#MeToo and an OW's experience

[grays]

I had a 3 month affair with a married man who I totally fell for but I didnt find out he was married until about a year and a half after I last saw him. The only reason I stopped seeing him was that he got orders to move to Hawaii. We continued to text and talk on the phone but I was adamant that I didn't want to wait for him to come back. Eventually, though, I agreed to visit and he told me that he would get us a hotel room so we could treat it like a real vacation together. I told him I wanted to see where he lived. Something about the convo left me feeling like he was hiding something so I googled my heart out until I found a facebook page that was under his and wife's first names. The most recent post was a couple of days earlier and was a long sappy "youre the only one for me" post from him to her for their 16th wedding anniversary.

 

Sooo, obviously this situation is very different than if I had known he was married but... I felt so groomed. I don't think anyone had ever treated me so unambiguosly loving. I was completely sucked in. And so, so hurt. And I think I'm always going to feel pain at the thought of him. It wasn't the same pain as having my heart broken. I felt very victimized.

 

I have been raped twice, once at 17 and once maybe a year or so ago. There was a lot that was awful about those situations, but neither of them hurt me nearly as much as this guy I consented to having sex with.

 

I had not thought about it being similar to sexual assault but I swear, I don't think I've ever felt like more of a victim. I can certainly imagine that someone who knew of their affair partner's status could also feel that way to some extent, maybe just as much.

[OpenBook]

Either way, you're out now, congratulations keep moving forward, try not to dwell so much on his behavior, focus more on how YOU allowed it to happen, so it doesn't happen again.

 

I believe that's exactly what she's doing with this thread. Both for herself AND others to recognize the "grooming" behavior - to prevent being sucked in by it in the future.

 

And trust me, for the majority of us women, it WILL happen again. The attempt will be made.

[DKT3]

I believe that's exactly what she's doing with this thread. Both for herself AND others to recognize the "grooming" behavior - to prevent being sucked in by it in the future.

 

And trust me, for the majority of us women, it WILL happen again. The attempt will be made.

 

If you're not open to it then you can't be groomed. Strengthen your resolve and whatever any other man attempts you won't be falling for it.

[Whoknew30]

IMHO...the premise of this post is why women will NEVER rule the world.

 

Either woman are strong & own their choices & or we’re some poor little dears that can get sooo easily talked into something bc we’re just so vulnerable & can’t possibly figure out that we’re being played...come on! Even the men answering this are pretending they were just sooo good that of course women would fall for what they were saying.

 

No typical adult woman is groomed for anything. It’s called denial & loving every second of the attention. I’ve been sexually assaulted, sexually harassed & to even compare having an affair in the same sentence is the reason this #metoo movement is going to be looked at as a witch hunt & joke.

 

The “grooming” you’re speaking of is part of the relationship...is a man “grooming” a woman he wants to become closer to in dating bc men usually use their same moves no matter if they want a relationship, just to have sex & or just to get a date with a woman...unless a man forces himself on you or doesn’t stop at no, it’s not the same, not close to the same. Stop blaming men bc you handed your self worth over willingly.

[BluesPower]

IMHO...the premise of this post is why women will NEVER rule the world.

 

Either woman are strong & own their choices & or we’re some poor little dears that can get sooo easily talked into something bc we’re just so vulnerable & can’t possibly figure out that we’re being played...come on! Even the men answering this are pretending they were just sooo good that of course women would fall for what they were saying.

 

No typical adult woman is groomed for anything. It’s called denial & loving every second of the attention. I’ve been sexually assaulted, sexually harassed & to even compare having an affair in the same sentence is the reason this #metoo movement is going to be looked at as a witch hunt & joke.

 

The “grooming” you’re speaking of is part of the relationship...is a man “grooming” a woman he wants to become closer to in dating bc men usually use their same moves no matter if they want a relationship, just to have sex & or just to get a date with a woman...unless a man forces himself on you or doesn’t stop at no, it’s not the same, not close to the same. Stop blaming men bc you handed your self worth over willingly.

 

It is not that men are not taken advantage of by women, but is some of these affair situations, I believe that a lot of women do get taken for a ride.

 

I don't know how you would ever find out who takes advantage whom more???

 

Hell, I have been taken advantage of by women before, and I am no kid.

 

So I cannot say that women are strong, independent and in charge so they cannot be taken advantage of... And I can't say that about men either.

 

So, since everyone can be weak, and everyone can be taken advantage of you can't really make any definitive statements about either gender.

 

People make bad decisions, and people get taken advantage of...

[Imajerk17]

Let me get this straight. So everyone (or at least everyone female) led astray and who decides to get with MM gets to say she was a victim too, there is something called "grooming", all OM has to do is use the Magic Words and the poor little woman (tee hee hee!) well she can't really be expected to be held accountable and be strong enough to say no.

 

WOW I am going to guess people who were truly victims of SA have to be pissed reading this thread and the responses on here!

Edited January 30, 2018 by Imajerk17

[Els]

Let me get this straight. So everyone (or at least everyone female) led astray and who decides to get with MM gets to say she was a victim too, there is something called "grooming", all OM has to do is use the Magic Words and the poor little woman (tee hee hee!) well she can't really be expected to be held accountable and be strong enough to say no.

 

WOW I am going to guess people who were truly victims of SA have to be pissed reading this thread and the responses on here!

 

My impression was that the OP accepted accountability, but was offering other women advice on her MM's modus operandi so that others might not make the same mistake that she did.

[BluesPower]

Let me get this straight. So everyone (or at least everyone female) led astray and who decides to get with MM gets to say she was a victim too, there is something called "grooming", all OM has to do is use the Magic Words and the poor little woman (tee hee hee!) well she can't really be expected to be held accountable and be strong enough to say no.

 

WOW I am going to guess people who were truly victims of SA have to be pissed reading this thread and the responses on here!

 

I don't think anyone is saying that...

 

I think people are saying that you have to take responsibility for your actions, no doubt.

 

But to say that some women involved in affairs are not taken advantage of in some degree, is too far of a stretch.

 

People can be taken advantage of, either gender, and that is not mutually exclusive with making bad decisions.

[wmacbride]

Let me get this straight. So everyone (or at least everyone female) led astray and who decides to get with MM gets to say she was a victim too, there is something called "grooming", all OM has to do is use the Magic Words and the poor little woman (tee hee hee!) well she can't really be expected to be held accountable and be strong enough to say no.

 

WOW I am going to guess people who were truly victims of SA have to be pissed reading this thread and the responses on here!

 

I was assaulted, and when through the whole soul crushing experience of reporting it and having it go nowhere.

 

I really don't think that the op is comparing the two in the way you think. I think she's more saying that, there are times in anyone's life ( man or woman)that you can be in a vulnerable position, and there are people who will take advantage of that. Some do it on purpose, and some do it without even realizing it.

 

Since you can't control their actions, it's important to learn how to recognize these signs this could be happening before an A even gets off the ground at all. That can save a whole lot of heartache, and gives a potential ow or om control over their own life, choices and actions.

[Vivir]

Lemondrop, I just wanted to communicate that I think you carefully worded your original post and tried very hard to get your point across, and I get it.

 

Other posters have responded to this thread much more eloquently my own thoughts than I could, so I won't even try. I just wanted to offer my support to you, because I understood what you were hoping to convey.

 

I never thought of these two types of events (affairs vs. the #MeToo movement) being "the same" or even similar; I just felt that they both often begin with some level of manipulation in an interpersonal interaction and then diverge into their own things. As you said, of course, they are not the same.

 

That's all.

[QuestioningSoul]

I often feared my husband was a "groomer", to a point. But I'm not sure I feel that way anymore. What my husband is, is intuitive. He instinctively knew who would be open to an affair, and only pursued those certain ones. He knew this info by all the hours of conversation he had with them about their unhappy marriages and sex lives. Conversations they happily engaged in because they wanted to feel wanted and interesting. Once those boundaries are crossed, the slippery slope gets much steeper really fast.

 

But from this argument, couldn't we say that anyone can be groomed who has needs (and often in affairs, just wants) they feel aren't being met? If I am starving and you have food, I bet you could tempt me much easier than if I had a full stomach and was content. Is that really grooming, or is it taking advantage of a situation? And is it it taking advantage of a situation, or is it giving someone something they are asking for and in return getting something the other wants? (and not in a rape sense- not the "she was asking for it" way) I do think people can sense others' weaknesses and use it against them, but at some point doesn't the other person have a choice as to how they also behave? I may be starving, but if someone wants me to rob a grocery store with them, I can still know I shouldn't rob the grocery store. Are we accountable for our weaknesses? I think so. I also think once we recognize the weakness, we need to educate ourselves so it has less of a chance at repeating. For me, I do believe there are real groomers, predators that know how to get what they want at any cost and are sociopathic, for most I think it's a mutual use of the other that once it comes to light, shame makes them not want to see what they really are in the scenario, so they look for excuses.

 

It's a very thought provoking discussion.

[Whoknew30]

It is not that men are not taken advantage of by women, but is some of these affair situations, I believe that a lot of women do get taken for a ride.

 

I don't know how you would ever find out who takes advantage whom more???

 

Hell, I have been taken advantage of by women before, and I am no kid.

 

So I cannot say that women are strong, independent and in charge so they cannot be taken advantage of... And I can't say that about men either.

 

So, since everyone can be weak, and everyone can be taken advantage of you can't really make any definitive statements about either gender.

 

People make bad decisions, and people get taken advantage of...

 

No, if a woman has sex with a married man knowingly...she wanted to do it. She may be lied to & that sucks but it’s not being taken advantage of, it’s called not wanting to own your own bad decision. If she didn’t have willing sex with mm she would not have been in that position.

 

Op is trying to compare knowing she was sleeping with a married man to kids & women that have fully been abused. Not being picked after being the OW does not make a woman a victim...maybe but i only of her own choices.

 

If OP MM had left his wife would this post exist? Highly doubt it. Bring taken advantage of is so broad. Not getting your way with a MM is not being taken advantage of.

 

Also this post is about OW feeling married men groomed them...not about every instance of being lied to...so I can Say, if willingly sleeping with a mm or mw no you’re not being taken advantage of...you chose to be on that position. Being taken advantage of is when you don’t have the choice.

[BluesPower]

No, if a woman has sex with a married man knowingly...she wanted to do it. She may be lied to & that sucks but it’s not being taken advantage of, it’s called not wanting to own your own bad decision. If she didn’t have willing sex with mm she would not have been in that position.

 

Op is trying to compare knowing she was sleeping with a married man to kids & women that have fully been abused. Not being picked after being the OW does not make a woman a victim...maybe but i only of her own choices.

 

If OP MM had left his wife would this post exist? Highly doubt it. Bring taken advantage of is so broad. Not getting your way with a MM is not being taken advantage of.

 

Also this post is about OW feeling married men groomed them...not about every instance of being lied to...so I can Say, if willingly sleeping with a mm or mw no you’re not being taken advantage of...you chose to be on that position. Being taken advantage of is when you don’t have the choice.

 

I get what you are saying... but I still disagree.

 

There are women in my office that I could have an affair with if I wanted.

 

I don't and won't but I could. Some are married, some are not, but I am in a relationship.

 

There are some that would say hey, cool lets screw, I have had my eye on you for a while.

 

There are some that I would have to spend time with and profess undying love for and poor on the charm.

 

I would never do this, anymore, but I could.

 

The point is that it can be done. Those women would make bad decisions because they are venerably. If they have not been around the block, they would not know what was going on except they would be getting the attention that their husband is not giving them.

 

Now, even with the bad choices, would I not be taking advantage of a woman that was kind of defenseless in that situation.

 

It is like, if a girl is black out drunk but still standing, you don't have sex with her, it is wrong.

 

Same thing...

[DKT3]

I often feared my husband was a "groomer", to a point. But I'm not sure I feel that way anymore. What my husband is, is intuitive. He instinctively knew who would be open to an affair, and only pursued those certain ones. He knew this info by all the hours of conversation he had with them about their unhappy marriages and sex lives. Conversations they happily engaged in because they wanted to feel wanted and interesting. Once those boundaries are crossed, the slippery slope gets much steeper really fast.

 

But from this argument, couldn't we say that anyone can be groomed who has needs (and often in affairs, just wants) they feel aren't being met? If I am starving and you have food, I bet you could tempt me much easier than if I had a full stomach and was content. Is that really grooming, or is it taking advantage of a situation? And is it it taking advantage of a situation, or is it giving someone something they are asking for and in return getting something the other wants? (and not in a rape sense- not the "she was asking for it" way) I do think people can sense others' weaknesses and use it against them, but at some point doesn't the other person have a choice as to how they also behave? I may be starving, but if someone wants me to rob a grocery store with them, I can still know I shouldn't rob the grocery store. Are we accountable for our weaknesses? I think so. I also think once we recognize the weakness, we need to educate ourselves so it has less of a chance at repeating. For me, I do believe there are real groomers, predators that know how to get what they want at any cost and are sociopathic, for most I think it's a mutual use of the other that once it comes to light, shame makes them not want to see what they really are in the scenario, so they look for excuses.

 

It's a very thought provoking discussion.

To me, a woman open to an affair is very obvious, like wearing a flashing neon light around her neck. I was unaware of the behavior prior to my wife's affair or maybe I just didn't pay attention.

 

Grooming, I believe is bogus, the truth is many men just throw out bull$##t then zero in on the women who respond. No special skills or insight, just plain ole numbers game. Flirt with 15 women and one will respond then zero in. Push her boundaries, if she accepts you push again. It's not grooming, it's fishing with 15 poles and taking whatever bits.

[BourneWicked]

I've said the affair made me lose a bit of innocence I'd never realized I still had.

 

Like others, I thought "this is an upstanding married guy who just wants to talk to me" and assumed I was in a safe situation with a group of coworkers. Did not put my guard up. Naive, stupid. I remember being furious when he crossed boundaries. It didn't stop what happened next - but the initial crossing of that line made me white hot mad. Not enough to stop it from progressing. And that bit of naivete, innocence, whatever is forever gone. I don't really blame him (certainly he's lucky he's never gotten in trouble for his actions at work) but I'm more mistrusting of people in general.

 

I would pose that many of us who get into affairs (but certainly not all) have been in sexually abusive or compromising situations or relationships before, and maybe that's the red flag that says "hey I'm available to be taken advantage of. Come get it!"

[QuestioningSoul]

DKT3; I agree with you a lot. I do believe in grooming, but not as much with adults in affairs. Like I said, I was worried my husband was a predator, and in reality your scenario is correct. He threw out bait questions, sexual in nature, and whoever didn't shut him down, he kept talking to, escalating. I don't think all women open to affairs are obvious, either, but then again I'm not out looking for APs. Maybe when you're looking really hard for something, you see much better.

 

But I do believe in grooming.

[jah526]

DKT3, that is exactly what happened in my case. When MM first started at work he was casting around for someone to join him in an activity outside of work. He asked me numerous times over several months before I finally relented. Later I found out (from him) a couple of things:

 

1. He was relentless in his pursuit of anything he desired. His method was to outlast people and wear them down.

 

2. He had not only asked me but others also. He told me in an offended tone about one woman who asked if his wife would be there. Now I think that lady was a freaking genius.

 

Now I don’t believe that all wandering MM are like mine. I believe many just find themselves in a position they probably never thought they’d be in. A smaller subset are like mine. Predators.

[SolG]

Thanks lemon. Very provocative thread.

 

I always feel a bit sad whenever there is a post on this board where the OW/M is obviously very young and/or naive. Particularly under 25. When the brain is still developing and risk assessment and other mental perspectives are still developing. So ripe for being willingly manipulated. And also vilified.

 

There are people out there who just don't know what they don't know yet. And it makes them not necessarily innocent, but vulnerable.

[Arieswoman]

DTK3 post #39

 

Grooming, I believe is bogus, the truth is many men just throw out bull$##t then zero in on the women who respond. No special skills or insight, just plain ole numbers game. Flirt with 15 women and one will respond then zero in. Push her boundaries, if she accepts you push again. It's not grooming, it's fishing with 15 poles and taking whatever bits.

I believe this is true ^^^^

 

I found out that my exH had asked more than one girl at work for a date - the one girl that said "yes" eventually became the AP. She was 10 years younger than him (22) and in a 'bad place' at the time, but I don't believe she was 'vulnerable' or 'groomed'.

[OpenBook]

To me, a woman open to an affair is very obvious, like wearing a flashing neon light around her neck.

 

What behavior is that? Can you describe it specifically?

[BluesPower]

What behavior is that? Can you describe it specifically?

 

I can, and I think there are several ways to tell.

 

This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

 

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

 

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.

 

But I can pick one out by observing them for a few minutes.

 

It is really obvious...

[road]

To me, a woman open to an affair is very obvious, like wearing a flashing neon light around her neck. I was unaware of the behavior prior to my wife's affair or maybe I just didn't pay attention.

 

Grooming, I believe is bogus, the truth is many men just throw out bull$##t then zero in on the women who respond. No special skills or insight, just plain ole numbers game. Flirt with 15 women and one will respond then zero in. Push her boundaries, if she accepts you push again. It's not grooming, it's fishing with 15 poles and taking whatever bits.

 

I believe in the grooming by a predatory OM.

 

Why?

 

You see George Clooney can walk into any club and straight

up ask a women to come back to his house now and he will

get a lot of action. He does not need to groom.

 

There are a few woman that when asked, want to have sex and

the will say yes.

 

However most women will say no. So they have to be worked.

The OM uses the "friendship" play to get close and connect.

Many OM use this act on multiple women at the same time.

 

Why does the OM usually throw the WW under the bus when

her BH finds out?

 

Because it takes time to get a woman ready using the I am

your friend game. So he has the next WW to be is ripe to

be picked.

Edited January 31, 2018 by road

[OpenBook]

To me, a woman open to an affair is very obvious, like wearing a flashing neon light around her neck.

 

What in a woman's behavior is "very obvious"? Can you describe that more specifically?

 

If you're not open to it then you can't be groomed. Strengthen your resolve and whatever any other man attempts you won't be falling for it.

 

Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?

[OpenBook]

I can, and I think there are several ways to tell.

 

This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

 

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

 

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.

 

But I can pick one out by observing them for a few minutes.

 

It is really obvious...

 

Thank you for trying to answer my question. This makes me so sad, I just want to weep after reading this. It feels like if a woman wants to remain virtuous (in men's eyes), she has to put on a straitjacket over her emotions at all times. Build a fortress and a moat with alligators around her heart.

[Toots]

This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

 

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

 

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.

 

This doesn’t explain happily married MOW. It also doesn’t explain happy SOW. Not everyone needs to be in a love relationship to feel emotionally taken care of, at peace and content. I’ve mever felt more emotionally taken care of, at peace or content than when I was part of a feminist collective, married to the cause. As I was when I met xMM. My passion was what attracted him.

 

I don’t flirt. Never have. And I’m not a talkative type, but if I wanted someone to listen, I had a whole bunch of women listening and affirming and doing all the emotional work I could have wanted. I had no unmet needs.

 

Your assumptions don’t fit everyone.