Husband secretly recorded me

[samaraa]

I know generally, lying is the wrong thing to do in a relationship. Sometimes there are white lies, etc. But my husband of nearly 10 years keeps lying to me. Sometimes about small things, sometimes bigger things. I noticed it from the beginning here and there, but he made excuses and justifications that I (mostly) believed. We were in our early 20s dating then, and I know young people sometimes make mistakes and bad decisions. The lies weren't huge--mostly about softcore porn viewing online or pretending to go study, when he was actually watching movies. This bothered me, but I felt he had a good heart and that I could still generally trust him.

 

I love my husband and believe he loves me. At times he's been distant and inattentive during our relationship, and I've been that way at times too. He's in the tech industry and sometimes takes business trips, sometimes is very busy with projects, while I'm a stay-at-home. He's often very absorbed in his computer and phone. I'm the partner who plans and solicits our dates/outings together.

 

Some previous lies: giving large sums of money to his brother behind my back, shipping online purchases to his office instead of home to hide them, softcore porn on his phone/computer.

 

About a year ago, I considered ending our marriage, and told him he could do whatever he wanted--but without me, because I was tired of lies. He said he's going to be transparent, open, honest. He said sometimes he feels guilty about his actions and doesn't want me to know, so he omits them or lies. He promised me things would be different.

 

Since then, he lies here and there about small things. Days ago, I realized he lied to me again and instead of letting it go, pressed him to be honest. Long story short: he lied, denied, gaslighting me, then eventually admitted. He also said he's tired of being with me. When I later said, "you haven't even apologized to me," he replied "you're not going to forgive me anyway." He's been mostly stonewalling me since, besides saying he doesn't want to be with me anymore, while I've been intermittently crying and attempting to talk to him. I realize that's unproductive, so I drove to a coffee shop to write this post.

 

I've been with him since I was 20 and feel I've lost my bearings. I don't know if I can depend on myself to make a good judgement about this, since I'm so emotionally invested. Bottom line: My husband is dishonest about this or that, and I'm increasingly wondering what else is he might be lying about. I love my husband and want to be with him, but also want to feel that I can trust him as a partner, which I increasingly don't. I'm hurt and angry. Am I overreacting to something normal? Seems he's done with our marriage anyway.

 

Thoughts?

[somanymistakes]

It sounds like he just doesn't have an honest nature, unfortunately. He's so set in his habits of covering his tracks and making little lies and manipulations to protect himself, he doesn't know how to be open.

 

How normal it is depends on the extent, but it's not a good sign for a marriage whether it's normal or not. Little lies often lead to bigger ones, and build walls between people who are supposed to be completely connected. It's not just a matter of you trusting him, he clearly doesn't trust you with his true self.

 

I'm sorry.

[d0nnivain]

Yes lying is bad but these lies: giving money to a family member, watching porn & having packages sent to his office are not all that terrible. It doesn't sounds like he's sneaking around.

 

Have you talked to him about how these lies undermine your marriage?

 

Have you tried marriage counseling?

[avvril3000]

I personally couldnt be with anyone like that. Even lying about small things. The point is those small things aren't that important so why lie about them? so like you said, if he is lying about the small things, than what on earth is he doing about the big things??

 

The problem lies in trust. The more he lies, the more you dont trust him or his intentions. And we all know that trust plays a vital role in a healthy, happy relationship.

 

Another problem is that you have confronted him about his actions and he hasnt made any attempt to change, which means he either doesn't want to or just can't.

 

I suggest giving marriage counselling a go, however, give yourself a healthy time frame of how long you're willing to not see any changes. This is your life too, your time and you deserve a partner who is honest and trustworthy. it's what you want in a partner too, don't settle any further with someone who won't give you that.

 

It might take a bit of time, but there are better partners out there for you, and they will make you feel secure.

[MJJean]

 

About a year ago, I considered ending our marriage, and told him he could do whatever he wanted--but without me, because I was tired of lies. He said he's going to be transparent, open, honest. He said sometimes he feels guilty about his actions and doesn't want me to know, so he omits them or lies. He promised me things would be different.

 

Since then, he lies here and there about small things. Days ago, I realized he lied to me again and instead of letting it go, pressed him to be honest. Long story short: he lied, denied, gaslighting me, then eventually admitted. He also said he's tired of being with me. When I later said, "you haven't even apologized to me," he replied "you're not going to forgive me anyway." He's been mostly stonewalling me since, besides saying he doesn't want to be with me anymore, while I've been intermittently crying and attempting to talk to him. I realize that's unproductive, so I drove to a coffee shop to write this post.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

My exH was a chronic liar. He also said he lied because he didn't want to tell me what he was up to due to guilt or fear of an angry reaction. My response? "You could simply have not done anything you'd "have" to lie about..."

 

It's a combination of lack of self control and avoidance. He wants to do what he wants to do, but he also wants to avoid any consequences for what he does. So, he avoids consequences by lying.

 

He's stonewalling you as a form of manipulation. If you chase after him, he gets to keep the status quo (lying) without having to make any changes to his behavior or accept any real consequences for his actions. And it works because here you are, crying and trying to keep a liar you can't trust, while said liar is enjoying the ego feed and having the power.

 

Of course you can't forgive him! Nor should you. IIRC, even the Lord said you only have to forgive if the person who wronged you A) asks for forgiveness and B) has sincere remorse in their heart for the wrong they have done you.

 

Luke 17:3 "If your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him."

 

Continuing to lie isn't repentance. It's the opposite. So, really, why should you forgive him?

 

My exH and I split 18 years ago. According to my daughters, he's still a liar and they take what he says with a grain of salt.

Edited December 25, 2017 by MJJean

[samaraa]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

 

It's not just a matter of you trusting him, he clearly doesn't trust you with his true self.

 

Unfortunately, I tend to agree that my husband doesn't trust me with his "true" self. I think there may be some self-shame involved, but also that it's simply easier to conceal his activities and therefore not deal with any potential conflict or consequence.

 

Have you talked to him about how these lies undermine your marriage? Have you tried marriage counseling?

 

I did previously discuss with him how the dishonesty undermines our marriage, and he agreed things need to change. We’d also previously discussed marriage counseling, but unfortunately I never scheduled an appointment. When I realized we couldn’t use our regular insurance and would have pay out of network, I dropped the ball. I regret that.

 

One week after my initial post, I sat my husband down and told him I don’t need to be with him, but I do need to know if he’s in, out, or what. (He’d been mostly ignoring me, besides saying our relationship was over and he wouldn’t attend counseling.)

 

During our talk, my husband said he feels this conflict is insurmountable, and that even if he is honest, I won’t trust him anymore. Maybe he’s right. But he also said he’d like to try marriage counseling to see if we can resolve this. I agreed and have scheduled an appointment.

 

Although I'm hopeful about counseling, I'm hurt and angry that it took a week of stonewalling to get here. It was shocking to be treated like a non-entity by my husband. He’s done that here and there to some degree, but it seems to have intensified recently. And afterwards, I'm left feeling wounded and confused, while he acts like nothing much happened, which is jarring.

 

Hopefully, counseling can get us on track. And whether we stay together or not, we’ll have an impartial third-party to help us communicate and reach that decision.

[carhill]

Thoughts?

 

If *any* waffling on or at the MC, then.....

 

Serve him at work and give him a dose of honesty. Nothing like the sheriff showing up to bring reality to the fore. Then listen.

[samaraa]

Husband and I are having problems lately. He's been dishonest about various things throughout relationship (see past thread if interested). This is causing friction and I'm losing trust in him. I've arranged an appointment with a marriage counselor; we both agree this is necessary.

 

However, I just realized he's made 2 secret audio recordings of me (that I'm aware of) on his phone, during arguments. One was recent, the other several months ago.

 

Last month, he told me he's been thinking about recording our conversations. Because he can't remember what he says, or what I say, and it would be good to have a record of our interaction. I said fine, but let me know if you're going to do something like that. He said ok, and never mentioned it since.

 

Some background: In the past, he's recorded me a couple times times without my permission, during arguments. He made it obvious that he was recording me, but I didn't like it and told him to stop.

 

I'm not sure what his motivations were. He said he wanted me to see how I get. I do sometimes get very angry. But I told him not to record me without my permission, especially since recording in the middle of an argument doesn't portray the situation accurately. I felt he'd wait until I was wound up to record, omitting his part in the conflict.

 

He first insisted it was his right to record me in his own home, but eventually apologized and said he wouldn't do it again. He also deleted the audio files from his phone, at my prompting.

 

Back to now: I recently held up my phone and started to openly video record him during an argument. It wasn't an argument so much as him repeating "blah blah" every time I spoke. He obviously didn't want to talk, and I should have just left.

 

I'd never recorded him during our nearly 10-year marriage. I felt exasperated, but I know I did the wrong thing. He became very angry and tried to grab my phone to delete the video.

 

Fast forward to the subject of this post: The topic of the recording came up. I asked him if he's been recording me. He said he didn't know. I asked to see the audio recording app on his phone. He opened it. There were 2 recordings of me.

 

The video I'd made was short, with my camera openly held up and pointed at him. The audio recordings on my husband's phone were 30 and 40-something minutes, both made secretly, without any indication of what he was doing. He said the most recent one, he'd pressed "record" while the phone sat on his desk.

 

He also said it'd been made the same day, after I recorded him. So I looked at the date on my video, and it wasn't true. His recording of me was made one day before I recorded him. His other recording of me was a few months ago.

 

Now, I'm wondering how many other recordings my husband has made of me, without my knowledge. He claims zero. If he made others, I imagine they're elsewhere now rather than on his phone.

 

I don't know why he's done this. If he wanted to play it back to me, in an attempt to get my attention about my behavior during arguments as he previously claimed, that never happened. He didn't ask me to listen and discuss with him afterwards. The recordings remained secret.

 

When confronted, his response was blasé. He claims he doesn't remember telling me he wouldn't record me anymore, and that he didn't think it was wrong. He also said "you did the same thing."

 

He's since apologized, but doesn't seem sincere. He said it was wrong to record me and he won't do it again. I accused him of trying to manipulate me, by lying about recording me in response to my recording, but he told me he was just mixed up.

 

We're already scheduled for marriage counseling, and I'm not expecting any hard answers about my relationship here. I know this is a mess, but wanted to vent and am open to other's input.

[Arieswoman]

samaara,

Why are you still with someone who is dishonest and keeps breaking your boundaries? What are you getting out of this exactly?

[samaraa]

samaara,

Why are you still with someone who is dishonest and keeps breaking your boundaries? What are you getting out of this exactly?

 

I feel that my husband is changing before my eyes. Or maybe I'm changing. I always thought of him as a kind man, loyal, and a good provider. Lately I'm noticing things and wonder if they've been there all along, or I was just blind to them.

 

Like the manipulation I perceive from him recently. I used to think my husband was a well-intentioned, sometimes bumbling, sort of socially awkward, but loving man. Now I wonder if these "bumbles" have been manipulations or lies all along.

 

I feel a bit lost, thus my posts. I've lost confidence in my ability to discern what's happening in our relationship. It's embarrassing to admit this and kind of frightening.

 

My husband and I have been together most of my adult life, and during a lot of turbulent events. I lost my mother as a young woman, and there are other personal details I'd rather not reveal. Over the years, I've become very dependent on my husband, financially and emotionally.

 

I realize I need to establish more of my own interests outside the marriage. Unfortunately, I feel fixated on this issue because I feel a loss of stability and security, and it's been the center of my world for a long time.

[todreaminblue]

this would make me extremely wary .....i wouldn't be comfortable with this at all....i understand your confusion....if it were me i wouldn't feel like i could just be me on record.....its a trust thing......i wouldnt trust him either......i dont feel its right to do this....but then...i think about me and my writing.....i am a writer and i write about people things places and my minds eye records for later poetry or musings......is that any different....i dont use my poetry to manipulate others though......but i do write about people who capture my heart or attention.....that is a written record i guess.....

 

i dont know to me this seems really manipulative,thoughtless and him having or serving a purpose that isnt in your best interest.....

 

 

maybe you should let him know that's a boundary for you where you have to draw your line in the sand....that it makes you feel unsure of him and distrustful and wary.....and that's not the way it should be in a marriage between two people who really do love each other..sharing is not about invading privacy but allowing someone to be close to you without destroying personal boundaries...even in marriage people should have personal boundaries respected and honored....physical and emotional boundaries....i wish you well.....i hope he stops...im sorry he has done this to you...you need to let him know exactly how it makes you feel and the doubts you have now......deb

[BaileyB]

I'm glad to hear that you are going for marriage counselling because you have BIG problems if you are at the point that you are recording each other during fights.

 

Of course, he was not sincere when he apologized. He has promised not to do this before and he continues to do it.

 

I'd be out. This just doesn't happen in my house. Not the fighting, or the recording. It just does not happen...

[Just a Guy]

Hi Samara, I would also suggest IC in case you have been feeling emotionally upset or weak. Maybe the times you had undergone traumatic events have undermined you so that your judgement is clouded and you find it difficult to separate fact from fiction. This is just a thought and I may be completely wrong in my assessment. Play it by ear. Warm wishes.

[d0nnivain]

If he's only recording the fights, I would assume he's amassing evidence for a divorce.

[jjgitties]

good god. you two sound like a couple of little kids. go to counseling and get some help!

 

you yourself pretty much answered your own concerns -- the recordings are childish and useless. he is recording the middle of the argument -- so its useless as it does not capture how you got into your angry state. so if he tries to use it -- that will be the first thing that comes up and discredits the recording.

[jjgitties]

If he's only recording the fights, I would assume he's amassing evidence for a divorce.

 

that recording can't possibly work or be useful. its missing the context of how the argument came about. you mean tell me i can purposely do things to piss of my wife beyond belief and record her in crazy state and use it to get out?

[samaraa]

Of course, he was not sincere when he apologized. He has promised not to do this before and he continues to do it.

 

On the face of things, I agree. But he also told me, so adamantly, that he'd forgotten he said he wouldn't do that.. I don't find it believable, but maybe I'm wrong. These are the things that make me question reality.

 

I'd be out. This just doesn't happen in my house.

 

I realize that whatever the case, it's a miserable situation, and appreciate everyone's perspective here.

[William]

Moderation merged two threads on a similar marriage-related issue so all content regarding the issue should be covered. Please continue the discussion in this thread. Thanks!

[samaraa]

I would also suggest IC in case you have been feeling emotionally upset or weak. Maybe the times you had undergone traumatic events have undermined you so that your judgement is clouded and you find it difficult to separate fact from fiction.

 

Yes, I think that's accurate and a good suggestion.

[elaine567]

On the face of things, I agree. But he also told me, so adamantly, that he'd forgotten he said he wouldn't do that.. I don't find it believable, but maybe I'm wrong. These are the things that make me question reality.

 

 

 

I realize that whatever the case, it's a miserable situation, and appreciate everyone's perspective here.

 

How old is he?

[BaileyB]

He told me, so adamantly, that he'd forgotten he said he wouldn't do that.. I don't find it believable, but maybe I'm wrong. These are the things that make me question reality.

 

First, I don't find it very believable that he forgot he said he wouldn't do that. But, even if he did... The question you should maybe be asking is - Why did he ever think that it was acceptable behavior to secretly record your life partner during an argument (or, whatever else)? Where is the trust in this relationship? I would have none...

[samaraa]

How old is he?

 

My husband is 35.

[samaraa]

Why did he ever think that it was acceptable behavior to secretly record your life partner during an argument (or, whatever else)?

 

I asked him, and he claims he thought I knew he was recording me, so it wasn't 'secret.' (!)

 

He's also acknowledged that I didn't know, since he didn't tell me (the definition of secret)... He claims it wasn't intended to be secret, and that he won't do it again.

 

I asked why he recorded me, and he claimed he wanted to play it for me later to show me how I get sometimes during arguments. He said after the situation was resolved, he just forgot about it.

 

As I've admitted, I do get angry sometimes, as does he. I'm not going to make excuses for my behavior. I've become more aware lately of the push-me-pull-me dynamic of his silent treatment and withdrawal, and my insistent pursuing. It's unhealthy and has worsened of late, and is something I hope we can address in MC. It was during one of those times that my husband recently recorded me.

 

Where is the trust in this relationship? I would have none...

 

Trust is dwindling to nothing. I'd like to believe my partner but don't know if that's sensible.

[samaraa]

good god. you two sound like a couple of little kids. go to counseling and get some help!

 

It's childish and embarrassing.

 

Counseling is scheduled, but this 'revelation' has struck me hard. He's answered my questions, said he won't do it again, said he's sorry. On paper that's good, but I still feel skeptical and uneasy.

 

It seems discussing this has been a nuisance or unwelcome chore for my husband, which I gather from his sharp responses. He seems impatient to be done with this. I understand wanting to avoid an uncomfortable situation, but his demeanor and lack of warmth makes me question if he's truly sorry.

 

Maybe I'm taking this all too hard. Again--my confusion and clouded judgement. Since of late there've been conflicts without much time between, I'm experiencing a domino effect of increasingly distrustful and hurt feelings. I'd like my husband to be warmer to me, but I guess this is what it is.