Found out Dad I was interested in is married?!

[WorldInMyEyes]

Of course. As I just mentioned in another post, I want to see where this goes. It would be the logical progression.

Wait until you have your first one-on-one time with him, it will blow your mind. I don't mean sex, I mean just you and him talking with no one else around. The unavailability factor magnifies an already incredibly intense situation. What an amazing experience it is.

[JJacobs]

The thing is if you move forward and have a date or have sex, it will snowball to wanting more. And then a very possible outcome is that he'll get scared and withdraw - which for you will reflect into the so dreaded rejection (although technically the rejection won't be for you and your qualities as a woman, but a reflection of the circumstances).

 

I can totally see him withdrawing - I go back and forth about his interest, which tells me he might be struggling with moving the flirtation forward. So if something really happened and he withdrew, it would hurt. But i would also have lived. I’ve spent a lot of time protecting myself from pain. No one dies from being in love. Heartbreak exists, then it passes. It doesn’t scare me anymore. What I do not want is to wake up at the age of 70 regretting all the love and sex I could have had! My self-control as far as he is concerned is zero

Edited February 8, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote and remove extraneous characters

[JJacobs]

Wait until you have your first one-on-one time with him, it will blow your mind. I don't mean sex, I mean just you and him talking with no one else around. The unavailability factor magnifies an already incredibly intense situation. What an amazing experience it is.

 

 

???

 

I would love that so much!

 

Unfortunately, at the moment I don’t have any hope that it is going to happen. I’m only going to see him 7 more times and then it will be over! I might run into him at the gym but then that’s it. I don’t see him making a move, I don’t even know if he’s as interested as I think he is.

 

Although, I realized that on Tuesday he stayed shooting hoops after practice because he was waiting for Camera Watch to leave! My son was shooting hoops with him and I was still sitting down, so he knew we weren’t leaving. As soon as Camera Watch cleared out, he came over to where I was. The other parents left pretty quickly so we were both alone with our kids. I had noticed that he kept checking the door and watching who was leaving when he was on the court, which is very unlike him - usually practice is over, he’s out of there - so I even looked around afraid he might be checking out another mom ? Nope, he was waiting for everyone to leave! And I was bribing my son with gum to stay ?

 

It worked. He was making conversation with me and it felt easy and... charged. I wish I had stood even closer to him than I did! I already stood pretty close and he didn’t move an inch... Earlier when I was sitting down and called him over, he leaned into me to hear what I was saying and he got pretty close, too.. We could have almost kissed!

 

But that’s all we have right now. These little moments. And I wish they meant to him what they mean to me.

[GorillaTheater]

The unavailability factor magnifies an already incredibly intense situation. What an amazing experience it is.

 

 

Kind of like mixing a couple of different street opioids, I imagine.

[BaileyB]

He is probably enjoying the attention he is getting... It's a nice distraction from his hum-drum married life. It must be flattering to think that another woman would find him attractive. But, that's probably all he is feeling...

 

I agree, he's not going to ask you out on a date. Married people don't date. If they do, well... they that's a big red flag that they are not a very good partner.

[JJacobs]

I just read the comment about the paper trail and it made sense!! It might explain why his emails are different.

 

So he and I used to go back and forth with emails and it was pretty thrilling... The last couple of weeks he’s changed, when he initiates with a message to the group and I reply to only him, with a couple of sentences, he doesn’t continue. So I went back and checked the message recipients... His wife is the last recipient added to these last few messages!

 

Now, he uses his work email for all basketball communications, so I don’t know how she would see those... But he’s probably thinking ahead about my now having her email address! Paper trail. And in person he’s very flirty as long as his wife is not watching (games), and his wife’s friend (Camera Watch) is no longer around (practices)!

 

Thank you so much to S2B for making me think of this, this isn’t cheating on my side so I’ve failed to see it from his (scared) perspective!

 

I think you’re right about the sex... Hearing it put like that doesn’t bother me as much as I thought it would. Interesting!

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

So I went back and checked the message recipients... His wife is the last recipient added to these last few messages!

 

 

That's good. Maybe he asked her to keep him accountable so he doesn't do anything stupid.

[JJacobs]

That's good. Maybe he asked her to keep him accountable so he doesn't do anything stupid.

 

If you’re right, then this means he’s even more tempted than I thought he was! ?

 

And I was able to go back to early December emails, she had been added to some of those too but not all. I just hadn’t been paying attention, I didn’t even know he was married back then. I need to focus my attention from now on...

[JJacobs]

I have to say I’m finding that posting on this forum has been very helpful. It makes me consider things I wouldn’t otherwise consider!

 

And the more I revisit the chronology of behaviors, the more I see that he has made a decision - he was shy in person before, free in emails before. Now he’s shy in emails, bold in person. Why? Because now he has ulterior motives to turn this into something, even if it’s just sex.

 

He didn’t have anything to be careful of before. He does now. It’s interesting that my decision has happened later in the game... But it has definitely happened as well. The Psych major in me realizes that we need to pay attention when behaviors change. Mine has changed, just like his.

 

Will something actually happen here? I don’t know. I don’t see myself inviting him over for sex like S2B said. So maybe this will just be an enjoyable platonic crush and nothing else!

[BaileyB]

That's good. Maybe he asked her to keep him accountable so he doesn't do anything stupid.

 

Smart man.

 

Perhaps he feels that there is trouble brewing and wants to be transparent with his wife.

[JJacobs]

It could be - and he was already doing that before he and I started talking. Perhaps he has cheated before and is on probation? I don’t know.

 

Interesting statistic - only 12% of cheating men in a study reported that they did so because of sexual dissatisfaction. What was the number one reason for the others? Feeling UNAPPRECIATED. When men feel like they can’t win with their wives, they get out of the game, either physically by leaving, or emotionally by cheating.

 

But I would be very surprised if b-dad were a serial cheater who does it for sport. His willingness to engage me so far shows a couple of things: he has allowed the interaction to progress, he is becoming more interested overtime, he is taking precautions to ensure that anything between us does not hurt his marriage. Why? Because at least a small part of him has entertained the idea of letting this happen in real life, not only in our fantasies.

 

The difficult part is that I know how easy it would be for me to make him fall in love, if I wanted to. If I had access to him, it would not be difficult. Men are simple. But one thing at a time, that’s not my intention right now. A lot would need to happen before that kind of emotional seduction could begin. My ex-husband couldn’t hold on to my interest, but I still have his to this day. Because I know exactly how to act once I have access - my current problem is getting there, and for now I’m thankful for my hesitancy.

 

But b-dad’s risk of messing up his marriage right now is pretty low. I’m not aggressive, he needs encouragement. So those of you rooting against the affair might get your way! ?

[JJacobs]

Personally I think you are feeding his ego.

 

That makes for hot sex with his wife. Just pointing out what happens when a spouse starts flirting with someone outside the marriage - sex at home gets steamy.

 

And he gets an ego boost to boot.

 

Ha! That could be, but I highly doubt it right now. I heard him complaining to one of the coaches that his wife’s parents are visiting, have been there for weeks and will be for at least 10 more days... He seemed pretty stressed about it! I also saw him making irritable faces at his wife at the game last Saturday, they seemed to be arguing when she was handing him something... (I was too far away to overhear but he did not look happy.) He might get all the sex he needs, but I doubt that’s happening these days.

Edited February 9, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
unproductive to topic ~T

[BaileyB]

Ha! That could be, but I highly doubt it right now. I heard him complaining to one of the coaches that his wife’s parents are visiting, have been there for weeks and will be for at least 10 more days... He seemed pretty stressed about it! I also saw him making irritable faces at his wife at the game last Saturday, they seemed to be arguing when she was handing him something... (I was too far away to overhear but he did not look happy.) He might get all the sex he needs, but I doubt that’s happening these days.

 

Nobody ever knows what is happening in a marriage except for the two people who are in the marriage. Don't presume to know what is happening in their marriage. Especially because you have ulterior motives, it will surely color your perception.

[WorldInMyEyes]

Nobody ever knows what is happening in a marriage except for the two people who are in the marriage. Don't presume to know what is happening in their marriage. Especially because you have ulterior motives, it will surely color your perception.

LOL, not if one of the spouses is indicating to someone outside the marriage exactly what is happening within it . . .

 

B-dad is indicating exactly what is happening (or not) within his marriage. You think he actually has to say the words?

[JJacobs]

LOL, not if one of the spouses is indicating to someone outside the marriage exactly what is happening within it . . .

 

B-dad is indicating exactly what is happening (or not) within his marriage. You think he actually has to say the words?

 

World, as usual, you articulate exactly what I’m thinking! ?

 

Thanks for understanding what I’m going through, I’ve read some of your comments in other threads and you seem to be going through something similar! So you understand.

 

I’m counting the minutes to see him this morning ? He emailed the group yesterday afternoon and I haven’t replied. I’m going to try to keep our flirtation in person alone! It might give him some measure of trust - I mean, for all he knows I could be some crazy woman who would forward flirty emails to his wife!! He doesn’t know how discreet I am. Yet.

 

I’ll be back if there is anything to report today ?

[WorldInMyEyes]

World, as usual, you articulate exactly what I’m thinking! ?

 

Thanks for understanding what I’m going through, I’ve read some of your comments in other threads and you seem to be going through something similar! So you understand.

 

I’m counting the minutes to see him this morning ? He emailed the group yesterday afternoon and I haven’t replied. I’m going to try to keep our flirtation in person alone! It might give him some measure of trust - I mean, for all he knows I could be some crazy woman who would forward flirty emails to his wife!! He doesn’t know how discreet I am. Yet.

 

I’ll be back if there is anything to report today ?

Yeah, I'm in a very similar situation which is why I'm not guilt-tripping/judging you here. I obviously can't talk to anyone about it IRL so it's nice to know I'm not the only one involved in this kind of thing.

 

"I'm on Fire" from Bruce Springsteen and "Halo" from Depeche Mode are on my playlist right now, continuing your music theme. Those songs are very applicable to what we're both experiencing.

[JJacobs]

I wrote to you about the bruce Springsteen song but my post got deleted! I got it as soon as you mentioned it. Great song! I have posted Dave Matthews’ “Crash into me” - who knows... He might wake up to what I’m doing, it doesn’t hurt to try... ?

 

I’m at the game right now. B-dad appears to be sick and really out of it ? I got here late because my son had another game so no flirting so far! I’m not expecting it now... He still looks hot regardless of being sick ?

 

And you can talk about your situation anytime! ? I wouldn’t consider it thread-jacking ? Maybe we can help each other through this! The longing isn’t easy...

[JJacobs]

So, things picked up a little after the last post ?

 

But let me start from the beginning!

 

My ex and I get there almost at game time, which means most of the bleachers are taken and the only seats available are right behind his wife! My ex actually sat behind her too, but right next to his wife’s dad... I immediately felt deflated because I knew b-dad wouldn’t be able to flirt with me with his wife right in front of me!!

 

As I mentioned, he looked pretty sick. Not his usual smiling self. Even during the game when the kids scored, very little reaction from him. I wanted to nurse him back to health ? But that’s a different post!! First thing I noticed is that his wife is full of grey hairs on her head!! Really? The woman has a husband that hot and doesn’t even color her hair? But that’s a minor observation.

 

At half time, I made sure she heard me ask my ex “Do you think he has enough water? He’s been drinking a lot.” My ex said “Why don’t you go get his bottle and refill it for him?” I knew he would say this ? So the team was all the way across on the other side of the court, so I walk along the side of the court and get my son’s bottle. B-dad looks at me and I don’t even look his way - I know his wife is watching! I fill my son’s bottle and return it, all the while not looking at b-dad at all! But I wanted to.

 

On my way back, I notice his wife staring at me from her seat. I don’t even look her way, because I knew she was watching me. I sit behind her and let it be.

 

At the end of the game, I was hoping she’d go talk to somebody so b-dad could come over... She stayed put. So the three of us left. I thought we’d just go to the restaurant and gone was my chance of at least having a few glances and smiles and a few words, since that’s all I can have at games.

 

So at the restaurant I rush to grab the table closest to the entrance- I’m standing up putting something in my son’s backpack, my son is sitting down as my ex is buying our food. B-dad walks by... There’s another kid from the team standing there, b-dad ignores him!

 

Then says to my son “What did you get me??”. I look up and his wife is nowhere around him. My son is silent so I smile and say to b-dad “Maybe a sub?” ? He keeps walking but says something with that big smile of his that I can’t hear because there are idiot teenagers behind me!! I am looking straight at him (totally stopped what I was doing!), and I chuckle at what he says, even though I didn’t hear it... I knew it was flirty from his eyes and his smile.

 

So as I chuckle happily, I look around.... and there is his wife, staring straight at me. He had been walking way ahead of her! By then she had caught up and the look on her face wasn’t friendly or menacing - it was curious, as if she knew she had missed out on hearing something she should have heard. And I’m sure she did.

 

It didn’t bother me in the least. I knew that he had planned it that way, walking ahead then talking to my son instead of others, because then he and I could at least communicate. There were so many around, it was a wonder I could hear him at all! But he sought us out. He’s still looking for contact but it’s so darn difficult on game days!!

 

I’ll just have to do better at practice.... If Camera Watch’s son is still sick on practice day, maybe she won’t be there and we can be more open. I wish I had more to tell you, guys.... I knew today would be tough because my son had two games with ten minutes in between... Then the wife put a wrench in any developments.

 

Oh, well! There’s always Tuesday ?

[JJacobs]

Yeah, I'm in a very similar situation which is why I'm not guilt-tripping/judging you here. I obviously can't talk to anyone about it IRL so it's nice to know I'm not the only one involved in this kind of thing.

 

"I'm on Fire" from Bruce Springsteen and "Halo" from Depeche Mode are on my playlist right now, continuing your music theme. Those songs are very applicable to what we're both experiencing.

 

Halo is a beautiful song! Depeche Mode has so many great songs. Crowded House’s “Into Temptation” is one of my favorites right now. We’re definitely not the only ones going through this, with the amount of songs written about illicit love ?

[WorldInMyEyes]

Halo is a beautiful song! Depeche Mode has so many great songs. Crowded House’s “Into Temptation” is one of my favorites right now. We’re definitely not the only ones going through this, with the amount of songs written about illicit love ?

"When our worlds they fall apart, when the walls come tumbling in, though we may deserve it, it will be worth it . . ."

 

JJ, let's say you and BD have an opportunity to be "alone" together in a public place, just to talk for a few hours. What kind of effort would you make on your appearance in terms of makeup, jewelry, clothes, etc.? Like any other day or would you dress up for it? Just trying to get a better feel for my own situation based on how my other person appeared last time I saw her.

 

Thanks!

[minimariah]

B-dad is indicating exactly what is happening (or not) within his marriage.

 

#wellactually... no - he isn't.

 

OBVIOUSLY... the world is not black & white - and human relationships are never that simple that you can make a conclusion about someone's ENTIRE marriage based on their one sentence, one look or one flirty situation. that's why you have TONS of shocked OWs whose MMs suddenly realize their marriages mean something to them - when the As is discovered - & then they drop them like a hot potato and move along... those OWs, very much like you, also thought that their MMs "indicated" something and that they don't "need to say the words" and that "everything is clear from the look" - give us humans a little more credit than that, will you?

 

you see what you want to see - that's... basic psychological principle.

[JJacobs]

"When our worlds they fall apart, when the walls come tumbling in, though we may deserve it, it will be worth it . . ."

 

JJ, let's say you and BD have an opportunity to be "alone" together in a public place, just to talk for a few hours. What kind of effort would you make on your appearance in terms of makeup, jewelry, clothes, etc.? Like any other day or would you dress up for it? Just trying to get a better feel for my own situation based on how my other person appeared last time I saw her.

 

Thanks!

 

Oh, good question!

 

If a woman is dressing up for you, it’s a good sign.

 

When I take my son to town league, I still look nice because that’s just who I am, but I will wear yoga pants and a simple top, sometimes sneakers...

 

Time to see b-dad?? I start getting ready 2 hours ahead. Full shaving not because he will see it, but because I want to feel as sexy as possible. Special shampoo and conditioner to give me super thick hair. Exfoliate my face.

 

Then I blow dry and put my hair in hot rollers for super model hair, then full makeup... Including contouring, eyelashes (full or discreet depending on my mood).

 

My outfit is planned days in advance, and the word here is one: sexy. This doesn’t mean full cleavage or bare legs, but something that suggests rather than shows! Always high heels - in my case, high-heeled boots every time. My goal is not only to attract, but to feel empowered enough to act on my attraction. This is the real reason we women dress up for the men we are into!

 

This is what I do twice a week when I see him... I don’t know what I’d do if we were to see each other one on one! ? But he doesn’t know I’m dressing up for him, he’s never seen me any other way.

 

If you notice a difference in your crush when she meets you, it’s because she is trying to attract you. Pay attention to communication patterns too, but it may be counterintuitive. I won’t speak for your crush, but I would be very careful not to respond too quickly or even to every communication attempt a man makes. Why? Because I don’t want to run the risk of being seen as desperate and lose his interest.

 

I know this falls into the playing games category we’ve discussed, but unfortunately that’s how we women have been programmed to interact with a man we like! The more you like a man, the less you show it within reason. The reasoning behind this is that then we will be a prize to “catch” and be more valued, since women are so plentiful, especially for a good-looking man!

 

Is she taking special care with her appearance? Is her communication pattern spotty? Does she remember things you’ve discussed in the past and tries to bring them up? All good clues.

[JDJ]

JJacobs,

 

Your thread is beautifully written and analyzed. I got drawn into the drama and spent most of the evening reading it! Clearly you are enjoying the excitement of the situation. But there are emotions and potential on one side, versus facts on the other. What I am most surprised by is that all of your communication occurs in the context of the basketball games. I mean, he is required to be there, and he is required to write to the kids' parents. If he says "Hi" to you more often than other parents, e-mails you individually a bit more than other parents, and looks at you more often because of your attractiveness, all of that may still not add up to much. Maybe he just enjoys passing the time during games with the prettiest woman in the stands, and that would be someone else every season.

I was surprised when you said it would be easy for you to make him fall in love. I don't think men are as simple as you think, and your scenario of having complete control over his heart if you were to make a move is more of an exciting dream on your part than a sure thing. Reality is never that easy.

It seems as though you think the mutual attraction between you will pull you automatically together after the season ends. But if you already have his number, I think it is on you to text him a little something (maybe just a question about your son's performance) to establish a communication channel outside of basketball before it is too late. If you are not ready to do that, maybe you need to reflect on what you are really hoping for.

 

Good luck!

[WorldInMyEyes]

Is she taking special care with her appearance? Is her communication pattern spotty? Does she remember things you’ve discussed in the past and tries to bring them up? All good clues.

JJ, thanks so much for your "behind the curtain" explanation. Women always have been, and always will be, a mystery to me and things like your post really help out a lot.

 

As for your three questions^^^? Yes , yes and yes

 

The spotty communication pattern thing is annoying, confusing, and a little bit of a bruise to the ego. In a way, ignoring us like that makes us like you ladies just a little bit less (temporarily). I wish you guys wouldn't do that. LOL

 

As JDJ suggested in the previous post, it's probably a good idea now to "establish a communication channel outside of basketball". My MW and I have absolutely no "official" business interacting with each other, so we needed to establish a line of communication beyond what our previous roles were (we don't work together anymore).

 

JJ, random question: have you ever seen the movie "Take This Waltz"?

[JJacobs]

It seems as though you think the mutual attraction between you will pull you automatically together after the season ends. But if you already have his number, I think it is on you to text him a little something (maybe just a question about your son's performance) to establish a communication channel outside of basketball before it is too late. If you are not ready to do that, maybe you need to reflect on what you are really hoping for.

 

Good luck!

 

All valid points, thank you! I somewhat agree with you.

 

Meeting b-dad has been both a blessing and a curse - last Fall I kept complaining to my friends, and mumbling to myself, “Why can’t I just find a man I’m attracted to?!” It is as if the universe heard me and put the perfect man right under my nose! Of course, he had to be married - and either as shy as I am, or simply not interested.

 

I am learning a lot about myself, though. I am extremely shy. You would never guess it from looking at my professional life. And it’s not related to lack of confidence, either - it is an intense devotion to self-preservation! Added to my very old-fashioned views about male-female relationships, it is not exactly a situation conducive to multiple, and easy, love affairs.

 

Which brings me to your next point, about falling in love. I should not have made this gender-specific. It is easy to make men or women fall in love - the process is the same. First you tempt them, you send them mixed signals, you hint at who you are - while finding out who they would prefer you to be, then you project those things. (I don’t believe right and wrong exist in seduction.) Then you enter their spirit by focusing intense attention on them - you take on their tastes, their moods, their feelings, effect a regression to a time of intense pleasure in their lives. Then you throw in a little pain - perhaps you’re no longer interested, there might be someone else, or you need to step back. You can keep this pleasure and pain dynamic going almost indefinitely! The lows will be low, but the highs will be monumental! The most important thing about making someone fall in love is that your efforts are ALL about *them* - you need to erase a lot of yourself during the process in order to project what they want.

 

But what does one need in order to do all of these things?? Access.

 

Exactly what I’m not giving myself with b-dad. I was going to text him last week and lost my nerve. I’ve been extremely subtle with him and texting him, even about games or my son, would definitely “out” me. Then I started thinking about how my son might be impacted if b-dad rejects me and I’m too embarrassed to take my son there next season - it is b-dad’s first time coaching, but who’s to say he won’t do it again next season! I don’t want my son to miss out on anything because of my potential embarrassment.

 

Here’s what I think: if he’s not interested enough to start non-basketball related conversations with me via email, why would that change via text? I can’t make him interested. Can I? I mean, other than looking perfect and smiling and staring... I’ve thought long and hard about whether I want to be that kind of woman. The one who chases. I’ve never, ever been her.

 

So I will give myself just a little bit more time to read him, and more chances to show him how I feel. I can’t go out on a limb here. He’s an attractive guy I’d like to sleep with - maybe that’s where it needs to end.

 

And yes, the clock is ticking... I hear it all the time.