Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Yeah I have difficulty saying goodbye in general. I miss a lot of people in my life. I know it's a normal part of life but I really struggle with letting people go. I don't want to be this way but maybe this is just going to be how I am. I don't know that it can actually change. I just want to meet someone who doesn't leave. Link to post Share on other sites
CantTakeMySmile Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 CrushingHope. May I ask when was the last time you tried to reach out to him? Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 CrushingHope. May I ask when was the last time you tried to reach out to him? He went back to her just over 3 weeks ago and I messaged him a week and a half a go. Why do you ask? Link to post Share on other sites
CantTakeMySmile Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I have been in a similar position, sadly. I was wondering how long he has been absent this time. You have said you didn't think he was coming back so I was trying to gauge how long it has been for you to deduct that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 He seems to put a feeler out ever few months. The longest we have gone without talking is 4 months. The rest of the time it's been 2 months. But it's different this time because she knows about me now so part of me thinks he won't contact me again unless he's truly leaving her. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 He seems to put a feeler out ever few months. The longest we have gone without talking is 4 months. The rest of the time it's been 2 months. But it's different this time because she knows about me now so part of me thinks he won't contact me again unless he's truly leaving her. Don't count on it... It's probably only a matter of time before things go "bad" with her and he reaches out to you... doesn't mean he has left her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 You don't think that things would be different now that she knows about me? I guess I get the idea that she will be monitoring his every move so he won't be able to be in touch without her finding out, so he would only risk it if he knew he was going to leave... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 You don't think that things would be different now that she knows about me? I guess I get the idea that she will be monitoring his every move so he won't be able to be in touch without her finding out, so he would only risk it if he knew he was going to leave... If he wants to cheat, he will find a way. Nobody can, or should, monitor another person 24/7. That is not a healthy, or happy relationship... and it's unsustainable over time. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 If he wants to cheat, he will find a way. Nobody can, or should, monitor another person 24/7. That is not a healthy, or happy relationship... and it's unsustainable over time. That's what I just don't understand...what is pleasurable about any of that? It is so dysfunctional. He has left her so many times (several times before I even met him). How can he go back over and over again if he's just going to end up leaving again? I can't make sense of it. I know I don't have to and that I shouldn't need to. It just makes me crazy. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) That's what I just don't understand...what is pleasurable about any of that? It is so dysfunctional. He has left her so many times (several times before I even met him). How can he go back over and over again if he's just going to end up leaving again? I can't make sense of it. I know I don't have to and that I shouldn't need to. It just makes me crazy. Nothing is pleasurable about that. I wouldn't want to live that way. Some people have no barometer for what makes a healthy relationship. They are willing to stay in unhealthy and abusive relationships that bring them nothing but pain... for reasons that are hard to understand. What is pleasurable about what you are doing... Waiting around, leaving the door open for a man who by your own admission is not a good man, doesn't bring anything positive to your life, and can't promise you a happy future. What is pleasurable about obsessing about this man, crying over this man, knowing that this "relationship" is destroying your self esteem, happiness, and optimism for the future? Pot - meet kettle. Two people, who are stuck in unhealthy relationships, with poor coping skills, making poor decisions. I know... That is a harder question for you to answer. It's easier to obsess about this man and wonder why he stays when clearly, he should go... You would rather obsess about why he stays and ultimately, wonder when you can expect him back again... But, it is the more important question for you to answer because it is YOUR life that is most important! Edited May 30, 2018 by BaileyB 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 What is pleasurable about what you are doing... Waiting around, leaving the door open for a man who by your own admission is not a good man, doesn't bring anything positive to your life, and can't promise you a happy future. What is pleasurable about obsessing about this man, crying over this man, knowing that this "relationship" is destroying your self esteem, happiness, and optimism for the future? Pot - meet kettle. Two people, who are stuck in unhealthy relationships, with poor coping skills, making poor decisions. I know... That is a harder question for you to answer. It's easier to obsess about this man and wonder why he stays when clearly, he should go... You would rather obsess about why he stays and ultimately, wonder when you can expect him back again... But, it is the more important question for you to answer because it is YOUR life that is most important! I 100% agree with Bailey here. CH, can you see that the stream of information you are receiving from your friend is only feeding your obsessive thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Yes. I see what you're saying. I guess I see it differently because when we are together he does make me happy and does bring good things to my life. Until he vanishes. And then I'm sad and upset. But when they are together they are miserable. And fight more than they don't. But I guess they get enough out of it to keep going back to it. And when he has had enough, he takes off for a while. Sigh. I don't know how I'm ever going to get out of this mindset. Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Sigh. I don't know how I'm ever going to get out of this mindset. One active choice you could make towards your own healing would be to ask your friend not to tell you what she hears about him. Do not underestimate the power of depriving your mind of fuel for the obsessive fire. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 One active choice you could make towards your own healing would be to ask your friend not to tell you what she hears about him. Do not underestimate the power of depriving your mind of fuel for the obsessive fire. I am trying that. I used to talk to her about it every day and I'm making an effort not to. I still have my slips. But I've been better the last week or so. Somehow hearing that they're fighting makes me feel better. But I know it's temporary. And not me. Link to post Share on other sites
Minneloa Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I am trying that. I used to talk to her about it every day and I'm making an effort not to. I still have my slips. But I've been better the last week or so. Somehow hearing that they're fighting makes me feel better. But I know it's temporary. And not me. That is a good step. As much as possible, try to redirect your thoughts away from him and her and focus on yourself. When I was in the throes of a post-breakup depression a few years ago (after the initial zombie phase of work and sleep), a close friend advised me to keep as busy as possible to ward off rumination. My two distractions were mystery novels and movies. I took my e-reader with me everywhere and saw films I would avoid like the plague today. I know that this most recent round with this man is a fresh hurt, but you might consider ways to fill your mind and free time with pleasant diversions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 That is a good step. As much as possible, try to redirect your thoughts away from him and her and focus on yourself. When I was in the throes of a post-breakup depression a few years ago (after the initial zombie phase of work and sleep), a close friend advised me to keep as busy as possible to ward off rumination. My two distractions were mystery novels and movies. I took my e-reader with me everywhere and saw films I would avoid like the plague today. I know that this most recent round with this man is a fresh hurt, but you might consider ways to fill your mind and free time with pleasant diversions. I am finding tv shows are distracting me more than they used to. I don't normally watch a lot of tv so I suppose this is helpful somewhat. I am usually an avid reader but right now when I try to read, my mind just wanders and I can't concentrate and end up reading the same paragraph/page over and over. I literally have 4 books on the go hoping that one of them will just get so good that I get immersed. I know I need to be exercising. I've been completely avoiding it. It's the "perfect" time to focus on my health and to get a few pounds off, but I just can't seem to get the motivation. I go for an 8km walk every Monday with my friend but that's all I do regularly at this point. I have a gym membership that's just collecting dust. There are so many things I could be doing but just don't. I did go out shopping for my best friend's bday tonight. I bought way too much but it felt good to concentrate on finding things that I know she'll love. I hate the feeling that I'm wasting my time. And life. I feel like time is running out to find happiness I guess. I don't know. This is the hardest time of my life and I feel so undeserving of something better. Maybe that's why I wallow... Link to post Share on other sites
Zahara Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) Yes. I see what you're saying. I guess I see it differently because when we are together he does make me happy and does bring good things to my life. Until he vanishes. And then I'm sad and upset. But when they are together they are miserable. And fight more than they don't. But I guess they get enough out of it to keep going back to it. And when he has had enough, he takes off for a while. Sigh. I don't know how I'm ever going to get out of this mindset. He comes into your life briefly and then he leaves. Of course he brings “good things” because your encounters are short and feeding off on a high. Then he’s gone. You both are on a honeymoon loop. He can’t bring any good in your life if he’s always leaving you. If anything he’s a bearer of pain. It’s not trustworthy or reliable. Absolutely nothing “good” about it except for the high highs and low lows. Stop focusing on the bits of good feelings. “Good” should be consistent. It should nurture you and care for you. He isn’t good to you. He only comes around to you because you are a fallback when things aren’t so great with her. Nothing good about it. His dealings with her are tumultuous because they’ve been together for more than a decade. The honeymoon is over. I bet that if the tables were turned, and you were in a long term relationship with him, you’d be in a miserable relationship just like she is. You don’t get to see the truly ugly side of him except for the brief glowing presentation he gives you when he flies in. The fact that no one, whether friend or family likes him is indicative that there is nothing genuinely GOOD he can offer anyone. Edited May 31, 2018 by Zahara 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yes. Zahara. Sigh. You are always my voice of reason. Seriously. What you say hurts my soul but I know you're right. I've actually never truly trusted him. Not from day one. My gut has been right about him from the get go and every single time after, but my heart does not listen. And even when he was here last time...as I've said already but just reiterating for myself...I was feeling resentful. Things that he was doing were bothering me in ways they weren't before. I felt so unsure of everything. I just thought in time things would get better, but I think ultimately I would have become angrier and maybe something would have just clicked and I would make the decision to walk away. Her exes have all been abusive to her, physically. So, in a way, he is still a "better man" than she's had in the past. And for me, he, in the moment, provides me with companionship and romance that feels good in that moment...but as soon as he's out the door or away from me, I'm paranoid that he's not coming back. It's no way to live. So even when I'm with him, I suppose, I'm not actually getting much. You're right...he's a bearer of pain on so many levels. When I see things like his daughter (early 20s) posting something on FB, she "likes" all of the people's responses except for his. It breaks my heart for her but also for him. She really wants very little to do with him...she used to look at him like he was a hero. No more. And he told his son that he had left this woman for good this time and had moved out of the city. His son just said "oh yeah..."...and now he's back there and his son must be so over it. He must be ashamed of himself. At least on some level...but clearly not enough to do something about. I read a blog post about narcissists today...I have a hard time accepting that that's what he is...but he totally is. I'll post some of it tomorrow. I think it will be helpful for people to read. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) I guess I see it differently because when we are together he does make me happy and does bring good things to my life. Until he vanishes. And then I'm sad and upset. But when they are together they are miserable. . A curious question... Is that kind of like saying "He's such a nice guy until he hits me? He's good looking, and funny, and helpful around the house... But then, he hits me." Meaning, it doesn't matter that he hurts you, time and again... because, there are other times when he's really nice and he makes you happy. Just saying - at what expense is this happiness? And yes, if you lived with him day in and day out, it would not be all wine and roses. Maybe she knows something you don't know about this man... Maybe, she knows the real man and you know nothing about who he "really" is because, let's face it... When you are dating and in the honeymoon phase, we all put our best foot forward and things are all fun and good times. As to the fact that they are miserable together, I'll say it again... It's none of your business. It is their relationship. You are intruding where you do not belong. They could make each other absolutely miserable... and it doesn't matter. It is their choice to do that. It is none of your business. Edited May 31, 2018 by BaileyB 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Zahara Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Forget about the narcissists. Best to focus on you and your own dysfunction. Best to work on your own emotional issues. This is another way of focusing on the external rather than looking at yourself and reflecting on your own journey. When I started therapy, whenever I started speaking about an ex, my therapist would rope me back in and focus on my issues. The root of your pain isn’t this man. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Forget about the narcissists. Best to focus on you and your own dysfunction. Best to work on your own emotional issues. This is another way of focusing on the external rather than looking at yourself and reflecting on your own journey. I don't know how to look at myself and do anything about it...I mean, understanding him is something that feels like it helps me. Figuring out that he is a narcissist helps me to try to understand why I have anything to do with him and how I'm letting this happen, and how to combat it. The more I read people's posts here, the more it does soak in. I know it might not seem like it, but it does help me to some degree. I don't know how to understand why I'm allowing myself to accept this treatment. I don't know where to look to figure that out. I know I'm getting some help with that with counselling, but I am not really able to understand how to help myself. BaileyB, I guess you could say it's sort of like the analogy to physical abuse that you described...but I don't actually believe it's okay for him to treat me like this. I just keep hoping he will suddenly realize what's happening and will change. But I understand that's unlikely. I know it's not my business but I have been a part of this triangle and it feels impossible not to try to understand it. But I know I have to try to let that go... Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Forget about the narcissists. Best to focus on you and your own dysfunction. Best to work on your own emotional issues. This is another way of focusing on the external rather than looking at yourself and reflecting on your own journey. Amen. I know you don't want to do this. But, we continue to say it again, and again... You must do this if you have any hope of ending this unhealthy pattern of behavior and finding true happiness in your life. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author CrushingHope Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 I just don't know how to focus on myself. I don't know where to start. I don't see the counsellor often...it will be a month or so before I see her again...and every single day/minute, I am confronted with thoughts of him and this whole thing and I can't seem to shut them down. I know I'm in the worst of it...that it will calm down in time...that the intensity of what I'm feeling will subside...it has already a little bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Zahara Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) I don't know how to look at myself and do anything about it...I mean, understanding him is something that feels like it helps me. Figuring out that he is a narcissist helps me to try to understand why I have anything to do with him and how I'm letting this happen, and how to combat it. The more I read people's posts here, the more it does soak in. I know it might not seem like it, but it does help me to some degree. I don't know how to understand why I'm allowing myself to accept this treatment. I don't know where to look to figure that out. I know I'm getting some help with that with counselling, but I am not really able to understand how to help myself. BaileyB, I guess you could say it's sort of like the analogy to physical abuse that you described...but I don't actually believe it's okay for him to treat me like this. I just keep hoping he will suddenly realize what's happening and will change. But I understand that's unlikely. I know it's not my business but I have been a part of this triangle and it feels impossible not to try to understand it. But I know I have to try to let that go... Slapping a personality disorder on someone helps us feel good about ourselves, helps us point the finger at the other, it helps create justification in our minds as to why it ended and that it had nothing to do with us. In some way, it sort of soothes the pain of rejection. When in fact we were an equal part of the toxic cycle. You don’t have to label him a narc to understand why you are doing what you’re doing. All you need to understand is why you accept and tolerate poor treatment. A journey to rebuild and regain your self-esteem. Again, he is not the root. He’s just a symptom. Edited May 31, 2018 by Zahara 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 There was another woman on this board who would make frequent posts, discussing her belief that her affair partner was a narcissist. In doing so, it put all the blame on her affair partner and conveniently absolved her from any responsibility for her own behavior in the affair. He may be a narcissist, or he may not. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. What matters is you - you need to learn why you have gotten yourself involved in this unhealthy relationship and how to get yourself out. He is not the root. He is a symptom. The root of the problem, and I say this kindly, is you. I suppose that is a good question for your counsellor next month - how to break these obsessive thought patterns. For me, I would make a list of things that I could do to distract myself when he comes to mind. And, I would go no contact. If he attempts to contact me, I would not respond. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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