Does it matter who files [for divorce]?

[norudder]

I am thinking of dreamwalkers thread, but one aspect specifically which is the element of whether your AP files or their BS and what that implies in terms of their feelings and the idea of being "chosen".

 

This is just as much a dysfunction as an affair itself imo.

If you meet someone single who was already divorced, it wouldn't be very significant. What would be significant is whether they had moved on or not and treated you well and their actions and words aligned and you knew what "I love you" meant between you two. He is not choosing you against one particular person he's already had a connection with if he's moved on, he'd be choosing you against the concept of other options, the potential of options not yet actually existing.

 

Many people get into monogamous relationships without choosing too. They just go along. I think that might be the case with a lot of WS. Passivity. That's a character trait to be aware of.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to be a "default" whether that had been with exmm (who I don't want to be with for many many other reasons) or with any single person I meet who may be a potential partner.

 

Do you think it matters to the next relationship, especially if that is a relationship transitioning from an affair, who files? Do you think passivity is reflection on strength of feelings or separate from it?

[Arieswoman]

norudder,

 

Many people get into monogamous relationships without choosing too. They just go along.

 

Hmmm ^^ not sure if I agree with the "not choosing" part.

 

Even if you do nothing, you have made a choice to do nothing.

 

Many people are scared of making a choice in case they make the "wrong" one.

WS's often won't choose because they want both the AP and the spouse.

They also know that whatever the choice, one party will be incredibly hurt and disappointed - and they don't want the responsibility/guilt of that.

 

So, not making a decision is actually committing to a certain path of action, and doing it in most ineffective way. Indecision is making the decision to walk off the soccer pitch while the game is still being played and abdicating any ability to affect its outcome.

Then if the team gets thrashed they can say "it's nothing to do with me, don't blame me" and in this way they try to absolve themselves of any guilt for the outcome.

 

When people struggle to make choices it's because they don't believe in their ability to think for themselves; they believe other people are more capable of making the “right” choice for them.

 

You ask;

Do you think it matters to the next relationship, especially if that is a relationship transitioning from an affair, who files?

 

It would appear to me from what I have read on LS that it does matter, but only to the AP who has been waiting in the wings. The WS is probably only too glad to have the decision taken out of their hands.

 

Do you think passivity is reflection on strength of feelings or separate from it?

 

Hmmmm, that's a difficult one.......I think that people may (claim to) experience great intensity of feelings - for an AP for example- but because of the factors mentioned above may be paralysed with indecision and just "spin their wheels" while, at the same time experiencing acute anxiety.

 

This trait will affect all aspects of their lives and very effectively keep them "stuck" is also sorts of non-productive situations.

 

^^^ These are some factors to be borne in mind when considering entering into a relationship with somone who vacillates on a regular basis.

[carhill]

Filing can be as much logistics as feelings. However, since most men despise change, a man filing for divorce is a significant act. I've only known a couple male friends who have and it was mainly due to strategies, at that time, for getting custody of their children in whole or part, something which was rare. One was a straight custody deal, wife cleaned him out but no cheating, the other was a WW and also two kids.

 

A MM may harbor guilt which often precludes being the petitioner (proactive party) in the divorce even if it is to his benefit to do so. A MM who does file IMO sends a clearer signal that his emotional attachment to the M is done and he's ready to move on, all else being equal. If he has substantial assets/income, no doubt he's getting professional help with strategies to protect himself and filing puts the respondent under the gun to answer or else a default can be petitioned. The petitioner controls the timeline.

 

IME with MW's, guys apparently never cared who filed. There was a new one, or dozen, presenting themselves as soon as she made herself available. The divorce stuff was just pesky legal machinations, no inhibition regarding social interaction and moving on romantically. Paperwork.

[PegNosePete]

From a practical point of view, the person who files is in the driving seat for the divorce and controls the timescale. Many stages in the divorce are dependent on the petitioner doing something. If the respondent stalls or refuses to co-operate then the petitioner can get around that, but the reverse is not true. Ironically if you want to stall or prevent the divorce going ahead, the best way is to get in there first and file. Usually it is best for the person who most wants the divorce to be the petitioner. If both want it then it makes no difference. Personally I would always prefer to be the petitioner because minds can change and people can get lazy, and I'd prefer to be the one controlling the divorce rather than potentially waiting on someone else to file paperwork.

 

In terms of feelings? It probably doesn't matter but if it does then it's on a case by case basis, I don't think you can make a generalisation.

 

Matters for the next relationship? Not one bit. The circumstances and reasons for the divorce are far more important than the logistics.

[Dreamwalker17]

Since my thread served as an inspiration, I’ll add his own explanation as to why he waited so long and refused to make a decision until decision was made for him - first by me, ending our affair, then by his wife, ending their marriage.

 

He said he couldn’t bring himself to tell straight to her face that he didn’t love her and was not even attracted to her anymore. Of course she felt it because he didn’t have to say it, he acted like it - so she finally ended it.

 

He says now he regrets it, seeing how it all played out. He was in love with me this whole time, but now our relationship is damaged. And he wasted two years of her life, that she could use for rebuilding her life without him and possibly meeting someone else who’d love her the way she deserves.

 

I mer her only once, and she is a beautiful woman, few years younger than me. There is absolutely nothing wrong or unattractive about her. But she ended up depressed and with damaged self esteem.

[minimariah]

Do you think it matters to the next relationship, especially if that is a relationship transitioning from an affair, who files?

 

i think it matters to insecure people. i said it before - insecure OWs tend to have this desire to be CHOSEN. it's more about their ego than anything else... so who files first matters to people who want to win over the marriage/first wife OR to those who seek some kind of confirmation that they are more important than the marriage/first wife, identifying that confirmation as proof of love.

 

Do you think passivity is reflection on strength of feelings or separate from it?

 

sometimes it's related - sometimes it's separate. passivity is reflection od character, not so much feelings. one can love their other person deeply and still not file for various reasons, circumstances. maybe they're weak, maybe they feel scared of losing their kids. also - someone filing first doesn't mean that their love is real, strong as they can use the A as easy exit/something to help them out.

 

a MM being "dumped" by the wife doesn't mean that he loves the OW less or that his love for the OW isn't real.

[Fair]

It matters. The one who doesn't file is usually the one who didn't want the marriage to end. Men will tell you they don't care if their wives initiated the divorce. Trust me, they care.

 

I always asked when on OLD who initiated the divorce, because I've come to learn it's a key question. The guy invariably always says she did... and that answer alone now makes me want to turn and walk away.

[hippychick3]

There are way too many assumptions going on here.

 

In my case, it didn't matter at all. In fact, the one who filed is the one who did NOT want the divorce. I wanted my divorce. My ex desperately but unsuccessfully tried to talk me out of it. He finally accepted it, but it was decided that we would wait a couple months to file due to financial and children logistics. When it came time to file, he asked if I wanted him to do it or if I wanted to do it myself. Since I was leaving town with the kids to visit my family for a week, I told him to go ahead and do it. The day he went to the courthouse to file, he called me crying and begging me to change my mind. When I did not change my mind, he went ahead and filed for us.

 

It does NOT always matter.

Edited January 12, 2018 by hippychick3

[alphamale]

the person who files for divorce is more motivated to get out of the marriage

[Arieswoman]

In my situation I had had 4 months of his odd behaviour, sullking, snide remarks etc while denying anything was wrong.

 

Eventually I told him I'd had enough and I was leaving and he blurted out that "he didn't love me any more".

 

I was heartbroken but put wheels in motion to leave, getting brochures from Estate Agents, looking at houses, getting my financial affairs in order etc.

 

It got near Christmas and I said I wasn't going to his parents as we'd planned. He begged me to go because "he didn't want them to be upset over Christmas". So I fell for that guilt trip and we went. It was two of the most miserable days of my life with him glued to the TV and talking in monosyllables.

 

Then he started saying that "he might learn to love me again" and would I come back into the main bedroom. (This was a ploy to butter me up and get his washing and cooking done again.)

 

DD followed after another month (it was a fluke I found out) and he got the divorce papers the next week. When they landed on the mat he flew into a rage saying "I won't let you divorce me !"

 

He filibustered all throught he divorce, dragging his feet answering solicitors letters, refusing to come over to show people around the house (which was now up for sale) wouldn't empty his tools out of the workshop, wouldn't redirect his mail etc etc.

 

I believe that, like most cheaters my exH wanted to have both of us until it suited his time frame to choose. I had removed his power of choice and was now controlling the timescale which really stuck in his craw.

 

It would appear that he wanted me around as a "sexual housekeeper" until he made his mind up what to do.

 

All of this says a great deal about him and his ability to use people for his own ends.

 

As soon as I got the divorce papers I sent OW a copy with a note saying "Congratulations sweetie, you just won yourself a spineless cheater and liar! Have fun with my cast-offs !"

It must have mattered to her because she promptly dumped him and went back to her fiance who was in the dark about it all.

 

I told the fiance and he dumped her. She went running back to exH. 4 years later they got married as she was pregnant.

 

From what I was told by others OW is/was very aware that she wasn't chosen and it has always bugged her. She's also found out that he has to be pushed into every decision. She doesn't trust him and I understand has anxiety issues on a regular basis.

 

Had he let me go when I wanted to leave, instead of manipulating me to stay in the marriage, it would have been far less acrimonious and I wouldn't have wasted 4 months of my life.

 

I was prepared to move to another town, buy my own place and get on with my life. I may not have ever found out about OW.

 

--------------------------------

 

When I was divorced and involved with OLD I never entertained any guy who had either been a WS or had not been the one to file for divorce.

[PegNosePete]

The guy invariably always says she did... and that answer alone now makes me want to turn and walk away.

IMO that's a bit of an unfair judgement without context. What if she had an affair and filed on him out of the blue? Assuming it was sufficiently long ago and feelings have gone, he did nothing wrong, and that shouldn't be a red flag.

[sandylee1]

I think it's not purely about who files...but who made the decision to call time and end the marriage.

 

I think OWs really feel like the special ones when the MM files. It's like he has chosen me over his wife.

 

So there isn't that feeling of being chosen... if the betrayed spouse kicks the cheater out. You get the cheater by default... and that wouldn't make me feel so good tbh.

 

I'm most cases the MM wants both wife and OW. Making a choice isn't what they want... as conflict avoidant and somewhat spineless characters.

[alphamale]

"sexual housekeeper"

 

[Arieswoman]

In a friend of mine's case her WS was decisive. He told her that he met someone else and was leaving.

 

They split the assets and he went to live with OW.

 

After about 6 months my friend decided she'd had enough of being in limbo, marriage-wise and decided to file for divorce.

 

She took a bus into town (she didn't drive) and he followed the bus in his car, leaning out of the window shouting "You'll regret this !" and issuing other threats.

 

The bus driver called the police and he was arrested just before she got off at the solicitor's office.

 

None of us could see the logic in such stupid behaviour, after all, he'd got what he wanted , but it seemed it certainly bothered him that she'd petitioned first. Maybe he still wanted to keep his options open ?

 

Sadly she was diagnosed with breast cancer shortly after the divorce and died 2 years later. Many years later he married OW.

[norudder]

 

I'm most cases the MM wants both wife and OW. Making a choice isn't what they want... as conflict avoidant and somewhat spineless characters.

 

I agree with this. So no matter who files (in the case of affairs) this is who you are with which duh, should be obvious if it's an affair you're having and they aren't quick to realign their behavior to their values and act.

 

In either case (affair or non), more important than who filed is their current mental and emotional state/availability for a relationship and knowing who they are (values) and what they want, and why. Not just *who* they want.

[sandylee1]

In a friend of mine's case her WS was decisive. He told her that he met someone else and was leaving.

 

They split the assets and he went to live with OW.

 

After about 6 months my friend decided she'd had enough of being in limbo, marriage-wise and decided to file for divorce.

 

She took a bus into town (she didn't drive) and he followed the bus in his car, leaning out of the window shouting "You'll regret this !" and issuing other threats.

 

The bus driver called the police and he was arrested just before she got off at the solicitor's office.

 

None of us could see the logic in such stupid behaviour, after all, he'd got what he wanted , but it seemed it certainly bothered him that she'd petitioned first. Maybe he still wanted to keep his options open ?

 

Sadly she was diagnosed with breast cancer shortly after the divorce and died 2 years later. Many years later he married OW.

 

This is a case of the MM wanting to be in control. He probably didn't want to split the assets...which would have been all his if she passed away BEFORE they got divorced.

[littleblackheart]

IME, it doesn't matter who files first. My exH is an abusive bully and stalled at every corner when I first filed for divorce. He got served twice, sat on it for months on end knowing full well I didn't yet have the mental strength to go for a fault divorce. We'd already been separated a while before I filed and he'd tried every trick to get me to change my mind.

 

When he realised I wouldn't, he took charge and acted like the divorce was his initiative. I didn't care, I just wanted shot of him. I signed and sent the papers back the same day I received them. He never wanted a joint account during the marriage (made sense as he wouldn't pay for anything anyway) and has no particular interest in looking after the kids. Other than not being with him, what helped in my case is the fact he was the petitioner in a way ensured maintenance was paid.

 

I didn't ask for alimony (I'm employed and wanted nothing from him) so I really had nothing to gain or lose from petitioning. I knew that him being the petitioner would be the only way for me to divorce him.

 

If your end goal is to divorce, especially if the divorce is acrimonious, let the other party be the petitioner if it's a matter of pride to them, especially when they are abusive.

Edited January 12, 2018 by littleblackheart

[Dreamwalker17]

Women initiate about 70% of divorces in US. So this fits right into affair dynamics - MW are much more likely to leave their husbands, and MM are much more likely to stay married.

[mikeylo]

In big scheme of things, it doesn't matter who files.

 

I've seen people who file but didn't want divorce ( act of manipulation to threaten divorce and then hold the power to take it back or not ) but when it went ahead, they ended up having a divorce they didn't want ! because the other wanted and it was too late to take it back.

 

The one who files does have the power to drag it!

[Gr8fuln2020]

Women initiate about 70% of divorces in US. So this fits right into affair dynamics - MW are much more likely to leave their husbands, and MM are much more likely to stay married.

 

I fall in the 30%. I pushed for the divorce. There was no affair.

Edited January 14, 2018 by simpleNfit

[AngryGromit]

From a practical point of view, the person who files is in the driving seat for the divorce and controls the timescale. Many stages in the divorce are dependent on the petitioner doing something. If the respondent stalls or refuses to co-operate then the petitioner can get around that, but the reverse is not true. Ironically if you want to stall or prevent the divorce going ahead, the best way is to get in there first and file.

 

I wasn't aware of this, so basically the petitioner can stall the divorce process in theory forever? Can the respondent file themselves if the petitioner stall too long?

[PegNosePete]

I wasn't aware of this, so basically the petitioner can stall the divorce process in theory forever? Can the respondent file themselves if the petitioner stall too long?

The exact procedure differs in different parts of the world but the general gist is usually the same.

 

No, the respondent can't file because there is already a petition for the dissolution of their marriage. If the petitioner is taking unreasonably long time to progress the divorce then the respondent should apply to have the first petition dismissed due to lack of progression. Once the 1st one is dismissed they are free to file themselves.

 

Unless of course, the original petitioner suddenly submits one piece of paperwork when the respondent first files to have their petition dismissed! Then you're back to square one.

 

I'd very much recommend seeing a lawyer if you find yourself in this situation. Trying to DIY it would probably just make it worse.