Do you start to become out of step?

[GemmaUK]

Hey Gemma,

 

I’ve loved reading your posts on body language. I just searched for Paul Ekman on Amazon and he’s written a LOT of books. If you don’t mind, could you suggest one for the average joe? I would like to start with a book that has a lot of pictures/photos if you’re aware of any.

 

Hey, Filter Coffee, that's so kind of you to say. Thank you!

 

Big admission here but I haven't yet read any of his books - I really should!

 

I learned about his work simply from watching a superb drama series which I found one day on Netflix called Lie To Me. It's an American TV drama series with English actor Tim Roth..

Basically, it's about the work of a team who specialise in reading and interpreting body language and micro-expressions to help investigators find out 'who did it' and is based upon the work of Paul Ekman.

There's a lot of descriptions, examples, film and pictures in the series which show flickers of expressions of politicians (for instance) who have totally given away their inner thoughts on camera.

It's a fascinating show but also has great plotlines too and on-running background themes about the team and their personal lives.

I was hooked from episode one as I learned so much. Seeing it all in action made it so simple to pick up.

 

I loved it so much that I bought the dvd set.

It's not on UK Netflix any longer but you might find it on there where you line or on one of the other streaming services and it is available to view on youtube but payment is required to view it on there.

 

It really is well worth a watch!

[FilterCoffee]

I learned about his work simply from watching a superb drama series which I found one day on Netflix called Lie To Me.

 

Hey Gemma,

 

I have seen this show before and I never knew it was based on someone’s work. I agree, the show’s a great watch. My local library has a lot of books on the subject so when I find a good one I’ll let you know!

[ZA Dater]

You are not bowing down to the needs of others for chrissakes (!!), you are looking after your own if you fill your response out.

What I and others are suggesting is a good filled out response about why you don't drink so that you only get maybe one or two more questions if any about it.

The drinking issue ruffles your feathers SO MUCH that you would be better finding something that works for you.

What I DO NOT understand is that you continue to say 'I don't drink', No straight up explanation, no empathy there for yourself nor them for what they may think.

You could say:

I don't drink because I'm allergic and my hands swell up if I ingest alcohol.

I don't drink because I don't like the taste, never have.

I don't drink because I love driving and want to always be ready for driving.

Give a reason that can't be questioned too much.

It's easy.

There's black and white but you are really not applying logic nor thinking of the thoughts that might cross other people's minds on this subject. Be aware.

they will ask. The fuller response you give the less they will question you.

 

 

Oh c'mon! You are not a precious flower ZA!

You have a clue how you come accross - you write in depth about it all of the time.

 

 

What you posted about this guy was a diatribe of how you compare to him right now - nothing positive - did that aid you in any way at all??

 

What you should be doing is observing him, not mirroring him - mirroring is for when you are attracted to a woman.

Observe him and figure what you can add to your own personality - take it gently or you will feel seriously awkward.

 

But - get reading - what books have you got on order or what have you had delivered?

I can't help but suspect the answer is none - please surprise me!!

 

My questioning of your intelligence and logic stems from you only appear (from what you say) to do the same thing over and over and over and over and over.....

 

 

 

Ok fine I took this response, hit Tinder and found a match which based on the pictures at least was attractive to me.

 

 

Decided from the outset to do thing differently this time. Later afternoon date, drinks ok but I was ready for the inevitable. Which on this occasion was not a problem, I ordered a chocolate milkshake she had two cocktails.

 

 

Thing was this time I found someone every bit as awkward as me in some ways, I did get her to laugh quite a bit but sadly I have no idea when the pictures were actually taken but what met me and what was seen in the pictures was quite different. Used much more open body language, practiced a few different resting faces and tried my best to make something of this.

 

 

As had been suggested I tried to connect with her despite the fact the conversation was mainly me leading and dry in places and had a few awkward silences at the beginning. It was an ok enough date, she isn't really what I want.

 

 

Nor am I what she wants apparently "I don't think we are going to have another date but would you be keen on fun".

 

 

Ok I decided to explore this idea so I said yes. "There are a number of conditions though, you can only massage me". I promise you I didn't make this up. After that I put an end to the idea.

 

 

Ultimately she isn't what I want, she has apparently got trust issues and while she is ok, she is a bit ordinary for me in personality, sleeps a lot, doesn't do many outdoor activities, doesn't want kids (plus point), teaches kids (negative point), generally quite awkward, (I actually wasn't awkward in this occasion). Admitted she had only been with one guy before.

 

 

Nice person but not for me, more so because she lives in a bubble of sorts, no interest in world affairs at all, no opinion of the industry in which she works. Also didn't like her voice.

 

 

Positives: I wasn't awkward, I think I did better on the body language side of things mixed it up a bit (been reading website, I honestly rarely get time to read books), found enough confidence to try and make the whole thing work.

[Imajerk17]

I salute you for trying some things differently ZA!

 

Meanwhile, this is a tip you can take for some other time, when it comes to getting physical for the first time with a woman:

 

Many MANY times women will say stuff that your date just did when she said you could only massage her (and of course you know you must ALWAYS respect your date's wishes and not push any further then she is comfortable with). And it actually makes sense. On the one hand, she has physical needs too. On the other hand, she isn't sure yet how far she wants to go and she doesn't want to lead you on, she is nervous about getting physical with a guy she just met, ect. Thing is though, very often once you do start getting physical, she gets caught up in the moment, and so often sex will end up happening anyway.

 

Anyway, a great response to 'you can only masssage me' would be 'that is fine but you better massage me as well'. You'd be acknowledging and respecting her boundaries while acknowledging that the giving-receiving has to be both ways. And that is definitely a win....

Edited February 17, 2018 by Imajerk17

[ZA Dater]

I salute you for trying some things differently ZA!

 

Meanwhile, this is a tip you can take for some other time, when it comes to getting physical for the first time with a woman:

 

Many MANY times women will say stuff that your date just did when she said you could only massage her (and of course you know you must ALWAYS respect your date's wishes and not push any further then she is comfortable with). And it actually makes sense. On the one hand, she has physical needs too. On the other hand, she isn't sure yet how far she wants to go and she doesn't want to lead you on, she is nervous about getting physical with a guy she just met, ect. Thing is though, very often once you do start getting physical, she gets caught up in the moment, and so often sex will end up happening anyway.

 

Anyway, a great response to 'you can only masssage me' would be 'that is fine but you better massage me as well'. You'd be acknowledging and respecting her boundaries while acknowledging that the giving-receiving has to be both ways. And that is definitely a win....

 

 

 

Exactly what I said but she refused. It was to be all about her.

 

 

Besides this evening I think the answer I was looking for might have just arrived.

[GemmaUK]

That's great that you didn't feel awkward!

 

 

Besides this evening I think the answer I was looking for might have just arrived.

 

Care to share?

[GemmaUK]

Apologies here, not attempting to de-rail the thread and ZA, you may find some of this interesting too,, certainly Paul Ekman's website.

Hey Gemma,

 

I have seen this show before and I never knew it was based on someone’s work. I agree, the show’s a great watch. My local library has a lot of books on the subject so when I find a good one I’ll let you know!

 

Paul Ekman's home website is a good place to take a look. There's a lot of videos on there.

I've looked at reviews of some of his books and much as they sound good they can be a hard technical read from the sound of it.

With Lie to Me I would rewind to capture expressions to see if I could see something and recognise it before the conclusion came out. I do the same too with films and drama shows. A good director will give big clues via how he directs.

Reality TV can also be a fun way to learn and recognise too.

 

Another book that's a good read though is Joe Navarro 'What EveryBody is saying' Really good book and fun to read so if that is in your library it's a must!

[ZA Dater]

That's great that you didn't feel awkward!

 

 

 

 

Care to share?

 

 

 

Well I think I have a better idea of how to use some body language, will keep reading and just try things, nothing to loose really, not looking for anything specific either.

 

 

Still digesting the odd date yesterday. On this occasion it was the date who was more awkward than me which was a change...didn't quite connect but I did manage to get her to laugh. The main difference is I went there with an objective to be calm and project some confidence.

 

 

There was something I did a while back it was to get involved with a charity and I found that to be very rewarding. I think I am going to try find time to do that again, albeit in the more technical financial way that is my strongpoint. I have always liked helping others in any small way I can.

[GemmaUK]

All sounds good, you appear to have seen pretty striking differences in interactions since learning some body language, don't forget to be observant and learn to read it as well as use it.

 

Any different social setting is a prime place to get practice too.

[ZA Dater]

All sounds good, you appear to have seen pretty striking differences in interactions since learning some body language, don't forget to be observant and learn to read it as well as use it.

 

Any different social setting is a prime place to get practice too.

 

 

 

Its very, very difficult and I need to be aware of my own body language all of the time as well as trying to read others, for example this date had her arms crossed but this was mitigated by how easy it was to get her to laugh. Ok she isn't for me but as some practice it wasn't a bad experience.

 

 

I still think I need to try get the body language to work with a more spontaneous way of doing thing as opposed to over thinking something, which is difficult not to do.

[ZA Dater]

The thing I am realising is the more I read about body language is that you need to think about it but its actually not that hard and I look at it that maybe I can use it to convey something of sorts.

 

 

Going to practice like mad because trying to set something up in May, if I was betting it would be throwing everything into the pot, betting big and I am either going to loose big or win big, nothing in between.

 

 

I am going to need every bit of body language and courage to have a decent enough try at this. A very ill advised idea but if I don't try this I wont ever know.

[GemmaUK]

The thing I am realising is the more I read about body language is that you need to think about it but its actually not that hard and I look at it that maybe I can use it to convey something of sorts.

 

 

Going to practice like mad because trying to set something up in May, if I was betting it would be throwing everything into the pot, betting big and I am either going to loose big or win big, nothing in between.

 

 

I am going to need every bit of body language and courage to have a decent enough try at this. A very ill advised idea but if I don't try this I wont ever know.

 

It' s not that difficult but it takes practice and thought plus empathy and consideration for others too.

 

It can be practised with anybody, anywhere, male, female, young or old. Results will always vary but the more you practice, read people and be considerate (they might be having a bad day) the more you will learn.

 

I hope that you've found a good online source of info and are not just picking up and reading the same basics from different sites though. This is why reading books on the subject is better as they go into more detail and don't just go over the same things.

 

May for a big event or situation might be a bit too soon to become adept so remember this is a life skill and a learning curve.

[ZA Dater]

It' s not that difficult but it takes practice and thought plus empathy and consideration for others too.

 

It can be practised with anybody, anywhere, male, female, young or old. Results will always vary but the more you practice, read people and be considerate (they might be having a bad day) the more you will learn.

 

I hope that you've found a good online source of info and are not just picking up and reading the same basics from different sites though. This is why reading books on the subject is better as they go into more detail and don't just go over the same things.

 

May for a big event or situation might be a bit too soon to become adept so remember this is a life skill and a learning curve.

 

 

 

The value I am learning of this is you can say things with body language perhaps more effectively than if you used words so I could use body language to portray confidence and a more relaxed persona.

 

 

What I am trying to do each day is try to read the body language of others and try to interact in a different way to see the different responses I get, which sounds quite silly when put into words.

 

 

As for May, if I can get everything to add I am going to play a high stakes game, ultimately if I arrive at a dry lake I can sort of accept that because I had the lush tree lined path to walk down before arriving at the dry lake. I'll give this a try and see how it works out or not but either way I rather know the answer to this question than wonder what the answer is. Of course even if it does work out there might be quite a lot of fallout.

 

 

When I have some free time I read and watch the odd youtube video, which is actually more interesting than I thought it would be.

 

 

In short I am trying and each day I am trying to move past being inherently shy.

[GemmaUK]

What I am trying to do each day is try to read the body language of others and try to interact in a different way to see the different responses I get, which sounds quite silly when put into words.

 

This is not silly at all - I do this every single day with all different people! Not only that but because I totally understand what you mean I know you really are trying this out!! Whoop!!

 

OK, I like your plan - I get it.

I am so pleased that you just tried it a couple of times and found something different in it. Something you seem very keen to learn as I was.

 

If you become disinterested and decide to go for a book instead try the one I suggested to Filter Coffee by Joe Navarro titled 'What Every BODY is Saying'. I think you might enjoy the book, he is an ex FBI agent. I thought it was all going to be about criminals and their behaviour - there is some of that but it's an all round book.

Sorry to keep suggesting books too but - they bring it all together and expand a lot more than anything I have seen online.

Although Paul Ekman's home site is a good one.

Easy practise at reading peop[le - watch films and drama shows - pause, rewind, watch expressions - I do this a lot because I enjoy trying to figure the story out myself. A good director will display clues - often in the face or movements.

 

Please post about some interactions - whether dating or not - I would love to hear about the good and the bad.

We are having a bit of a trauma at work just now with a few difficult people all in the same team - one is a 'I know it all now' apprentice, age 19 (woman A) one is 60 and does not like change (woman B) , one is mid forties (woman C) and is OK to a point but asks too many scary future and forward questions for woman B which leads woman B to totally panic. Woman A has a tendency then to jump in with a solution which is not the greatest and scares both B and C.

Woman C often will break down in tears when she doesn't understand something.

There's 3 of us trying to manage and help but not interfere but it's one whole load of body language, facial expressions and the verbal to work our way around.

It will all work out but it is interesting to watch.

It's frustrating and fun at the same time.

 

You mentioned confidence... you never say you are confident but you did and that just made my day ZA x

[ZA Dater]

This is not silly at all - I do this every single day with all different people! Not only that but because I totally understand what you mean I know you really are trying this out!! Whoop!!

 

OK, I like your plan - I get it.

I am so pleased that you just tried it a couple of times and found something different in it. Something you seem very keen to learn as I was.

 

If you become disinterested and decide to go for a book instead try the one I suggested to Filter Coffee by Joe Navarro titled 'What Every BODY is Saying'. I think you might enjoy the book, he is an ex FBI agent. I thought it was all going to be about criminals and their behaviour - there is some of that but it's an all round book.

Sorry to keep suggesting books too but - they bring it all together and expand a lot more than anything I have seen online.

Although Paul Ekman's home site is a good one.

Easy practise at reading peop[le - watch films and drama shows - pause, rewind, watch expressions - I do this a lot because I enjoy trying to figure the story out myself. A good director will display clues - often in the face or movements.

 

Please post about some interactions - whether dating or not - I would love to hear about the good and the bad.

We are having a bit of a trauma at work just now with a few difficult people all in the same team - one is a 'I know it all now' apprentice, age 19 (woman A) one is 60 and does not like change (woman B) , one is mid forties (woman C) and is OK to a point but asks too many scary future and forward questions for woman B which leads woman B to totally panic. Woman A has a tendency then to jump in with a solution which is not the greatest and scares both B and C.

Woman C often will break down in tears when she doesn't understand something.

There's 3 of us trying to manage and help but not interfere but it's one whole load of body language, facial expressions and the verbal to work our way around.

It will all work out but it is interesting to watch.

It's frustrating and fun at the same time.

 

You mentioned confidence... you never say you are confident but you did and that just made my day ZA x

 

 

 

I have mainly been trying out this new approach in business meetings which has raised eyebrows a bit but seems to be reasonably effective when dealing with more should we say "difficult" people.

 

 

Your office sounds like mine....I have learnt to walk that delicate line and as the most gossiped about person I just merely tell person A something person B already knows but A doesn't know this she run off to tell B and B already knows...different context but yes.

 

 

One of the things I didn't expect from this was a confidence boost. I think using different body language and changing my mind set has allowed me to do "I am actually ok, show people that" versus what I did before was to shut myself off a bit and only offer up what I thought people wanted.

 

 

I am going to try find that book, thanks for the tip! Sounds like an interesting read.

 

 

In some respects the confidence I have now I try to carry forward to each day and that tends to work quite well but the BIGGEST thing with me is I like a challenge and the extra confidence has helped the somewhat bleak attitude I had in respect of one particular challenge. I sat down the other day and spent 10 minutes writing down the things I wanted most in life and I am happy not to get some of them if I feel I have done everything I can possibly do in the pursuit of them.

 

 

For months I have been setting wheels in motion and this body language post made me realise a few things, opened my eyes to actually SEE things which I hadn't before.

 

 

When people start to want to spend more time with you its positive, when they are relaxed around, share their lives with you and take an interest in yours. Then you start to play with words, play with innuendo (clean sort), play with ideas and now I can add body language to this.

 

 

Its so very useful and interesting, what ends up happening I don't know but I have decided to take down a few of my more rigid beliefs for this particular challenge and I'll take a big drink of courage. In a sense the challenges barriers have also been brought down, in the past certain things were no go, now I am allowed there.

[GemmaUK]

I saw the lovely mail you sent me but missed this.

 

Made my day again and rendered me somewhat speechless!

 

I loved reading this ZA!

 

The part about confidence has knocked me sideways and that is amazing news!!!

You're 10%& right that it does help but that was an aspect I had forgotten about in a heck of a lot of ways to be perfectly honest with you.

 

You can do and say anything (within reason, of course) because you can gauge how a person feels about it and once you know that things change instantly.

 

You just made my day again *grins* I wish I could click 'like' more than once!