Does persistence mean real love?

[Cookiesandough]

Yeah yeah, I know I said I'd go and I will, I just have been really bothered by something the last few days. I needed to return to get it off my chest.

 

On Sunday night I had a date with a man that turned clingy. The next day I told him "we are not a match". Basically, he sent around 30 texts in row saying he knows I still want it, give it a chance. I wasn't sure what to think, so I blocked. Yesterday I received 3 mysterious phone calls I didn't answer and 3 text message screenshots via the app we met on of a conversation he had with his friend. He is telling him how he messed up by overtexting me, he tends to do that when he's excited about a person and nothing makes him go crazy like being ignored. His friend said that's a classic mistake. He also wrote that he possibly lost half of his employees. at his job. His friend extended his condolences. He said to his friend "yeah but ****ing things up with [my name] was just too much for me to handle yesterday and i had a meltdown"

 

Then after those screenshots were sent, he wrote it was the worst day of his life and he barely managed to sleep. He said please have do-over and this cannot seriously be the end can it?

 

The ordeal was so traumatic I cancelled the other date I had planned and I've just been trying to focus on studying but it's hard because this person's words really impacted me.

 

 

I either have gone bat**** insane or I really am passing up on something important.

 

I say this because I am aware this guy can get laid quite easily. I see he's got a lot of girls following/liking. The way he is acting is such a juxtaposition to his attitude when we we first started hanging. So why is he acting so desperate if there really wasn't a connection? Why is he so adamant about there being a connection? I also saw he put our astrological star sign's compatibility info on his Instagram. Who does that ?

 

A person that cares. Crazy person? Probably. But they must care. I am crazy too at times. And everyone knows that there's a certain feeling when you meet someone you like. I know feelings can feel smothering and suffocating when we don't see it at first or are going at a different pace than the other person. And it can feel smothering and suffocating when you are happy being free/single, but maybe that all just take some adjusting to.

 

And to be honest, I looked at some pictures on his instagram, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but he's still pretty attractive to me. I could probably still be attracted to him if he is honest when he says he will stop being this way. I was really attracted at one point.

 

 

I feel bad for not giving him a shot. I feel guilty. Especially if it's true it was spurred on by possibly losing half his employees. Like maybe this is what I need at this point. I spent so much time running from it and blocking and ignoring people who persisted and it never got me anywhere. I just run in circles. I feel if I skip out on this I'll just be repeating history.... only liking it when people seem unavailable. And afterall, how bad could it be to just keep dating him? It's just a date

Edited January 17, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

I'm afraid that's not a consequence of caring. Google love bombing. Usually people that act like him have a hidden agenda. I fell into this trap once. The guy turned to be a con artist who mooched off me 7-8 grand in few months. Not saying this will be the end game of this guy but from what you described - he has an end game and you don't want to know what it is :/

[Cookiesandough]

I'm afraid that's not a consequence of caring. Google love bombing. Usually people that act like him have a hidden agenda. I fell into this trap once. The guy turned to be a con artist who mooched off me 7-8 grand in few months. Not saying this will be the end game of this guy but from what you described - he has an end game and you don't want to know what it is :/

 

Thank you so much, No_Go

I know you have been lovebombed

 

I've been reading a lot of articles from google. I read some that said men fall in love faster a lot of times, especially when they have just exited a relationship or they are looking for relationship. They tend to know what traits they're looking for. I also saw that love at first sight can even be real. It's a weird mixture of chemicals going off in your brain.

 

Then I read about 'lovebombing' because I feel like that's the most likely explanation, that you are right. But how can you tell the difference? Does what I wrote sound familiar to what you experienced with your guy? What tripped me up is that he has our astrological signs compatibility on instagram and I don't even look there. He doesn't really know I mean. It shook me.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

How you tell the difference? Trust your gut. I knew that something was off but didn't want to trust my gut back then because I was lonely. It was one of the costliest mistakes I've made...

 

Love from first sight happens. I've experienced it, probably you did too? I think it is very different from love bombing in a way that you care extremely for the well being of the person, even if their goals do not match yours. The fact that he's disrespectful (not backing off even after you blocked him) to me is a red flag... I think if it was a love at first sight he'd be more considerate to your feelings and pace.

 

I've been reading a lot of articles from google. I read some that said men fall in love faster a lot of times, especially when they have just exited a relationship or they are looking for relationship. They tend to know what traits they're looking for. I also saw that love at first sight can even be real. It's a weird mixture of chemicals going off in your brain.

 

Then I read about 'lovebombing' because I feel like that's the most likely explanation, that you are right. But how can you tell the difference? Does what I wrote sound familiar to what you experienced with your guy? What tripped me up is that he has our astrological signs compatibility on instagram and I don't even look there. He doesn't really know I look there at least. It shook me.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

What tripped me up is that he has our astrological signs compatibility on instagram and I don't even look there. He doesn't really know I mean. It shook me.

 

Well, he assumed you looked there and he was right.

 

Do you think you would have been more compatible if you had taken things a lot slower? Say, just had coffee and said goodnight instead of going back to his place, and not paying him so many compliments, etc.? I think what you said before is true....you manipulate to get him to pay attention to you, but when it works, when he takes the bait, you're like "ohhhhh crap.....I didn't want THIS much attention..." and you run.

 

To answer your actual question, though, no, persistence does not mean real life. It more often means infatuation.

[Cookiesandough]

How you tell the difference? Trust your gut. I knew that something is off but didn't want to trust my gut back then because I was lonely. It was one of the costliest mistakes I've made...

 

Love from first sight happens. I've experienced it, probably you did too? I think it is very different from love bombing in a way that you care extremely for the well being of the person, even if their goals do not match yours. The fact that he's disrespectful (not backing off even after you blocked him) to me is a red flag... I think if it was a love at first sight he'd be more considerate to your feelings and pace.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Thanks for warning me.

I'm actually extremely disturbed right now. I honestly do not feel like going on another date with a man ever again. That's how disturbed I feel. I cannot even talk to other guys. My gut is freaked out but I feel like maybe I am wrong all the time. I'll stay studying and away from this guy. You've convinced me. It is manipulation. He's putting blame on me for his emotional instability.

[No_Go]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. Thanks for warning me.

I'm actually extremely disturbed right now. I honestly do not feel like going on another date with a man ever again. That's how disturbed I feel. I cannot even talk to other guys. My gut is freaked out but I feel like maybe I am wrong all the time. I'll stay studying and away from this guy. You've convinced me. It is manipulation. He's putting blame on me for his emotional instability.

 

If this will be of help - see here my thread for the guy that conned me: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/494725-live-boyfriend-left-now-what and the consequences: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/504300-break-up-live-mooching-boyfriend

 

You'd see the patterns in behavior showing love bombing (moving extremely fast, not giving me space, then getting to his agenda :/ )

 

But Cookies don't despair. It is a bad apple, that's all. You'd find someone you click with sooner or later.

Edited January 17, 2018 by No_Go

[Cookiesandough]

If this will be of help - see here my thread for the guy that conned me: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/494725-live-boyfriend-left-now-what and the consequences: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/504300-break-up-live-mooching-boyfriend

 

You'd see the patterns in behavior showing love bombing (moving extremely fast, not giving me space, then getting to his agenda :/ )

 

But Cookies don't despair. It is a bad apple, that's all. You'd find someone you click with sooner or later.

 

Thank you, CA. I'd probably still be interested in him if that had happened. I can admit I came on strong to him. He even told me some of the things I said to him no one else has it stuck with him. But that could be more BS.

Oh my gosh, no_go. Thanks for these. I am going to read them entirely. This is just terrible. I wonder if because I am in a very difficult program that will pay well when I am out he sees me as a meal ticket. His job is ok, but nothing great. And now he's lost half his employees he manages??? And he wished me a good first day in my program. How eerie. I am going to read these now.

[RecentChange]

LOVE? No no no, none of this has to do with love. You two are practical strangers.

 

Infatuation? Yes, idealism? Yes. LOVE? That all enduring, through sickness and health, through ups and downs thing - No.

 

In fact, when things start out like this - they usually have short shelf life, as you can't live up to the pedestal he has placed you on. Just like you found out that the imagine you created in your mind is not the real him (you still do not know the real him).

 

He said to his friend "yeah but ****ing things up with [my name] was just too much for me to handle yesterday and i had a meltdown"

 

Then after those screenshots were sent, he wrote it was the worst day of his life and he barely managed to sleep. He said please have do-over and this cannot seriously be the end can it?

 

The ordeal was so traumatic I cancelled the other date I had planned and I've just been trying to focus on studying but it's hard because this person's words really impacted me.

 

Cookie - I have a MAJOR problem with this. Major. You already have out of control anxiety. You already have problems with small issues getting blow out of proportion.

 

This stuff, this stuff about a stranger guilting you about it being the "worst day of his life" is not cool, not cool at all.

 

Its manipulative. It shows he doesn't have much in the way of an emotional IQ.

 

This sort of drama, this sort of manipulation, this sort of unfounded consternation is NOT what you need in your life.

 

Honestly? I would see your ideal partner as a steady Eddy. Someone who can make you feel safe and secure. Someone who will have a calming vibe to ying to your nervous energy yang - not this guy.

 

This guy seems to reflect all the same anxieties etc that you have - look how much he has already negatively affected you.

 

You aren't even dating this guy, and his nervous energy is causing you to cancel plans and not be able to do your school work. What kind of mental state do you think you would be in if you were emotionally entangled with him?

 

Did he tell you those things to make you feel good? Or to manipulate you into feeling bad, so you let him have what he wants?

 

Think about that.

Edited January 17, 2018 by RecentChange

[SammySammy]

Persistence is often effective, but it doesn’t mean love.

[No_Go]

Thank you, CA. I'd probably still be interested in him if that had happened. I can admit I came on strong to him. He even told me some of the things I said to him no one else has it stuck with him. But that could be more BS.

Oh my gosh, no_go. Thanks for these. I am going to read them entirely. This is just terrible. I wonder if because I am in a very difficult program that will pay well when I am out he sees me as a meal ticket. His job is ok, but nothing great. And now he's lost half his employees he manages??? And he wished me a good first day in my program. How eerie. I am going to read these now.

 

The fact he mentioned losing his employees sounded like a red flag: what he is communicating is 'poor me - Cookies - pity me NOW or else'.

 

Thing happen but a row of 'bad events' happening to someone and sharing them willingly with a stranger (you) is strictly a sign of a brewing con.

 

Btw his end game can be different (e.g. sex not money) but it really doesn't matter... The idea behind is: manipulation.

 

P.S. in the end of the second thread I shared you'd see the story of the next gf of my ex (yep, she reached out after he stole from her as well and physically assaulted her when she said something............)

[preraph]

I find persistence annoying. I find it controlling and pushy, once you've let someone know it's not on.

[RecentChange]

Persistence is often effective, but it doesn’t mean love.

 

Exactly... look at how many abusers are very "persistent".

 

Honestly, persistence in the face of rejection shows a lack of respect for your free will. It shows that they do not value or honor your choice, but rather, persist in trying to change you to theirs.

 

Ever hear "if you love someone, set them free"? Persistence, unless we are talking about, lets say, persistently trying to help an addict recover their lives, is usually a selfish thing.

 

Its about not wanting to let go of what they want. Its not about your interest, its about theirs.

[CptInsano]

Look at what has changed. Nothing, he is communicating with you even though you made it clear that you wish not to. I'm not sure how love factors into that.

 

And you are thinking about how attractive he looks after you rushed in and backed out. I'm afraid you've been there before.

[Cookiesandough]

LOVE? No no no, none of this has to do with love. You two are practical strangers.

 

Infatuation? Yes, idealism? Yes. LOVE? That all enduring, through sickness and health, through ups and downs thing - No.

 

In fact, when things start out like this - they usually have short shelf life, as you can't live up to the pedestal he has placed you on. Just like you found out that the imagine you created in your mind is not the real him (you still do not know the real him).

 

 

 

Cookie - I have a MAJOR problem with this. Major. You already have out of control anxiety. You already have problems with small issues getting blow out of proportion.

 

This stuff, this stuff about a stranger guilting you about it being the "worst day of his life" is not cool, not cool at all.

 

Its manipulative. It shows he doesn't have much in the way of an emotional IQ.

 

This sort of drama, this sort of manipulation, this sort of unfounded consternation is NOT what you need in your life.

 

Honestly? I would see your ideal partner as a steady Eddy. Someone who can make you feel safe and secure. Someone who will have a calming vibe to ying to your nervous energy yang - not this guy.

 

This guy seems to reflect all the same anxieties etc that you have - look how much he has already negatively affected you.

 

You aren't even dating this guy, and his nervous energy is causing you to cancel plans and not be able to do your school work. What kind of mental state do you think you would be in if you were emotionally entangled with him?

 

Did he tell you those things to make you feel good? Or to manipulate you into feeling bad, so you let him have what he wants?

 

Think about that.

 

 

Thank you so much. You guys said exactly what I needed to hear to try to brush this all off and going to try to forget about this. I unmatched and my focus has already returned a bit. My title is horrible but was a reflection of how mindeffed I was by the desperate attempts to keep dating

 

But damn, No_Go

Edited January 17, 2018 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

Great! Now you can focus on better things, not manipulators. Just another lesson learned:)

[Imajerk17]

You told him you don't think it was a match, and instead of moving on he says it is "the worst day of" his life--after a girl he went on **one date with** kindly says no thanks, and you think it is love??

 

This guy's behaviour is somewhere between desperado and psycho.

 

You blocked many many guys you should not have blocked, but the one guy that you indeed *should have* blocked, you so far decided not to. Do you realize how backwards your this all is?

Edited January 17, 2018 by Imajerk17

[d0nnivain]

Persistence is 2 maybe 3 follow ups / requests for one more chance.

 

 

30? That's borderline psychotic. Also if him pestering you is what turned you off, how on earth can more pestering cause you to feel guilty & have you wondering if you made the right decision? You need to know your own mind. That very important component seems to be the common denominator of what's missing every time you have one of these misadventures.

[Shepp]

I can hold my hands up and say I was incredibly persistent when it came to my wife. Incredibly persistent!

 

But I was never was never clingy or controlling!

 

That's the difference!

 

I was persistent when i waited a very long time for a girl who was my best friend but just wasn't ready - that was love

 

Bombarding a girl after a few dates professing your love or heartbreak or whatever - that, in my book, is desperate at best, and creepy at worst!

[Popsicle]

I LOVE persistence from men.

[preraph]

He answered your question for you. "nothing makes him go crazy like being ignored." Good looking guy, has no trouble getting women, but that one pretty girl (you) wasn't interested. My guess is that's all it is. His pride won't accept the denial.

 

It has been my experience that this sort of thing works on the ladies too. I have punched above my pay grade with some very attractive women just by playing it cool and appearing uninterested. Drives some people nuts.

 

And it goes beyond that it makes them nuts. For people who are widely sought after, they get a lot of desperate clingers that make their lives miserable, so if they find one that doesn't push and has their own life and interests, it's a relief to them and they are more likely to get involved, but they'll be cautious. And more true with men than women, hunting is innate in some men, in their genes, and the ones who never have to hunt get tired of having women throw themselves at them and welcome one who they can chase a little.

[nospam99]

Cookies, I've seen a lot of your posts. I don't think this self-doubt is the real, inner you. This guy (and his whine about losing his workers)? I'll quote the esteemed Gregory House: 'Everyone lies'. You may have preemptively blocked guys in the past and missed opportunities. Determine to do better going forward. Take advice from the LS ladies (not the misandrists, not me either - wrong gender and wrong age. I'm having enough trouble navigating dating on 'senior' terrain ).

[GuitarGuy7]

Iv'e seen studies where it says that men tend to fall in love faster and are much more likely to have that love at first sight feeling. It's really common for men to see a girl they find attractive and automatically be won over.

 

This is probably why he reacted the way he did despite him being physically attractive and having plenty of other options. He saw you and immediately became infatuated with you, and then combined with you two matching, going on a date, and you deciding to go home with him and make out with him, that probably got him excited and thinking "oh my god, she's the one, this is the start of a relationship!"

 

But then he got rejected, got ghosted and ignored. So now in his mind, he's hurt because "the one" walked away. He's thinking "noooo she can't reject me, she's the one for me, we were meant to be together" He feels like he wasn't given a chance to prove how great of a guy he is.

 

So like many guys before him, he begs the girl for a second chance. Because now he's thinking "well if she just gives me a chance, i'll show her how great of a guy I am"

Edited January 18, 2018 by GuitarGuy7

[todreaminblue]

i class persistence as being aggressive like wasps dont give up when they want to sting you.......endurance perseverance is different i feel ...its when you respect a person enough to wait calmly patiently for that person withotu making them feel guilt or obligated............if you feel its right to because its feel like the thing you should do si wait because you actually cant see yourself dating someone else..................not to bombard them...hang outside their house, turn up everyday with ulterior motives covered in flimsy excuses..... wait for them on the doorstep of their work ....follow them home in a car calling out crap after work...like please give me a chance....prank calling your phone in the middle of the night..2 in the morning and all bloody day.......or sending 30 messages to your phone in one day....deb

[Cookiesandough]

No_go, what a nightmare. so it turned it out really to be his ex?

 

Thank you. I just want to make one last thing clear. When I said his job is "ok not great" I meant that he has a good job, but he is not raking in the money(I won't be making a ton either)I'm not disrespecting his work. That only matters if he is trying to manipulate me into giving him money. I've been panicked so words are not coming out right.

 

I've never really dated really conventionally attractive guys besides my ex because I have this feeling they are high maintenance and full of themselves. He totally is, but we had a lot in common and he was witty so I thought I'd give it a shot. I made a huge mistake.

 

You guys helped me a lot. I will go back into my hole now.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Cookiesandough