How to be a Good Wife

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

But I can't resist thinking that it's not what really would make a man 100% happy. I think every man wants his wife to be sexy. Sexy is when she has some career or hobbies or both, friends she appreciates and who appreciate her, men who chase after her; when she looks pretty and takes care of herself, shows interest in intellectual development (art, culture, books, etc.)...

 

Men fall in love with women when they present their girl's side and fall out of love when they become housewives. Spotless house, fantastic meals, full dedication to the kids, and servile behavior are not the things that make our spouses stay in love forever. Besides, the day has only 24 hours.

 

In my opinion, the best marriage is where you create balance between these two parts. Life in a marriage has to be in order, but we should also strive to retain the initial interest of our spouse and stay independent and free-spirited. I think both parties will be happier with this approach.

 

I agree with RP on this. The 1950's style housewife had alot going for her in that she made a huge effort to prioritize her partner's needs.

 

But she was pretty boring all things considered. Infidelity ran rampant in those days. Look at the movies of the period as an example of the social acceptability of men looking for excitement outside the home.

 

Worse yet, she was pretty much defenseless in terms of protecting her family. If she was intolerant of a wandering husband or a husband who treated her poorly, she could certainly divorce him, but what could she do after that? She had very meager opportunities in the job market. Even today, it's difficult for women to make enough to support a family.

 

Which brings us to another point. These days, for many families, it's taking TWO incomes to get by. Lord knows, we see PLENTY of threads from disgruntled husband's complaining about their wife not working.

 

Unfortunately, the SAHM is not getting the respect she deserves in our culture. And when the kids get a little bigger, and she can get back out into the job market.....often, she still has the primary responsibility of running the household and managing the kids. She's limited in the amount of time and the amount of energy that she can commit to a real career. She's lost YEARS of career growth while taking the time to be with her babies.

 

As parents, we dare not allow our daughter's to leave our homes without the skills they need to someday be a SuperMom if called upon. There aren't any guarantees for her that the man she chooses won't completely flake out on her someday. You don't have to read very far to see examples of THAT here at LS either.

 

As far as women's liberation is concerned....it hasn't only changed the philosophy of modern day women, but men as well. Too many believe it's entirely possible for a woman to work, raise kids, run a household, and still prioritize him sexually above all that. It's impossible. Yet so many seem to expect it.

 

I told my husband recently, that HE gets to be the woman in our next life! Weirdly enough, he said "No Frickin' Way!!!"

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Worse yet, she was pretty much defenseless in terms of protecting her family. If she was intolerant of a wandering husband or a husband who treated her poorly, she could certainly divorce him, but what could she do after that? She had very meager opportunities in the job market. Even today, it's difficult for women to make enough to support a family.

 

Exactly. Not only that she had a boring life and thus wasn't enough challenge for her husband, but he was also completely certain that she won't leave him, because she was incapable to live on her own.

[lindya]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Too many believe it's entirely possible for a woman to work, raise kids, run a household, and still prioritize him sexually above all that. It's impossible. Yet so many seem to expect it.

 

Why am I not surprised that the basic message of that 1950s article met with a fair bit of approval?

 

Summary of my Loveshack-learning so far. A woman should combine the relationship skills of the 1950s stay-at-home wife with the material benefits that a modern, career-driven woman can provide. She should cultivate an air of independence, whilst ensuring that her partner's ego needs and his desire to feel like a good provider are not neglected. She will improve her sexual technique by following his suggestion that she adopt a pro-porn feminist outlook and watch gonzo porn with him. Don't lose that air of appealing innocence that men like, though! Develop tolerance and a sense of humour with regard to your partner's penchant for staring at 20 year old girls in the street. Even better, invite them into the marital bed as a "just because" present for him.

 

Laugh at his jokes - especially if you're the regular butt of them. Women don't generally have a sense of humour, so he'll appreciate it if you show one. Curse his mother and soothe his poor brow with a kiss and a damp cloth whenever he rants about how hateful women are. You'll be amazed by how much a bit of energetic arse-licking on your part will help to relieve him of some of his more misogynistic notions. Temporarily, at least.

 

Finally ladies...do avoid making any sarcastic comments or jokes about men in order to avoid being branded a feminazi bitch. It's also vital to eliminate any 1950s behaviour that might smack of insecurity or co-dependence. You'll want to make a block booking of sessions with a counsellor to identify whether you're a co-dependent or suffer from any symptoms of a borderline personality disorder that might prevent you from being a fit and able partner.

 

I only wish this perfect Loveshack Chick could get it together with the Stuck In Nice Guy zone fellow that another poster mentioned earlier this week.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I was looking at that list and decided to see what the flip side of each 'point' was. If a woman or man were to do the very opposite of everything in that list, no one in his/her right mind would want to stay married under those circumstances - or if they did, they'd either be cheating on each other or wanting to. What is ironic is that the 'flip side' to all those points pretty much describe marriages of people I know.

 

While I don't agree with a lot of the 'sacrificing' or 'martyr' or 'emotionally masochistic' stuff - it is the considerate stuff that I do agree with. The stuff of comfort, security and mutual happiness. The whole 'woman providing all the creature comforts' as a matter of 'her place' is outdated - but I like the idea of making a good deal of the stuff on that list something that both partners do for each other, not because they are 'supposed' to but because they genuinely want to do nice and considerate things for each other. Basic stuff...

 

No one likes walking into a dirty house. Take turns cleaning! No one likes endless nights of takeout, pizza or fastfood. Take turns cooking dinner! Be happy to see each other at the end of a workday. Have quiet time for each other, where you listen to each other and get comfy together on the sofa. Let 'providing comfort' be a mutual thing. No one likes to be nagged or bitched at as soon as they walk in from work. When you see each other, don't let 'problems' be the first thing you talk about. When you were courting each other, you didn't do it in dirty sweats and unshowered for three days, with stinky breath and stale armpits - there's a time for that, but it shouldn't be all the time. Take care of yourself, for each other - dress up some occasionally for each other - or at the very least let your clothes be clean.

 

I liked Woggle's point he made - treat your spouse like you want to be treated. Don't ever feel that you are 'entitled' to certain treatment if you don't provide that treatment yourself.

[Woggle]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

I was looking at that list and decided to see what the flip side of each 'point' was. If a woman or man were to do the very opposite of everything in that list, no one in his/her right mind would want to stay married under those circumstances - or if they did, they'd either be cheating on each other or wanting to. What is ironic is that the 'flip side' to all those points pretty much describe marriages of people I know.

 

While I don't agree with a lot of the 'sacrificing' or 'martyr' or 'emotionally masochistic' stuff - it is the considerate stuff that I do agree with. The stuff of comfort, security and mutual happiness. The whole 'woman providing all the creature comforts' as a matter of 'her place' is outdated - but I like the idea of making a good deal of the stuff on that list something that both partners do for each other, not because they are 'supposed' to but because they genuinely want to do nice and considerate things for each other. Basic stuff...

 

No one likes walking into a dirty house. Take turns cleaning! No one likes endless nights of takeout, pizza or fastfood. Take turns cooking dinner! Be happy to see each other at the end of a workday. Have quiet time for each other, where you listen to each other and get comfy together on the sofa. Let 'providing comfort' be a mutual thing. No one likes to be nagged or bitched at as soon as they walk in from work. When you see each other, don't let 'problems' be the first thing you talk about. When you were courting each other, you didn't do it in dirty sweats and unshowered for three days, with stinky breath and stale armpits - there's a time for that, but it shouldn't be all the time. Take care of yourself, for each other - dress up some occasionally for each other - or at the very least let your clothes be clean.

 

I liked Woggle's point he made - treat your spouse like you want to be treated. Don't ever feel that you are 'entitled' to certain treatment if you don't provide that treatment yourself.

 

See you get it and your friends who think you are a doormat will wonder why they can't have a sucessful relationship with a man.

[Woggle]

Also nobody is perfect but some common decency should come into play.

[lindya]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

Don't ever feel that you are 'entitled' to certain treatment if you don't provide that treatment yourself.

 

And appreciate the efforts your partner makes towards being the best partner they can be. None of us are perfect, and one slip up shouldn't automatically cancel out 100 genuine expressions of love.

 

I agree that the message about making an effort to give your partner a pleasant life is a good one. What worries me is that there are a lot of people out there who do make those sorts of efforts on a very regular basis....but don't get - and have learned to never expect - those efforts reciprocated. An updated article would, hopefully, add some advice as to how to make this nurturing approach flow in both directions.

[Woggle]

Originally posted by lindya

And appreciate the efforts your partner makes towards being the best partner they can be. None of us are perfect, and one slip up shouldn't automatically cancel out 100 genuine expressions of love.

 

I agree that the message about making an effort to give your partner a pleasant life is a good one. What worries me is that there are a lot of people out there who do make those sorts of efforts on a very regular basis....but don't get - and have learned to never expect - those efforts reciprocated. An updated article would, hopefully, add some advice as to how to make this nurturing approach flow in both directions.

 

I think my short but profound advice about treating each other the way you would like to be treated is good. Also realize that both parties are in it together and not in competition. Marriage should not be a power struggle and both spouses need to work together to make it work. It has nothing to do with what gender is supposed to do what.

[lindya]

Originally posted by Woggle

I think my short but profound advice about treating each other the way you would like to be treated is good. Also realize that both parties are in it together and not in competition. Marriage should not be a power struggle and both spouses need to work together to make it work. It has nothing to do with what gender is supposed to do what.

 

So presumably your ideal woman would be someone who operates from the premise that most men are bad, and you will be prepared to tolerate endless expressions of this view whilst putting in the necessary effort to convince her that you're one of the few "good men" around?

 

After all, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[RecordProducer]

The article doesn't have much to do with treatment. Actually nobody is hot for servile behavior. We want authoritative, independent, strong people to like us. No one wants to be liked by spineless people. You can treat your spouse like a prince(cess) without cooking, cleaning, and licking their ass.

 

The home chores don't make the marriage work, they simply make life easier and better organized as we can't live in a mess and give junk food to our children or ignore our daily responsibilities. And life is a component of marriage. Just like marriage is a component of life. We can't be happy in our marriage if we're not satisfied with our lives generally and vice versa.

 

Everybody wants to be around people who can enjoy themselves and have fun. Why did you fall in love with your SO? Most likely because of 3 reasons:

1. You had a lot of fun together;

2. You admired their personality;

3. You had great sex and a lot in common.

 

These reasons should remain valid in marriage too. When people become bored, when they don't enjoy doing stuff together anymore, when the sex becomes non-exciting, and most of all when we get disappointed in our partner's personality, the love vanishes.

 

It's also very important how people deal with problems, if they are able to compromise and find solutions from which the whole family benefits, if they are carefree in financial and health terms, and if they are happy with their lives apart from the marriage.

 

So that article is more or less bullsh*t if you ask me.

[SixthSt.Girl]

Originally posted by Woggle

And women do deserve that treatment? There are many articles telling men how to be a perfect husband. Juts watch Oprah or any talk show and they try to whip men into submission. Honestly I could care less who does what chores. I don't believe that women should do all the housework but she damn well better treat me with the same respect she demands.

 

No, but it's not like they'll get it. Men seem much less concerned with keeping their wives happy as opposed to women trying to keep their husbands happy. Women worry about men cheating and keeping them satisfied so they won't cheat (which will rarely work - if the man wants to go there, he will), therefore write and talk about it openly, as evidenced by these boards - men just don't seem to care. Maybe they do, but don't know how to show it. I majored in communications, and I know that women are much more concerned than men about these marital issues. Men are not as concerned about things such as a harmonious home - it's just not in their biological makeup. Though, they should learn to adapt. Problem is, they don't have to because there will likely always be a ready and willing woman there to take his bs. Many women would stay with an abusive and controlling freak than risk being alone. That's not all, and definitely not me.

 

I recently broke up with my bf because of his selfishness. He was all concerned about me possibly being pregnant - how will I afford child support, I have to pay my mortgage, I don't have the time - me, me, me. Funny, my first thoughts were of the CHILD. Not to say there aren't selfish women, but women have the instincts to nurture and care for the ones they love - men often take advantage of that. Likes someone said in a job-related thread, women make better doormats.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by SixthSt.Girl

Men seem much less concerned with keeping their wives happy as opposed to women trying to keep their husbands happy. Women worry about men cheating and keeping them satisfied so they won't cheat (which will rarely work - if the man wants to go there, he will), therefore write and talk about it openly, as evidenced by these boards - men just don't seem to care. Maybe they do, but don't know how to show it.

 

The main reason why my ex-husband left me was because I was unhappy with him. I've talked to many men about their ex-wives and they all seemed very frustrated because their wives were not happy. No man will ever leave a happy wife! I guarantee that. Women become depressed, tired, nagging, and screw up things. Men screw up things by doing things that their wives don't like. And although they are usually right, men by nature like to be independent and not inhibited by their wives about their occupations, hobbies, money, friends, etc.

 

But they also love to please their women. And the most obvious example is in sex. The worst you can do to a man is to show him that he doesn't make you happy. The legendary sentence after sex is "you made me so happy." They care about our orgasms more than their own. They love to be heroes. Women should take advantage of that. But instead they always complain and kill the love. The first reason to run away from a wife is "she doesn't understand me, she is never happy with me."

 

Finally as long as women pump their rights and not try to read the instructions "how to operate a man in 10 steps" marriages won't work.

The greatest problem is that incompatible people get together and they can't function right no matter what they do. But the second biggest problem lies in the fact that women can't use their strengths to make the marriage work. Wives benefit from happy husbands just like husbands benefit from happy wives. If you show your partner that you're not selfish (without losing dignity and self-respect as in the article Kat posted), your partner will appreciate it and return the "favor."

 

Be warm, kind, and passionate about your man without being clingy, have your own life, show respect and he will never walk away. It's as simple as that. Women on the other hand are much more demanding.

[SixthSt.Girl]

"Finally ladies...do avoid making any sarcastic comments or jokes about men in order to avoid being branded a feminazi bitch."

 

It's double standards like this that make me so mad. Women who complain about men are feminazi bitches, yet when men complain, it's being honest. So sad to hear this term coming from a woman. Women who personally attack other women do not make it any easier to be a woman. Well, the truth sometimes hurts, and if you don't want to hear it, you can choose to ignore it. Personal attacks are just so low and immature...

[lindya]

Originally posted by SixthSt.Girl

"Finally ladies...do avoid making any sarcastic comments or jokes about men in order to avoid being branded a feminazi bitch."

 

It's double standards like this that make me so mad. Women who complain about men are feminazi bitches, yet when men complain, it's being honest. So sad to hear this term coming from a woman.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/irony

[SixthSt.Girl]

"Be warm, kind, and passionate about your man without being clingy, have your own life, show respect and he will never walk away. It's as simple as that. Women on the other hand are much more demanding."

 

 

I kinda don't understand that. There is no way to tell if a man, or woman for that matter, will stay or walk away. People in seemingly happy relationships can leave, and do all the time. There's nothing you can do or say to change someone's feelings, for you or for anyone else. Are you saying that being demanding will cause your man to leave? What is "demanding" - by saying women "are much more demanding," do you, as a woman, include yourself in that grouping?

[Woggle]

Originally posted by lindya

So presumably your ideal woman would be someone who operates from the premise that most men are bad, and you will be prepared to tolerate endless expressions of this view whilst putting in the necessary effort to convince her that you're one of the few "good men" around?

 

After all, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

 

How the hell did you get that from that post? You are eally readings that are not there.

[Woggle]

Originally posted by SixthSt.Girl

"Finally ladies...do avoid making any sarcastic comments or jokes about men in order to avoid being branded a feminazi bitch."

 

It's double standards like this that make me so mad. Women who complain about men are feminazi bitches, yet when men complain, it's being honest. So sad to hear this term coming from a woman. Women who personally attack other women do not make it any easier to be a woman. Well, the truth sometimes hurts, and if you don't want to hear it, you can choose to ignore it. Personal attacks are just so low and immature...

 

Everywhere you go women complain about men over and over again. That is all I see. Turn on tv and all you see is how men are selfish, stupid and all these horrible things. I am one of the few men with enough balls to women the truth about themselves. You do not want to go here with me. I eat feminazis for lunch.

[Woggle]

Originally posted by SixthSt.Girl

No, but it's not like they'll get it. Men seem much less concerned with keeping their wives happy as opposed to women trying to keep their husbands happy. Women worry about men cheating and keeping them satisfied so they won't cheat (which will rarely work - if the man wants to go there, he will), therefore write and talk about it openly, as evidenced by these boards - men just don't seem to care. Maybe they do, but don't know how to show it. I majored in communications, and I know that women are much more concerned than men about these marital issues. Men are not as concerned about things such as a harmonious home - it's just not in their biological makeup. Though, they should learn to adapt. Problem is, they don't have to because there will likely always be a ready and willing woman there to take his bs. Many women would stay with an abusive and controlling freak than risk being alone. That's not all, and definitely not me.

 

I recently broke up with my bf because of his selfishness. He was all concerned about me possibly being pregnant - how will I afford child support, I have to pay my mortgage, I don't have the time - me, me, me. Funny, my first thoughts were of the CHILD. Not to say there aren't selfish women, but women have the instincts to nurture and care for the ones they love - men often take advantage of that. Likes someone said in a job-related thread, women make better doormats.

 

I did everything in my power to make my ex-wife happy and she still cheated. Now you probably think I deserved it but I worked to make her happy. It sounds like you did your bf a huge favor by breaking up with him. He can do much better. You sound like a barrel of fun.

[Woggle]

Originally posted by SixthSt.Girl

If you would like to insult me, why don't you just be direct, instead of going on the sly about it? For the record, I've never personally attacked anyone on here - unless the "abusive freak" comment got a little too close to home, which wasn't my intent as I know no one, or no one's husbands, on this board. However, I think your intent was to maliciously attack others on this board, and unfairly so - even as a general comment, that's just really not cool. "Feminazi beyatch" is just something that's in a lot of people's minds, created by those who want to put women back in time. I guess you're one of those women that's cool with that? Well, whatever, I'm not wasting my time...

 

No feminazi is a term created by people sick of feminazis. You sounds like some women's studies major from a spoiled white girl life whining about how opressed you are. Women like you are a dime a dozen.

[SixthSt.Girl]

Originally posted by Woggle

I did everything in my power to make my ex-wife happy and she still cheated. Now you probably think I deserved it but I worked to make her happy. It sounds like you did your bf a huge favor by breaking up with him. He can do much better. You sound like a barrel of fun.

 

It sounds like you're very bitter toward women because of your wife dumping you. Also, I did myself a huge favor getting rid of my bf - he was a jerk - and I can do so much better. Men like you both are a dime a dozen. Women will keep on rejecting you until you get smart and learn how to respect women. Many men, like yourself, prefer women who aren't smart to your ways. You try to keep women down because you feel that's the only way they'll put up with you - the feminazi comment is just proof of what you're about. I love men, and men love me, but I'm choosy about them. If that makes me a feminist, then ok. No more "bad boys" for me. Sorry about your wife, but honestly, you should try to understand why she preferred another man over you...

[lindya]

Originally posted by Woggle

How the hell did you get that from that post? You are eally readings that are not there.

 

I read it within the context of the opinions you've expressed many times on this board. You said

 

I think my short but profound advice about treating each other the way you would like to be treated is good.

 

Let's remember that you've often expressed the view that most women are in some way "bad" and that you're proud to be a misogynist (or masculinazi, if you prefer). For you to decide that a woman is "not bad" she has to somehow work to earn this:

 

Many of the women who have earned my respct and escaped my misogyny have been black women.

 

To ensure that your own behaviour is consistent with your advice about partners treating eachother the way they themselves would like to be treated, you probably have two options.

 

1. Find yourself a woman who has similar thoughts and values to your own. The female counterpart to you. At the moment, this would be someone who generally hates men, and will require some convincing that you do not deserve her hatred. Difficult as the relationship might be, you will both be in the same boat and might therefore know instinctively what it is that the other person needs in order to stop hating and start learning how to trust.

 

Obviously, this could all go horribly wrong very easily. You might not want to go into a relationship with someone who's going to give you the message that she hates most men and you'll have your work cut out if you want to escape her hatred. If so, my advice would be to skip option 1 and go with....

 

2. Try to let go of the thinking that "all women are bad". That way, you're far more likely to be able - without even having to think hard about it - to treat a future partner in the way that you yourself would like to be treated.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Innitironic

Jay Fullmer, 38, yesterday became the first American to get to grips with the concept of irony.

 

"It was weird" Fullmer said. "I was in London and like, talking to this guy and it was raining and he pulled a face and said, "Great weather eh?" and I thought - "Wait a minute, no way is it great weather".

 

Fullmer then realised that the other man's 'mistake' was in fact deliberate.

 

Fullmer, who is 39 next month and married with two children, aged 8 and 3, plans to use irony himself in future.

 

"I'm, like, using it all the time" he said. "Last weekend I was grilling steaks, and I burned them, and I said "Hey, great weather."

 

 

 

:lmao: :lmao:

 

Now all we need is for someone to post us a blistering commentary on how steaks have NOTHING to do with the weather.

 

That would, quite frankly, make my day.

[Woggle]

Originally posted by lindya

I read it within the context of the opinions you've expressed many times on this board. You said

 

 

 

Let's remember that you've often expressed the view that most women are in some way "bad" and that you're proud to be a misogynist (or masculinazi, if you prefer). For you to decide that a woman is "not bad" she has to somehow work to earn this:

 

 

 

To ensure that your own behaviour is consistent with your advice about partners treating eachother the way they themselves would like to be treated, you probably have two options.

 

1. Find yourself a woman who has similar thoughts and values to your own. The female counterpart to you. At the moment, this would be someone who generally hates men, and will require some convincing that you do not deserve her hatred. Difficult as the relationship might be, you will both be in the same boat and might therefore know instinctively what it is that the other person needs in order to stop hating and start learning how to trust.

 

Obviously, this could all go horribly wrong very easily. You might not want to go into a relationship with someone who's going to give you the message that she hates most men and you'll have your work cut out if you want to escape her hatred. If so, my advice would be to skip option 1 and go with....

 

2. Try to let go of the thinking that "all women are bad". That way, you're far more likely to be able - without even having to think hard about it - to treat a future partner in the way that you yourself would like to be treated.

 

I am dating a woman right now who in no way hates men. In fact she understands where I come from and that impressed me.

[Woggle]

It sounds like you're very bitter toward women because of your wife dumping you. Also, I did myself a huge favor getting rid of my bf - he was a jerk - and I can do so much better. Men like you both are a dime a dozen. Women will keep on rejecting you until you get smart and learn how to respect women. Many men, like yourself, prefer women who aren't smart to your ways. You try to keep women down because you feel that's the only way they'll put up with you - the feminazi comment is just proof of what you're about. I love men, and men love me, but I'm choosy about them. If that makes me a feminist, then ok. No more "bad boys" for me. Sorry about your wife, but honestly, you should try to understand why she preferred another man over you...

 

Actually she is the one that keeps begging me to take her back. She said that she didn't actually think I was going to divorce her because of it but I did and I refuse to take her back. She is the loser not me. I am also dating a woman right now who is brilliant. She could teach me a few things and I am brilliant myself. 2 genuises in love and it is great. I am no way trying to keep her down. I love her passion and her spirit and would never want to kill it. Trust me I am not the type of man you think I am but many on these boards make that mistake so I forgive you.

[youngconfusedme]

that e-mail does more damage than good... I read it right before I got married and thought I agree that is what makes you a good wife... and then when I couldn't accomplish it and realized that it didn't fufill me I felt like I was a failure and a bad wife.

 

Now I am under the impression that if you both work 40+ hrs a week and there are no children then one cannot expect the other to do all the work in the house it needs to be shared... I am not the cook, maid, gardner or butler... I don't expect him to be either...

 

I tell my H that I don't expect him to do anything that I would not expect of myself and if it is something I don't want to do and he doesn't want to do then we need to hire someone else to do it... but my H doesn't seem to get it and feels as though I still need to do the cooking, cleaning, laundry, to be partners. It is a real point of contiention w/ us.

 

I know you'll probably read my previous post... but this is the stuff that has brought us to the place that I am at now.