Thoughts on Monkey-branching exes?

[lawyaman2018]

Here is my brief situation, would love some advice:

 

Dated my ex for almost 3 years. I'm a lawyer, she was in college. Dropped out of college and I took care of her, we lived together, traveled together, bought her everything her heart desired and we spent nearly all our time together. Definitely a 9/10 girl. However, very VERY clingy, insecure, needy, etc. Looked to me to completely fulfill her happiness. No job, no real friends, etc. She was head over heels about me and talked all the time about getting married. Also, I am her first love and the longest relationship she's ever had.

 

We had our fair share of disagreements/arguments, but nothing really out of the ordinary. I was always more alpha and didn't value the relationship to the extent she did, and she was always worried that I'd end up leaving her for someone better.

 

December 2017...the signs were there, I had been in and out of town a good bit and long story short caught her cheating. Told me she had fallen in love with new guy, and was leaving me for him. Said she loved him and her feelings with him were different than they ever were with me. But, also told me the “I love you and always will but I’m just not in love with you” line. Also told me we’d still be together if it wasn’t for new guy.

 

Caught me off guard, considering we'd been ring shopping a couple weeks earlier. I sort of went beta, spilled a little of my heart to her and asked (might say begged) her to give us a chance, which she said no. After that point, I never mentioned getting back with her or asking for a second chance. We texted a few times the next couple days, then no more. I traveled again for the next month (for work) and found out she had basically moved new guy into our place with her. I go back, kick him out, and she stays in the spare room until she finds a new place to live just last week. While she was still living in my spare room, we talk in passing but nothing substantive and I never ask for her to come back. Unfriended her on all social media, deleted all our texts and trying to forget about her.

 

Her new guy is divorced with 2 kids, was homeless until he moved in with her at her new place, doesn't have any education (HS dropout), long criminal history and no job. She went from living in a nice ass condo in LA with me, who paid for literally everything and spoiled her royally, to living in a studio apartment in the ghetto on an air mattress supporting this loser who she "is in love with". She's now working two menial jobs to support herself and him.

 

The moment she moved out last week, I've gone strict NC. Neither I nor any of her family think new guy will last (he's the complete opposite of everything she's always said she wanted in a guy) and her family wants nothing to do with him.

 

Chances she contacts me again? I've already moved on and am seeing new girls constantly, but am preparing myself for that moment when she realizes she ****ed up and wants me back, which all friends and family say will happen. Thoughts?

[RecentChange]

Thoughts?

 

First, we don't value what we get for free. What was she bringing to this relationship besides being pretty? How did she invest in you and the relationship? What did you value about her as a life partner?

 

What did you love about her? What did she love about you?

 

Rebound dirt bag? Who knows....

 

Yes she may contact you again, but do not respond. It's obvious that she did not love and cherish you... Perhaps it was your paycheck.

 

Like they say... "Money can't buy you love".

[basil67]

Dated my ex for almost 3 years. I'm a lawyer, she was in college. Dropped out of college and I took care of her, we lived together, traveled together, bought her everything her heart desired and we spent nearly all our time together. Definitely a 9/10 girl. However, very VERY clingy, insecure, needy, etc. Looked to me to completely fulfill her happiness. No job, no real friends, etc. She was head over heels about me and talked all the time about getting married. Also, I am her first love and the longest relationship she's ever had.

 

We had our fair share of disagreements/arguments, but nothing really out of the ordinary. I was always more alpha and didn't value the relationship to the extent she did

 

Given all the negatives you have to say about her, why would you give her a 9/10? Surely all those emotional issues would weigh down her score.

 

Also, as you didn't value the relationship to the extent she did, it comes as no surprise to find she fell out of love. Security is more important than the other things you did.

[Scarlett.O'hara]

It depends. If she is more infatuated with this guy, rather than in love, then she might come crawling back looking for familiar comforts once the sex becomes less exciting. Sorry if that sounds crass, but that is the reality.

 

However, if she has truly fallen in love with him, she probably won't. If she prioritizes love over lifestyle, then she might feel it is a small price to pay to have the relationship and man she wants.

 

As hard as it may be to let go, I honestly believe it is in your best interest to close down that possibility, and try to avoid talking to her family about her because it will only cause you more frustration and confusion in the long run.

 

In time I suspect you will be relieved that you no longer have a girlfriend bludge off you. There are plenty of attractive women out there that are more mature and responsible enough to take care of themselves financially, and remain faithful to you.

[Highndry]

She may be a 9/10 in looks but she sounds like a 1/10 in overall quality. Here's a shout out to a poster here @Downtown who needs to see this, because your ex has BPD written all over her. Don't walk, RUN.

[lawyaman2018]

It depends. If she is more infatuated with this guy, rather than in love, then she might come crawling back looking for familiar comforts once the sex becomes less exciting. Sorry if that sounds crass, but that is the reality.

 

However, if she has truly fallen in love with him, she probably won't. If she prioritizes love over lifestyle, then she might feel it is a small price to pay to have the relationship and man she wants.

 

As hard as it may be to let go, I honestly believe it is in your best interest to close down that possibility, and try to avoid talking to her family about her because it will only cause you more frustration and confusion in the long run.

 

In time I suspect you will be relieved that you no longer have a girlfriend bludge off you. There are plenty of attractive women out there that are more mature and responsible enough to take care of themselves financially, and remain faithful to you.

 

Everyone close to the situation says its infatuation. Facts: She met, "fell in love" and decided to move in with him in the course of a few weeks, and one month after dating has decided that marriage should be soon.

 

Also, we had several conversations in our relationship about the kind of man she wanted to be with. Every single quality she always said she wanted in a guy, this guy is the complete opposite of. Now, clearly she sees something major in him for her to want to be with him so badly and leave the good life we had, but this isn't a scenario where "new guy" is clearly better for her and checks all the boxes of the "perfect guy". Especially when, just 4 weeks before the breakup, she told me numerous times how I was the most perfect person in the world for her and she could not have imagined a more perfect guy to spend her life with.

 

I might just be in denial, who knows, but I think the sex/infatuation are causing her to make crazy decisions that she would have never made but for him.

[lawyaman2018]

She may be a 9/10 in looks but she sounds like a 1/10 in overall quality. Here's a shout out to a poster here @Downtown who needs to see this, because your ex has BPD written all over her. Don't walk, RUN.

 

She was a 9/10 in looks, but honestly contributed nothing substantive to the relationship.

[SevenCity]

She cheated on you and threw it in your face. I would never tslk to her again, let alone ask for her back.

[Versacehottie]

She was a 9/10 in looks, but honestly contributed nothing substantive to the relationship.

 

I'm wondering why you are letting your ego get the best of you on this girl who contributed nothing substantive? I mean--do you mean to better herself? And somehow contribute by being a person with some growth, would potentially better your relationship as a couple? And have you imagining a future with her? I think some girl who adored you couldn't have contributed "nothing" because that in itself is worth something. However, maybe you just found her lack of personal growth lacking. From the way you talk about her and as if she cared more than you did, it IS possible she started to feel close to nothing for you. If you start to feel that way about someone (almost a disrespect or distain as if you are not impressed), do you think that they can't sense it? I think they can. To what extent, I don't know.

 

It doesn't really matter if this guy isn't YOU on paper or if he is an actual loser or that eventually any gold digging ways will get the best of her. You don't seem to have much good to say about her--as you saw it, she had nothing much to offer for herself except looks. Listen, if a guy is a loser but doesn't "see" her like that it can mean a lot. When I read your post, I just think your ego is bruised. It will heal.

[Yosemite]

You’re a lawyer and she was in college, sounds like you’re much older than her. Was she a teenager when you started dating?

 

I get that your ego is bruised, but the way you describe the relationship makes it sound like you tried to buy her and that the only thing you like about her is that she’s young and hot. She could probably sense that and that’s why she left. The “loser” that she’s with now makes her feel loved for the person that she is, not the bone structure in her face. His ability to do that is why he doesn’t have to pay for everything for her to want to be with him. (Not saying that they have true love, but that the emotional connection is there with him and was lacking with you.) It sounds like creating and maintaining an emotional connection might be something to work on in your next relationship. Money is not enough.

 

I was always more alpha and didn't value the relationship to the extent she did, and she was always worried that I'd end up leaving her for someone better.

 

Not valuing your relationship doesn’t make you alpha. This emotional disconnect that she felt from you is why she left. I get the feeling that you unintentionally remain emotionally distant in order to cause her to respond with neediness and clinginess which makes you feel emotionally secure and reassured that she won’t leave you. IMO, you need to do the opposite of that…you need to connect with her emotionally so that she is reassured in the relationship and feels loved. Doing that doesn’t equal being beta or a doormat.

 

Also told me we’d still be together if it wasn’t for new guy.

 

Because you paid for everything. If you want to know if a woman really loves you or if she loves your bank account, don’t support her financially until you’re married.

 

Chances she contacts me again? I've already moved on and am seeing new girls constantly, but am preparing myself for that moment when she realizes she ****ed up and wants me back, which all friends and family say will happen. Thoughts?

 

If she’s as hot as you say, she’ll have no problem getting another guy to pay her way. She probably knows that and is experimenting right now with different lifestyles for excitement/fun/experience before she settles down and finds some guy to fund her life. Maybe it will be you, maybe it will be someone else.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Yosemite

[d0nnivain]

Look at the evidence counselor:

 

She contributed a lot to the relationship. She was too young for you to start with so you got your ego stroked by having her hero worship you. She was economically & emotionally dependent on you because she had no job, no friends & no choices. You wanted her to sit on a proverbial shelf, looking pretty until it was time for her to come out & play with you on your schedule.

 

Through all this you were emotionally distant, probably cross examined her half the time you talked (occupational hazard) & you traveled a lot.

 

She got bored & found a man who was more available to her. You may be "all that" on paper, your fancy sheepskin, but he's there.

 

Res ipsa loquitur: she ain't coming back.

[Highndry]

Look at the evidence counselor:

 

She contributed a lot to the relationship. She was too young for you to start with so you got your ego stroked by having her hero worship you. She was economically & emotionally dependent on you because she had no job, no friends & no choices. You wanted her to sit on a proverbial shelf, looking pretty until it was time for her to come out & play with you on your schedule.

 

Through all this you were emotionally distant, probably cross examined her half the time you talked (occupational hazard) & you traveled a lot.

 

She got bored & found a man who was more available to her. You may be "all that" on paper, your fancy sheepskin, but he's there.

 

Res ipsa loquitur: she ain't coming back.

 

Wow, I usually like a lot of your posts but not this one at all. This woman not only lied and cheated, she moved the guy into HIS home that he is paying for while he's out of town working. You put all of the blame on him as if she's not the guilty party here. Booooo!

[act00]

Wow, I usually like a lot of your posts but not this one at all. This woman not only lied and cheated, she moved the guy into HIS home that he is paying for while he's out of town working. You put all of the blame on him as if she's not the guilty party here. Booooo!

 

While this woman was crazy to think moving her new boyfriend into the current boyfriend's home was a good idea, I think Donnivain is pretty spot on. Mr. Wonderful tossed a bunch of money in her direction while he was away and traveling most of the time. He chose a woman who had little direction and not a lot of motivation to make a change, and I highly suspect that if he tried to motivate her, it was more criticism and judgement, and not genuine assistance, as he tossed out some money as he breezed out the door for four weeks. She's a 9/10, young trophy wife who should be available when he has the spare time. He thinks tossing money and no substance makes him a catch. It works for some women until they monkey branch to the next rich man who suits their needs, or possibly chooses a loser who sucks her dry, but he treats her like he loves her, and eventually she finds the perfect balance having been on both ends of the spectrum and hopefully learning from it...or maybe she's just crazy.

 

OP, leave her to herself. She pulled some stunts, moving this man into your home, having no drive or motivation, but don't think that tossing money at women while you're absent for weeks at a time and hardly available when you're home, is going to cultivate a lasting relationship. You can lament about all you did for her (other women), what with the fancy trips and unlimited supply of cash and gifts, but the bottom line is, you didn't connect personally, with love. Something was missing.

[d0nnivain]

The reason I was so harsh to him is that he picked this winner most likely based on her age & looks. So yeah the blame is on him. He's a grown up adult lawyer, allegedly. Yet he buys a college child. Then he wants her back? Poor judgment on his part.

 

Of course her cheating is awful but in that situation lawyaman2018 should have seen it coming because from where I sit, it wasn't all that unexpected.

 

My post was worded the way it was to help him realize that the only 2 things that could make this worse would be taking her back or knocking her up.

[carhill]

Thoughts on Monkey-branching exes?

 

Pretty common IME. Some are more obvious than others. Most of the MW's I met in past life were in that process, grooming prospects to select as a replacement after use for H was concluded. The proof was zero single time. They were with someone new prior to the D being done or even before it was filed. It was so prevalent I came to accept it as normal. However, I have noted that the latest and perhaps final round of divorces in my demographic and social circle there are more choosing to not replace rather live alone. Breeding is complete they are apparently comfortable and need/desire for a spouse/mate isn't as strong.

 

I'm placing bets on a MW right now. Watching how she's changing grooming and other habits as well as her tones of interaction with me. My bet is she'll spring within the next year. I've already been vetted as a no-go but I enjoy the game so look on with interest. I saw a lot of similar behaviors in my exW but was too busy caregiving to put the pieces together. She was living with a new guy before we were divorced and, yup, moved him into the house I fixed up for her in the D. They're still together today. Again, this is normal, to me anyway. People are like chattel. Replaceable. Acceptance is key.

[Downtown]

Highndry, thanks for the shout out.

 

Very VERY clingy, insecure, needy, etc. Looked to me to completely fulfill her happiness... She was always worried that I'd end up leaving her for someone better.

Lawya, I agree with Highndry that you are describing several symptoms for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the jealousy, neediness, impulsiveness, black-white thinking, needing constant attention, and strong fear of abandonment are some of the warning signs for BPD.

 

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.

 

The new guy... is the complete opposite of everything she's always said she wanted in a guy.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong traits on the upper third of the BPD spectrum), she has a very weak sense of self identity. She therefore is attracted to guys having a strong personality who can supply that missing self identity and help give her a sense of direction.

 

This is why BPDers are able to get along well with a wide variety of personality types. This is why they tend to behave differently around different people (i.e., somewhat mirroring their personalities). And this is why, when men breakup with a BPDer GF, it is common for the guys to complain that their exGF ran off with someone totally unlike then. Professional guys, for example, are dumbfounded to see their exGFs riding off into the sunset with a biker guy or a starving musician.

 

Chances she contacts me again? ...all friends and family say will happen.

Listen to your friends. If your exGF is a BPDer, she is emotionally unstable and thus very likely to eventually change her mind.

 

Dated my ex for almost 3 years.... We had our fair share of disagreements/arguments, but nothing really out of the ordinary.

If this statement is accurate -- i.e., that nothing out of the ordinary occurred for 3 years -- you are NOT describing a BPDer. If she is a BPDer, you would have seen emotionally unstable behavior. That is, following six months of infatuation, you would have started seeing rapid flips between adoring you and devaluing.

 

Those flips likely would occur every few weeks and would be triggered, in seconds, by some minor thing you said or did that triggered her fear of abandonment or engulfment. And five hours or five weeks later, she likely would have flipped back just as quickly. BPDers generally are good people who are so emotionally immature that they cannot regulate their own emotions very well.

 

They therefore tend to exhibit the purity of expressions, vulnerability, and exuberance that otherwise is only seen in young children. These characteristics can give them child-like qualities that makes them very VERY easy to fall in love with. But, like a young child, a BPDer can suddenly flip from adoring you to devaluing you.

 

Thoughts?

You are describing several BPD warning signs but, due to the "nothing out of the ordinary" statement, you are not describing a full pattern of such behavior. If you're interested, you may want to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar.

 

If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join Highndry and the other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Lawya.

[lawyaman2018]

One thing I just want to clear up, this is not a relationship where I threw money at her and jetted, only using her when I needed something. We both truly loved each other, and when I wasn't travelling for work, we were together 24/7. We had our share of issues, don't get me wrong, but this wasn't some "sugar daddy" type of relationship as some seem to suggest.

 

To respond to Downtown...I do see a lot of those signs in her. I think the biggest one is the lack of self-identity and extremely low self esteem. I believe she is looking for a person/relationship to be her complete source of happiness and contentment.

 

One thing she complained about, especially in the last few months, was that our "honeymoon phase" didn't seem to be there anymore, and she would always talk about how she wanted us to "always be in the honeymoon phase like we were when we first started dating." Naturally, every couple, especially when living together, sees the initial honeymoon phase end; its a natural part of a relationship. But, the passion and feelings were by no means gone.

[NopeNah]

One thing I just want to clear up, this is not a relationship where I threw money at her and jetted, only using her when I needed something. We both truly loved each other, and when I wasn't travelling for work, we were together 24/7. We had our share of issues, don't get me wrong, but this wasn't some "sugar daddy" type of relationship as some seem to suggest.

 

To respond to Downtown...I do see a lot of those signs in her. I think the biggest one is the lack of self-identity and extremely low self esteem. I believe she is looking for a person/relationship to be her complete source of happiness and contentment.

 

One thing she complained about, especially in the last few months, was that our "honeymoon phase" didn't seem to be there anymore, and she would always talk about how she wanted us to "always be in the honeymoon phase like we were when we first started dating." Naturally, every couple, especially when living together, sees the initial honeymoon phase end; its a natural part of a relationship. But, the passion and feelings were by no means gone.

She doesn't sound emotionally 'developed' and probably never will be. I dated this smoking hot 9/10 younger girl(6yr difference?) after my divorce years ago.. We had a blast and I thought "i could see this going somewhere"..WRONG! We never lived together,but she stayed at my place a lot,even when I'd go to out of the state for work sometimes, she'd have pool parties and I didn't care. Well..while I'm earning my cash to pay for all MY stuff..Her and some dude were enjoying it! I found out while on a ski trip with her,I paid for(obviously), to Vail,CO..Last day there my buddy emailed me some pictures of some guy on MY boat from 3 months earlier(talk about an awkward flight home)! Block this girl and move on..She could be an addict now for all you know.. that's what mine(not in a property sense) went on to become.

[Highndry]

She doesn't sound emotionally 'developed' and probably never will be. I dated this smoking hot 9/10 younger girl(6yr difference?) after my divorce years ago.. We had a blast and I thought "i could see this going somewhere"..WRONG! We never lived together,but she stayed at my place a lot,even when I'd go to out of the state for work sometimes, she'd have pool parties and I didn't care. Well..while I'm earning my cash to pay for all MY stuff..Her and some dude were enjoying it! I found out while on a ski trip with her,I paid for(obviously), to Vail,CO..Last day there my buddy emailed me some pictures of some guy on MY boat from 3 months earlier(talk about an awkward flight home)! Block this girl and move on..She could be an addict now for all you know.. that's what mine(not in a property sense) went on to become.

 

I had a neighbor 5 years ago who was a very attractive gal, late 20's/early 30's, who lived with her firefighter boyfriend. When he was gone for work for several days in a row, she used to have male "friends" over for drinks and hot tubbing. The fact that they stayed the night led me to believe she was cheating on him routinely. I never said anything to him because it wasn't my business, but I felt bad for the guy.

[winny]

The reason I was so harsh to him is that he picked this winner most likely based on her age & looks. So yeah the blame is on him. He's a grown up adult lawyer, allegedly. Yet he buys a college child. Then he wants her back? Poor judgment on his part.

 

Of course her cheating is awful but in that situation lawyaman2018 should have seen it coming because from where I sit, it wasn't all that unexpected.

 

My post was worded the way it was to help him realize that the only 2 things that could make this worse would be taking her back or knocking her up.

 

d0nnivain has nailed it.

[winny]

 

Chances she contacts me again? I've already moved on and am seeing new girls constantly, but am preparing myself for that moment when she realizes she ****ed up and wants me back, which all friends and family say will happen. Thoughts?

 

What thoughts?

You two were obviously not in love. You didn't value her (based on the fact that you were only with her due to her looks) and she was young and lonely and needy and she found someone else.

So yeah, best is that you stay broken up.

[Calmandfocused]

I actually think the OP is getting a hard time here.

 

I agree that the relationship most likely developed because of his girlfriends looks but the reality is that emotions and attachments develop. I believe he did have feelings for her and he has the right to feel hurt by her behaviour. It sounds like the op did everything to keep her happy including paying for her. I don't believe he was trying to buy her or use her. That's my interpretation.

 

I will also say that her cheating on him and moving another guy into the house is fully her responsibility. The op bears no blame for this and it was wrong of his girlfriend to do this, never mind how much she "loves" this other guy.

 

Op, yes your ego is bruised and I get your hurt and grieving. Your probably in a state of disbelief too. But I urge you to focus on you for a moment. Do you really want her? I mean really? If you do the question is why? Apart from the character traits you've mentioned, she is also emotionally flippant and immature. Find yourself another woman who understands that love isn't an emotion that can be switched on/ off at the drop of a hat.

[Downtown]

Downtown...I do see a lot of those signs in her. I think the biggest one is the lack of self-identity and extremely low self esteem. I believe she is looking for a person/relationship to be her complete source of happiness and contentment.

Lawya, if you decide she is exhibiting most of those behaviors at a strong and persistent level, you likely are seeing a young woman whose emotional development was frozen at a very young age. She therefore never had the opportunity to develop a strong self identity or learn how to regulate her own emotions.

 

If that happened, you were essentially in a parent/child relationship with her. Like a young child, she would feel unloved and insecure if you did not provide strong direction and help to ground and center her. Yet, when you did exactly that -- providing what was so desperately needed -- she would resent you because she would feel suffocated and controlled. That's the same struggle that all parents have with their young children.

[olivetree]

Also, as you didn't value the relationship to the extent she did, it comes as no surprise to find she fell out of love. Security is more important than the other things you did.

 

This.

 

What she did was wrong, but it seems like you only really care now that she is gone.

 

This relationship was too lopsided to begin with.

What would change if she came back?

[lawyaman2018]

I actually think the OP is getting a hard time here.

 

I agree that the relationship most likely developed because of his girlfriends looks but the reality is that emotions and attachments develop. I believe he did have feelings for her and he has the right to feel hurt by her behaviour. It sounds like the op did everything to keep her happy including paying for her. I don't believe he was trying to buy her or use her. That's my interpretation.

 

I will also say that her cheating on him and moving another guy into the house is fully her responsibility. The op bears no blame for this and it was wrong of his girlfriend to do this, never mind how much she "loves" this other guy.

 

Op, yes your ego is bruised and I get your hurt and grieving. Your probably in a state of disbelief too. But I urge you to focus on you for a moment. Do you really want her? I mean really? If you do the question is why? Apart from the character traits you've mentioned, she is also emotionally flippant and immature. Find yourself another woman who understands that love isn't an emotion that can be switched on/ off at the drop of a hat.

 

Thanks for stepping in. You're exactly right, our relationship initially developed over a one night stand, and before you knew it we had both fallen in love. We both truly loved each other, regardless of what conclusions others in this thread are coming to.

 

Working a full time job, which requires some travel, and maintaining not only my financial security but also her's wasn't easy. Sure there were some times I wasn't around and times where I could have shown that I care more, but hindsight is 20/20.

 

Do I want her back...the answer to that would be no. I suppose that it would give me some solace to at least hear from her again in the future, or to at least know that at some point she'd realize all I did for her...it makes it sting even more not hearing a peep from her and thinking that she doesn't miss me or what we had in the slightest. And, if she truly came back repentant and a more emotionally grown woman, I probably would give it another chance, making my own changes as well.