Do you start to become out of step?

[ZA Dater]

On a first meet I only have control over me but what I don't do is to become dismissive even if I am not interested in dating that man.

It makes no difference what they do but I never leave a date with any sour taste in their mouth about me.

If. as you say you become dismissive maybe that's why you get blocked?

 

Are you charming as per JJ's link there all the way through a first meet?

His link describes how to engage with people which go alongside use of your own body language and facial expressions.

 

As for wanting to know something about a person's relationship history I want to know how they handle dating and relationships.

To me it's not irrelevant at all as it can be an indicator of what it might be like to date that guy.A common kind of example is the guy who tells me all of his exes are psychos or that a guy shifts all blame to his exes for the break up reason.

 

A man of your age having no relationship history wouldn't necessarily turn me off but I'd be curious and ask questions.

If a guy told me that 'x' years ago he was in a 2 year-long relationship or something and I did end up dating him it may well become obvious when we got intimate that it wasn't something he had previously experienced.

His attitude about it would be the make or break as to whether to continue dating.

 

 

 

The strange thing is I have never been interested in my dates dating history, for me its completely irrelevant so when 15 minutes is spent asking me questions about mine, yes I do become dismissing and at that point I am no longer interested in the person so if they block me I couldn't really care less.

 

 

Or I get asked "why did it end, what happened" again irrelevant and more of a problem if I massage the truth and say something like "I dated 3 years ago".

 

 

I am not charming but I do take an interest and listen intently to what people tell me and I try engage them on that subject even if its one that doesn't really interest me. I had a nice date with an au pair and all we really talked about were the 3 kids she looks after.

 

 

Body language and facial expressions are very hard work because then I become un natural and just plain awkward. I tried for years trying to replicate some of these with little success. I am more relaxed when I am simply me.

 

 

One of the things I do now to avoid the social stigma of no gf is to imply that I do try to date, which is partially true even if its maybe 4 dates a year. A case in point of how different I end up being is this, sit at a coffee shop with a friend, athletic pretty girl walks past

 

 

Him: wow she is hot, I'd love to .... her.

Me: She looks great, I'd like to get to know her.

 

 

There is the complete difference as to how I go about things.

[normal person]

Maybe part of the problem is a lack of sexual tension.

 

 

One of the things I do now to avoid the social stigma of no gf is to imply that I do try to date, which is partially true even if its maybe 4 dates a year. A case in point of how different I end up being is this, sit at a coffee shop with a friend, athletic pretty girl walks past

 

 

Him: wow she is hot, I'd love to .... her.

Me: She looks great, I'd like to get to know her.

 

 

There is the complete difference as to how I go about things.

 

On an instinctual level, women want to be desired for their looks, beauty, health, etc. That isn't to say they don't want you to appreciate the other stuff too, but if you insist, or give the impression that the cosmetic angle isn't that important to you as the other things, you're in a way, denying her her basic desire to be desired. You're almost saying "I don't find you attractive, but don't worry because I'm not interested in looks anyways." Hardly flattering. Also, you might think branding yourself as the nice guy who doesn't care about such things gives you a certain niche, but in reality, her subconscious is going to make her think less of you. All men desire beauty and on a primal level, objectify women (at least in the visual sense), and women know this. The man who insists he doesn't care about beauty probably insists so because he lacks the competence to actually be with someone with beauty, and that's how he justifies it to himself and to the world. It's counterintuitive, and counter-biological even, so it warrants caution or skepticism from people.

 

Don't neglect the sexual undertones of your interactions. Yeah, it's ok to be nice, as long as that's not all you are. At the end of the day, women still want to know that you desire them. And if you're the kind of guy who just waves the "I'm just a nice guy who wants to get to know you and nothing else" flag, it may be counterproductive. You need to make her feel some heat too.

[Cookiesandough]

It may be the lack of sexuality. It might be sending LGBF vibes or just creeping them out in general.

[GemmaUK]

The strange thing is I have never been interested in my dates dating history, for me its completely irrelevant[/quote[

You can see just by multitudes of threads on here how past relationships can impact or tell a story about someone enough to suss out how dating them might be.

You probably read here only and have no interest on a meet though - which could come across as not being very interested in getting to know the emotional side of them.

Many people say to never talk about past relationships on a date but as long as people don't drone on I think it's a good way to get an idea of someone.

Dating will come up - because you're on a date or a dating app/site so it's bound to be a topic. You need to deal with that and not sulk - it kinda sounds like you sulk, get defensive and shut down from what you're saying.

 

so when 15 minutes is spent asking me questions about mine, yes I do become dismissing and at that point I am no longer interested in the person so if they block me I couldn't really care less.

Your choice if you choose to dismiss them but they're trying to get to know your emotional side. See above for sulking.

You also do seem to care as you start a thread when someone blocks you.

 

Or I get asked "why did it end, what happened" again irrelevant and more of a problem if I massage the truth and say something like "I dated 3 years ago".

So don't lie, just be yourself. Tell the truth.

 

I am not charming

So be charming, did you read JJ's very good link?

Practice it, learn it, you can totally still be you, just a charming you.

 

Body language and facial expressions are very hard work because then I become un natural and just plain awkward. I tried for years trying to replicate some of these with little success. I am more relaxed when I am simply me.

Oh for goodness sake!! Body language and facial expressions are your own - there's just learned behaviours to have some control over is all!

An example - your best friend is walking towards you with drinks, he is looking at you and the drinks trying not to spill them, not at the ground. He trips on a rock accidentally and you get the drinks all over you as a result.

Do you scowl at him or smile, laugh and see it was an accident?

 

I think one of the things I first posted in response to you some years ago was to learn a bit about body language - as in learn what is positive looking and negative looking when you meet someone - I am pretty sure I even described it. There are so many books and videos on the subject - have you ever done any research at all?

It's a fascinating subject - from a personal and a people watching angle.

It's also part of why I keep attempting to encourage you to smile (OK you say you did start smiling) but also just having queue conversations or whatever with anyone and everyone - not just a potential date - practice it.

 

I agree with Normal Person in that - and I know it already that there is no sexual tension being delivered by you.

 

Much as women love men who love our minds there's animal instinct too - we also love sex and that is where dating is different to friendships.

 

ZA, you need to do some research, learning and practising things, otherwise you will not get a second date but any meet or date you have is an ideal opportunity to practise.

[Imajerk17]

I agree with what the other posters are saying. ZA, you provide only snapshots but this is what I think is happening. Basically, when you are on your dates you seem to like to stick to safe topics like hobbies and work. You also don't compliment your dates or carry yourself around them so they feel the male-female polarity. And when your dates do bring up deeper topics--e.g., in this thread past relationships--you end up getting defensive and dashing away from it.

 

If nothing else, that women are bringing up past relationship history should give YOU a chance to delve into *their* lives--what makes them, them. Why would you NOT be curious about that This also may even be a great chance to introduce some sexual tension and make a quick joke about make-up sex or angry-sex (without staying on the topic or being smarmy about it of course). Anyway, what is happening instead is that you are being offered these great chances to get to know these women on a more emotional level, and you just keep passing up on them.

 

You need to understand that avoiding topics uncomfortable to you isn't going to cut it. If all you talk about is surface stuff (hobbies, what do you do for work, ect) then there is no connection and there will be no second date.

 

RE what @GammaUK said body language and whatnot, I am thinking of an interaction I had with the cashier of the grocery store I went to during my lunch today. Now we aren't in each other's dating pool, I am like twice her age for one thing. But I will give her this, when she asked 'how my day was going', she looked right into my eyes and I could feel it. And if I could feel it as a man, how do you think women feel when we focus our attention on them?

 

You may think it's such a small thing. But body language such as this, means a lot, especially over the course of a date. Whether you are focused on her during the conversation and giving her solid eye-contact and touches on the hand and shoulder (without overdoing it), OR whether you are fidgeting and looking away, can really make or break the date. Something for you to consider.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Imajerk17

[ZA Dater]

I agree with what the other posters are saying. ZA, you provide only snapshots but this is what I think is happening. Basically, when you are on your dates you seem to like to stick to safe topics like hobbies and work. You also don't compliment your dates or carry yourself around them so they feel the male-female polarity. And when your dates do bring up deeper topics--e.g., in this thread past relationships--you end up getting defensive and dashing away from it.

 

If nothing else, that women are bringing up past relationship history should give YOU a chance to delve into *their* lives--what makes them, them. Why would you NOT be curious about that This also may even be a great chance to introduce some sexual tension and make a quick joke about make-up sex or angry-sex (without staying on the topic or being smarmy about it of course). Anyway, what is happening instead is that you are being offered these great chances to get to know these women on a more emotional level, and you just keep passing up on them.

 

You need to understand that avoiding topics uncomfortable to you isn't going to cut it. If all you talk about is surface stuff (hobbies, what do you do for work, ect) then there is no connection and there will be no second date.

 

RE what @GammaUK said body language and whatnot, I am thinking of an interaction I had with the cashier of the grocery store I went to during my lunch today. Now we aren't in each other's dating pool, I am like twice her age for one thing. But I will give her this, when she asked 'how my day was going', she looked right into my eyes and I could feel it. And if I could feel it as a man, how do you think women feel when we focus our attention on them?

 

You may think it's such a small thing. But body language such as this, means a lot, especially over the course of a date. Whether you are focused on her during the conversation and giving her solid eye-contact and touches on the hand and shoulder (without overdoing it), OR whether you are fidgeting and looking away, can really make or break the date. Something for you to consider.

 

 

 

I cant dispute the validity of the above because it is all very valid and good advice.

 

 

Not sure where you get I don't compliment my dates, I always do but I don't over do it.

 

 

I just don't find past relationships to be very interest or very relevant in the moment at all so to be blunt that topic simply bores me, probably in part because I have nothing to add to that topic. I wish I could share the facial expression of someone I went out with when this happened.

 

 

Here: So, when was your last relationship

Me: I haven't ever had one.

 

 

Of course I will now probably be told I shouldn't have said that but why not, its the hones truth? Would it have been better to simply make something up to please the intended audience. I have never asked any date about past relationships, usually that info is volunteered, though as mentioned it doesn't interest me.

 

 

Perhaps I look at this wrong but for me what makes a person a person is their outlook, do they accept their position now or are they seeking to better it. Do they have opinions? Do they have beliefs and what are those beliefs. Unfortunately 90% of the time the answers to these questions are so underwhelming I almost loose interest immediately. In short I am not easily impressed at all, probably because so many of these dates have been unremarkable.

 

 

You are probably right about connection, I never get that anyway so I default to " business/work mode" where I remove most of the emotion from the conversation, find a topic they like and talk about that.

 

 

What you describe with the cashier is what I call genuine interest, it doesn't have to be in a dating context and for me its very rare to find that.

 

 

Another case in point, a friend of mine, he is as hopeless at dating as me, he went off to Asia on holiday and had great success with girls, meeting, talking, interacting. Here is completely hopeless at it. Why did he have success there, I'd hazard because by and large the people are more hospitable and warm than they are here.

 

 

I have been guilty of the fidgeting, looking away thing, usually when I loose interest (another reason I am off dinner dates), likewise I have given many my undivided attention with not a dramatically different result.

[ZA Dater]

The strange thing is I have never been interested in my dates dating history, for me its completely irrelevant[/quote[

You can see just by multitudes of threads on here how past relationships can impact or tell a story about someone enough to suss out how dating them might be.

You probably read here only and have no interest on a meet though - which could come across as not being very interested in getting to know the emotional side of them.

Many people say to never talk about past relationships on a date but as long as people don't drone on I think it's a good way to get an idea of someone.

Dating will come up - because you're on a date or a dating app/site so it's bound to be a topic. You need to deal with that and not sulk - it kinda sounds like you sulk, get defensive and shut down from what you're saying.

 

 

Your choice if you choose to dismiss them but they're trying to get to know your emotional side. See above for sulking.

You also do seem to care as you start a thread when someone blocks you.

 

 

So don't lie, just be yourself. Tell the truth.

 

 

So be charming, did you read JJ's very good link?

Practice it, learn it, you can totally still be you, just a charming you.

 

 

Oh for goodness sake!! Body language and facial expressions are your own - there's just learned behaviours to have some control over is all!

An example - your best friend is walking towards you with drinks, he is looking at you and the drinks trying not to spill them, not at the ground. He trips on a rock accidentally and you get the drinks all over you as a result.

Do you scowl at him or smile, laugh and see it was an accident?

 

I think one of the things I first posted in response to you some years ago was to learn a bit about body language - as in learn what is positive looking and negative looking when you meet someone - I am pretty sure I even described it. There are so many books and videos on the subject - have you ever done any research at all?

It's a fascinating subject - from a personal and a people watching angle.

It's also part of why I keep attempting to encourage you to smile (OK you say you did start smiling) but also just having queue conversations or whatever with anyone and everyone - not just a potential date - practice it.

 

I agree with Normal Person in that - and I know it already that there is no sexual tension being delivered by you.

 

Much as women love men who love our minds there's animal instinct too - we also love sex and that is where dating is different to friendships.

 

ZA, you need to do some research, learning and practising things, otherwise you will not get a second date but any meet or date you have is an ideal opportunity to practise.

 

 

 

Ok I read the list of charming things and surprisingly I do most of that barring the touching and I certainly don't do "look for agreement" I don't actually like people who agree with me all the time, I'd rather someone disagree with me and take a point of view on the matter than simply blindly agree.

 

 

I try to keep very open body language BUT MOST of the time I a sitting on dates with people that don't interest me so essentially my mind isn't in the game to begin with but I go hoping the person might interest me and hoping I can get some practice at whatever I should be practicing. There was the drunk one who was all over me, how much of that was me I doubtful, more like the bottle of wine she drank.

 

 

So when I don't get a second date I am usually not that upset anymore. Its like water off my back, sure there have been perhaps 5 times where I did actually like the person enough to want a second date and in those instances it was disappointing but when I look back none of them ever took an interest in me anyway, it was all about them and nobody else.

[ZA Dater]

Maybe part of the problem is a lack of sexual tension.

 

 

 

On an instinctual level, women want to be desired for their looks, beauty, health, etc. That isn't to say they don't want you to appreciate the other stuff too, but if you insist, or give the impression that the cosmetic angle isn't that important to you as the other things, you're in a way, denying her her basic desire to be desired. You're almost saying "I don't find you attractive, but don't worry because I'm not interested in looks anyways." Hardly flattering. Also, you might think branding yourself as the nice guy who doesn't care about such things gives you a certain niche, but in reality, her subconscious is going to make her think less of you. All men desire beauty and on a primal level, objectify women (at least in the visual sense), and women know this. The man who insists he doesn't care about beauty probably insists so because he lacks the competence to actually be with someone with beauty, and that's how he justifies it to himself and to the world. It's counterintuitive, and counter-biological even, so it warrants caution or skepticism from people.

 

Don't neglect the sexual undertones of your interactions. Yeah, it's ok to be nice, as long as that's not all you are. At the end of the day, women still want to know that you desire them. And if you're the kind of guy who just waves the "I'm just a nice guy who wants to get to know you and nothing else" flag, it may be counterproductive. You need to make her feel some heat too.

 

 

 

I cannot fault any of the above at all. There is probably 90% truth here.

 

 

The truth is only maybe a handful of times have I ever gone out with someone I really thought was incredibly beautiful. For the rest I basically determined what I can and cant get so most of the time I am shopping in the isle with matches I don't really want and need to rationalise that by saying "ok maybe she is a nice person" so yes I pretty much validate your point above.

 

 

Again I am just nice, I am not offering up anything else, what must I offer up exactly, I can flirt with them in a sexual way when texting but when I don't really find the person that attractive I am simply going down a road to nothing that I actually want.

 

 

I am just very awkward when it comes to affection, even hugging people was awkward until I got used to it and I know I don't give out that affectionate vibe at all which probably makes everything fall flat on its face like a pancake on the ground.

 

 

I must add a proviso to all of this, it used to bother me a LOT but lately I find I just accept it for what it is, sure it does make me sad sometimes when I see people on dates, I interact with friends who tell me how great their girlfriends are. Then I go to dinner with other friends and their wives and for the life of me I cannot understand why my friends married the people they did, I just don't get it nor do I ever see the attraction.

 

 

In that argument I suspect they are having the last laugh because while they have someone I have nothing but I suppose the age old question is, do you settle so you don't end up with nothing or is it better to have nothing but maybe just once have had someone you really wanted?

 

 

The point really is I am told I am judgemental and its wrong but its ok for everyone to judge me based on no experience? If I could go back I could have fixed most of this if I had made different decisions at 22/23. Quite simply its too late now.

[Imajerk17]

I cant dispute the validity of the above because it is all very valid and good advice.

 

 

Not sure where you get I don't compliment my dates, I always do but I don't over do it.

 

 

I just don't find past relationships to be very interest or very relevant in the moment at all so to be blunt that topic simply bores me, probably in part because I have nothing to add to that topic. I wish I could share the facial expression of someone I went out with when this happened.

 

 

Here: So, when was your last relationship

Me: I haven't ever had one.

 

Of course I will now probably be told I shouldn't have said that but why not, its the hones truth? Would it have been better to simply make something up to please the intended audience. I have never asked any date about past relationships, usually that info is volunteered, though as mentioned it doesn't interest me.

 

 

Perhaps I look at this wrong but for me what makes a person a person is their outlook, do they accept their position now or are they seeking to better it. Do they have opinions? Do they have beliefs and what are those beliefs. Unfortunately 90% of the time the answers to these questions are so underwhelming I almost loose interest immediately. In short I am not easily impressed at all, probably because so many of these dates have been unremarkable.

 

 

You are probably right about connection, I never get that anyway so I default to " business/work mode" where I remove most of the emotion from the conversation, find a topic they like and talk about that.

 

 

What you describe with the cashier is what I call genuine interest, it doesn't have to be in a dating context and for me its very rare to find that.

 

 

Another case in point, a friend of mine, he is as hopeless at dating as me, he went off to Asia on holiday and had great success with girls, meeting, talking, interacting. Here is completely hopeless at it. Why did he have success there, I'd hazard because by and large the people are more hospitable and warm than they are here.

 

 

I have been guilty of the fidgeting, looking away thing, usually when I loose interest (another reason I am off dinner dates), likewise I have given many my undivided attention with not a dramatically different result.

 

If you don't find relationships to be at all interesting to you, then why would you even bother dating to seek one out

 

That you cannot convey curiosity about the girl--and past relationships tend to be a big part of it--just puts you at an insurmountable disadvantage.

 

Anyway, RE being asked by your date about past relationships, I am also wondering of the context as to how the question came up. If you ever feel like you are being interrogated then playfully call it out. Tell her to answer the question she asked you first. And if she keeps up interrogating you, then that's rude you shouldn't be interested anyway.

 

(I keep saying that you should consult a dating coach, the above paragraph is about the underlying flow of a conversation not just the particular topic, subtext, how to banter and handle what some call 'tests', ect. And no one can lay out 'what you should do' in one or even a few posts. I get the impression that, among other things, you are missing what is really happening in the interactions. And it is a big reason why you are having these issues.)

Edited February 8, 2018 by Imajerk17

[Cookiesandough]

. With all the topics there should be to talk about, that "past relationships" are coming up at all seems to be indicative of a problem. I did this all the time when I was dating, but I wasn't taking it seriously. Who wants to listen to someone they are interested in go on and on about their past relationships? Now I find it kind of an inappropriate first date topic. "When was your last relationship" should be as far as it goes if it even goes there.

[CptInsano]

. With all the topics there should be to talk about, that "past relationships" are coming up at all seems to be indicative of a problem. I did this all the time when I was dating, but I wasn't taking it seriously. Who wants to listen to someone they are interested in go on and on about their past relationships? Now I find it kind of an inappropriate first date topic. "When was your last relationship" should be as far as it goes if it even goes there.

 

Somebody once took me on a grand tour of her failed OLD dates, meaning that our date consisted of visiting all the locations of her bad OLS dates around the city. Since we had to consume something in the bars and pubs it almost felt like a drinking game. The stories were actually rather amusing.

[ZA Dater]

If you don't find relationships to be at all interesting to you, then why would you even bother dating to seek one out

 

That you cannot convey curiosity about the girl--and past relationships tend to be a big part of it--just puts you at an insurmountable disadvantage.

 

Anyway, RE being asked by your date about past relationships, I am also wondering of the context as to how the question came up. If you ever feel like you are being interrogated then playfully call it out. Tell her to answer the question she asked you first. And if she keeps up interrogating you, then that's rude you shouldn't be interested anyway.

 

(I keep saying that you should consult a dating coach, the above paragraph is about the underlying flow of a conversation not just the particular topic, subtext, how to banter and handle what some call 'tests', ect. And no one can lay out 'what you should do' in one or even a few posts. I get the impression that, among other things, you are missing what is really happening in the interactions. And it is a big reason why you are having these issues.)

 

 

Truthfully don't find many of them particularly interesting which I suppose basically says it all, one of the most attractive things for me is someone who for whatever reasons seems to stand out in some way, that's interesting, someone who bucks societies trends in some way or form, be in interests of general outlook.

 

 

I don't care about her last bf or the one before that, really its irrelevant to me, the fact she brings it up suggests she cares a little too much about him. By this I am talking generally.

 

 

Perhaps I am too picky.

 

 

My point is there are many interesting things to talk about, past relationships isn't one of them. I think if I ever get asked this question again I am going to make up some exotic elaborate story.

 

 

My problem I think is I simply conduct dates like I would a business meeting which clearly doesn't work but I haven't ever really felt compelled to change this approach because nobody has made me think about doing something different, i.e. almost none of the dates I really liked that much to be motivated to change that approach.

 

 

That's the kicker really, few people ever arrive on the scene that I want enough to actually want to change to try and appeal to them. Or I want them but the numbers don't add up.

[ZA Dater]

Somebody once took me on a grand tour of her failed OLD dates, meaning that our date consisted of visiting all the locations of her bad OLS dates around the city. Since we had to consume something in the bars and pubs it almost felt like a drinking game. The stories were actually rather amusing.

 

 

 

I have done this before because some of them were funny and I decided I didn't really like her that much.

[GemmaUK]

I don't think you understood JJ's link properly. Most definitely not the agreeable section.

I've seen before where it seems you maybe speed read or skim so don't take time to understand the context or maybe don't read all of a point to reach the conclusion of said point.

 

With all due respect ZA, you have never mentioned that you compliment dates (you definitely haven't this in the many threads of yours which I have read of yours and responded to so we can't be expected to know it.

It is very difficult squeezing information out of you and each thread exposes new unknown problems to us the reader.

 

You also say you conduct a date like a business meeting, so if you consistently get 'no sale' in a business meeting would you just stick with the same approach each and every time?

 

Many folk on here have given excellent advice, pretty much all of that advice has been about things which are totally learnable and changeable.

You give excuses for why not to make changes consistently.

 

You also love to shift blame and I've seen it mostly in other people's threads - so therefore it's kinda hidden away from your own threads so that your own threads remains very 'nice guy'. Your happy spot is agreeing wholeheartedly with the general idea that women are the problem.

 

Perhaps, you need to tell us what advice it is that you want - as in what you would actualy be open to trying. Or, if all you wish to do is vent then be upfront about it.

 

I am wondering

[ZA Dater]

I don't think you understood JJ's link properly. Most definitely not the agreeable section.

I've seen before where it seems you maybe speed read or skim so don't take time to understand the context or maybe don't read all of a point to reach the conclusion of said point.

 

With all due respect ZA, you have never mentioned that you compliment dates (you definitely haven't this in the many threads of yours which I have read of yours and responded to so we can't be expected to know it.

It is very difficult squeezing information out of you and each thread exposes new unknown problems to us the reader.

 

You also say you conduct a date like a business meeting, so if you consistently get 'no sale' in a business meeting would you just stick with the same approach each and every time?

 

Many folk on here have given excellent advice, pretty much all of that advice has been about things which are totally learnable and changeable.

You give excuses for why not to make changes consistently.

 

You also love to shift blame and I've seen it mostly in other people's threads - so therefore it's kinda hidden away from your own threads so that your own threads remains very 'nice guy'. Your happy spot is agreeing wholeheartedly with the general idea that women are the problem.

 

Perhaps, you need to tell us what advice it is that you want - as in what you would actualy be open to trying. Or, if all you wish to do is vent then be upfront about it.

 

I am wondering

 

 

I smile at people, I try to have relaxed body language, I compliment people, I make sure I listen to them and take an interest in the conversation, I open doors for ladies, walk them to their cars, contact them to make sure they got home ok, I make sure dates are closer for them than for me. I hug them when I meet them, I maintain eye contact as much as possible. When I look at that list I do most of those things with the exception of touching. I refuse to make them pay. What more should I be doing? Please tell me.

 

 

Those are the things I do on dates and yet for all this I get asked over and over again about past relationships? Why, honestly, take what is in front of you now and work with that, don't try and then understand what went wrong in the past because people being people there are many intangible unquantifiable things which can go wrong.

 

 

I look at a company, I look at numbers, perhaps going back 5 years and I know what's going on but it doesn't tell me is Joe in accounts is any good at his job, I need to meet Joe to determine that.

 

 

My point is this, why judge people on the past over judging them on the present?

 

 

For what you may say I do try hard to date and I have tried hard in the past but you get to a point and wonder whether its worth putting so much into something you get so little of anything out, certainly doesn't make me happy meeting endless of the same sort of person.

 

 

Do you know how hard it is to change yourself consistently? In fact I think you do because you have told me so before. I do try and try and try and the results are always the same or worse still I find a ever decreasing pool of people I find interesting enough to even want to meet up with.

 

 

As for shifting blame, yes I do believe some of the dates I have been out with, they were the problem, in fact I'd say as many as 50% were. See how much you enjoy being judged every minute of a date, how you enjoy the answers to questions being met by frowns, or how you feel when you are repeatedly asked the same completely irrelevant questions, mostly about how I don't like what other guys do. It becomes tiresome and I fail to see how I can be responsible for the actions of a date sitting in front o me or the questions they ask.

 

 

The other famous question is "how many girlfriends have you had" like this really matters, I couldn't care if she has had one bf or 100. Its irrelevant to me, what is relevant is what is sitting in front of me at that moment. I am not going to openly dislike someone based on how many bf's they have had. I would if their behaviour was not great but one fact wouldn't make me dislike them.

 

 

Case in point was an au pair I really liked, had a great date with her, she then said "there is no chemistry but lets be friends", needless to say this was lip service because I got blocked. Guess what she is still single and still hasn't found anyone.

 

 

I always put my best foot forward but when no interest is taken in me, yes I then revert to a business meeting mode because by that point I have lost interest in the person. Thanks to the advice here I wont do dinner dates anymore for this exact reason.

 

 

Do you disagree that you either click with people or you don't? I simply don't click with many people which I suppose is my problem but it doesn't make it any less irritating more so when the rare person I do click with isn't interested in me. This fact has lead to me exploring ideas and simply playing a numbers game of going out with anyone who will go out with me, again advice from here.

 

 

I do try to be as relaxed on dates as possible and more than that I try fake some confidence, again advice from here. Heck I even try make people laugh even if they are just laughing at me, which is ok.

 

 

While I am volunteering information, I live a weird life, I have spent considerable time with the poor and considerable time with the extremely successful so I have a wide perspective on people. The fundamentals with me will always be the same, I am not going to hide the fact I don't like going to bars and clubs, people find this truly baffling and its ALWAYS asked why, why because I don't like alcohol and I don't find clubs are bars interesting places. BUT of course the hand of judgement comes out and I am written off for not conforming to what her friends bf's do.

 

 

Yes, I am really just fighting some sort of battle against conformist thinking and loosing badly at it. I am quite confident about who I am and what I believe in, even though it seems there are next to no people who share any of those beliefs.

 

 

Worst still perhaps its about time people stopped being so politically correct and actually calling things as they are, aupair "there is no chemisty", simply say "you are ugly", I can respect the latter, the former is just a polite way of saying nothing.

 

 

Everything about dating seems to be a game, why does it have to be, who prescribed these rules and why? People just accept everything with blind faith, few actually question why?

 

 

Where do you meet people and how? Its honestly impossible for me because what do I say? Book store, I went to the bookstore everyday this week after work, guess how many people I saw talking to each other, none.

 

 

For all my apparent whining and complaining I do learn a lot here, if nothing more sometimes than realising mistakes I made which I cannot fix and maybe sometimes I feel some degree of hope or sometimes I just realise I need to make do with just having the odd friend here and there.

[SevenCity]

. With all the topics there should be to talk about, that "past relationships" are coming up at all seems to be indicative of a problem. I did this all the time when I was dating, but I wasn't taking it seriously. Who wants to listen to someone they are interested in go on and on about their past relationships? Now I find it kind of an inappropriate first date topic. "When was your last relationship" should be as far as it goes if it even goes there.

 

I agree with Cookies again.

 

I actually use this as a filter technique. If a chick is talking too much about exes she’s automatically demoted to FB before we even have sex. I can count on one hand the times I wasn’t asked about mine. They all seem to ask.

 

ZA - I would go one step further and say the reason they are prying so much is because you are giving off a vibe of lack of experience.

 

Either lie or own it. But be comfortable with either. You are being tested and failing.

 

You seem like a logical intelligent guy. That said, you have to realize that humans are far from logical (especially women) and the answer to your troubles doesn’t lie with a simple logical solution.

 

Instead, you need to work on your EQ. People in general base their decisions on emotions (especially women). How we may want someone to act or react seldom aligns with our wishes unless you learn to give the proper input (even then it doesn’t always work but increases your chances).

 

Several times I was asked by an Asian girl if I ever dated an Asian. I’ve learned to say yes but limit the numbers as it will give the impression I 1) have an Asian fetish (perhaps true ) and 2) give them too much information about how many I have slept with. These both make them feel less special (emotion). If I only dated white girls (being a white dude) no one would think I had a fetish. Again, not logical.

 

I am imagining you get all butt hurt when asked about your past, mainly because you are not happy with it. You have to prevent reacting poorly from the words of a stranger. Women will test you and gauge your reaction to see if you’re strong and centered. They want to be with a strong man.

 

Now back to the logic discussion. PUA techniques are meant to take emotional problems and turn them into logical problems. Do X, get Y. It’s not to say I agree with or follow all or that they work on all women, but I have found some good pieces of information (some of which is described in this thread). I would recommend getting some books and pulling information you can incorporate naturally to your personality. These are similar to sales techniques and work well in many situations. “Models” was a good book and I will read it again now that I remember. Corey Wayne also has great material geared towards pick up, dating, and relationships. His worked has helped my game tremendously. His is not PUA, but rather break down why women act the way they do and what to do to keep them happy.

 

What you are doing now is not working. Time to take a different approach.

[ZA Dater]

I agree with Cookies again.

 

I actually use this as a filter technique. If a chick is talking too much about exes she’s automatically demoted to FB before we even have sex. I can count on one hand the times I wasn’t asked about mine. They all seem to ask.

 

ZA - I would go one step further and say the reason they are prying so much is because you are giving off a vibe of lack of experience.

 

Either lie or own it. But be comfortable with either. You are being tested and failing.

 

You seem like a logical intelligent guy. That said, you have to realize that humans are far from logical (especially women) and the answer to your troubles doesn’t lie with a simple logical solution.

 

Instead, you need to work on your EQ. People in general base their decisions on emotions (especially women). How we may want someone to act or react seldom aligns with our wishes unless you learn to give the proper input (even then it doesn’t always work but increases your chances).

 

Several times I was asked by an Asian girl if I ever dated an Asian. I’ve learned to say yes but limit the numbers as it will give the impression I 1) have an Asian fetish (perhaps true ) and 2) give them too much information about how many I have slept with. These both make them feel less special (emotion). If I only dated white girls (being a white dude) no one would think I had a fetish. Again, not logical.

 

I am imagining you get all butt hurt when asked about your past, mainly because you are not happy with it. You have to prevent reacting poorly from the words of a stranger. Women will test you and gauge your reaction to see if you’re strong and centered. They want to be with a strong man.

 

Now back to the logic discussion. PUA techniques are meant to take emotional problems and turn them into logical problems. Do X, get Y. It’s not to say I agree with or follow all or that they work on all women, but I have found some good pieces of information (some of which is described in this thread). I would recommend getting some books and pulling information you can incorporate naturally to your personality. These are similar to sales techniques and work well in many situations. “Models” was a good book and I will read it again now that I remember. Corey Wayne also has great material geared towards pick up, dating, and relationships. His worked has helped my game tremendously. His is not PUA, but rather break down why women act the way they do and what to do to keep them happy.

 

What you are doing now is not working. Time to take a different approach.

 

 

 

Funny that you mention that because I by and large don't make rash emotional decisions at all. I weigh up odd and probabilities and then decide which way to go. Which means often decision take time. Do I regret missing out sometimes because of this sure but I'd regret a bad decision more if it was made on impulse.

 

 

There isn't a past and when I say that its game over so how I react is irrelevant, someone who might be half keen is immediately put off. Clearly past does matter, even though I think its completely silly to delve extensively into the past because posters here keep telling me "you can change to something else" which makes the past even less relevant. Nobody is the same person they were 5 years ago.

[GemmaUK]

The point with 'try' is to choose to make it a consistent try.

Not to ditch it and show your disinterest on a date.

 

Something you are consistent in saying is that people don't like you upon meeting you.

Something is therefore off there.

All I can think of is body language, facial expressions, you say you don't know what fun is and you don't like most women you even plan to meet.

You also have very high standards.

 

You need to choose what you want to find for now:

To be on your own

To get laid and to be a player - per your thread in the sex section.

To be upfront and maybe like JJ and many others (I've told you about mine, my brother and my ex's experiences) meet someone older, be brave, tell them of your inexperience and go ahead and have some fun and do some learning

Or, you look for a real relationship, right off with no issues (relationships aren't like that - they take time to find). It takes learning, we have all been there but you don't seem to accept that we have.

 

The thing is that the real relationship thing right now with your lack of experience and unwillingness to just open up with (or even have an occasional drink with someone other than K the woman you are still hung up on and drink alcohol with) someone or your wish to lie about your past - you're looking for the hardest thing of all with no real intent even.

Not if you meet people who don't interest you at all, not even initially - which you keep on saying is what you choose to do.

 

Choose your goal - this is what you are actually missing - your goal.

Then you put the reading, research and practice in place.

Seven City has some recommendations - read up - but pick your goal before you read and do the research - then you will know where to aim.

It sounds to me like he has employed ideas and tried and rolled with them, turning them into something which becomes a habit. Trying becomes a habit.

Try on it's own is not a habit.

[ZA Dater]

The point with 'try' is to choose to make it a consistent try.

Not to ditch it and show your disinterest on a date.

 

Something you are consistent in saying is that people don't like you upon meeting you.

Something is therefore off there.

All I can think of is body language, facial expressions, you say you don't know what fun is and you don't like most women you even plan to meet.

You also have very high standards.

 

You need to choose what you want to find for now:

To be on your own

To get laid and to be a player - per your thread in the sex section.

To be upfront and maybe like JJ and many others (I've told you about mine, my brother and my ex's experiences) meet someone older, be brave, tell them of your inexperience and go ahead and have some fun and do some learning

Or, you look for a real relationship, right off with no issues (relationships aren't like that - they take time to find). It takes learning, we have all been there but you don't seem to accept that we have.

 

The thing is that the real relationship thing right now with your lack of experience and unwillingness to just open up with (or even have an occasional drink with someone other than K the woman you are still hung up on and drink alcohol with) someone or your wish to lie about your past - you're looking for the hardest thing of all with no real intent even.

Not if you meet people who don't interest you at all, not even initially - which you keep on saying is what you choose to do.

 

Choose your goal - this is what you are actually missing - your goal.

Then you put the reading, research and practice in place.

Seven City has some recommendations - read up - but pick your goal before you read and do the research - then you will know where to aim.

It sounds to me like he has employed ideas and tried and rolled with them, turning them into something which becomes a habit. Trying becomes a habit.

Try on it's own is not a habit.

 

A few things.

 

If I don't like someone I am not going to continue trying. That's illogical. What I do on dates I keep consistent in terms of my approach which centres around be treated how you would like to be treated.

 

I am not interested in older people at all unless they are in good shape and kids free which reduces the pool to pretty much nothing.

 

I fully accept you and others have been there but not at over 30 you haven't. As I have said more than once learning is expected to have been done and the fact I keep getting asked about past relationships backs this up.

 

My goal has always been simple, find someone to enjoy spending time with so I don't end up doing everything on my own, would be nice if I actually like her and she likes me, it's such a huge struggle to try and make people like me. It's extremely irritating to be out and about and all the time I am judged for not having a partner. At least for club events I sorted that problem but it's a band aid solution of a huge cut but it's better than nothing and I can just try ideas with knowing I have nothing to loose.

 

I just live an incredibly lonely life which I try fill with things to keep me busy with less time to feel lonely.

[GemmaUK]

If I don't like someone I am not going to continue trying. That's illogical. What I do on dates I keep consistent in terms of my approach which centres around be treated how you would like to be treated.

Fantastic! Good first choice to make.

So no more contacting or continuing chatting or going on first meets with someone you're not at all interested in.

Also, a good choice made on if you do find someone to not be for you to still treat them with kindness, respect and manners, not to do what you have done and become dismissive.

A meet or date doesn't go on forever so there is no need to not treat someone well for the whole entire date.

 

I am not interested in older people at all unless they are in good shape and kids free which reduces the pool to pretty much nothing.

Then don't chat with them or agree to meet them in future.

 

I fully accept you and others have been there but not at over 30 you haven't. As I have said more than once learning is expected to have been done and the fact I keep getting asked about past relationships backs this up.

At way over 30 I am still learning, if you let go of the break pedal then there's loads you can learn too and it just becomes a part of you - but it seems you are coming around to that.

 

My goal has always been simple, find someone to enjoy spending time with so I don't end up doing everything on my own, would be nice if I actually like her and she likes me, it's such a huge struggle to try and make people like me.

OK, so you have chosen your goal too - excellent!

Sounds like you're choosing also, to be less picky and to let go of some of the barriers you stringently hold up.

The struggle is going to be a lot less so as you seem to have come around to making some permanent changes. Now is the time to get doing some reading and research and applying tips and tricks into your daily life.

Body language, PUA tips I think would also help you. You don't need to be fake and go the whole hog, it's just little things to adopt and adapt to try out with anyone anywhere. These things will also teach you to read people better as you will be watching for reactions and gauging them.

Find yourself a good big website with books and reviews

The Joy of Sex is an oldie but a must read if you haven't already too which will give you loads of advice for not just sex but learning about touch and intimacy too.

Touch is so very important, it's that gentle further step from getting to the point of having fun on a date and where you reach the point of bouncing off one another, touch is the next crucial step before kissing.

 

I can just try ideas with knowing I have nothing to loose.

Absolutely 100%!!! You have nothing to lose at all! I'm so glad you finally see this.

Good for you! I'm glad you are seeing that things need to change, it will take work and perseverance but it will so very worth it!

 

I just live an incredibly lonely life which I try fill with things to keep me busy with less time to feel lonely.

And learning all these new things and making changes will keep you busy, it will have it's good and bad points sure but it's going to seriously ease that loneliness.

[ZA Dater]

Fantastic! Good first choice to make.

So no more contacting or continuing chatting or going on first meets with someone you're not at all interested in.

Also, a good choice made on if you do find someone to not be for you to still treat them with kindness, respect and manners, not to do what you have done and become dismissive.

A meet or date doesn't go on forever so there is no need to not treat someone well for the whole entire date.

 

 

Then don't chat with them or agree to meet them in future.

 

 

At way over 30 I am still learning, if you let go of the break pedal then there's loads you can learn too and it just becomes a part of you - but it seems you are coming around to that.

 

 

OK, so you have chosen your goal too - excellent!

Sounds like you're choosing also, to be less picky and to let go of some of the barriers you stringently hold up.

The struggle is going to be a lot less so as you seem to have come around to making some permanent changes. Now is the time to get doing some reading and research and applying tips and tricks into your daily life.

Body language, PUA tips I think would also help you. You don't need to be fake and go the whole hog, it's just little things to adopt and adapt to try out with anyone anywhere. These things will also teach you to read people better as you will be watching for reactions and gauging them.

Find yourself a good big website with books and reviews

The Joy of Sex is an oldie but a must read if you haven't already too which will give you loads of advice for not just sex but learning about touch and intimacy too.

Touch is so very important, it's that gentle further step from getting to the point of having fun on a date and where you reach the point of bouncing off one another, touch is the next crucial step before kissing.

 

 

Absolutely 100%!!! You have nothing to lose at all! I'm so glad you finally see this.

Good for you! I'm glad you are seeing that things need to change, it will take work and perseverance but it will so very worth it!

 

 

And learning all these new things and making changes will keep you busy, it will have it's good and bad points sure but it's going to seriously ease that loneliness.

 

 

 

The question I have is this, if my body language is good enough and I look good enough, would I get approached?

 

 

Its easy not to be too lonely, just do more work!

 

 

I think you have missed some of the point, I am always kind and well mannered even if the person sitting across from me isn't my cup of tea.

 

 

I have been reading a bit about body language, there are a few basic things that one can do but I suspect my problem lies also with my inability to relate to people and vice versa.

[Imajerk17]

The question I have is this, if my body language is good enough and I look good enough, would I get approached?

 

 

Its easy not to be too lonely, just do more work!

 

 

I think you have missed some of the point, I am always kind and well mannered even if the person sitting across from me isn't my cup of tea.

 

I have been reading a bit about body language, there are a few basic things that one can do but I suspect my problem lies also with my inability to relate to people and vice versa.

 

I personally don't doubt that you are a kind well-mannered guy whether you like the girl or not, ZA. In any case, that is great that you are.

 

The things that (we suspect) you are not doing on your dates (to quite their disappointment)--connecting emotionally with them, coming across diffident/not masculine, not LEADING the interaction in a more romantic direction, have already been covered in your threads already. I also suspect that there is something else going on.

 

Tinder tends to be a pretty tough environment, as many dating apps are. It really is about initial attraction. I suspect that you actually are a good-looking guy in your photos, and so when women off Tinder come out to meet you, they are disappointed that you aren't as confident as they imagined. In a way, a more average-looking guy may have it easier, in that he may be cut more slack as the woman has lower expectations coming in.

 

My point of all this is that you and Tinder just seem to be a bad match in general.

 

Have you considered a match-making service. They do require money to sign up but it sounds that you make a decent living so you can quite afford it. You will be screened to your dates and your dates will be screened to you, so the likelihood of the date being a successful one is much higher.

 

ETA: To answer your question, likely no you still won't get approached, it is on us as men to do the approaching. However, women will be more open to you approaching though.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Imajerk17

[SevenCity]

Funny that you mention that because I by and large don't make rash emotional decisions at all. I weigh up odd and probabilities and then decide which way to go. Which means often decision take time. Do I regret missing out sometimes because of this sure but I'd regret a bad decision more if it was made on impulse.

 

 

There isn't a past and when I say that its game over so how I react is irrelevant, someone who might be half keen is immediately put off. Clearly past does matter, even though I think its completely silly to delve extensively into the past because posters here keep telling me "you can change to something else" which makes the past even less relevant. Nobody is the same person they were 5 years ago.

 

That's exactly my point. You are too logical. I don't say this as an insult, I say this because I am the exact same way. Why should you bother wasting your time if you know your end goal is not going to be met?

 

Here's why: you need practice. Guys in general are logical creatures yet we are attracted to illogical creatures (women) yet expect them to play by our logical rules. It doesn't work that way. You can meet a girl and think "I'm attractive, I have a good job, she laughs at my jokes, she should like me". But you are forgetting the most important part - her emotions.

 

Every date is an opportunity to practice. You have to take clues from her and adjust your behavior accordingly. Last night's date was with a chick who was forced way too much in her masculine through life circumstances. As a result I turned up my alpha game to put her more in her feminine. This meant I had to call her out on stuff she said, stand my ground on beliefs which challenged hers, and assure her I wasn't beta through my actions.

 

Is she good long term material? No. But I make the choice to continue mine. That's how you have to apply logic. And experiences such as this prepare me for when a more feminine woman (which is what I want) tests me to ensure I'm a centered man.

 

Tomorrow's chick is similar though text (haven't spoke yet). I get the impression I've got to break through her hard candy shell in order to get to the soft center. She has tested me via text so far and I've passed. Will she be LTR material? Probably not. But again, from every chick I dated I've learned something.

 

And the great thing about dating a chick who's not LTR material is you can mess up and it doesn't matter as much. The last one I dated would voice her objections about ANYTHING she wasn't happy about. It forced me to evaluate my behavior in some situations. Situations that, had I known the emotional impact, I would not have done with my last girlfriend and could have perhaps prevented her from leaving.

 

Don't go out expecting to find a perfect girl. Even if you find one who seems great you may not feel the same after the honeymoon period wears off (3 months - 2 years). Years ago my friend gave me some good advice ""F her first, then decide if she is gf material". Granted, this has resulted in some numbers which a lot of women may not find acceptable (again, I've learned to lie..lol), but it forces you to judge her worthiness by her actions. For the women I've dated seriously, I had no choice but to commit to them. They were leaps and bounds above the other women I had dated in the way they acted.

 

If you are going out expecting to fail because of your lack of experience, you will. I can only imagine the facial expression/body language you have when asked - even if you don't think you do. Like she just told you she kills puppies for fun. Learn to control your thoughts or they will be your undoing. Practice with a friend and have them ask you about your past and give you feedback. Come up with a positive spin "I've met a lot of great people but no one I wanted to get serious with. The good news is it's just a matter of time before I do!" People like positivity, give it to them.

 

It took me a while to learn this but I'm pretty good on dates now. The hardest part is finding women who think you're attractive enough to go out with. Once you get them out 90% of the battle has been won. The rest is up to you.

[ZA Dater]

That's exactly my point. You are too logical. I don't say this as an insult, I say this because I am the exact same way. Why should you bother wasting your time if you know your end goal is not going to be met?

 

Here's why: you need practice. Guys in general are logical creatures yet we are attracted to illogical creatures (women) yet expect them to play by our logical rules. It doesn't work that way. You can meet a girl and think "I'm attractive, I have a good job, she laughs at my jokes, she should like me". But you are forgetting the most important part - her emotions.

 

Every date is an opportunity to practice. You have to take clues from her and adjust your behavior accordingly. Last night's date was with a chick who was forced way too much in her masculine through life circumstances. As a result I turned up my alpha game to put her more in her feminine. This meant I had to call her out on stuff she said, stand my ground on beliefs which challenged hers, and assure her I wasn't beta through my actions.

 

Is she good long term material? No. But I make the choice to continue mine. That's how you have to apply logic. And experiences such as this prepare me for when a more feminine woman (which is what I want) tests me to ensure I'm a centered man.

 

Tomorrow's chick is similar though text (haven't spoke yet). I get the impression I've got to break through her hard candy shell in order to get to the soft center. She has tested me via text so far and I've passed. Will she be LTR material? Probably not. But again, from every chick I dated I've learned something.

 

And the great thing about dating a chick who's not LTR material is you can mess up and it doesn't matter as much. The last one I dated would voice her objections about ANYTHING she wasn't happy about. It forced me to evaluate my behavior in some situations. Situations that, had I known the emotional impact, I would not have done with my last girlfriend and could have perhaps prevented her from leaving.

 

Don't go out expecting to find a perfect girl. Even if you find one who seems great you may not feel the same after the honeymoon period wears off (3 months - 2 years). Years ago my friend gave me some good advice ""F her first, then decide if she is gf material". Granted, this has resulted in some numbers which a lot of women may not find acceptable (again, I've learned to lie..lol), but it forces you to judge her worthiness by her actions. For the women I've dated seriously, I had no choice but to commit to them. They were leaps and bounds above the other women I had dated in the way they acted.

 

If you are going out expecting to fail because of your lack of experience, you will. I can only imagine the facial expression/body language you have when asked - even if you don't think you do. Like she just told you she kills puppies for fun. Learn to control your thoughts or they will be your undoing. Practice with a friend and have them ask you about your past and give you feedback. Come up with a positive spin "I've met a lot of great people but no one I wanted to get serious with. The good news is it's just a matter of time before I do!" People like positivity, give it to them.

 

It took me a while to learn this but I'm pretty good on dates now. The hardest part is finding women who think you're attractive enough to go out with. Once you get them out 90% of the battle has been won. The rest is up to you.

 

 

 

This is a really good post and I read it a few times. As you say a date is an opportunity to practice which has been my view but the only way I have been able to get that practice is to go out with people I don't really find attractive.

 

 

You say adapt and I get that but honestly I have been so short of dates that I tend to be very careful what I say lest I get a mouthful which might be the wrong way to go about it. The result is I hold back.

 

 

I think you touch on why I have had success and thank you because some things do make more sense now, I do regret making a mess of those exceedingly few times where I had an opportunity with someone I really did like.

 

 

Perfection doesn't really exist but I define perfection as when I connect with someone, which is very rare. If I look back its probably only happened three times.

 

 

When it comes to positive spins I do try put that into most things and most of the time I try make something not so nice into something humorous.

 

 

Somewhere something went wrong because I don't really believe I can get the people I like to go out with me, truthfully I look at who they hang around with me and I am not that sort of guy so its senseless to even try, I can go and sit at a bar and pretend to be ok on my own but that's hardly going to send out any positive vibes.

 

 

Perhaps its sad to say and admit but I don't really believe it can get anyone I like to like me. Nothing I have experienced has ever suggested otherwise and this just makes me sad so I tend to try and get non dating things which I think I can get.

[ZA Dater]

I personally don't doubt that you are a kind well-mannered guy whether you like the girl or not, ZA. In any case, that is great that you are.

 

The things that (we suspect) you are not doing on your dates (to quite their disappointment)--connecting emotionally with them, coming across diffident/not masculine, not LEADING the interaction in a more romantic direction, have already been covered in your threads already. I also suspect that there is something else going on.

 

Tinder tends to be a pretty tough environment, as many dating apps are. It really is about initial attraction. I suspect that you actually are a good-looking guy in your photos, and so when women off Tinder come out to meet you, they are disappointed that you aren't as confident as they imagined. In a way, a more average-looking guy may have it easier, in that he may be cut more slack as the woman has lower expectations coming in.

 

My point of all this is that you and Tinder just seem to be a bad match in general.

 

Have you considered a match-making service. They do require money to sign up but it sounds that you make a decent living so you can quite afford it. You will be screened to your dates and your dates will be screened to you, so the likelihood of the date being a successful one is much higher.

 

ETA: To answer your question, likely no you still won't get approached, it is on us as men to do the approaching. However, women will be more open to you approaching though.

 

 

 

The answer to the bold is simply because I don't know how to, there is no confidence at all or mostly there is no want to either because I don't like the person enough.

 

 

I have only had perhaps a handful of Tinder dates and of that perhaps two were what I would deem attractive to me.

 

 

A few years ago I did try a match making service, unfortunately what those seem to attract here are ladies looking for put up in luxury and looked after which is very off putting and honestly not for me. Make no mistake it is very tough here, I know someone who is way above average look wise and she battled to date, sure she had dates which I guess puts her one up on me but took her ages to find a bf.

 

 

A lot about me is not ideal from a dating point of view, primarily because I am so used to being on my own I sort of just go about my own business and that's that. When I was out today I tried to make eye contact with as many people as I could, look around and try some of Gemma's advice.

 

 

I even tried some of the body language stuff, unconsciously a lot of it was doing already. But as I say I don't really have much belief and I don't really know who is going to make me believe I can actually be with someone I want.