#MeToo and an OW's experience

[imsosad]

This doesn’t explain happily married MOW. It also doesn’t explain happy SOW. Not everyone needs to be in a love relationship to feel emotionally taken care of, at peace and content. I’ve mever felt more emotionally taken care of, at peace or content than when I was part of a feminist collective, married to the cause. As I was when I met xMM. My passion was what attracted him.

 

I don’t flirt. Never have. And I’m not a talkative type, but if I wanted someone to listen, I had a whole bunch of women listening and affirming and doing all the emotional work I could have wanted. I had no unmet needs.

 

Your assumptions don’t fit everyone.

 

No it doesn't.

, I respect BP's input, but imo things are way more complicated than that.

I always feel I attract much more attention when I'm happy. I think of the 3-4 first years of my relationship with my ex husband, I never goit hit on more than in those years. Besides being very young, I think iI was then pretty much glowing around the clock.

My AP turned partner and I met when I was in a pretty good place. He says that I looked so happy, he wanted to be a part of that too.

My marriage was ok back then, but being more than just my relationship, it is possible to be happy about other things.

BP, I have a problem with your method because it reduces women's experience and being to the man in their lives. There is so much more to a woman's life.

Mu ex husband and I went through some very difficult times, but that doesn't mean any guy could have started an affair with me.

So I get what you're saying, but I still think it's a very partial explanation.

[wmacbride]

No it doesn't.

, I respect BP's input, but imo things are way more complicated than that.

I always feel I attract much more attention when I'm happy. I think of the 3-4 first years of my relationship with my ex husband, I never goit hit on more than in those years. Besides being very young, I think iI was then pretty much glowing around the clock.

My AP turned partner and I met when I was in a pretty good place. He says that I looked so happy, he wanted to be a part of that too.

My marriage was ok back then, but being more than just my relationship, it is possible to be happy about other things.

BP, I have a problem with your method because it reduces women's experience and being to the man in their lives. There is so much more to a woman's life.

Mu ex husband and I went through some very difficult times, but that doesn't mean any guy could have started an affair with me.

So I get what you're saying, but I still think it's a very partial explanation.

 

I never got hit on as much as I did when I was first married. I was really happy, and I guess it showed- unbeknownst to me, I was also pregnant, so maybe I was "glowing":laugh:. That seemed to really attract guys, and I don;t know why. I'm usually think as a brick when it comes to being it on, so when say they were flirting, it couldn't have been more obvious if they had a flashing neon sign saying " I want to sleep with you".

 

Usually, I come off as pretty aloof and even unfriendly ( I am usually really nervous I.e.- terrified of people I don't know), so maybe I seemed more upbeat an approachable because I was really happy. It could be some saw it as a challenge, as I made it clear I was married and happy. The nice thing is that most guys, when they found out, seemed genuinely happy for me, and stopped the flirting right away.

 

That's just my own experience.

 

I don't like the idea of viewing all married men/women as predators, but some do act like it. Others seems to be just sort of going along and acting without even really thinking about it.

 

Either way, no one can control another's behavior, so if someone wants to protect themselves from being hurt, it pays to recognize signs that someone may be interested in more than friendship/ a colleague relationship. Self awareness is also important.

[whatcomesnext]

Call it naïveté, but some people are swept in by a belief in the power of “love.” To me, the worst thing MM did was make me feel I had actually found some sort of special love that I had never felt before or ever would again. Infidelity is wrong, but it is difficult when you are convinced that you’ve found some sort of pre-destined “love” to walk away from it.

 

Did he tell me to feel that way? No, of course not. In retrospect I was swept up in this addictive love while he had his feet firmly planted on the ground. That said, I believe he knew on some level that I was heavily invested while he was just having fun, an ego stroke. But ultimately self-interest and self-preservation were more important than thinking about anyone else’s feelings (mine or his wife’s). Ours was an EA, and he ended up breaking things off in a very cold way.

 

I am still struggling to get over feeling that not only was there no actual love involved (on his end anyway), but he must have cared very little for me. Not because he ended it, but because of the way he ended it. As for OW not having a “glow,” I am certain that my happiness, confidence, strength and glow are exactly what attracted this man to me. It is now that I’ve been through this experience of being discarded after betraying my own values and morals in favor of love conquering all (I’m sure aided by unresolved childhood wounds that I’d hazard to guess haunt many people on these boards and make us extra vulnerable to these types of situations) that I feel my glow has been dulled and I don’t know how to get it back.

Edited February 4, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[stillafool]

 

Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?

 

Because women are the ones complaining about being groomed and can't seem to resist a man. You can only control yourself not others.

[Cymbeline]

Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?

 

Because in evolutionary terms, women are the gatekeepers of sexual activity: women do the selecting of males whose genes they think (unconsciously) are worth having offspring with. It is, except in cases of forced sex, the woman who says whether sex is going to occur.

 

That doesn’t mean society shouldn’t demand different behaviour from men, and it does that using social censure.

 

I also think when younger or naive women become involved in affairs, despite knowing the man is married, that their unconscious is usually involved and they are projecting their hopes onto a man who rationally, isn’t a great use of their precious time, but who may be projecting his own issues onto her, very often.

 

A person more integrated and aware of his/her shadow would be less likely to get embroiled in an affair which is romantic and full of hope. So in that sense, I think there can be an element of grooming behaviour simply because the vulnerability is ignored for expediency’s sake.

Edited February 4, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[OneLov]

Because in evolutionary terms, women are the gatekeepers of sexual activity: women do the selecting of males whose genes they think (unconsciously) are worth having offspring with. It is, except in cases of forced sex, the woman who says whether sex is going to occur.

 

To expand on that point: From an evolutionary and cultural perspective, males do the courting. That is why I am hesitant to state that any instance where a male is trying to attract a mate and makes advances, he is "grooming" her. If that was the case, any relationship that went south and the man initiated the break up, you could say he was "grooming" the female. I don't think that would be accurate because "grooming" implies bad faith in regards to his intent in making the advances not the advances in and of themselves. To conclude his intent was malicious because he would have never had made advances is a logical fallacy. As Axl Rose put it, "Cause nothing lasts forever, and we both know hearts can change."

Edited January 31, 2018 by OneLov

[Cullenbohannon]

What in a woman's behavior is "very obvious"? Can you describe that more specifically?

 

 

 

Why is the onus on the woman to modify her behavior? Why aren't you advocating that men "strengthen their resolve" to stop the predatory behavior in the first place?

 

#1 The touching. Stroking the arms and back, finger tips that linger.

Sometimes I want to say "Did you enjoy that?

#2 The hugs. Platonic until you feel the fingernails in your back.

#3 They stand way too close to You

#4. Commenting on your smell

#5. Always stopping by my office for trivial information.

#6 Constant invites to Happy Hour

#7 Exposed cleavage at work. Really? You wore that to work?

 

Today, the onus is on Men. You dare not touch a woman even casually. Whereas if you reverse my gender, I have always been "sexually assaulted/groped/unwanted touching. #YouToo

 

This is not to trivialize the movement, but it is hypocritical to act like one doesn't know that SOME women are just as aggressive as men.

 

What woman? You know, the one you talk about at happy hour.

[Maddieandtae]

I looked at all the women at work today...I studied each closely and guess what I saw? Busy woman working and too boot the men were as well! I will admit neither man or woman had a particular glow BUT that's because I live in a very rainy province in Canada?

[waterwoman]

I looked at all the women at work today...I studied each closely and guess what I saw? Busy woman working and too boot the men were as well! I will admit neither man or woman had a particular glow BUT that's because I live in a very rainy province in Canada?

 

Same here. Rainy county in England. I ‘glow’ after I’ve run 18 miles but I am also sweaty, muddy and generally not nice to be near ?

 

IME that glow has really nothing to do with sex, love or attention. It comes from being happy in yourself and with yourself.

[waterwoman]

Cullen - I agree that some women can seem predatory in the ways you mention but I think it is often less about grooming, more about enjoying the effect they are having. For most mature women that desire to stir up a reaction in men fades away.

[DKT3]

What I'm talking about is the way a woman relates to men. In watching the way she behaves in a group setting. Of course the behavior isn't the same (nor should it be) for single women vs married woman. Body language tells alot, but it's also in the way she communicates verbally.

 

There is a huge difference between women who are fun, out going and those who are putting themselves out there and seeking male attention. Secondly, insecurities are easy to spot. Example, when I was in college I told a classmate that she looked nice in purple. She was a bit older and married with a small child. For the next several weeks she wore something purple almost every day and made sure she crossed my path. While I didn't really understand that behavior at the time, now it's clear she was a woman seeking to have her ego stroked and I imagine I could have turned that into a " situation".

 

It's things like that, that say "hey I'm open, even though I'm married" and there are alot of men who will pick up on that and put on the full court press.

 

As far as onus, well, we are all responsible for our own behavior. If those behaviors lead you into undesirable situations than they need to be modified no matter what those around you do.

[CrazyKatLady]

I sympathize with you. I too have been dealing with being groomed-it has been 5 weeks since I saw this man last. It ruined my college career at the university I am at. I can't hardly even speak of it because I go into a sort of anxiety attack.

 

He was my professor and in four years of college, I had never experienced the stuff he did to me. It was extremely subtle at first. We started "dating" in July last year. He told me later on in the year that he had gone looking for me at local events in the community and at parks where he knew I might hang out-maybe he got this information off of Facebook when I would post pictures??

I assumed I could trust him (yes-I know-my mistake) and I had never experienced the power issue that was at play and somehow held me captive.

 

At the end of December, when he was done with me for the semester, he left and moved on and so many things resurfaced. I will not step foot on campus in the direction of where he works because all of his male colleagues watched him treat me like a dirty secret. I thought I was protecting his job the entire time, but really, he hid me because he was working on a new student. He would discourage me from attending events in my chosen major, I also withdrew from his courses, which I need to graduate. I am now taking courses that have nothing to do with my major, my GPA has dropped significantly and the depression I feel takes my breath away.

I would have thought he would be considerate, since he was my professor, about my education-he did everything he could to destroy it and me...

 

But, I know now what happened. I feel as you do...I know it was wrong, but I became someone whom I had never known before...I must be weak to have let this happen, or maybe these men just know what they are doing...but yes, I do consider myself a victim of this man's delusional fantasies. In the six months that he was around, I only allowed for a few brief encounters with him, then the last four months cut physical contact as I was ashamed and disgusted with myself. I am slowly starting to feel like myself again. I know that this is an experience that I have never encountered, as the past four years of my life in college were wonderful.

 

The man crossed boundaries time and again, and it was confusing and I suppose, as Eve in the beginning, the additional attention and being spoken to in such a manner from someone who paid me any mind, made me feel special BUT because I WANTED to feel special. I realized that day that instead of embodying only the minimal nature of a woman, that I had better utilize the mental facilities God gave me better, or suffer the consequences, and let my natural instincts as a woman get the better of me when someone who is sexually manipulative and seductively stronger than myself enjoys the conquest more than the woman...I can tell you one positive I gained from this experience--

 

I have realized not to judge someone based on their profession as being automatically concerned for others beneath them, I have gained insight into my faults as a woman who desires to actually find a decent love interest one day, I have seen that there is good and bad in everyone and we are all flawed, I have seen where my weakness' lie at inside of me and will be changing the way I view myself, men and the interactions that I am part of in the future. I feel like I took away a lot from this experience, and though it hurt to see myself weak and debilitated and suffering through my educational training, I find myself looking to the positives in life from this point on.

 

I realize something terrible happened, but I also realized that it was probably a once in a lifetime chance and can evolve into a better, more sound judging WOMAN and can exert more wisdom when dealing with a man again. It was something I never paid much attention to before and I have to say that I doubt it will happen again--it was a powerful and humbling message, and I understood what it meant immediately and listened...and I did--I went straight to Amazon and ordered an adult toy...and I am recovering quite nicely! No need to rush into any more dating just yet! Lol

 

Treat yourself good right now...that is what this time in your life is about--I learned that lesson too the hard way.

Edited February 4, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[road]

This man must be stopped.

 

You must report him to the head of the college.

 

This is the only way to stop him from taking more victims.

Edited February 2, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[OpenBook]

This man must be stopped.

 

You must report him to the head of the college.

 

This is the only way to stop him from taking more victims.

 

Oh NO we can't do that, remember? We women can't do anything about the man's behavior, so we must twist and hide and shame ourselves to escape the certain death of our virtue at the hands of these men. IT'S ALL OUR FAULT:

 

What I'm talking about is the way a woman relates to men. In watching the way she behaves in a group setting. Of course the behavior isn't the same (nor should it be) for single women vs married woman. Body language tells alot, but it's also in the way she communicates verbally... As far as onus, well, we are all responsible for our own behavior. If those behaviors lead you into undesirable situations than they need to be modified no matter what those around you do.

 

I can, and I think there are several ways to tell.

 

This may sound silly, but for me the main thing I notice is that they don't glow. When a woman is in love, and she is being taken care of emotionally and sexually, she glows. It is not just a happiness, it is an outward peace and contentment.

 

Women that are not in that situation, do not look the same.

 

From a practical stand point, the flirt more, and they want to talk and have someone listen to how they feel.

 

But I can pick one out by observing them for a few minutes.

 

It is really obvious...

 

Grooming, I believe is bogus, the truth is many men just throw out bull$##t then zero in on the women who respond. No special skills or insight, just plain ole numbers game. Flirt with 15 women and one will respond then zero in. Push her boundaries, if she accepts you push again. It's not grooming, it's fishing with 15 poles and taking whatever bits.

 

Because women are the ones complaining about being groomed and can't seem to resist a man. You can only control yourself not others.

 

Those who insist on criticizing a woman's behavior without dishing out AT LEAST the same level of criticism toward the predatory male ("sigh we can't control them so it's all on YOU") are in effect saying that WOMEN BEAR THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MEN'S SEXUAL AGGRESSION. It's the same thing as blaming a rape victim: "She was asking for it."

 

I call BULLSH*T on that, and I'm not wearing it.

[Daisy2013]

I am unsure what "grooming" is, honestly. I know my MM and I started out as platonic friends for many years and became close through the years, as we worked together. As it started to kick off into an affair, he'd talk to me more on a personal level and ask questions as he knew I was in a lonely marriage. Then he started telling me he was attracted to me and about how "excited" (used other words to describe this excitement) he'd get when thinking of me, and it all drew me to him because I was lonely. But, when it started up, I knew full well what was happening and because I liked him already as a friend and enjoyed his presence, and looked up to him, so I have 50% of fault too. I did not tell him to go home to his wife.

 

So I don't know the validity of this movement. Most of us know what is happening, I think.

[BluesPower]

I am unsure what "grooming" is, honestly. I know my MM and I started out as platonic friends for many years and became close through the years, as we worked together. As it started to kick off into an affair, he'd talk to me more on a personal level and ask questions as he knew I was in a lonely marriage. Then he started telling me he was attracted to me and about how "excited" (used other words to describe this excitement) he'd get when thinking of me, and it all drew me to him because I was lonely. But, when it started up, I knew full well what was happening and because I liked him already as a friend and enjoyed his presence, and looked up to him, so I have 50% of fault too. I did not tell him to go home to his wife.

 

So I don't know the validity of this movement. Most of us know what is happening, I think.

 

And my dear you were groomed...

 

No one ever said that the OW/MW don't understand right from wrong, just that there is such a thing a grooming of AP's.

 

Your description is actually how it works.

 

It just is...

[MidnightBlue1980]

I think it really depends. My situation was more like throwing a bunch of stuff against a wall to see what sticks. I don't think that is comparable to a college professor grooming a student and potentially ruining her life. It is beyond whether he is married or not. He is in a position of power and that is why teachers, doctors, lawyers, therapists etc should not date their students/clients. It is not an equal playing field. CrazyCats story bothers me a lot. If that was my daughter I would hope she told me and I'd make sure the man lost his job.

[Daisy2013]

And my dear you were groomed...

 

No one ever said that the OW/MW don't understand right from wrong, just that there is such a thing a grooming of AP's.

 

Your description is actually how it works.

 

It just is...

 

Ouch, that hurts. He was my friend. Maybe that explains why as unhappy he wa and still claims today, he won't leave. Maybe he did know what he was doing bc he'd wipe himself with Clorox wipes after we were together and stuff tissue in his pants to hide evidence. He said it was bc he didn't want to get busted. Maybe he's been around this block before. Ugh. I feel sick.

[DKT3]

Grooming vs abuse of power and or position.

 

Listen, you women who have affairs with some random dude where not groomed, you just fell for some BS, thought it would work out different then it did.

 

When one feels pressure, IE boss, professor, church leaders etc, in my opinion it is a grey area that maybe should have legal action attached.

 

Sexual aggressive men? Hmm, so that means you have to enter into a sexual relationship? That is totally crap. That is not being responsible for your actions. I mean saying you where groomed is all a way to deflect personal responsibility and displays an internal weakness. At the end of the day everyone could have simply said no, informed Thier wives or bosses or your spouse fir those who are married. Just because you may not have been the aggressor does not mean you are not responsible for YOUR behavior.

[Maddieandtae]

Daisy I think he was just afraid to get busted. He wanted variety and the familiar without change and if you feel sick now maybe it's because you realize that "friends" shouldn't have to use wipes on their selves after visiting with each other?

 

I personally don't buy the grooming theory for affair situations from my experience. I made a heck of alot of extremely bad choices and until I accepted my actions without bringing the other person into it I was stuck. Nobody forced me against my will to participate in an affair and having been raped I know what being forced to do something I didn't want entails!

[anika99]

No, if a woman has sex with a married man knowingly...she wanted to do it. She may be lied to & that sucks but it’s not being taken advantage of, it’s called not wanting to own your own bad decision. If she didn’t have willing sex with mm she would not have been in that position.

 

Op is trying to compare knowing she was sleeping with a married man to kids & women that have fully been abused. Not being picked after being the OW does not make a woman a victim...maybe but i only of her own choices.

 

If OP MM had left his wife would this post exist? Highly doubt it. Bring taken advantage of is so broad. Not getting your way with a MM is not being taken advantage of.

 

Also this post is about OW feeling married men groomed them...not about every instance of being lied to...so I can Say, if willingly sleeping with a mm or mw no you’re not being taken advantage of...you chose to be on that position. Being taken advantage of is when you don’t have the choice.

 

Taking advantage of someone isn't about taking away their choice. It's about finding their weakness or their vulnerable spot and exploiting that weakness for ones own gain.

 

Of course every adult is responsible for their own choices but most of us have had periods in our lives where we have been vulnerable to manipulation. The one abusive man I got involved with only got to be with me because he came along at a time when I was absolutely starving for love and affection and he knew it. I know he knew it because I opened up to him. Normally I would have found his flattery and over the top attention to cheesy and annoying but at that particular moment in my life I had let my gaurd down and let him cross boundaries.

 

Yes I'm ultimately responsible for protecting myself and I share the blame for letting this abusive man into my life but the fact that I didn't appropriately protect myself didnt make him less of a manipulative user. It's like someone stealing my belongings from my unlocked car. Yes I'm foolish for leaving my car unlocked but the person who took my stuff is still a thief.

[DKT3]

Let's look at it this. A man is struggling in life, his credit cards are maxed he is behind on his house payment, has a kid in college who's bill is due. While at work his boss has been telling him how easy it is to move money through several accounts before ending up in yours, for years. So when he steals the money and gets caught does he now get to say he was groomed and that his boss is responsible for the mess he is in?

 

I'm not saying that women aren't mislead and or abused by these guys, what I'm saying is in affairs that woman is still 100% responsible for her involvement unless he was able to hide the fact that he was married... married Women don't even have that, after all they themselves are, well...

[wmacbride]

This is just my opinion- and this is just with respect on an affair and not an abuse of authority or power ( that's a separate kettle of fish)

 

Compare a married man or woman to a used care salesman...

 

They are offering a crappy vehicle for sale, and someone comes in to browse. The salesman will say and do whatever they need to to get that person to buy ( you know the line "what can I say to get you to buy this car right now?"). The shopper, for whatever reason, is vulnerable to the lines, and ends up buying a car they know isn't really good and regrets their decision.

 

Who is responsible for what happened? To me, both are. The salesman conned and lied, and the consumer should have known better then to believe the lines.

 

The smart consumer realizes that he or she can't change what the salesman does, but what they can do is learn from the situation so they don't fall for the same thing again. they can share their experience so others don't have the same thing happen to them. The truth of the matter is that anyone can be in a vulnerable time in their life, so it's good to know what to watch out for.

 

 

From what I can tell, that's what the op is trying to do. She's not trying to place the blame on the married man. She's just sharing her perspective and thoughts and trying to help keep other people from being hurt. I also get the feeling she is trying to process the relationship and sort through it all in her own mind so she can learn from it. ( op, apologize if I am wrong)

[Poppy47]

And my dear you were groomed...

 

No one ever said that the OW/MW don't understand right from wrong, just that there is such a thing a grooming of AP's.

 

Your description is actually how it works.

 

It just is...

 

Agree. MM like to make sure you are well and truly hooked. If it takes a long time, it doesn't matter. It just means they don't have to do it again because they GOTCHYA!!!1

 

Poppy.

[Timshel]

Agree. MM like to make sure you are well and truly hooked. If it takes a long time, it doesn't matter. It just means they don't have to do it again because they GOTCHYA!!!1

 

Poppy.

 

What even does this mean? OP has compared to having an affair with an married man to the #metoo movement...

 

There is a world of difference between a woman/child violated against their will and

 

a woman who says ok to an affair with a married man.

 

It doesn't matter that you were in a 'vulnerable' place when you met the married man. What matters is that you are a willing participant...that's it, there is nothing else to see here folks.

 

[]

Edited February 4, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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