Consequences ***Updated***

[whichwayisup]

Any OW feel guilty for not responding when the MM texts? I'm currently ignoring his text from a few hours earlier just checking in and letting me know what he's up to since we haven't seen each other because of the holidays. I know it's crazy, but part of my problem in even temporary NC is feeling like I'm being mean to him, not being a good friend. Even though he at times has not responded to me for several days when he's in a funk.

 

And yes, I know many of you will want to say what I should feel guilty about is being in the A. Believe me, I do feel that. And I do know he's "being mean" and "not being a good friend to me" by different actions along the way and just the very nature of having an A.

 

I just wanted to hear from OW or OM to see if my feeling guilty for not responding to him is normal or part of my particular issues due to MM's cancer. After reading here I'm more cognizant of the possibility of that "hook" being in play.

 

Let me ask you something. Do you love yourself more than you love him? Do you respect yourself more than you do him? If yes, then continue to ignore those texts. Time to put YOU first and not worry about him and his feelings since he couldn't care less about yours. Remember why NC is in place. It's for you to heal and stay in a healthy place. Time to BLOCK him or change your number, make it impossible for him to contact you. NC is pointless if you're still reading his texts, messages or emails.

[Daisy2013]

Any OW feel guilty for not responding when the MM texts? I'm currently ignoring his text from a few hours earlier just checking in and letting me know what he's up to since we haven't seen each other because of the holidays. I know it's crazy, but part of my problem in even temporary NC is feeling like I'm being mean to him, not being a good friend. Even though he at times has not responded to me for several days when he's in a funk.

 

And yes, I know many of you will want to say what I should feel guilty about is being in the A. Believe me, I do feel that. And I do know he's "being mean" and "not being a good friend to me" by different actions along the way and just the very nature of having an A.

 

I just wanted to hear from OW or OM to see if my feeling guilty for not responding to him is normal or part of my particular issues due to MM's cancer. After reading here I'm more cognizant of the possibility of that "hook" being in play.

 

Yes, I would feel guilty, but at the same time strengthened. Sometimes I would be in so much pain I just needed to not respond. He understood. But he would always tell me the next time we spoke that he didn't like that and it was mean. Mind you, I couldn't call him, I could only wait for his call each morning on his way to work and we could text while he was at work or sometimes I could call him at work after asking if it was ok to call.

[FMW]

Thanks whichway and Daisy. I think I'm starting to get that - loving myself and taking back my power, my strength. So weird that I see myself as a strong and independent person, but I'm showing neither of those things in how I'm dealing with him.

[FMW]

The posts here are wonderful and so helpful, but I realized that after reading so many similar stories and after my own previous experience as a BW and current experience as the OW, I'm not sure I will ever be able to trust any many I'm involved with in the future to be faithful.

 

The second thing I've realized is that I'm always going to feel tainted and be ashamed for my role as the OW and will never want to admit that to any future partner. But I also think I would feel guilty for not making full disclosure and I would never feel like I was being open and honest, and without that I think a relationship is doomed.

 

Anyone else dealt with those issues?

[eye of the storm]

Ugh, SMH. You are not tainted.

 

1. There are people out there who want nothing more than to have a faithful committed relationship.

 

 

2. You fell in love with the wrong person. If you want to tell your next partner, just say that. You don't have to go into in depth discussions about why anymore than you need to discuss how many people you have had sex with or your favorite position with each one of them.

[wmacbride]

OP,

if you feel like you need to disclosed if a relationship is getting serious, then do so.

It sounds like you have learned and grown a lot from your experiences, and there are people out there who can really respect that. You have touched the fire and been burnt and now you know to never do that again.

 

I'm not going to condone the affair, but I don't think it needs to be a reason for you to feel ashamed either.

[elaine567]

I think you need to get out of this affair first before you start the doom and gloom about being tainted and being full of guilt and shame.

 

You are a older woman, you don't need to list your relationships like a teenager to any man and by what goes on in this forum, NEVER tell anything about past bfs as he will struggle to get over it. I have IRL never encountered all the retrospective jealousy that seems so common here.

 

The less you say the better, but no-one has ever quizzed me about my relationship history.

Who really cares?

It is the here and now that matters.

Yes you can mention your 23 year marriage as that is a significant relationship, but your affair or any other flings, is really no-one else's business, and you certainly don't want any peeved new bf deciding to confront the MM or his wife, do you?

[misspalmy]

there some good people out there. just got find the right one. and watch for signs.

 

I wounder if the partners that were cheated on got the gut feeling.

[carhill]

<snip> I'm not sure I will ever be able to trust any many I'm involved with in the future to be faithful.

 

One thing all that stuff taught me was people do what they do, it's out of my control and I accept them as they are and decide whether or not I want to expend any of my life energy on them today. If yes, OK. That is no guarantee I'll feel that way tomorrow. Life is transitory and transactional and people are interchangeable. That doesn't mean they're good or bad, rather a commodity of billions and all mortal just like I am.

 

 

The second thing I've realized is that I'm always going to feel tainted and be ashamed for my role as the OW and will never want to admit that to any future partner.

I'd guard against predicting the future and you are free to make any choice you wish about how you view both your past behavior and yourself in general. I seriously doubt that your role as an OW defines the length and breadth of your life. It's one part, sure. IMO, take responsibility for it and move forward.

But I also think I would feel guilty for not making full disclosure and I would never feel like I was being open and honest, and without that I think a relationship is doomed.

Perhaps that might be healthy choice and you'd feel good once disclosing, but it's difficult to know in advance. TBH, at my age, pushing 60, what women have done in the past is both beyond my ability to verify and has no real bearing in the here and now. How we interact and how I feel their love and affection today is my focus. Tomorrow is unknown. If they go sideways, have affairs, disappear, poison my food, kill me in my sleep, hey that's how it goes. Can't read minds, ain't gonna bother.

 

Anyone else dealt with those issues?

Sure, long ago. The hard part was accepting that I was flawed and imperfect. Old harsh parental messages about rules and responsibilities and honor and all that crap. Once that was processed, life got better. You'll find the path that speaks to you.

[Bufo]

Den married 30 plus years met my wife when we were both about 30. Early in our relationship to being ow to mm in LTA in recent past. Her reason for this volunteered information was that she didn't want me hearing this from somebody else and finding out it was a deal breaker for me after investing in our then-budding relationship.

 

That was her past. She didn't feel proud of having been in that A but it

Was a fact. How she dealt with it was appropriate. It worked out as we later married had kids, etc. had I learned this from another, it would have been very difficult to accept.

 

I'm not suggesting you wear the Scarlet A. But if you find

Yourself in a developing relationship, consider the possible consequences of.non-

disclosure. There is never a good time for this talk and certainly no need to bring up the topic early but I believe it's something to do early in a serious relationship.

[FMW]

Thanks for all the considered responses!

[Southwardbound]

Any OW feel guilty for not responding when the MM texts? I'm currently ignoring his text from a few hours earlier just checking in and letting me know what he's up to since we haven't seen each other because of the holidays. I know it's crazy, but part of my problem in even temporary NC is feeling like I'm being mean to him, not being a good friend. Even though he at times has not responded to me for several days when he's in a funk.

 

And yes, I know many of you will want to say what I should feel guilty about is being in the A. Believe me, I do feel that. And I do know he's "being mean" and "not being a good friend to me" by different actions along the way and just the very nature of having an A.

 

I just wanted to hear from OW or OM to see if my feeling guilty for not responding to him is normal or part of my particular issues due to MM's cancer. After reading here I'm more cognizant of the possibility of that "hook" being in play.

 

I'm an OW and yep if my MM texts me, I feel the immediate need to text back. If I don't text back, then he will keep on shooting me texts/ send me emails, or eventually call until I do. Then ask me, what I was doing that, I didn't respond back. When I am feeling resistant, I don't text back straight away & yes, I feel guilty about it. - Trained me well, as some I know here will say.

[BourneWicked]

My biggest learning from this all is to take it slow, get to know the person, their friends, their life, before you let the relationship escalate. Common sense maybe, but I guess I took a lot from TV. I don't have a single relationship in my past that didn't move quickly to physical.

 

I think people can be trustworthy. I think the biggest thing is making yourself trustworthy, and having trust in yourself that you will be an honest person. (I'm not there yet). Water seeks its level.

 

Oh, and also - don't brush off those red flags. They're making lights go off in your head for a reason.

[jah526]

My biggest learning from this all is to take it slow, get to know the person, their friends, their life, before you let the relationship escalate. Common sense maybe, but I guess I took a lot from TV. I don't have a single relationship in my past that didn't move quickly to physical.

 

Agree with this. I’ve had this problem too. In almost all of those cases I’ve found out later that the guy really wasn’t that into me, which sucks, and I hate it that men do this. I like inviting people home but not going to do that with men anymore, assuming I’m ever in that position again.

[georgia girl]

BourneWicked and Jah,

 

Believe me the right guys are still out there! And, they may be wondering why great ladies like you fall for the wrong man. BourneWicked, you hit the nail on the head. Take your time. Don't invest your heart until you really know if its worth investing your most precious resource. Yes, we all want to be in love, but if you skip over skeptical like, you are taking an uncalculated risk with your heart.

 

Get to know him. Meet his family and friends. Have those awful awkward conversations about what you're each looking for and when to become exclusive. And Jah, you're right about your house. Meet him out. Don't let him come home until you can trust him a little with your heart. Why? Your home is your soft spot to land. No one gets to enter that until you know you are safe letting him in there.

 

The right guy, ladies, will see this and will respect you. They will admire you for setting boundaries that help you both establish a healthy and empowering relationship for both of you.

 

As for OP, I feel for you as my father recently passed away from the same diagnosis. He also had had an affair earlier in his life. An end of life diagnosis is hard on loved ones. You feel both loss and the need to provide the person you love with comfort and joy while you still can. But, on the flipside, having an end of life diagnosis doesn't give you a license to take advantage of others and that's what MM is doing to you. In your case - and this may be bad advice, I'll let others jump in - I'd see him one last time and say goodbye. No fooling around, no loving declarations that keep you hanging on. Just goodbye. I recommend it because it will likely be the last time you see him and I want you to spend the shortest time mourning him possible so that you can continue to live a life of contentment and happiness with a new partner that is solely yours. If you have regrets, you may mourn longer. I have no idea if my dad saw his exOW before he did. I doubt he did as he got sick quickly and he seemed very focused on making things right with my mom. So, for him, I'm not sure if he would have done that. Through these boards, I've come to realize the more human side of my dad's ex (some bad stuff happened) and I hope he did say goodbye because I think she would have mourned him intensely.

 

Good luck to all three of you. My best, GG

[FMW]

Thanks georgia girl. I don't plan on having any "goodbye" talks or meetings. We've both made our feelings clear, I don't feel the need to say or hear any more.

 

I will see him around from time to time (until the time his cancer puts an end to that) because of his being a musician and my involvement in the local music scene. I'm just taking it day by day on not spending time alone together with him anymore. I want to have a healthy relationship with a man at some point and I know I won't as long as I let him remain in the picture.

[FMW]

I haven't actually seen MM face to face in almost a month now because of family obligations for both of us around the holidays and then my choosing to be unavailable to him since then. We've been in contact through texts a few times a week, initiated by him, I keep my responses minimal but cordial.

 

The longer I'm away from him, not only do I feel disconnected from him but kind of disconnected from everything, at least a little bit. Like i'm lost in my head trying to figure out my next moves and sometimes feeling like I'm just going through the motions. I'm not tearful and miserable about him lately, and not too unhappy in general, but I still kind of feel like I'm in a fog and as my user name states, finding my way.

 

I'm assuming I'll get past it soon so I'm not overly concerned about it, it's just a really odd feeling. Maybe it's a normal addiction withdrawal reaction.

 

Does that make sense to anyone? Anyone ever had that experience?

[FMW]

I was just reminded again today how helpful all of you have been to me in this process of trying to move on from my almost 3 year affair. It's amazing how our minds can come up with such great reasons why it would be ok to break NC and just say hi, or share news with him I automatically would have just a month ago. I've been so tempted for the last few days, but then I remember everything I've read here.

 

NC day 16 and counting. Thanks for sharing your stories.

[FMW]

I'd like to hear from others who have experience with therapy for dealing with ending an affair. Do you think it was helpful? If so, in what way?

 

At a regular appointment with my GP last month she referred me to a therapist because of mild depression, based on my bursting in to tears when she asked me about how things were (embarassing!) and my subsequent responses to a depression quiz.

 

Even though I have encouraged others to go to therapy I've been resistant to it myself for some reason. I think because I intellectually know the reasons I'm feeling depressed, or think I do, and so I just need to give it time. But on top of the emotional difficulties of divorcing after 23 years of marriage and the death of my father all in the last few years, I think the "depression" is lasting too long. I finally scheduled an appointment for this week. I'm just not feeling too confident it will be helpful.

[Bittersweetie]

I've been in therapy off and on for the past 20+ years and there were two things that were important in the therapy being successful for me:

 

1. Me willing to put in the work and facing the facts

2. Me having a positive relationship with the therapist

 

I did a bout of therapy was when I was trying to end the A, before d-day. She was lovely and not judgmental at all. However I do think I was "fighting" the therapy...not really examining the things she asked me to look at in myself. Until d-day.

 

Then I realized I needed to make real changes. And she helped me, talking to me the day after d-day, setting up phone appointments when she broke her ankle and couldn't go to the office. She asked questions and I answered honestly. I saw her for probably a little over a year after d-day until one day she was like, "I don't have to ask the questions anymore. You're asking them yourself."

 

I think the most important thing I've learned from my many therapy bouts is how to reframe things in life. The last time I talked to someone, I was a mess after my son was born. He'd been born early, was in NICU, I couldn't breastfeed, he had to have surgeries. I was feeling helpless. And she looks at me and says, "Look at you! You are a strong woman and a strong mother. You've been dealing with all these things with your newborn baby. I don't see a mess, I see a warrior." Ever since then when I get too negative I reframe things and feel so much better.

 

Okay I am rambling...but my main point is what you get out of therapy is what you put into it. It isn't easy but can be rewarding. GL!

[FMW]

Thanks Bittersweetie. I am going to try and work on my mindset before going to the first session to try and be open to what I hear. I already feel the resistance so I know I'm going to have to put in a real effort.

[FMW]

As part of my work on myself on figuring out why I had an affair with a MM after having previously been a BW, I read both the Infidelity and the OM/OW sections of LS. I’m just posting this for my own purposes, not sure anyone will have any responses, it’s just helpful to get these things out there for my own “self-therapy”.

 

OW (I don’t notice it with OM) in some cases feel certain that the MM is only staying in the M for the kids or for financial reasons. They write so negatively about the BS and believe whatever the story is that the MM gives them, and that if not for (fill in the blank) MM would be with them.

 

BW/BH in many cases feel certain that the WH/WW was only using the AP and seem to be fairly confident that their WS truly does love them and understandably gloat about how the WS begged for forgiveness and completely disavowed any feelings for the AP other than disgust. They repeat what the WS tells them here on LS (as in "My WH feels....) without seeming to have any doubt whatsoever, even though they are angry and hurt.

 

I’m always so skeptical in both cases. Maybe I am just jaded or scarred from having been on both sides. I understand that the OW needs to believe the MM really loves her, I struggle with that to. And I understand the BS has to believe what the WS tells them otherwise there could be no reconciliation.

 

Even though I wanted to, I didn’t believe my WH (I divorced him) and I don’t believe my xMM either (I’ve chosen to stay away from him and hey, that’s the first time I’ve put x in front of MM, so maybe I’m making progress!). I just don’t know that I would ever be able to trust someone who cheated on me or with me. I guess that means I am not sure I can trust myself either. I know I certainly never plan to get married again.

 

As one of the BS on here says frequently, affairs suck.

[lemondrop21]

As part of my work on myself on figuring out why I had an affair with a MM after having previously been a BW, I read both the Infidelity and the OM/OW sections of LS. I’m just posting this for my own purposes, not sure anyone will have any responses, it’s just helpful to get these things out there for my own “self-therapy”.

 

OW (I don’t notice it with OM) in some cases feel certain that the MM is only staying in the M for the kids or for financial reasons. They write so negatively about the BS and believe whatever the story is that the MM gives them, and that if not for (fill in the blank) MM would be with them.

 

BW/BH in many cases feel certain that the WH/WW was only using the AP and seem to be fairly confident that their WS truly does love them and understandably gloat about how the WS begged for forgiveness and completely disavowed any feelings for the AP other than disgust. They repeat what the WS tells them here on LS (as in "My WH feels....) without seeming to have any doubt whatsoever, even though they are angry and hurt.

 

I’m always so skeptical in both cases. Maybe I am just jaded or scarred from having been on both sides. I understand that the OW needs to believe the MM really loves her, I struggle with that to. And I understand the BS has to believe what the WS tells them otherwise there could be no reconciliation.

 

Even though I wanted to, I didn’t believe my WH (I divorced him) and I don’t believe my xMM either (I’ve chosen to stay away from him and hey, that’s the first time I’ve put x in front of MM, so maybe I’m making progress!). I just don’t know that I would ever be able to trust someone who cheated on me or with me. I guess that means I am not sure I can trust myself either. I know I certainly never plan to get married again.

 

As one of the BS on here says frequently, affairs suck.

 

100% agree. Many people on these boards speak and think in black and white when the reality is likely greyer than they care to admit.

 

My xMM would say he didn’t want to leave his kids and wanted to keep their family unit in tact. I would call bullsh*t on that, sometime to his face. I would say I knew he loved his wife and was torn about his marriage and sometimes he would admit that was true.

 

When BS talk about their WS with such certainty, I also scoff a bit. I think SOME WS are just users and in it for the physical pleasure and ego boost. Those ones are probably being honest when they tell the WS “AP didn’t mean anything to me.” But then, what kind of a person is this, who would risk their marriage over something that “didn’t mean anything” to them? I mean, really.

 

So then on the other hand we have the situations where WS did have feelings for AP, often strong feelings. And when they choose to reconcile, it doesn’t mean those feelings just disappear. I read a post in Infidelity the other day where someone said something like “if my WS said they had any feelings of missing AP, I would give up on reconciliation and divorce.” Really??

 

When everything else seems to be falling apart, people tend to cling on to their certainties for dear life...

[FMW]

Well I blew NC in a big way. xMM showed up at a regular Sunday afternoon music jam session a few blocks from my house that I attend almost every week. He played a few numbers with the band but stayed the entire session and came over and started conversations with me several times (not an easy feat since the place was packed). I was cordial but not overly welcoming to his attempts. As I left he "chased after" me (as my friend I was there with put it) and just said it was good to see me and I said the same to him but that I had to get going to another music club to meet my friend I was there with.

 

When my friend and I met at the next club she told me xMM had seemed really upset almost been in tears about seeing me again. She's not a fan of the A so she didn't say it to encourage me, but unfortunately that's the effect it had on me. I changed the conversation and tried to not think about it. But at the end of the evening when I was going home for the night I gave into the temptation and texted him that it was good to hear him play again. The several drinks I had over the course of the afternoon and evening didn't help my willpower.

 

He's texted several times over the day today and I agreed to meet him for lunch on Friday. I'd like to tell myself that it's just to make things clear, that until he leaves his marriage I'm not an option. But the truth is I'm just not ready to completely let go yet and seeing him and interacting with him brought it all front and center. I'm hoping maybe he'll say or do something to put the final nail in the A coffin. If I get disgusted over the situation enough times surely I'll eventually walk away for good.

 

Just wanted to add my sad failure to the others to show that no matter how much we "know" the right thing to do and know the reality of the situation, the addiction is so very hard to break. 5 weeks NC and 10 weeks of not actually seeing each other all down the drain.

 

I'm still determined to move forward and focus on healthier relationships but this was a disappointing setback.

[Lehcar1012]

Well I blew NC in a big way. xMM showed up at a regular Sunday afternoon music jam session a few blocks from my house that I attend almost every week. He played a few numbers with the band but stayed the entire session and came over and started conversations with me several times (not an easy feat since the place was packed). I was cordial but not overly welcoming to his attempts. As I left he "chased after" me (as my friend I was there with put it) and just said it was good to see me and I said the same to him but that I had to get going to another music club to meet my friend I was there with.

 

When my friend and I met at the next club she told me xMM had seemed really upset almost been in tears about seeing me again. She's not a fan of the A so she didn't say it to encourage me, but unfortunately that's the effect it had on me. I changed the conversation and tried to not think about it. But at the end of the evening when I was going home for the night I gave into the temptation and texted him that it was good to hear him play again. The several drinks I had over the course of the afternoon and evening didn't help my willpower.

 

He's texted several times over the day today and I agreed to meet him for lunch on Friday. I'd like to tell myself that it's just to make things clear, that until he leaves his marriage I'm not an option. But the truth is I'm just not ready to completely let go yet and seeing him and interacting with him brought it all front and center. I'm hoping maybe he'll say or do something to put the final nail in the A coffin. If I get disgusted over the situation enough times surely I'll eventually walk away for good.

 

Just wanted to add my sad failure to the others to show that no matter how much we "know" the right thing to do and know the reality of the situation, the addiction is so very hard to break. 5 weeks NC and 10 weeks of not actually seeing each other all down the drain.

 

I'm still determined to move forward and focus on healthier relationships but this was a disappointing setback.

 

Knowing and doing are 2 different things. I only lasted 2 day NC...but I feel the relationship is over. We just can't let it go completely. We are hanging on by a thread. I just sent my MM a text that probably will be the straw that breaks the camels back. He will probably break up with me. At this point I dont care. But that's right now, in this moment and I will probably feel very different tonight or tomorrow which is when he will read the text. It is what it is. I'm im sorry you fell off the wagon. Im in no place to judge. Most people in this forum are not. .

Edited February 20, 2018 by Lehcar1012
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