#MeToo and an OW's experience

[lemondrop21]

Mods - I request that you not merge this with another of my threads, as it's meant to be a standalone post. It isn't a continuation of my story; rather, I'd like to know if anyone else relates to my feelings about the #MeToo movement and being an OW, and I'd like to have a discussion about the psychology behind that, not just about my particular situation.

 

---

 

I start with a message to BS's - you are, without question, the biggest victims in an affair triangle, and I am so sorry for your pain, and recognize it as superior to my own. The following post may offend some of you, but I hope it won't, as it isn't intended that way at all.

 

---

 

The #MeToo movement has triggered certain emotions in me. A certain familiarity and empathy for the victims, based largely on feelings that came up for me very early on in the affair. I will clearly state right now that I am NOT a victim of sexual assault or rape by xMM, and to the victims of sexual assault and/or rape - I am by NO MEANS presenting our situations as comparable. They aren't. I was a willing participant in the affair. You were not willing participants in your abuse.

 

But there is a pattern of behavior - "grooming" - that some (not all) MM follow. It really does a number on you, psychologically. And some of the abusers, who #MeToo has exposed, use similar tactics.

 

Hearing the victims of Dr. Nassar (the Olympic gymnastics coach) speak was especially poignant to me. He made each girl feel special, bringing them treats and doting on them. He was a trusted member of the community. It was unimaginable that he could actually be a predator.

 

xMM "groomed" me over time. Including me in meetings. Inviting me to coffee, then to lunch. Gradually delving into conversations about our personal lives. I was so incredibly naive. I had literally no clue - none whatsoever - what he was doing, until the day he called me to his office (lil' ole me! The chosen one!) and told me he really liked me and wanted to get to know me better. Go ahead and call me foolish and blind, but the thought never occurred to me. He was a married family man, and I had never questioned the actions or intentions of married family men - not towards me, anyway. It was the first time I had experienced anything like that.

 

So at the start of the affair, I believed his every word. Even though I felt twisted and sick inside, I believed he loved me, that he no longer loved his wife in the same way, that he intended to separate from her, that the marriage was dead long ago. This allowed me some mental space initially, to excuse both my actions, and his.

 

During those first couple months and especially the first couple weeks, I had moments of feeling practically powerless. You could have walked away at any time, I hear people screaming. I know. I screamed and swore at myself to do so. But somehow I felt held captive by him, mentally. I still don't fully understand where that feeling came from, and it's hard to put into words. But it was as though I had been chosen.

 

I wasn't able to contact him when I wanted to, and that mere fact, in the beginning, sucked me in even further. I was a secret, and that secrecy made me special. It also made me angry and upset.

 

I railed against that feeling, and then I succumbed to it, and then I railed against it again. My mind was often filled with imaginary scenes where he would grab me by the wrists and I would be pulling away, screaming, sobbing, trying to fight, but then eventually, I would give in. And then he would turn warm, soothing, and reassuring, wiping away my tears.

 

So, even while I was fully aware of my actions and choices, aware of his marital status, and so on, I was groomed for the affair. And when I hear the #MeToo victims tell their stories, a small part of me whispers a secret "me too." Not as bad. Not rape or assault. But some part of that poisonous, emotionally corrupting experience... I get it. Me Too.

Edited January 29, 2018 by lemondrop21
Added a note to mods

[Toots]

I'd like to know if anyone else relates to my feelings about the #MeToo movement and being an OW, and I'd like to have a discussion about the psychology behind that, not just about my particular situation.

 

Not me. I’ve been an OW. I’ve been sexually harassed and sexually assaulted. It’s just not comparable IMO. Maybe the American gymnast coach groomed his victims, but not all harassment or sexual assault involves grooming. Not all EMRs involve grooming either.

 

My xMM approached me adult to adult. I agreed as a consenting adult. This was nothing like harassment. I did not consent to being harassed by colleagues just because I am a woman. I did not consent to being groped at work because I am a woman. I did not consent to being threatened at work with losing my job if I did not comply with sexual demands by a former boss at work. Those were done against my will by people who had power over me or physically threatened me. The EMR was very different. We were adults. We both chose freely.

[lemondrop21]

Not me. I’ve been an OW. I’ve been sexually harassed and sexually assaulted. It’s just not comparable IMO. Maybe the American gymnast coach groomed his victims, but not all harassment or sexual assault involves grooming. Not all EMRs involve grooming either.

 

My xMM approached me adult to adult. I agreed as a consenting adult. This was nothing like harassment. I did not consent to being harassed by colleagues just because I am a woman. I did not consent to being groped at work because I am a woman. I did not consent to being threatened at work with losing my job if I did not comply with sexual demands by a former boss at work. Those were done against my will by people who had power over me or physically threatened me. The EMR was very different. We were adults. We both chose freely.

Thank you for your perspective, Toots. I appreciate it and hope that my words didn't offend you. And I'm sorry for the abuse you've endured.

[Imajerk17]

Sorry but this thread illustrates an attitude of still not taking responsibility for your part in the affair even after all these years--despite your caveats and whatnot to the contrary. You were NOT a victim. You were not even 'kind of' a victim. A woman who stepped into an affair WILLINGLY cannot compare herself *in any way* to a **pre-adolescent girl** who actually was physically violated. Not even 'kind of sort of'.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Imajerk17

[lemondrop21]

Sorry but this thread illustrates an attitude of still not taking responsibility for your part in the affair even after all these years--despite your caveats and whatnot to the contrary. You were NOT a victim. A woman who stepped into an affair WILLINGLY cannot compare herself *in any way* to someone who actually was physically violated.

Respect your opinion on this although I think you're misunderstanding me a bit.

 

I absolutely take responsibility for my part in the affair - from the minute I stepped into it, I bore some of the responsibility, as a consenting adult. That is correct. But some of the feelings, IMO, were different than someone who was also out looking for an affair, because of the way in which he sucked me in and prepped me to become his OW before I knew what was going on.

 

It's frustrating because it's really difficult - practically impossible - to explain those feelings to someone who hasn't been in a similar situation.

[Imajerk17]

Respect your opinion on this although I think you're misunderstanding me a bit.

 

I absolutely take responsibility for my part in the affair - from the minute I stepped into it, I bore some of the responsibility, as a consenting adult. That is correct. But some of the feelings, IMO, were different than someone who was also out looking for an affair, because of the way in which he sucked me in and prepped me to become his OW before I knew what was going on.

 

It's frustrating because it's really difficult - practically impossible - to explain those feelings to someone who hasn't been in a similar situation.

 

Sucked you in?? You weren't sucked in. What you had was a MUTUALLY consenting relationship, at each step of the way.

 

Other people walked away from this very type of temptation, why couldn't you.

 

How could you possibly compare yourself to a **pre-teen* girl who was actually physically violated?

Edited January 29, 2018 by Imajerk17

[lemondrop21]

Sucked you in?? You weren't sucked in. What you had was a MUTUALLY consenting relationship, at each step of the way.

 

How could you possibly compare yourself to a **pre-teen* girl who was actually physically violated?

 

I take your point about comparing to pre-adolescent girls; it was not my intent at all, in using the Nassar example, to equate that sort of experience to mine at all, and it was a poor example.

 

Here is maybe a more apt comparison: all of the women who actually slept with Harvey Weinstein willingly, as consenting adults, because he took them under his wing when they were aspiring actresses and vulnerable to being sucked in by his fame and reputation. We don't hear from those women, because they are too afraid/embarrassed/ashamed to admit that they weren't strong enough to walk away from the situation. But they were groomed for it and manipulated to a certain extent. Not victims like those who were raped. But something was still off about the situation.

[Imajerk17]

I take your point about comparing to pre-adolescent girls; it was not my intent at all, in using the Nassar example, to equate that sort of experience to mine at all, and it was a poor example.

 

Here is maybe a more apt comparison: all of the women who actually slept with Harvey Weinstein willingly, as consenting adults, because he took them under his wing when they were aspiring actresses and vulnerable to being sucked in by his fame and reputation. We don't hear from those women, because they are too afraid/embarrassed/ashamed to admit that they weren't strong enough to walk away from the situation. But they were groomed for it and manipulated to a certain extent. Not victims like those who were raped. But something was still off about the situation.

 

No that STILL shows a lack of taking responsibility.

 

'I couldn't walk away! I was groomed! Big Bad MM used the Magic Words on me!

Meanwhile, your MM was not Harvey Weinstein. He couldn't make you a star with the wave of his hand. Correct me if I am mistaken but there wasn't that much of a difference in professional power between the two of you. And looking back on your Opening Post on your last thread, you admitted yourself to being clear-eyed about how wrong the situation was and how you missed the feelings, and then you willingly walked back into affair with MM.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/527917-coming-out-affair-fog-update-lemon-2-years-later

 

Post #1.

 

So I find the idea of you saying Me Too in this situation to be...well distasteful.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Imajerk17

[wmacbride]

I could be wrong op, but I m getting the sense that you are sharing your experience more a a cautionary tale than an abdication of responsibility.

 

Sort of a "if a mm/mw does these sorts of things/acts in these ways, there could be more to it than just professional respect or interest...be careful".

 

That's a good warning for anyone.

[OneLov]

I think this comparison hinges on his intent.

 

Do you believe that at all times he was wooing you with the intent to act in a very specific manner to achieve a very specific goal? Or do you think he was along for and enjoying the ride until he saw the brick wall ahead and bailed once he realized he was about to crash?

 

Here's an analogy. When I was younger, we used to go to this wave pool that had high diving platforms. One summer I convinced myself I was going to jump off the tallest one. For weeks I talked about how I was going to do it--I told everyone. People asked if I was scared, and I emphatically told them I was not. I was not lying, I believed that when I got to the edge I would not be afraid.

 

I had every single intention to do it. I was even incredibly excited and could not sleep the night before because I was going to do it. When I finally got up on the platform and up to the edge, I looked down. 45 feet never seemed higher. I chickened out.

 

Now I was not lying about wanting to take the plunge nor was it my intention to not jump when I was telling everyone. When I told everyone I was not afraid, I was not. I believed my own bull****.

 

I guess I would ask you if you believe he was a calculated player or just some guy naive enough to believe his own bull****? In other words, do you believe he believed he was going to leave his primary relationship, but when he got to the metaphoric ledge chickened out? Or do you think that he was pulling your strings like a puppeteer and worked harder than most would ever need to for some cheap sex? Basically, he doing it for the LOLZ?

[skywriter]

posted May 14, 2015 by:Lemondrop21

 

I'm not married, but was in a five year relationship that just ended (no children). The relationship had been rocky for many months, mainly due to the fact that I wasn't sure I wanted to go ahead with getting married to my (now ex) boyfriend, for a variety of reasons related to incompatibility (all of this was pre-MM). But he did want to get engaged, so I was under a lot of pressure. This was part of what made me so vulnerable to MM.

 

I do think that this short-lived affair underscored the fact that I was unhappy in my relationship - even though I of course have no proof that MM would have offered me more happiness in a real relationship (probably wouldn't have). But the existence of such a strong fantasy life that I created in my mind, was really powerful and jarring to me.

 

 

Not making excuses for poor choices, but being vulnerable can and will be a factor in poor choices.

[imsosad]

Lemon, so glad to see you!

I get what you're saying.

It wasn't my particular experience, but I've come to know many people involved in affairs and I recognize the grooming undertones you're talking about.

[norudder]

I get what you're saying. *Some* MM are unhealthy in ways that extend beyond the fact they are having an affair and into how they treat women in general. Without respect. It seems from yes selfishness, also misogyny, and not just lack of boundaries which are in affairs by definition, but in some an extreme lack of boundaries which begin to violate individual dignity.

 

Because a person willingly enters a consensual relationship, they do not void all rights as a person because it is an affair. Abused women stay in consensual monogamous relationships often. Do you blame her for not leaving after the first time? After that point is it her fault? Some people say yes . I think it's more complex than that

 

Perhaps it's different perspective and understanding of psychological power and control dynamics. It is not always just about the job or age or socio economic differential.

 

Exmm started treating me in a way no woman should tolerate from any man, single, married, bf ,fwb, coworker, anyone. I was wrong to be in an affair, I've paid consequences and took accountability. It doesn't mean I "deserved" it because I was in an affair. Where would that line of thinking end?

 

I do not compare it to assault or harassment. The metoo movement is an opportunity for more discussion and education about healthy relationships, respect, consent, in general.

[Els]

I could be wrong op, but I m getting the sense that you are sharing your experience more a a cautionary tale than an abdication of responsibility.

 

Sort of a "if a mm/mw does these sorts of things/acts in these ways, there could be more to it than just professional respect or interest...be careful".

 

That's a good warning for anyone.

 

I agree, I think it was an interesting read and a good cautionary tale (though I do agree that the preteen comparison wasn't the best one). Also glad that the OP has managed to move on.

[stillafool]

I think the difference between the gymnasts and OW is that those girls were minors, children who didn't know what was going on. OW are grown women who know that if a man is married he is not available for a relationship with them. It is then up to them to decline and walk away. To say you were being groomed makes it sound as if you don't have a brain of your own to guide you from what is right or wrong. It makes you sound like some weak wimp who is so desperate for affection that they can't make a sound decision.

[OneLov]

OW are grown women who know that if a man is married he is not available for a relationship with them.

 

I agree with what you are saying. I believe the OW in the situation ultimately is responsible for her actions. Although, I think Lemon is referring to dealing from a position of power and using that power to exploit a person who is vulnerable to exploitation.

 

Another personal example. After I broke up with my first long-term girlfriend, we continued to sleep together for a period of time. I always made it perfectly clear I never intended on getting back together. So when she would feel hurt and used after we had sex, at first I felt not responsibility. I felt she knew the score, so it was nobody's fault but hers.

 

However, my attitude changed. While the majority of the responsibility was on her for her own choices, I was also wrong. I was taking advantage of the fact she still had feelings for me and exploiting that vulnerability. Even though she knew and consented, it still was exploitation of a weakness. So I put the kibosh on the sex because it made me feel like a predator.

 

IMO, that is the side of the #MeToo movement Lemon is referring to.

 

But I also believe the majority of MM are caught up in the fantasy just as much as the OW. They are lying to her just as much as they're lying to themselves. It is when the affair bubble bursts and hearts get broken, do they realize they cannot make good on their promises. Because of that, I do not see most affairs as exploitative or comparable to the what women are expressing with #MeToo

Edited January 29, 2018 by OneLov

[lemondrop21]

I agree with what you are saying. I believe the OW in the situation ultimately is responsible for her actions. Although, I think Lemon is referring to dealing from a position of power and using that power to exploit a person who is vulnerable to exploitation.

 

Another personal example. After I broke up with my first long-term girlfriend, we continued to sleep together for a period of time. I always made it perfectly clear I never intended on getting back together. So when she would feel hurt and used after we had sex, at first I felt not responsibility. I felt she knew the score, so it was nobody's fault but hers.

 

However, my attitude changed. While the majority of the responsibility was on her for her own choices, I was also wrong. I was taking advantage of the fact she still had feelings for me and exploiting that vulnerability. Even though she knew and consented, it still was exploitation of a weakness. So I put the kibosh on the sex because it made me feel like a predator.

 

IMO, that is the side of the #MeToo movement Lemon is referring to.

 

But I also believe the majority of MM are caught up in the fantasy just as much as the OW. They are lying to her just as much as they're lying to themselves. It is when the affair bubble bursts and hearts get broken, do they realize they cannot make good on their promises. Because of that, I do not see most affairs as exploitative or comparable to the what women are expressing with #MeToo

 

Yes, this is a great example. Good for you for quitting the hook-ups with your ex; you did the right thing by her.

 

You asked about intent earlier, and I go back and forth about what his intent was. Sometimes I think he really did intend to leave his wife at the start, but other times I wonder if it was more calculated than that; if he’s actually a serial cheater who was feeding me lines. I try not to over-analyze it though as it doesn’t change the outcome... just have been thinking more about this lately, for whatever reason.

[BluesPower]

Sorry but this thread illustrates an attitude of still not taking responsibility for your part in the affair even after all these years--despite your caveats and whatnot to the contrary. You were NOT a victim. You were not even 'kind of' a victim. A woman who stepped into an affair WILLINGLY cannot compare herself *in any way* to a **pre-adolescent girl** who actually was physically violated. Not even 'kind of sort of'.

 

I disagree with some of this... and here is how.

 

Now the doctor was a creep child molester. There is no excuse for him, in any way. And he did groom those children so that he could molest them.

 

When he is killed in prison, and most likely he will be, I will not shed one tear.

 

Now, women that are actually Raped or Sexually harassed there is just no excuse for that in any way. Ever.

 

Now as for Grooming an AP/OW, that defiantly happens without a doubt.

 

In this case, lets face it, the woman involved makes some really bad decisions and they are responsible for that. But come on, if you are a player, you know how to do this, and frankly the women evolved really do not have a chance.

 

There is responsibility on their part, but most woman that have never been involved with a man like this are really unprepared.

 

For me though, I never took that tact, although I understand how to do it, I always thought that is was just too sleazy.

 

And I am in no way a player any more, and never will be again. But for example, married women are the easiest in most situations.

 

They have a crappy husband sometimes, or an unromantic low drive husband that is not giving her the attentions that she really needs but is unable or unwilling to verbalize. She is just Ripe for the picking.

 

Example, now I would never do this, but there is a young girl at work. She is married and way too young for me. But for whatever reason she has the hots for me. (Which is really silly of her)

 

Now I could spend a little time on her, and take her to bed probably in about 2 weeks. She actually has no idea what she is doing, and she is hot, but she is an easy target for anyone that can see it.

 

Now, would she make some bad decisions if I pursued her, certainly, but would she stand a chance if I poured on the charm, no way.

 

Then there is another part of this issue that bothers me. With every one of these starlets jumping on the band wagon, and I am sure many of them were taken advantage of in the most horrible way, but you know, some were not.

 

You cannot tell me that some actresses would not gladly sleep with some of these produces to get a part. It may not be right, but what about the ones that participated willingly in this to get a big part?

 

How are we to feel about that?

[lemondrop21]

No that STILL shows a lack of taking responsibility.

 

'I couldn't walk away! I was groomed! Big Bad MM used the Magic Words on me!

Meanwhile, your MM was not Harvey Weinstein. He couldn't make you a star with the wave of his hand. Correct me if I am mistaken but there wasn't that much of a difference in professional power between the two of you. And looking back on your Opening Post on your last thread, you admitted yourself to being clear-eyed about how wrong the situation was and how you missed the feelings, and then you willingly walked back into affair with MM.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/527917-coming-out-affair-fog-update-lemon-2-years-later

 

Post #1.

 

So I find the idea of you saying Me Too in this situation to be...well distasteful.

 

I appreciate what you’re saying here. No, he couldn’t make me a star like Harvey Weinstein could. Yes, I had could have walked away at any time, and there were some times when I felt clearer-eyed than others.

 

There was a bit of a power dynamic due to age difference (he being 15 years older) and working in a generally sexist office. We were on different teams though so he didn’t have professional power over me.

[lemondrop21]

I disagree with some of this... and here is how.

 

Now the doctor was a creep child molester. There is no excuse for him, in any way. And he did groom those children so that he could molest them.

 

When he is killed in prison, and most likely he will be, I will not shed one tear.

 

Now, women that are actually Raped or Sexually harassed there is just no excuse for that in any way. Ever.

 

Now as for Grooming an AP/OW, that defiantly happens without a doubt.

 

In this case, lets face it, the woman involved makes some really bad decisions and they are responsible for that. But come on, if you are a player, you know how to do this, and frankly the women evolved really do not have a chance.

 

There is responsibility on their part, but most woman that have never been involved with a man like this are really unprepared.

 

For me though, I never took that tact, although I understand how to do it, I always thought that is was just too sleazy.

 

And I am in no way a player any more, and never will be again. But for example, married women are the easiest in most situations.

 

They have a crappy husband sometimes, or an unromantic low drive husband that is not giving her the attentions that she really needs but is unable or unwilling to verbalize. She is just Ripe for the picking.

 

Example, now I would never do this, but there is a young girl at work. She is married and way too young for me. But for whatever reason she has the hots for me. (Which is really silly of her)

 

Now I could spend a little time on her, and take her to bed probably in about 2 weeks. She actually has no idea what she is doing, and she is hot, but she is an easy target for anyone that can see it.

 

Now, would she make some bad decisions if I pursued her, certainly, but would she stand a chance if I poured on the charm, no way.

 

Then there is another part of this issue that bothers me. With every one of these starlets jumping on the band wagon, and I am sure many of them were taken advantage of in the most horrible way, but you know, some were not.

 

You cannot tell me that some actresses would not gladly sleep with some of these produces to get a part. It may not be right, but what about the ones that participated willingly in this to get a big part?

 

How are we to feel about that?

 

You’ve got two main points in this post - for the first one, thank you for explaining this from a male perspective. This is the type of thing I’m getting at - what happens when men who are more calculated then you are, and who are actually out looking, find someone who is kind of naive and susceptible to their charms and/or sob story.

 

To the second point, about the willing participants who are essentially using sexual power for their gain; I agree that those exist, but think that it’s a separate issue. In the case you mention - actresses happily sleeping with Harvey in order to get the part - I think it would be exceedingly rare for those types to later come forward with allegations of harassment or assault. Sounds like more of a voluntary transaction; not exactly kosher, but probably far more common than is known.

[Maddieandtae]

Me too can mean anything really...although I'm not certain the intent of the start of it was meant to be what it is becoming. But than again it is opening the dialogue for many different views!

 

If you identify with the sentiment I don't see the harm of it, just be careful you are not taking a victimizing role

In your personal situation. That's dangerous and will hold you back.

 

I was raped at a young age and it took several years not to identify as a victim. I felt the most pain while being a victim. Choosing not to be was the start of a different me, only the start though on a very long road!

 

Maybe because of my own personal experience I can't see how someone can be groomed. Don't we all have consciousness that tells us right and wrong? I just don't believe if some man uses his charms on someone that a woman will fall for it and call it grooming. Where is the accountability in that?

 

She may not want to admit to herself she made a bad decision but you can never hide from yourself for long.

[wmacbride]

I believe this can apply to mw as well as married men.

 

Someone who is in a vulnerable position, maybe with a low self esteem and naivety as well, can easily fall for the charms that someone else might find sleazy and be able to spot a mile away.

 

That could be a good idea for a thread. What sorts of behaviors to watch out for that could indicate a mw/mm ( or anyone else for that matter) is hoping for more than just a colleague relationship. I'm not saying that the ow/om is a victim, but if they can recognize the early stages of this sort of dynamic, they can stop it before it ever really has a chance to get started and end up hurting someone.

[Cullenbohannon]

When you add to much to a movement, you run the risk of losing credibility.

 

There are a lot of men who understand the why and truly know harrassment is a BIG problem. However when you throw in ALL bad behaviour by MEN ONLY, and the accussation alone becomes judge, jury and executioner, the founding principles of innocent until proven guilty are lost and you will lose those who you need to reach.

Edited January 30, 2018 by Cullenbohannon

[OWAmy]

Yes, this is a great example. Good for you for quitting the hook-ups with your ex; you did the right thing by her.

 

You asked about intent earlier, and I go back and forth about what his intent was. Sometimes I think he really did intend to leave his wife at the start, but other times I wonder if it was more calculated than that; if he’s actually a serial cheater who was feeding me lines. I try not to over-analyze it though as it doesn’t change the outcome... just have been thinking more about this lately, for whatever reason.

 

I think most people would wonder that. The reality is that you may never know his intent and moving on is about accepting that you will never be 100% sure and being okay with that. From my experience - I went no contact with nothing left unsaid and believing that we would never have contact again. That it was all a game on his part. Now I knew that I would never contact him again. When he came back divorced it was only at that point that I knew that what he had been telling me was the truth. Had he never come back then I would have believed the intent was to just use me.

 

There is every chance that what OneLove says is true - that he believed it at the time of saying it. I think this happens a lot more than people give it credit.

[DKT3]

Lemondrop I get what you're saying. I know I'm pretty forward and blunt when it comes to other people, but usually married people.

 

First let me say, your pain is your pain and you should never minimize it or compare it to others, just recognize the YOUR pain is self inflicted while your behavior contributed to his family's pain.

 

I don't like groomed, it sounds helpless, but no doubt there are men well versed in finding a woman's insecurities and playing on them to take advantage of the situation. Unfortunately, we men have been conditioned through societal norms to not he ourselves when interacting with potential sex partners but rather using what works.

 

Now with that said, all it took was a "nope, not interested until you're divorced"

 

You are responsible for you, yet you were a victim but a victim to your insecurities, and the thought that maybe he was the best option you had or that no one else would"get you like he did".

 

Either way, you're out now, congratulations keep moving forward, try not to dwell so much on his behavior, focus more on how YOU allowed it to happen, so it doesn't happen again.