Am I really smart or just bitter?

[Midwestmom12]

So,

 

I have lurked around these forums for years. I initially joined looking for support when I was going through a very difficult divorce from a Narcissist. It has been a rough road to return life for my son and I to sense of normalcy but I did it and couldn't be happier.

 

My divorce became final in June 2014. I made the hard decision to remain single because I needed at the time to rebuild my finances after my ex nearly drove me into bankruptcy. I also needed to focus on my own physical and emotional healing. I never realized how damaging toxic relationships can be to our health.

 

Fast forward to here this 2018. I have purchased a home, my son is thriving and I am feeling like myself again. I have a new desire to just enjoy life. I love to travel and take my son on trips during breaks when it's not his father's turn to have him for visitation. I'm hanging out with friends. The best thing in the world is coming home on a Friday night after a long day of work and after getting my son settled I can crack open a bottle of good wine and enjoy crappy movies.

 

What does this have to do with dating? I've been thinking lately about jumping back into the game. The problem? I just could care less anymore I think?

 

We all have a dating narrative and relationship cycle that we need to break. For me? I have always been a good girl so to speak. As such I found in my early years that wasn't all too appealing to most men. I found myself always giving more than I got back and once ditched felt used. I take responsibility for my part in those experiences but it was hurtful to not get asked out much and when I did it seemed the guys had an agenda.

 

As a successful single mom I don't have any issues now getting asked out. It seems these days here in my early 40's I can't keep them off me. However, most of these men are divorced and while they have a lot going for themselves I see most of them as the type of guys that would have never considered me back when. Now that they are in some cases divorced from evil witches that took half their money, cheated or screwed them over I and women like me are all of the sudden the IT girl?

 

Yes, I'm divorced as well I know but I'm not really looking. Just enjoying myself but I can't help but be put off by most of what is approaching me. This past week I have had three guy friends who at one time I liked and they weren't interested reach out and ask if I was single. All of them recently divorced, two of them with psycho exes and they are pursuing me hard.

 

I have been putting them off. Mostly because I feel like, why now? Am I smart to ignore these guys or am I just being bitter? I can take the truth if I am but I guess I'm just not buying that I'm in demand now when for most of my 20's and 30's I was just the nice chick for a friend but not a relationship.

 

Does anyone understand where I'm coming from? Any thoughts? I really would like to date but I guess I'm just not believing in love or happily ever after much these days.

[preraph]

If you're not lonely and feeling driven to be in another relationship, then don't do it, at least not yet. There's a freedom when you're single that you just can't have in a relationship.

[greymatter]

I don't know that it's about being smart or bitter. It's just where you are right now, not feeling an intense need for connection with a man. You sound contented all on your own.

 

It took me five years before I wanted to date after my divorce. Like you, I concentrated on raising my son and worked hard to reestablish myself in on the work front (I was out of the work force for a while after having a child and had to make up for lost time as much as I could). I too own a house and am grateful to have that.

 

I'm further out from my divorce than you, and am ready to be in a relationship and have all of the good things that can come with that, companionship, sex, someone to talk with and have fun with, etc. I'm seeing someone but it's new and not solid at this point. I'm not looking to get married again or put myself in the position of losing half of everything again, which might be an issue for some, not that I ever mention this to people I've dated and no one has asked me "would you ever marry again?"

 

The interest in pursuing dating may come back for you. I'd say that you seem like you are in a good place now, better off than if you were seeking a relationship and couldn't find anyone worth dating. Seems like a peaceful place to be.

[kendahke]

I do. I don't think it's a case of bitterness at all. You know what you like, you've climbed your way back to happiness from a very dark place and the lessons you've learned along the way inform how you presently proceed. That's how life experience works sometimes.

 

Sometimes, you are just over the thirsty ones.

[Cookiesandough]

It’s not bitter to be unattracted to behavior that is shallow, annoying, and fake. It’s normal.

[CrazyKatLady]

Sounds like you are enjoying the fruits of your labor. I will refer to your post as inspiration. Thank you for sharing.

[smackie9]

You are smarter definitely. You see right through these dip s^&%$ and you recognize your self worth. If you are going to date, start fresh with new respectable men.

[Midwestmom12]

Thank you for all the responses. Sometimes it helps just to get a reality check on things. It feels good to be in a good place and I plan to stay here as long as possible.

[maxi105]

Hi miss west, is your name mae, lol....oh no...sorry, that's mid west!!!!. haha...

 

I don't think you sound bitter at all, in fact I can hear there is a lovely element of humbleness to your letter, which is nice to read actually.

 

I think there is probably a reason you are not initiating with these other men that are available and you kind of like them. I think you have already answered why they are still on the touchline in your thoughts about not wanting to be used because now some of the men you've met are facing reflection from being with people who gave them a rough time and so they just want more/or to be attached (maybe or maybe not for the sake of it) - the brackets there are me just thinking out loud.

 

congratulations on your success out of what sounded like a nightmare way for your before the divorce. you are a really strong character and should feel proud at having made the journey you have (and have managed to get a sense of normality and happiness back in a more manageable way for you)...

 

having read your post again, I don't think you should take the lead to these guys, if they really want you make them show you and feel that it is genuine, I'm not really getting the thing from you that there is a genuine want from them, I know I don't know them and I'm not saying they are not all lovely guys; but if they weren't interested enough before then I'm afraid I have to also share your wonder if they are only just in it for their own reflections and you are second best and you are available!!!

 

As you are enjoying yourself, then I think you should just go with that and keep enjoying yourself. I think there is another out there that will take you as you are now and can offer something that doesn't make you question if it is right because you will probably connect that bit more intensely.

 

if it happens with one of the others then fine, if your happy go with it or you want to see how it goes, as long as they know the situation if you are just seeing if anything more is there and you got with them I don't see if there would be a problem in it, but I say you sound like a lovely lady who has been shaped by what has gone on so now you are out of the bleaker times, enjoy it and think how it often goes, it'll come when you're not expecting it blah blah...

 

it's great that you are excited about getting out there to mingle again, I think the energy, fun and openness you have at this time will help you attract someone that is also properly looking (not just looking in a small circle of people over their shoulder for the first immediate people so's not to be alone in their situation like some of the men you fears motives); and as any new man you might meet will be not so known to you I think you will have more fun in exploring about him and him about you.

 

maybe give one of the others if they can prove (really prove) they really do feel something genuine for you, but I think the better option for your enthusiasm and spark would be a new man, a new start.

 

if you discover it actually is one of the others that has your heart and you over looked it, you will know. but I think someone new will give you more confidence and assurance that they want you not missed their chance and are feeling sorry for themselves.

 

good luck whatever you chose to do. it's a nice warm post you've offered, and through the hard times you have proven that positive thing can happen, you took a gamble and you chose to leave something that wasn't working for you and took charge of all the struggles that went with it, so you really do need to feel good about all of that. bitterness is nowhere near in this post; but you have come out the other side a much stronger person and I believe because of your experiences I think you will give more freely and get more also in return from the next person you meet because you are ready for this and seem open to both enjoying and if it happens it happens.

 

so that my take on it. good luck to where this new adventure takes you. you deserve something good after all that has gone on. very best wishes. maxi.

[salparadise]

I can take the truth if I am but I guess I'm just not buying that I'm in demand now when for most of my 20's and 30's I was just the nice chick for a friend but not a relationship.

 

Does anyone understand where I'm coming from? Any thoughts? I really would like to date but I guess I'm just not believing in love or happily ever after much these days.

 

It sounds like to me that there may be some resentment underlying your general disinterest. You seem to have incorporated that perceived lack of appeal into your self construct, and therefore question the motives of men who show interest. I wonder if you've reinforced your walls as a defense mechanism... the age old strategy of protecting the heart by not allowing anyone get close enough to hurt you. So you feel the natural desire for connection, affection, and belonging, but since having that requires vulnerability, you choose to remain impenetrable and construct a narrative that justifies it.

 

I think a lot of people do lose the ability to take another chance on love, and it's not necessarily wrong, it's just an unconscious choice to settle for the safety of a spectator rather than being in the game and taking a chance on losing.

 

I met a really nice, attractive woman several months ago on a dating site. She lives nearby and fulfills most of my criteria. We went out twice. She's divorced and had one long-term relationship afterward (very eligible in this regard). But she said things that made me realize that what she wants is an arms-length companion... someone to go out with, have sex with, assuage feelings of loneliness, but without taking the risk of going all-in again. What a shame. I saw us as potentially being good together, but am not willing to settle for arms-length. I could've played the game awhile and had some fun, but I had a strong feeling that I'd end up falling for her, and that she'd cut me loose as soon as that happened. Or even if she didn't it would've remained a limited engagement.

 

So the point is, you just can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want love you have to take the risk. If you decide to play it safe, you're giving up on love.

[joseb]

I'm not really seeing what the problem is with these guys, and why people are calling them names.

 

Other than the fact that they are divorced, which is also the case with the op, I don't see anything wrong they have done at all.

 

Maybe I missed something.

 

Now, as to if you should date, op, well if you are happy being single and not feeling an urge to date, no need to force it.

[LivingWaterPlease]

It seems to me you have some resentment that these guys didn't like you before you became successful.

 

If you know these guys to be jerks now, of course don't go out with them. But just because they didn't prefer the "before you" is, to me, not a reason to reject their advances now.

 

Maybe they've matured and value different qualities in a woman now than they did back then. If that is so they might be really great guys to date! I know for sure I value different qualities in a man than I did when I was a teenager or even in my twenties.

 

People grow and mature. You've probably even matured and grown some yourself. I would give these guys a chance if that is so. It's called Grace.

 

Now if there are other reasons, such as character defects you have noticed, in some of these men, then of course I wouldn't date them.

 

I, also, won't date a guy who has left a woman unless she has been unfaithful to him. It would be hard for me to date someone knowing he has a crying exwife and children back home while he and I are out having a good time. He has to have a pretty good reason for leaving a woman in order for me to date him. "Growing apart" is not, to me, a good enough reason to leave a family.

 

But, to me, you do sound a little bitter. And if that's so, you're saving them some grief by staying home and watching crappy movies by yourself.

 

It sounds to me as if you need some more time to heal before dating again.

[BaileyB]

You are in a very enviable position in that you don't NEED a man, or a relationship. You have built a good life for yourself and your son. And, you are happy.

 

I used to think of it this way, any man who enters my life had best bring something special. Recently divorced men with crazy ex wives... you don't need that! But, when you meet the right man, you will invite him into your life and open your heart because you want him to be a part of your life... and that is the best kind of relationship to find!

[ChatroomHero]

I had a couple of women who I was interested in years ago, come back and show interest years later. I don't really have interest in them any more though.

 

 

I think part of it is how I viewed them in the past and what I thought a relationship with them would be like and if I put it to the reality I know after years of experience, the picture isn't as rosy as I used to think. It's kind of like my exes, at one point I was really interested but as time passed and I got over them and the interest completely disappeared.

 

 

Plus I find those women are different than before, they have more baggage, a different lifestyle etc., and what I liked about them before isn't necessarily there.It just sounds to me like you are "over" them even though you didn't date them. Once you are there the attraction is gone and probably not coming back.

 

There was one girl I was insanely attracted to that completely blew me off way back when. I ran into her a few years later and she was all over me which threw me off. I was interested a little at that time, but in the past few years I saw she has a kid and is still single. Nothing against kids, but seeing that pretty much took away all interest. If I didn't know her before, it would be different but I wouldn't date her at this point and seeing her I wasn't unattracted but I wasn't really all that attracted to her anymore.

Edited February 11, 2018 by ChatroomHero

[act00]

I think you're leaning more in the direction of bitter than you are in the direction of smart. You seem pretty angry that these guys didn't take interest in you back then. How long ago was that? Ten years, 20? Teens and 20s -- party hardy, rock and roll... I always migrated to older men back then because the ones my age were nowhere near wanting to settle down. You state you were never a party girl. I'm guessing back then these guys wanted the party girl, the boobs, the sex, and you were more serious, more reserved. It's just not what they wanted at that time. They didn't know what they wanted. Dates, girlfriends, life...that's how they figured out what they wanted. Apparently the whole lot of you have not made the best choices, being all divorced and all. <--this is sarcasm, I'm divorced too. We all suck. My point is, we grow and change and we thought we found "the one" and it wasn't' the one. Who we were back then and what we wanted back then can be drastically different than what we are now.

 

Unless you're going to harbor resentment over their lack of interest from 20 years ago, I see no harm in exploring the possibility today. This is why we date. We get to know each other and learn if this person is someone we can be with long-term. If you do go out with these guys, the past will inevitably pop up, and I'm sure he's going to volunteer why he didn't go out with you back then, and you'll be pleasantly surprised what he thought of you back then, or you can ask them about it. Do this with humor because it was just so long ago, and be fun with this questioning. What's more important is who they are now.

 

You're in a really good place by yourself, and this makes dating pretty great because any men you date and might potentially have a relationship with, possibly marriage, will just enhance things.

[kendahke]

I think insulted is a better word rather than bitter. It's like "forget how I treated with you in the past. I remembered you once liked me, I don't want to be alone now and you will do". That's as enchanting as someone throwing up on your shoes.

 

A person who couldn't be arsed in the past but is now thirsty for you because their past choices didn't work out for them and they don't want to be alone--as opposed to wanting to be with you--is someone who is desperate and that is not attractive.

[Midwestmom12]

I can appreciate the posters who are calling me out on being bitter or resentful. I can acknowledge that maybe I am to some degree. I also think more so I'm just enjoying being selfish now.

 

I guess I just flip flopped in my thinking and outlook. When I was younger I wanted to really settle down and have a family. However, the dating scene was tough and as someone pointed out most guys didn't want that back then I guess. I was always mature for my age and wise beyond my years due to a rough childhood. So I was more serious than most of my peers and even when I tried to date a bit older I found I was still often more mature.

 

Now, I just want to have some fun. I had to take on a lot of responsibility at a young age and then of course I got married and had my son in my early 30's. Between my crazy family and my ex I just always felt like I had to take care of someone else. To put others needs above my own. I'm enjoying not giving a damn about someone else's needs except my own and my son's. It's in some ways liberating for me. If you haven't been married to a Narcissist it's probably hard to understand how draining it is. I know it's possible I keep associating what I went through with him with other potential prospects and I shouldn't do that.

 

It would be nice to have a healthy relationship but I am enjoying being selfish and spoiling myself and my son right now.

[smackie9]

Like I said you discovered your self worth, and you don't need a man to find happiness. That isn't selfish at all. That's standing on your own two feet.

[act00]

I can appreciate the posters who are calling me out on being bitter or resentful. I can acknowledge that maybe I am to some degree. I also think more so I'm just enjoying being selfish now.

 

I guess I just flip flopped in my thinking and outlook. When I was younger I wanted to really settle down and have a family. However, the dating scene was tough and as someone pointed out most guys didn't want that back then I guess. I was always mature for my age and wise beyond my years due to a rough childhood. So I was more serious than most of my peers and even when I tried to date a bit older I found I was still often more mature.

 

Now, I just want to have some fun. I had to take on a lot of responsibility at a young age and then of course I got married and had my son in my early 30's. Between my crazy family and my ex I just always felt like I had to take care of someone else. To put others needs above my own. I'm enjoying not giving a damn about someone else's needs except my own and my son's. It's in some ways liberating for me. If you haven't been married to a Narcissist it's probably hard to understand how draining it is. I know it's possible I keep associating what I went through with him with other potential prospects and I shouldn't do that.

 

It would be nice to have a healthy relationship but I am enjoying being selfish and spoiling myself and my son right now.

 

As you should be. My mother is narcissist and my family is nuts. My ex was abusive...insidious, emotional mostly, but then got physical, and I understand how draining it all is. My kids are teens and young adults. I have always worked in a customer service capacity, medically related, so there are needs, always caring for others, and I can fully relate to being in a place in your life that you just don't want to have to take care of anyone anymore. These men, if they're unstable, emotionally broken, struggling still with the aftermath of divorce, their children are much younger and require more care, I can understand backing off and avoiding, because you just don't want to have to mother one more person. And I can understand sowing your wild oats you didn't get to sow back when you were young. You certainly aren't the only one who's felt this way.

 

You could date awhile and determine if this man, his life, his family are something you want and can take on. Again, how he was in the past is just the past. Young, a different place in life, stupid maybe, the last harrah before having to face the realities of adulthood...we all grow up.

 

I think most of us agree that you are in an excellent place emotionally that any man you take on will be and should be an enhancement, not a hindrance, not another child to care for. Again, I think if you're going to harbor resentment on these men due to their non-interest back in the day, then you really shouldn't pursue them. It's just going to be an elephant in the room and could taint everything. If you're willing to explore who they are today, and the past is the past, some good, some bad, you will be able just ENJOY!

[Calmandfocused]

Op, I was too married to a narcissist and I totally get where your coming from. To those who don't know, you don't leave/ divorce a narcissist and if you do God help you! The fight to get out the marriage/ relationship is painful, abusive and draining, and even the thought of getting into another relationship makes you want to run away screaming.. I get it, I honestly do.

 

I also have a son, infact I have two and whilst I believe all three of us were somewhat traumatised by the divorce, my boys and I are now happy, content and settled.

 

I don't think bitterness is the right word for what you're describing. I think fear is. I think your frightened of making a poor judgement for you and your son, and getting trapped in another situation with a partner who is mentally sick like your ex husband. Completely understandable.

 

However there is only one way to get over this fear and that is to face it. Don't listen to your anxieties and give these guys a chance if that's what you want. If you don't that's fine, give yourself some more time. Good luck

[salparadise]

 

...due to a rough childhood. [...] Between my crazy family and my ex I just always felt like I had to take care of someone else. To put others needs above my own. I'm enjoying not giving a damn about someone else's needs [...] If you haven't been married to a Narcissist it's probably hard to understand how draining it is. I know it's possible I keep associating what I went through with him with other potential prospects and I shouldn't do that.

 

It would be nice to have a healthy relationship but I am enjoying being selfish and spoiling myself and my son right now.

 

With the additional information about your family of origin and marriage to a narcissist, I have to ask... have you been in therapy, and if so for how long?

 

The thing is, it's pretty much impossible to escape that kind of history without residual emotional scars. My guess is that your defensive mechanisms have definitive mechanisms, and that all of the resentment and bravado about being independent are masking feelings of fear and unworthiness. You're engaging the old, the best defense is a strong offense strategy. You're barely even willing to admit that you'd like to have some love and affection in your life.

 

Therapy will help bring all of this into the light where you can deal with it, and hopefully get past most of it such that you can be open and feel worthy.

[Popsicle]

This is a tough one. It's one thing to pass on a guy who personally rejected you in the past (I would, its too close for comfort), but it's another to pass on a guy who you've just met, but you *think* he would not have picked you in the past. The former really happened but the latter is all in your head. The latter is also totally wrong because in that case, you have to ask yourself if you've ever picked a wrong guy in your past? Because if you have, then you are no different than them. (I think you verified in your post that you have picked the wrong guy in the past) We all grow and learn.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Popsicle

[Popsicle]

Oooooh I get it. These new guys and the dynamics are similar to your Ex-H and they are reminding you of him!

[salparadise]

Oooooh I get it. These new guys and the dynamics are similar to your Ex-H and they are reminding you of him!

 

Or, perhaps not similar enough... abusive/dysfunctional relationships tend to either cause or be the result of stuck pickers. There’s often a pattern of choosing the same person time and time again.

[hotpotato]

Youre not alone. I can relate to some of what you said. I tried to be so nice and accepting (I've accepted many a fault from a man) only to be rejected. At some point the guy would come back and complain about how some chic was after his money. Those women know how to work a man. They are willing to play games and fake feelings to get to a man's wallet. I read about a dating trick in which a woman is super nice to a man for 60 days to get him hooked on that feeling. This woman will always seem great at first.

 

If being in a relationship isnt in your heart, you dont have to search for it.