when we do bad things we justify.

 

DKT3, I agree with what you have written here. My take on it is that while the decision to stop is quite simple, the issues and feelings that we all have (or had, in some cases) that led us down the path into these affairs make everything about continuing and/or ending them much more complex.

 

Most of us have a slew of issues to work out in our own minds.

 

I think BourneWicked is focusing on this one particular issue in this thread in this forum. There are others, I am sure.

 

For instance, as much as I want to blame xMM for the affair, I know deep in my mind that he did not do it by himself. He didn't start it alone and he didn't keep it going alone. Many of the these things I rant and rail about him having done on this forum, I allowed him to do them. If I had had proper boundaries at the time, and heeded them, I could've cut him off a lot earlier or not started the affair at all... I own that and I deal with this particular issue in my offline journaling.

 

I also continue to feel guilt for starting a "friendship" that wasn't an actual friendship and then forcibly removing him from my life. Last time we interacted, he was struggling with this fact (probably his ego), and I felt extremely guilty.

 

People will say I shouldn't feel guilt, but I do. That is a fact. I am working through it... I actually feel more shame than anything. And I am just now coming out of a shame spiral that started at work by something utterly benign... Again, I am working through it - sometimes on this forum, sometimes not...

 

My point is that, in my opinion, BourneWicked is likely working out her issues in various ways, and this is just one of them - for this particular aspect of her feelings about him, about the affair and trying to end it.

 

So, I agree with you, but I also agree with jah:

 

DKT3, everyone on this thread that I've seen is trying very hard to get themselves out of the relationship. We are trying to do the right thing despite our own feelings and outside pressure. If vilifying the other person helps to get distance from them, is there anything wrong with that? I think we all know that we did the wrong thing. At this point we're all trying to get out and stay out, by whatever means necessary. Isn't this acknowledgement enough that we know we did a grievous wrong and are trying to correct it?

 

I think justification comes into play when we are continuing to do the wrong thing...

Edited January 11, 2018 by Vivir

[BourneWicked]

I have to ask, you too are in a relationship, so really how do you separate your behavior from that of MM?

 

I personally see no distinction between the two from this distance. I just see two selfish people looking to have more than Thier fair share.

 

I ask this because I've noticed that so often cheaters tend to not look at Thier own actions and behavior as hurtful to other while wanting to magnify others behavior towards them. That's what I see here. I think having a true honest look at how w you and MM are parallel would help you through this. No one wants to be the bad guy so when we do bad things we justify.

 

I think the difference is that I saw this as a potential real relationship if we talked about it, tried to do things the right way, whatever. It took some time to become clear to me that where I saw a possible future he just saw something to make his boring married life less boring (...and less married..) I think this is quite commonly the case with women in these situations, and the same with men. The women see love and a relationship, the men see cake. (In fairness, there are plenty of female cake eaters too)

 

I will say... I never made any vows in front of family, friends, god, etc. So I think that's a difference too. Does my SO think we are in an open relationship? Probably not, so certainly I was in the wrong.

 

I don't intend to vilify him. I think he's really beautiful, clever and funny... but I do need to cast a shadow on my rosy picture of him to disentangle from this mess I've created.

 

Also, posted in my original thread are a lot of the reasons why I think I let this happen. Things like resentment, feeling that I cannot say no to sex in my relationship, feeling like an object, poor communication, lack of having my needs met despite continually clearly spelling them out. As other stated, that is a separate focus - right now I'm focusing on disentangling myself from this. I'm not entirely sure how to fix behavior I've let go on in my relationship for years. So in the meantime, I'm focusing on getting myself clean.

[BourneWicked]

 

I also continue to feel guilt for starting a "friendship" that wasn't an actual friendship and then forcibly removing him from my life. Last time we interacted, he was struggling with this fact (probably his ego), and I felt extremely guilty.

 

People will say I shouldn't feel guilt, but I do. That is a fact. I am working through it... I actually feel more shame than anything. And I am just now coming out of a shame spiral that started at work by something utterly benign... Again, I am working through it - sometimes on this forum, sometimes not...

 

 

I have the guilt too... but then I remind myself I am truly doing him a favor by not letting the affair continue. He's been caught before, and I really think were he to be caught again, or were the full extent of it be uncovered, family life as he knows it would be over. And that would hurt him much, much more than missing me and the 'friendship' we had. Or... maybe he would get counseling if that happened, and his marriage would be better. Who knows. Other people's problems.

 

I've appreciated all the feedback on this forum, and I certainly do need to take a good hard look at myself. In part, I was in a dark place when the affair started, and I didn't even realize it. I had given up every hobby I valued, and was focused entirely on work and my family. Life had almost ceased to have meaning for the fact that I had given myself up entirely to servitude. I assumed this was just what parents do. And some do, but unless that makes you truly happy, you shouldn't. Also, I've acted very selfishly, and felt a lot of guilt and remorse for it.

 

As they say... if you're going through hell, keep going.

 

I've rediscovered a lot of the things I love to do outside of work and family, and forced time into my schedule for them. Reconnected with friends, and put time in my day for new and fun things.

 

This situation really crystallized the things that were vague and shadowy things that bothered me in my relationship, but also brought front and center some things I really appreciate in it. I have a lot of thinking to do because there are reasons me and my SO aren't married, and this really made me rethink marriage to him (or anyone). The person I am now is neither suited for, nor interested in, marriage.

 

I had a good family-filled weekend, and MM only popped into my head a few times. With him respecting my boundaries at work, and not getting those electronic "hits" of drug on the weekend, I'm feeling much, much healthier. The obsessive thinking has waned considerably. Keep ya posted...