Encouragement

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I just wanted to post something that I was thinking about today hoping it can encourage others. For any newcomers, I was an OW in a LTA with a MM, and my journey has been chronicled here from the first time I firmly decided to go NC. This forum was an incredible source of support that helped me get through the toughest times, and I learned so very much from others here both through their responses to my posts and their own stories. Also, I will be referring to the MM/MW using masculine pronouns because it is my frame of reference from my own story, but certainly those are interchangeable with feminine pronouns as applicable for others. I recognize that OM have similar experiences as OW. (The parallels between what OW and OM has been enlightening to me--and I especially appreciate those men who have had the courage to be emotionally vulnerable on this forum--thank you for improving my opinion of the male population and the lessons you have taught me!)

 

On to my thoughts from today:

During and just after the A one of the biggest questions everyone seems to face is, "Does/did the MM love/care about me? Was I just being used?" This is certainly one of the biggest questions I struggled with. It kept me in limbo internally between "He's a selfish ass who used me--I hate him." and "He was a misguided soul who was doing his best under the circumstances--I love him!"

 

People, release yourself from this terror and agony! I know it is crazy difficult! It is much easier said than done. I finally came around by realizing that the answer to that question does not matter AT ALL!!! What does matter is the fact that he was not willing to behave in a way that honored me, loved me, valued me He was not willing to do the things that made me feel special and valued/loved/honored. He was thinking about himself 98% of the time. The worst part of this is I let him do it and I made excuses for it. I lowered my standards for him--because I never had been an OW I would think he's not doing xyz because he's limited in his situation (married!). Then, I would think, he's still married because (fill in the blank with excuse du jour), and my personal favorite excuse I'd make for him was that he's scared. Wow! I ended up demanding so little of him, that he gave less and less as time went on. I hate to think of what he must have been thinking in his pea brain about me and my kindness/generosity. I'm sure at least a part of him was thinking, "Damn, this FREE candy tastes pretty good and it is so convenient for me."

 

OW/OM: hear me now! NO, JUST NO! NO MORE, NOT ANOTHER DAY! LOVE YOURSELF MORE THAN YOU LOVE YOUR BELOVED! Take care of yourself, do all kind things you wanted to do for your beloved for YOURSELF. Be especially kind to yourself while you are picking up the pieces of your broken heart and mind. It will feel amazing once you get the hang of it. Know what I love more than xMM now? Veggies! Crazy but true.

 

And yeah, I still have some anger, but it's healthy anger--it's the kind of anger that keeps me out of trouble with xMM. Until that jackass can meet me on my level, reaches out to me with a meaningful heartfelt apology for treating me so poorly, demonstrate he has done the work on himself to no longer be the selfish, rude little pig he was to me, has become a much better person, and obviously have no further contact with his BS, he will not get so much as a "I hope you are doing well" from me! And I have very low expectations that he would accomplish just one of those things let alone all that I require. So life goes on without him! And even if that miracle happened, I'm still not sure I'd want him because he is getting old and is not as financially secure as he should be given his career and age especially after divorce which means he could become a major burden to me in multiple ways, and added to this I know all the UGLY he is capable of!

 

The moment I was finally able to free my energy from 'will he/won't he this, that, and the other,' I began to feel amazing and energetic. My zest for life came back. Now I don't care what he's doing or not doing or what he will or won't do BECAUSE HE'S NOT DOING ANYTHING NOW TO ENHANCE MY LIFE AND NOW IS ALL THAT MATTERS! Live your lives, my friends. Enjoy every second, and never allow someone to rob you of your joy, especially someone who shows up to extract more than they are willing to give.

Edited February 9, 2018 by HadMeOverABarrel

[shypapaya67]

Thank you for this!! Just what I needed to hear

[Chrionaa99]

Just... wow. Do you have any sense of your own position in hurting that spouse?

 

You stated "and obviously have no further contact with his BS"

right after you outlined all the reasons he's not been a good partner to her OR you.

 

I'm sorry if this is too harsh and I really like a lot of what you shared here. It's just that one part that is hanging me up.

[Marc878]

It's funny how clarity comes when you wake up isn't it.

 

You pretty much hit this on the head but most will not listen but I'm glad for you.

 

Now you get to have a life

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Just... wow. Do you have any sense of your own position in hurting that spouse?

 

You stated "and obviously have no further contact with his BS"

right after you outlined all the reasons he's not been a good partner to her OR you.

 

I'm sorry if this is too harsh and I really like a lot of what you shared here. It's just that one part that is hanging me up.

 

Hi Chrionaa,

I get it, but what I am saying is I have both privately and now publicly made the declaration that I will not play second fiddle to his BS or anyone other than God when it comes to my romantic partner of choice. Realize that this post is only about me, my enlightened view of my personal experiences, and not at all about his BS.

 

I don't know, nor will likely ever know, what his spouse experienced or didn't experience. From what I observed from her Facebook, she seemed pretty unaffected especially when he and I were closest. I attribute that to 1) he was probably excellent at duping her (he sure had me going hook, line, and sinker at one period, and even told me stories of manipulating his own father at times for money), and 2) he marginalized and compartmentalized me so much, esp with his "email only" policy that he probably forgot I existed whenever he was playing his hubby role.

 

In any case, I can only go by what I know for certain...and that is he is a master at conflict avoidance and manipulation. He often stonewalled, avoided answering questions, did what he liked without much concern for my preferences or feelings, and so on. That means he very likely treats her the same way, and now that I've been on the miserable receiving end of that treatment, I'm pretty sure he has done all kinds of things to undermine and frustrate her over the course of their marriage. The A was just another facet of his usual MO in how he handles his marriage. That doesn't excuse it, but I believe that woman has put up with boat loads of crap from him from long before he pursued me. He told me he had 2 or 3 A's before me.

 

The most important point though is we each have to be accountable for ourselves and our actions, but that doesn't mean we are responsible for other people's actions or emotions. I won't spend my energy on conjecture about why she tolerates his behavior (although I think she is pretty cozy with the lifestyle he provides her while she needn't do much in return). The fact is she has clearly decided that she is ok with his behavior by the fact that she is where she is. Don't assume she's such a naive woman---she's not! She has decided the benefits she's deriving outweigh the hassles. The day that changes is the day she will leave him!

 

Also, I will not get into a self-destructive cycle of beating myself up over a belief that I wounded her, etc. The absolute fact is I have no idea if my "friendship" (as he called it) had any impact on her whatsoever. For anyone who wants to project their shame onto me, I suggest they do some deep inner work on themselves to understand what in my post triggered that in them. I can not nor will not be responsible for other people's emotions or outcomes for their own choices. I can only be responsible for myself, do the best I can under the circumstances, and become a better version of myself from learning from my and others' mistakes.

 

I can say that I was respectful of not interfering with his job, his adult kids, other family members, or directly asserting myself to his BS. While not ideal to have any involvement with a MM, at least I didn't do anything directly to cause anyone grief.

 

Give the BS credit and don't (falsely) assume she is a weak, wounded, stupid little bird who is a helpless victim. She is not. She is actually quite strong, cunning, has a very bitter tongue, judgmental, and wears the pants (all this discerned from my own first hand knowledge of her). She controls every aspect of xMM's life including where he works (for years he's been wanting to quit and go back out on his own but she won't support him so he stays in a job he loathes--he is making his own trade off here.) She is where she is because she chooses to be there. She has consciously made the decision that what she has is better than another option.

 

To drive the point home, during one of my therapy sessions, I related a story that was disturbing me to my counselor about family member X. Someone had assisted X on legally qualifying for disability payments and then moved X into their home, collected rent, and made themselves legal guardian of X's monthly benefit payments. Can you see how this person manipulated X for their own financial gain? It is a nicer version of a pimp whoring out a prostitute. I was upset to see X caught up in this. My counselor responded,"It's a trade off. X has given up control for the convenience of being taken care of, not having to take responsibility for himself. X is choosing that arrangement because X is getting what he wants from it." I still didn't like that X was being exploited, but at least I understood better. Then again, is he being exploited?...because he's going along with it after all. I see it as exploitation because there's no chance I'd trade my liberty that way, but X and I have totally different paradigms. BS is like X in my story. She's made a trade off in her mind...luxury (and whatever else) for his philandering and other difficult traits.

 

The short answer is...so long as xMM chooses his M, or his BS chooses to remain with him, I'm no longer going to poison myself by being involved with him. IF they ever D, I would need certainty that he is totally done, healed, grown from the end of his M before I would take him seriously (plus all my other criteria). I have learned and grown from this experience. As a result, I am making better choices.

Edited February 10, 2018 by HadMeOverABarrel
typos

[DKT3]

Hmm, I think the fact that you have left the door open is telling. A part of you is clearly still pinning for this guy and hoping he will come back. I'm not sure that is all that encouraging for those struggling to get out if it, because you aren't REALLY out, more like in remission. Also, saying that you don't believe your part in an affair impacted his wife, and attacking her is also telling.

 

All and all, this thread has a fake it til you make it feel to it.

Edited February 10, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Hmm, I think the fact that you have left the door open is telling. A part of you is clearly still pinning for this guy and hoping he will come back. I'm not sure that is all that encouraging for those struggling to get out if it, because you aren't REALLY out, more like in remission. Also, saying that you don't believe your part in an affair impacted his wife, and attacking her is also telling.

 

All and all, this thread has a fake it til you make it feel to it.

 

Hi, I respectfully disagree. I know what I feel, and I've been completely genuine in stating such (or else you wouldn't be challenging me by twisting my own words--if I wasn't genuine would I have stated the terms in which I would accept him, terms in which I 99% expect will never come to fruition?)

 

Also you glossed over where I followed up by saying I have very low expectations of him accomplishing just one of my requirements let alone all of them, which all of them is the standard. If that sounds like pining to you, I think you are confused. How is saying I won't accept the $hit sandwich anymore leaving the door open? You must have a ton of blind faith in this xMM making a miraculous turn around--much more faith than I do. More importantly, you are missing the entire point of the post, which is a discussion about the shift within me to never again accept less. It's just silly to say I'm pining--nowhere am I whimsical or sad or blah blah.

 

What I said was I have no idea how or IF I impacted BS, not that I don't believe I did. You can call my comments about her attacking, but that is a misread. My intent, which you totally blew past (yet again), is that she's not dainty or weak, etc. I also said she is strong and not dumb, and those are compliments, not so? I find it amusing that you say I attacked her for pointing out some of her darker (and true) traits, but you omitted my attacking xMM, which was even more like an attack since I called him names and criticized his behavior throughout...I guess omitting that was more in line with your fallacious belief that I'm pining for him. Now if it bothers you that I've pointed out her traits, then ask yourself why. Ask yourself why you are so quick to assume something not stated, too, and is contraindicated throughout. This is a great example of someone reading and interpreting what they want to see and then projecting their own beliefs onto it.

 

Regarding her traits, I know her to an extent, whereas you nor anyone else on LS know her not at all. Why is making a true statement about someone's personality traits an attack? I guess you also missed the context of why I said what I said about those traits which pertained to her having a strong, take charge personality rather than a weak, victim-like one. Calling this an attack is exaggerated.

 

Oh, and hoo boy, calling my thread a fake is hilarious! I am one of the most genuine, no nonsense people anyone could hope to meet. I don't BS. I don't play games. I tell people exactly what's up regardless of my relation to them or how powerful they are. I don't tolerate nonsense (excepting xMM in the past)...But you don't know me I realize beyond my LS posts.

 

Don't twist my words. Do be sure you have a solid comprehension of what I've stated before commenting. Read, re-read, and re-read again if necessary.

 

I know what I know. I feel what I feel. No-one will undermine or devalue that. You are not going to re-write my OP or taint it by twisting it around and trying to change its context. Carry on...

[DKT3]

Hi, I respectfully disagree. <Snip>

Low expectations is still expectations.

 

Bottom line is indifference, you are not there. Indifference would mean NO expectations, it would mean not caring about the marriage dynamic of these people. You are still very much emotionally tangled up with him and Thier life.

 

My concern is other may see in this what I see and feel more hopeless about Thier situation.

 

No doubt you are making progress, but clearly not there.

Edited February 10, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HadMeOverABarrel]

It's funny how clarity comes when you wake up isn't it.

 

You pretty much hit this on the head but most will not listen but I'm glad for you.

 

Now you get to have a life

 

Marc, I just wanted to come back and thank you for getting that I got it (finally! thank God!). I've read a lot of what you've written around here, and I perceive you to be a no-nonsense, call-it-as-you-see-it kind of guy. I appreciate it.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Low expectations is still expectations.

 

Bottom line is indifference, you are not there. Indifference would mean NO expectations, it would mean not caring about the marriage dynamic of these people. You are still very much emotionally tangled up with him and Thier life.

 

My concern is other may see in this what I see and feel more hopeless about Thier situation.

 

No doubt you are making progress, but clearly not there.

 

Dude, you are still missing the point. I feel like I'm on Venus and you're on planet X. I feel indifference about him (like I stated in OP I finally don't give a crap anymore about what he's doing or not and it feels AH-MAZ-ING!!! Feels better than I've felt since I first met him. I'm not indifferent about how much of my life was flushed down the toilet by being involved with him...probably never will be since it's a loss I will never recoup.

 

I commented on the dynamic in response to another LS poster who asked about the impact on his wife...to answer her question, not because I'm caught up in their life--I clearly said MULTIPLE TIMES IN MULTIPLE WAYS that so long as he doesn't deliver on all points, I will not poison myself with this situation. Oh. and you missed that I love veggies more than him...because I put all my focus back on me and what is healthy for me...and it ain't pining over a MM! Are you even reading what I'm writing? You need to re-read my OP.

 

I hope others caught up in this nightmare of a situation as OM/OW will see there really is light at the end of the tunnel WITHOUT the WW. And if someone feels hopeless about WW's, they should, because until a MM/MW is no longer M (if ever), it is a hopeless situation...which is why I said stop waiting and start living!

Edited February 10, 2018 by HadMeOverABarrel

[DKT3]

I don't want you to misunderstand my point. I read alot of your stuff here but until now didn't comment. I think your doing great, I think you are making real progress. My issue (issue for lack of a better word) is you are still too concerned about them. I'm not going to argue about indifference, just saying your words are not indifferent.

 

You're saying and doing alot of good stuff, except for the "low expectation" thing.

 

Question, why would you still consider a relationship with this guy?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I don't want you to misunderstand my point. I read alot of your stuff here but until now didn't comment. I think your doing great, I think you are making real progress. My issue (issue for lack of a better word) is you are still too concerned about them. I'm not going to argue about indifference, just saying your words are not indifferent.

 

You're saying and doing alot of good stuff, except for the "low expectation" thing.

 

Question, why would you still consider a relationship with this guy?

 

It's not so much that I'm considering a relationship with him as it is that I won't speak in absolutes about the future...on anything at all. I learned at a young age we don't know what will happen or what we will do even though we say we will never do something. Never say never as the saying goes. I believe the probability is very slim about this situation, but 20 years from now or whatever, I can't know what life will bring at that time so I won't pretend to know exact outcomes by speaking in absolutes. The most important thing that I'm focused on is taking the best possible care of myself and doing things that enhance/enrich my life and health while eliminating anything contrary to that end. Pining for a MM is clearly contrary.

 

Or to put it another way...this isn't about him (anymore--what a relief). This is about me.

 

I'll add a short anecdote that was memorable in my turning point. I went to a resort for vacation a few weeks ago. While there I had a 2 hours massage, and it was incredibly painful from all the tension I had stored up in my body. I had tension in places I never felt it in before like in my elbows and forearms. As I laid there wincing in pain during what should have been relaxing and soothing, I thought to myself "This is what being involved with xMM has done to me. I have internalized all this stress over him, and now I have tons of toxicity built up in my body. Not only has this affected my emotional/mental well-being, and cost me in so many other ways, it is making me physically sick. And undoing this is torturous pain as well. No more! It isn't worth destroying my whole self for a crumb of a crumb of a crumb!" From then, I decided anything toxic from foods to people to situations are out and only things/people that bring me health and happiness are in!! My health is first from now on and I've been making monumental changes to support that. No more cola, no more xMM, no more anything that doesn't contribute to the best version of myself!

Edited February 10, 2018 by HadMeOverABarrel

[wmacbride]

It sounds like you're moving past wondering why he did what he did, which is a wise move on your part.

 

In the end, his motives don't matter. you could have wasted more mental energy and time trying to figure him out, but to what end? What good would that have done for you?

[jah526]

I don't want you to misunderstand my point. I read alot of your stuff here but until now didn't comment. I think your doing great, I think you are making real progress. My issue (issue for lack of a better word) is you are still too concerned about them. I'm not going to argue about indifference, just saying your words are not indifferent.

 

You're saying and doing alot of good stuff, except for the "low expectation" thing.

 

Question, why would you still consider a relationship with this guy?

 

Have to say, I wondered about this too. He’s admitted to several prior affairs. He’s not going to change. This is his MO - serial cheater. I guess if you can live with that, then ok. I know I couldn’t.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

It sounds like you're moving past wondering why he did what he did, which is a wise move on your part.

 

In the end, his motives don't matter. you could have wasted more mental energy and time trying to figure him out, but to what end? What good would that have done for you?

 

 

Nada, no good at all. Being stuck in that loop is a life sucking curse. I can't get over the elation I feel at being free from it! After being in that horrible mental torture for so long I feel almost a constant high now. And just to be clear, it is a totally natural high. I don't take any substances or pills, smoke anything, drink anything besides water and tea...it's just the greatest feeling to be free again.

[CloudyHead]

The healthiest act you can do for yourself is to lock the gate on MM and never ever let him back into your life - no matter what hurdles he jumps to come back to you. I was in your shoes. I was healing mentally when xMM left his wife and showed up at my door (literally). Allowing him back into my life was a huge mistake. Initially, he did absolutely everything necessary to assure me that he loved me (I mean, he did pick me over his wife!). We were together for six years. I wish I had those years back as I completely lost my sense of self-worth and self-esteem. I was so naive.

 

I think xMM used me to separate from his wife. He didn't want to be alone. I provided a home for him and was able to meet him on the same financial level. XMM repeatedly cheated on me. After six years of walking on eggshells and being treated with no respect, I gave up on the relationship. I just didn't care anymore. I never spoke to him about my feelings or my thoughts because he twisted my words and a fight would ensue. I started to withdraw but did not have the ability to end the relationship.

 

On a Sunday night, about 2 1/2 years ago, xMM said the absolute worst things to me and my children. I told him to leave. I discovered a few days later that he was seeing a MW. XMM sent me flowers and said he wanted to work things out. Meanwhile he was screwing the MW. MW called me at work. It was an awful time.

 

Within 2 months, MW had left her husband and moved in with xMM and they were engaged. Within 6 months, they bought a home together. As of today, they are still engaged and still together. While it hurt initially that I was cheated on again, xMM love bombing MW and MW falling for xMM ended up being my salvation.

 

Again, close the gate on your xMM and don't let him back in your life ever again.

Edited February 11, 2018 by CloudyHead

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Hi, CH! I'm sorry for your loss incurred during your experience--loss of time, energy, love, money, self-esteem during the ordeal, etc. Thank you very much for sharing your story. It is so valuable to hear from people like you who give a picture of a very possible outcome looking into the future. Those of us most wise will learn and benefit from your experience rather than having to repeat it ourselves. I believe you have done a great service in sharing your story on my thread. I'm certain you have saved more than one person from experiencing what you went through.

 

In that vein, I personally have considered what you've said as a possible outcome for myself if I were to ever reopen the door to my xMM. I have thought about how he used me as a crutch during his marriage-when things got rough for him and BS, he'd suck on my energy to boost him up. When things were not so rough between them, he'd put me on the shelf. Horrible. Similarly, I have had wary thoughts of him coming back to try to use me as a rebound should his marriage ever disintegrate. I would be his most convenient choice after all (unless he has a more willing OW in the background--who could be sure besides him?)

 

In speaking to that in my OP (this thread) I wrote that I know the ugly he is capable of and I would have to see with certainty he has truly grown into a better person (and believe it's unlikely he would because it takes a truly self-aware, courageous, non-egotistical person to do so--opposites of him). However, I can see how any contact would have the danger to stir emotions and hormones before I would properly test him over required time for consistency. That is a real danger! Fortunately, as more time passes, I see him only for his dark qualities and believe that I must have only imagined the positive ones--not sure they were ever there to begin with.

 

Thanks again for your awesome contribution!

 

Edited to add: I want to add that my xMM never had to guts to intiate contact more than once in a row. Plus, he always seemed to prefer I reach out first after periods of silence (no doubt because it made him feel more in control). To me that means it is unlikely I will hear from him for a very long time, if ever. I think he would try to hold his marriage together with all his might because he would not want to face the financial fall out of a divorce. Sometimes I think the only way that they would divorce is if one of them repeatedly threatened to kill the other (maybe not even then)--I think they are both pretty comfy with their financial set up and neither wants to give that up. So, this is to say that I believe by the time xMM would contact me, if ever, I will be well into a happily committed relationship with someone else. If that were the case, I wouldn't let anything mess with it, least of all a disaster like xMM.

Edited February 12, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Scoutjr]

The healthiest act you can do for yourself is to lock the gate on MM and never ever let him back into your life - no matter what hurdles he jumps to come back to you. I was in your shoes. I was healing mentally when xMM left his wife and showed up at my door (literally). Allowing him back into my life was a huge mistake. Initially, he did absolutely everything necessary to assure me that he loved me (I mean, he did pick me over his wife!). We were together for six years. I wish I had those years back as I completely lost my sense of self-worth and self-esteem. I was so naive.

 

I think xMM used me to separate from his wife. He didn't want to be alone. I provided a home for him and was able to meet him on the same financial level. XMM repeatedly cheated on me. After six years of walking on eggshells and being treated with no respect, I gave up on the relationship. I just didn't care anymore. I never spoke to him about my feelings or my thoughts because he twisted my words and a fight would ensue. I started to withdraw but did not have the ability to end the relationship.

 

On a Sunday night, about 2 1/2 years ago, xMM said the absolute worst things to me and my children. I told him to leave. I discovered a few days later that he was seeing a MW. XMM sent me flowers and said he wanted to work things out. Meanwhile he was screwing the MW. MW called me at work. It was an awful time.

 

Within 2 months, MW had left her husband and moved in with xMM and they were engaged. Within 6 months, they bought a home together. As of today, they are still engaged and still together. While it hurt initially that I was cheated on again, xMM love bombing MW and MW falling for xMM ended up being my salvation.

 

Again, close the gate on your xMM and don't let him back in your life ever again.

 

 

Thanks CH, I needed this today. I’m sorry you went through this, but your words and story are helpful to me!

[Poppy47]

Hi, CH! I'm sorry for your loss incurred during your experience--loss of time, energy, love, money, self-esteem during the ordeal, etc. Thank you very much for sharing your story. It is so valuable to hear from people like you who give a picture of a very possible outcome looking into the future. Those of us most wise will learn and benefit from your experience rather than having to repeat it ourselves. I believe you have done a great service in sharing your story on my thread. I'm certain you have saved more than one person from experiencing what you went through.

 

In that vein, I personally have considered what you've said as a possible outcome for myself if I were to ever reopen the door to my xMM. I have thought about how he used me as a crutch during his marriage-when things got rough for him and BS, he'd suck on my energy to boost him up. When things were not so rough between them, he'd put me on the shelf. Horrible. Similarly, I have had wary thoughts of him coming back to try to use me as a rebound should his marriage ever disintegrate. I would be his most convenient choice after all (unless he has a more willing OW in the background--who could be sure besides him?)

 

In speaking to that in my OP (this thread) I wrote that I know the ugly he is capable of and I would have to see with certainty he has truly grown into a better person (and believe it's unlikely he would because it takes a truly self-aware, courageous, non-egotistical person to do so--opposites of him). However, I can see how any contact would have the danger to stir emotions and hormones before I would properly test him over required time for consistency. That is a real danger! Fortunately, as more time passes, I see him only for his dark qualities and believe that I must have only imagined the positive ones--not sure they were ever there to begin with.

 

Thanks again for your awesome contribution!

 

Edited to add: I want to add that my xMM never had to guts to intiate contact more than once in a row. Plus, he always seemed to prefer I reach out first after periods of silence (no doubt because it made him feel more in control). To me that means it is unlikely I will hear from him for a very long time, if ever. I think he would try to hold his marriage together with all his might because he would not want to face the financial fall out of a divorce. Sometimes I think the only way that they would divorce is if one of them repeatedly threatened to kill the other (maybe not even then)--I think they are both pretty comfy with their financial set up and neither wants to give that up. So, this is to say that I believe by the time xMM would contact me, if ever, I will be well into a happily committed relationship with someone else. If that were the case, I wouldn't let anything mess with it, least of all a disaster like xMM.

Good Morning,

 

I have been NC a long time.

xMM always maintained that if he were ever free he would be on my doorstep with in an hour.

 

The only time, ever, he would be free is if his wife were to pass on. That is pretty creepy.

 

If he ever turned up, I know that I would have the security man remove him from my place of residence.

 

Time and distance have certainly changed my perception of him. He is possibly narcissistic, maybe just the most selfish person , not sure. I never want to see him or speak to him again. The fog has well and truly lifted.

 

I hope you will feel the same one day. I feel at the moment you are kind undecided as to how you would react if he came back.

[wmacbride]

Good Morning,

 

I have been NC a long time.

xMM always maintained that if he were ever free he would be on my doorstep with in an hour.

 

The only time, ever, he would be free is if his wife were to pass on. That is pretty creepy.

 

If he ever turned up, I know that I would have the security man remove him from my place of residence.

 

Time and distance have certainly changed my perception of him. He is possibly narcissistic, maybe just the most selfish person , not sure. I never want to see him or speak to him again. The fog has well and truly lifted.

 

I hope you will feel the same one day. I feel at the moment you are kind undecided as to how you would react if he came back.

 

That' a bizarre thing for him to say. Even more bizarre is that he would think you could possibly find that flattering and endearing. He sounds like he has a very strange way of viewing the world.

[grass-hopper]

This is a great post, OP. Thank you for sharing your story and for offering your insight to those/us out here in LS trying to make sense of our place in this and aimlessly trying to escape our own hell that we willingly walked into. Reading your story offers encouragement and hope.

I don’t agree that others, instead of applauding your success in ending the affair and being able to find peace within yourself, that they are finding negatives in your post and ways to discourage how far you have come.

After all this is “support and discussion” where people come to share their story. I don’t need anyone to hold my hand and tell me that it’s not my fault. Obviously I know my story and I feel my guilt. It seems as though some people project their own insecurities and unresolved issues in blaming and bashing others for bad decisions they’ve made. We’re all here to gain insight and improve ourselves through bad decisions we’ve made. How is it that people feel the need to add more negatives to someone who is bearing their souls and their shameful secrets while trying to get through a bad situation. It almost feels counter productive.

Thanks for your post. You offered great insight.

 

“Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own” -Paulo Coelho

[DKT3]

This is a great post, OP. Thank you for sharing your story and for offering your insight to those/us out here in LS trying to make sense of our place in this and aimlessly trying to escape our own hell that we willingly walked into. Reading your story offers encouragement and hope.

I don’t agree that others, instead of applauding your success in ending the affair and being able to find peace within yourself, that they are finding negatives in your post and ways to discourage how far you have come.

After all this is “support and discussion” where people come to share their story. I don’t need anyone to hold my hand and tell me that it’s not my fault. Obviously I know my story and I feel my guilt. It seems as though some people project their own insecurities and unresolved issues in blaming and bashing others for bad decisions they’ve made. We’re all here to gain insight and improve ourselves through bad decisions we’ve made. How is it that people feel the need to add more negatives to someone who is bearing their souls and their shameful secrets while trying to get through a bad situation. It almost feels counter productive.

Thanks for your post. You offered great insight.

 

“Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own” -Paulo Coelho

 

When you climb a mountain you get a good idea of the dangers that lay ahead for those at the base. In conversation with the novice they seem to have a good plan but not the right plan for that mountain. Pointing this out isn't an attempt to discourage.

 

OP has made great progress, yet, she is clearly not there. Too much energy still spent on MM marriage dynamic, still considering a possible relationship if he jumps through her hoops.

 

It's why a said this is more of a fake it til you make it. She is simply still emotionally vested. Thus the anger towards the BW, that manifests as what she called "telling the truth about her" what truth could she possibly know that didn't come second hand?

 

She is moving in the right direction, but truth is, if he came to her today it's highly likely she would fall right back, Because she doesn't recognize the danger and believes herself to be OUT. She is on the way, but still on the hook.

[Poppy47]

DKT

 

I feel Over a Barrel is at a crucial time in her recovery. She needs to take the final leap into NC, NOTHING, GONE NYET NADA forever.

 

Poppy.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

When you climb a mountain you get a good idea of the dangers that lay ahead for those at the base. In conversation with the novice they seem to have a good plan but not the right plan for that mountain. Pointing this out isn't an attempt to discourage.

 

OP has made great progress, yet, she is clearly not there. Too much energy still spent on MM marriage dynamic, still considering a possible relationship if he jumps through her hoops.

 

It's why a said this is more of a fake it til you make it. She is simply still emotionally vested. Thus the anger towards the BW, that manifests as what she called "telling the truth about her" what truth could she possibly know that didn't come second hand?

 

She is moving in the right direction, but truth is, if he came to her today it's highly likely she would fall right back, Because she doesn't recognize the danger and believes herself to be OUT. She is on the way, but still on the hook.

 

Man, you're like a hammer that's obsessed with hitting the same nail. Not just hoops, standards!! You know...Those little things I let go of when I was doing my crazy dance with him. Biggest.mistake.ever! That is one of the great lessons from this--no-one under any circumstance, regardless of how strongly they are connected or what type of relationship, should ever cause a person to compromise their own standards. Do not compromise. If it doesn't pass the test, walk away. If you are an "other," demand better for yourself. If you are a BS, put your foot down (do the "180"). If you are a WW, just knock it off, face your crap, and stop hurting people!

 

That is where I made my biggest mistake. That is where I let myself down most! And, I believe this truth is where we are all universally connected regardless of OW/OM, BS, or WW. No matter where we find ourselves in the triangle, the most painful thing to face is that we may have let ourselves down. This revelation is so painful, that few people are willing to face it, own it, and deal with it. It is easier to stay focused on how the WW victimized us, or if you are the WW, how the BS did/didn't do xyz or the "other" finally gave up leaving you to cry in your soup. By focusing on someone else's behavior, we get to avoid focusing on our own, and boy doesn't that feel better?

 

Now, back to DKT3...hate to keep telling you that you are wrong, but you are. I'm going to be very frank with you for your benefit and others here. If you are extraordinarily courageous, you will reread it a few times and examine it for the kernels of truth that apply to you.

 

First off, I don't need to defend myself to you. I'm not in the habit of giving power like that to people over my life. If this were real life rather than an online community, I would have simply ignored you after my first reply to you just as I do with anyone else who tries to discourage me anytime I have a goal. However, for the sake of people who are struggling to find their way (and I remember the feeling well), I am going to reply because I don't want my message tainted--encouraging others in such position was my original purpose for posting this thread after all. BTW, you would not make a very good life coach at this juncture, but I encourage you to get into some motivational literature/seminars/Youtube videos. One of my personal faves is Tony Robbins, but there are so many out there (Deepak Chopra, Abraham Hicks, Oprah Winfrey, Suze Orman, Joel Osteen to name a few)! I digress!

 

Let me get an easy point out of the way...I am not angry at his BS. I don't respect her or like her, but that is because she is not a very kind person. Truly, if she were a sweetheart, I would have reached out to her and offered to help her financially bury xMM for being such a turd. Now, I will say for a time I was angry with her, but it was totally because she was putting up with being cheated on, and that reminded me of my own mother who also put up with being cheated on when I was 14 yo. I resented that my mother was too weak to eject my dad who blatantly disrespected her, and instead coddled him desperately. Yuck!!! I never regained my respect for my mother after that (so think about that BS's, especially if you have kids and can't find the strength to 180 the cheater).

 

You said, "what truth could she possibly know that didn't come second hand?" I reply, "and you know that how?? How do you know what I know first or second hand? How do you know better than I when I was there and you were not?" Aren't you accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing in that very sentence? You keep insinuating your own story and reality onto mine.

 

With all your attacks, you are starting to remind me of xMM--two people trying to hold me back, but each with very different agendas and methods. We all know xMM's agenda and method, but let's take a closer look at yours. You are driven to post on my thread as you do because something in my story is triggering you and it needs to be healed. What is it? Is it that you believe the OM in your own story was a villain who is 99% to blame for your WW spouse's infidelity? If so, you let your WW off too easily. I know there is some truth to this bc you focused on what you incorrectly perceive to be my attacking my xMM's BS, pitting yourself against the OW/OM in your own story.

 

Is it because you see that I'm moving ahead in my life, succeeding, feeling great...and you believe that unfair because I was complicit in xMM's infidelity against his BS? Do you believe OW/OM should shrivel into a worthless sack of caca during/after the affair? Do you delight in OW/OM pain? Are OW/OM unworthy to have a good life, an even better life, after the affair? You have to get really honest and brave with yourself if you want to be free. If you had even the slightest yes response within yourself to these questions, then what is happening is you have made the OM in your story the evil one who came along and ruined your idealized version of your spouse. You are doing that because you don't want to face that you chose to marry, and reconcile with, a spouse who would be capable of the awful betrayal of cheating...your ego does not want to go there! It is much easier to blame the horrible monster OM/OW for bringing their evil into both your lives, and corrupting your innocent peach. I'm sorry if this is harsh, but no chance you would get my point without this sort of language. Blaming the OM lets you keep your perfect image of your WW and makes the evil go away easier--no more OM, no more evil, right? You are doing yourself a disservice if you think this way.

 

And for whatever it's worth to you (probably nothing at all considering you see yourself in opposition to me), I have been cheated on before with someone I was very much in love with. After the end of that relationship, I wasn't interested in dating for at least 4 years. The pain I experienced with that far pales in comparison to the pain of being the "other." Know what else came out of this for me? I have completely forgiven my dad's OW. She must have gone through hell! I know she ended up losing her job over it and moving away. Until I was in her shoes, I even planned to hunt her down at some point in my adult life and blast her for the hurt she caused me as a kid, and how much it shaped my adult decisions. Now I know she took her lumps already. Being an "other" is one of the biggest mind f^%ks on earth!

Edited February 13, 2018 by HadMeOverABarrel

[DKT3]

You think I'm trying to hold you back? What would my motivation for that be?

 

Not even close, I pull for every ow/MW on the site. My style is the same in every part of my Life. Point out what I see as positive as well as what is negative with no apologies. I don't know you, so I base it solely on what you wrote. In combination with my educational background in human behavior.

 

His wife my be a nasty piece of work, but what exactly has she done to you? Objected to you being with her husband? Has she done anything to you that wasn't spurred on by that?

 

As I said several times, you are doing some good things, I think if you just shift that last little bit and let it go, in my opinion, you will be there.

 

I recall another posters here that I had this very conversation with. She was saying what you are saying but she had this quiet rage bubbling under the surface towards his BW. She refused to let it go. After a year and a half she found herself right back in the affair. Why? Because she wouldn't be honest with herself about why she was saying bad things about this woman, who had really done nothing to her. Her anger was based on MM choosing to stay married and that she saw his wife as a rival. If she had let go of the idea of him she would have no reason to hold hatered towards her.

 

See my attempt as you will, but ask your therapist about this(if you have one) and go from there.

 

With that I will excuse myself from your thread and future threads, I wish you the best.

Edited February 13, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator