Bf constantly jokes, caused break up

[Zahara]

It is an option zahara, if it wasn’t people would leave jobseekers , relationships everyday.

 

I think it’s posisble to change and if she invested three years she obviously liked him I just don’t think she should just jump back in and continue where they left off. He really should earn it if you ask me.

 

Yes, change is possible but through long term self-reflection, not three weeks.

 

She invested three years in a relationship that has hurt her. In those three years of consistently telling him that he was hurting her, he saw no reason to change or to find self-awareness into his behavior. In three weeks, he has now decided change is possible.

 

And no, if a relationship has caused you pain and hurt over an extended period of time, that time invested doesn't justify one to keep staying in a bad situation. Best to invest that time in moving forward on a more positive path.

[d0nnivain]

He is not such much a racist as he is immature He doesn't know how to communicate so he reduces everything to a joke. For him it's a way to diffuse tension especially when things feel serious to him.

 

He will NEVER change. I couldn't put up with this sophomoric behavior.

[Zahara]

Well I guess the worst is the racist joke (I am not white and he is). He did it in front of his friend and it caused a mini breakup. I didn't really want to mention this, because I have a feeling what people will say.

 

The other jokes are tamer , like when I met his mom, he said, " I talked to my mom and she was saying what a nice, sweet woman I brought home with me. I was confused because I brought you, lmao"

 

I don't actually think it's the content that bothers me that much, so much as the amount and the repetiition. Like every time his mom says something nice about me, he says it "confuses" him.

 

Yes, he wants me to reconsider the break up.

 

He reminds me of an ex. Subtle jabs to break me down. He would say things to keep me down and guessing. In turn mask it as "jokes".

 

I think you already know the answer to your question.

[elaine567]

Well I guess the worst is the racist joke (I am not white and he is). He did it in front of his friend and it caused a mini breakup. I didn't really want to mention this, because I have a feeling what people will say.

And would you blame us?

He humiliated you in front of his friend and you are just supposed to take it as it is a "joke"...

 

I get the fact some people actually enjoy a bit of put down banter, but this has gone far too far.

YOU were right to break up as he doesn't actually respect you, he pays no attention to your feelings and only now wants you back as no doubt he is lonely and is missing the fun he got from insulting and hurting you...

[darkmoon]

What do you mean, who is he then? A person has to be more than just jokes?

 

who is he then? romantic, serious, wise, supportive, sweet.... all or any adjectives that describe a good boyfriend, I have just listed some examples, but only you know him, I do not, so I can only guess and give examples of his potential as a companion - what is he like minus the jokes?

Edited January 9, 2018 by darkmoon

[Standard-Fare]

To play devil's advocate here: Let's assume that you've been oversensitive to your BF's "teasing." (I'm not saying that's what's actually happening, but let's adopt that point of view for a moment.)

 

Even if that were the case, the fact is that you and your BF have a very fundamental personality clash. His sense of humor, a defining part of who he is, simply does not work for you and in fact hurts you. You've tried tolerating it, you've tried correcting it, but at the end of the day it has alienated you past the point of return.

 

Any changes your BF could make would be superficial attempts to appease you. Neither of you can really change who you are, at your core. And after three years of trying, you've found that these two personalities simply do not work well together.

 

You've already taken the tough step of enforcing the breakup and going no contact. Hopefully he won't convince you to slide backwards on that.

[inmyownworld]

He reminds me of an ex. Subtle jabs to break me down. He would say things to keep me down and guessing. In turn mask it as "jokes".

 

I think you already know the answer to your question.

 

Do you think your ex did it consciously to keep you down or was it just who he was?

[Zahara]

Do you think your ex did it consciously to keep you down or was it just who he was?

 

I don't know but regardless, it wasn't healthy nor was it working for me. When you stay long enough in a relationship like this one, it will start to chip away at your sense of self.

 

Does it matter if it's just who he is? Does it justify his bad behavior? Does it make it acceptable?

 

I would suggest you move on from this guy.

[elaine567]

I would suggest you move on from this guy.

 

...And quick before your self esteem hits rock bottom and you will be completely miserable but you will not have the strength to get out.

[basil67]

Oddly, I am actually not that sensitive and he has said that, but unfortunately it has contributed to the problem. I would go months without saying anything, then I would bring it up. I should have said more, more often.

 

NO, this is not your fault for not speaking up. If he really cared about your feelings, he would have actively started working to change as soon as you spoke up the first time.

[inmyownworld]

I know logically I shouldn't go back. It's a wierd mix of being disgusted with him, with myself for still loving him, sadness and still thinking it will all be ok if I can get through to him. He's still texting me and I am polite back. I want to still talk to him but it's just making it harder. I guess I just need to get closure, but I don't know how. Thank you to all who responded.

[Zahara]

I know logically I shouldn't go back. It's a wierd mix of being disgusted with him, with myself for still loving him, sadness and still thinking it will all be ok if I can get through to him. He's still texting me and I am polite back. I want to still talk to him but it's just making it harder. I guess I just need to get closure, but I don't know how. Thank you to all who responded.

 

Closure? No one can give you closure. That comes from within -- through acceptance and realization that this man isn't the partner you desire and that you deserve to be treated better. It comes from you embracing your standards and values and knowing that this isn't right for you.

 

It's normal that you still love him but that doesn't justify going back to a situation that gave you no real change for 3 years. I'm not sure how you can get through to him when in those 3 years you were consistent with telling him how you felt to no avail.

 

If you want to give him a chance, then do so but at the first sign of bad behavior, you exit. But since you tolerated bad behavior for this long, another chance would likely be your pattern of just accepting poor treatment.

[1fish2fish]

His "jokes" aren't jokes at all. They're passive aggressive ways to put you down to make himself look better/bigger/what have you.

 

I have a friend who does this (we've been friends for over 30 years) and this is what he did several years ago: We walked into a restaurant after biking, wearing dirty, sweaty bike clothes, and he asked the hostess, "Do you serve grubby people?" She said, "Of course!" then he turned to me and said, "You can stay."

 

For years I'd just laugh them off, but then later in the day (or week) when I'd replay it in my mind, I felt like crap. It's a control tactic, and once I confronted him about it and put distance between us for several years, he stopped.

 

These little "jokes" make you feel bad about yourself and are subtle put downs. And, they're not funny.

 

Him telling you his friends don't have a problem with his jokes was also manipulative. "See? They get me, but you don't, so YOU'RE the problem." False!

 

I've learned in the past year that anyone who makes me feel badly about myself isn't worthy of my companionship. I want to be with someone who can own his sh*t.

[inmyownworld]

His "jokes" aren't jokes at all. They're passive aggressive ways to put you down to make himself look better/bigger/what have you.

 

I have a friend who does this (we've been friends for over 30 years) and this is what he did several years ago: We walked into a restaurant after biking, wearing dirty, sweaty bike clothes, and he asked the hostess, "Do you serve grubby people?" She said, "Of course!" then he turned to me and said, "You can stay."

 

For years I'd just laugh them off, but then later in the day (or week) when I'd replay it in my mind, I felt like crap. It's a control tactic, and once I confronted him about it and put distance between us for several years, he stopped.

 

These little "jokes" make you feel bad about yourself and are subtle put downs. And, they're not funny.

 

Him telling you his friends don't have a problem with his jokes was also manipulative. "See? They get me, but you don't, so YOU'RE the problem." False!

 

I've learned in the past year that anyone who makes me feel badly about myself isn't worthy of my companionship. I want to be with someone who can own his sh*t.

 

I totally agree with you. Logically I know he's not good for me. I think the cycle for me is like a drug. It's familiar territory from abuse as a child. I didn't really even know it was abuse until lately, because it was "just joking around" and "he didn't mean it". The abuse as a child was easier to see because it wasn't done that way. I knew it annoyed me, but I didn't know how much it was actually effecting me. Even though I see it now, it's hard to let go. I think I am ready to move on, but I'm still scared I'll get sucked back in.

[1fish2fish]

I totally agree with you. Logically I know he's not good for me. I think the cycle for me is like a drug. It's familiar territory from abuse as a child. I didn't really even know it was abuse until lately, because it was "just joking around" and "he didn't mean it". The abuse as a child was easier to see because it wasn't done that way. I knew it annoyed me, but I didn't know how much it was actually effecting me. Even though I see it now, it's hard to let go. I think I am ready to move on, but I'm still scared I'll get sucked back in.

 

 

You are so right. It IS like a drug! That's why "we" (and I mean me) stay with these guys because it feels normal to us.

 

I went back 3 times to my emotionally abusive bf (who did stuff like this along with other stupid stuff) before I was mentally ready and strong enough to cut all ties and go NC. I know how weak I am, even now - 8 mths NC, and I don't fool myself into thinking I'm strong enough to hear updates from mutual friends on how he's doing. I've made a conscious effort to focus on me - my interests, my goals, and my mental health. Slowly but surely, my self worth is coming back.

 

You just take care of YOU and do what you need to do to protect yourself. Good luck!!

[preraph]

Freud had a lot to say on this topic, and it's one topic he was totally right about. If he's saying it, he's thinking it. So even if he restrains himself from saying it, he is still thinking it, which really isn't much better. He tears others down to build himself up. It gives him a little boner each time he does it. It doesn't last, though, which is why he wants to keep seizing every opportunity to do it and give himself that momentary 'I am superior' feeling.

 

I knew a guy who did this same thing. Worked with him off and on for years. He was young when I first started working with him. He thought he was being smart or, as he kept saying "ironic." Yeah, the ironic thing is he kept a job as long as he did. He once had a local model for a girlfriend. No one understands why she went along with it. No one. He abused her for years but kept saying HE is the one who didn't want to marry. Why? Because this made him feel he had the upper hand. Well, she finally got sick of him (she was very sweet but I'm serious when I say really naive and not too smart) and found a much better guy immediately.

 

His mouth got him fired from that job. One day the boss just got tired of hearing him mouthing off. Just heard him in the hall being a jerk and fired him. I actually helped him get his next job. Don't ask me why. I kept thinking he's young, he'll grow out of it or grow up or at least pick up a sock or something.

 

But then that job didn't last (I thought he'd fit right in because there were some real blowhards at that place too). Then more years went by and I got hired to take charge of a branch and HE was working there for commission only and real bitter about it. What a mess. Now, this guy had alcohol exacerbating his problem. It was kind of hard to tell in the early days because we were all party animals. But by now, he's in his mid-thirties and he's worse than ever while others have fallen back a bit.

 

So he is riding a bike to work (from a long way away) and it's because of his DUIs. Anyway, he's not just ironic anymore, he's old and bitter and just plain mean and abusive. Immediately, he started mouthing off and undermining me to the other employees right in front of me and lord knows what behind my back. I didn't know anyone there but him. In the old days, he'd smile boyishly and say "Just kidding" or "Just being ironic." Now he wasn't even making an attempt to smooth it over. It was bad and abusive and there came a time he knew I wasn't about to put up with it anymore, so he left. Hurray. (Oh, also, he asked me if he could drink at work. He was under a judge's order at that time and had asked me to sign something saying he wasn't drinking, so I said best I could tell he wasn't drunk when he came to work, which was true at the time. And THEN he begs me to start letting him drink at work.)

 

My point of this story is that these guys don't get better. They get worse. They are driven by some bad self-esteem and insecurity in themselves that makes them want to tear down other people to elevate themselves and feel superior. He means everything he says like that. He's not a fiction writer. This stuff comes straight from his subconscious out of his mouth, and he is thinking it.

 

There are a billion guys in the world. Go find one who's not a mean jerk.

[dumbass2]

People can change habits, but his joking is part of who he is. Can't be changed just like that. You'll have to accept him as is or leave him be. Don't listen to him telling you he'll change. You've let him know in the past and he should have done something about it before it got to the break up. Again, it's not trying together him to change an annoying habit, this is part of his personality.

[staggerlee71]

preraph is close on this.

 

All jokes have a bit or truth. so he is in essence communicating.

 

This is totally about him, his inner self, and how he sees himself.

 

The issue is until he can recognize that what he does hurts you, it wont change.

 

problem is only he can change it

[inmyownworld]

Thank you, These comments are really helping me. It's true, it's part of him and who he is. but I also think he wants to change it. I think he thought in the past, he could just control what he says but it didn't work. He doesn't even realize he's doing it some of the time.

 

I saw him yesterday to tie up loose ends and he did say how he's realized it has effected everyone he deals with, from work to his family to me. My friend said that he hasn't changed or realized it before, because he hasn't had true negative consequences from it. Now that he is losing me, I think he's really thinking about it. It's not enough, but he said he's going to go to therapy because he does need to figure this out. I really don't know if he's just saying this stuff to try and get me back or if he is sincere. He wanted me to say there was still a chance for us, but I couldn't say that. I said I would remain his friend if he could deal with that.

 

I don't think he wants to be friends at all. I think it's all or nothing with him, so I guess it's nothing for now. Oddly, I never knew before what people meant when they love someone, but not in love anymore. I think that describes me now. I still love him, but I had no attraction to him yesterday when we met. I think if he tries to push it more, I might want to see where it goes. Ugh, I don't know if I want him or just miss the part of being a couple and the companionship. I guess I'm going to take it one day at a time and see how I feel. It's just so hard because I still feel like I'm in limbo. I'm single again, but don't feel single and I don't want to be single.

[preraph]

See if he really gets into therapy. Tell him you have lost attraction for him and don't know if it will come back if he fixes himself or not.

 

But always remember, these things he's saying, he really was thinking them. He doesn't seem sorry for thinking them but only that he got called on saying it out loud. He's got a lot of therapy to get his self-esteem back, and therapy alone won't do it. He'll have to build himself up and accomplish things and start feeling like he's worth something. I'm sure he probably acts grandiose and puffed up sometimes but that's not what's down under.

 

It's even worse that he doesn't even know he's doing it. That just means it's coming from his subconscious and that's where the truth lies.

[inmyownworld]

See if he really gets into therapy. Tell him you have lost attraction for him and don't know if it will come back if he fixes himself or not.

 

But always remember, these things he's saying, he really was thinking them. He doesn't seem sorry for thinking them but only that he got called on saying it out loud. He's got a lot of therapy to get his self-esteem back, and therapy alone won't do it. He'll have to build himself up and accomplish things and start feeling like he's worth something. I'm sure he probably acts grandiose and puffed up sometimes but that's not what's down under.

 

It's even worse that he doesn't even know he's doing it. That just means it's coming from his subconscious and that's where the truth lies.

 

That's what I told him, that if he says it, he's thinking it. He says he isn't thinking it, but that makes no sense to me. How do you say things you're not thinking? But then I think, if he thinks these bad things about me, why does he want to stay together?

[preraph]

That's what I told him, that if he says it, he's thinking it. He says he isn't thinking it, but that makes no sense to me. How do you say things you're not thinking? But then I think, if he thinks these bad things about me, why does he want to stay together?

 

I mean, he's saying that because what else is he going to say? Yeah, I meant it, but I'm sorry I said it, but I meant it, yes.

 

Low self-esteem people NEED to be with someone to prop themselves up and make them feel more normal. Hey, I'm okay, I have a girlfriend. Never mind that I say nasty things to her to make myself feel superior all the time.

[inmyownworld]

I mean, he's saying that because what else is he going to say? Yeah, I meant it, but I'm sorry I said it, but I meant it, yes.

 

Low self-esteem people NEED to be with someone to prop themselves up and make them feel more normal. Hey, I'm okay, I have a girlfriend. Never mind that I say nasty things to her to make myself feel superior all the time.

 

Very true. I wish he would say he meant it. Even though it sounds meaner, it would make me feel less "crazy". It's like being mindf'd all the time.

[preraph]

Well, if his rudeness is managing to make YOU feel crazy instead of him, then I'd say he has some skills at gaslighting too. If you aren't familiar with the term, look it up. It's someone who manages to act like you're imagining a problem they're creating, shaming you for making too much of something, for instance, minimizing what they're doing. It would be totally consistent with how he is because he has to have SOME defense for doing this to people his whole life.

[inmyownworld]

Well, if his rudeness is managing to make YOU feel crazy instead of him, then I'd say he has some skills at gaslighting too. If you aren't familiar with the term, look it up. It's someone who manages to act like you're imagining a problem they're creating, shaming you for making too much of something, for instance, minimizing what they're doing. It would be totally consistent with how he is because he has to have SOME defense for doing this to people his whole life.

 

Thank you for your post. Yes, I think he did think I was making too much of it and didn't really see what he was doing. I saw my therapist who mentioned the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse. It's the 4 predictors of divorce and she said we had "contempt" ever present in our relationship. After reading about it, it makes so much sense. Doesn't make it easier, but I'm putting the pieces together of what happened.

 

At least I am realizing that my feeling are valid. Again, thank you for your comments on my thread. It's still hard to let go despite knowing all of this now.