Would it be Coerced Consent or Rape?

[AlmostHappy]

Let's say a woman is in a relationship and they are cuddling in bed watching a movie. The bf starts kissing on her neck and they end up in a full on make out session. Now this is where the question I asked comes in. He starts becoming sexually aggressive and persistent. If she is trying to push him off of her, and trying to wiggle back to get out from under him, then she is gripping her jeans trying to keep them up as he is trying to take them off. Nothing seems to get him to stop trying and she eventually just gives in. Wouldn't this be an example of coerced consent? I'm curious what others would view this as.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Let's say a woman is in a relationship and they are cuddling in bed watching a movie. The bf starts kissing on her neck and they end up in a full on make out session. Now this is where the question I asked comes in. He starts becoming sexually aggressive and persistent. If she is trying to push him off of her, and trying to wiggle back to get out from under him, then she is gripping her jeans trying to keep them up as he is trying to take them off. Nothing seems to get him to stop trying and she eventually just gives in. Wouldn't this be an example of coerced consent? I'm curious what others would view this as.

 

I call it DISRESPECT. And yes, coerced consent. If not actual rape.

[basil67]

It's coercion. But no matter how you label the act, it was still an act of violence against the woman. He knew she did not want to have sex, yet did it anyway. Let's be clear that true consent is when both parties WANT to have sex.

 

Did your husband do this to you AlmostHappy?

[AlmostHappy]

It's coercion. But no matter how you label the act, it was still an act of violence against the woman. He knew she did not want to have sex, yet did it anyway. Let's be clear that true consent is when both parties WANT to have sex.

 

Did your husband do this to you AlmostHappy?

 

This did happen to me, but not by my husband. This was a past bf and to this day I don't know how to feel about it.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

This did happen to me, but not by my husband. This was a past bf and to this day I don't know how to feel about it.

 

If you're still thinking about it, you think bad about it.

[preraph]

It's sexual assault. It's date rape. There are several different types of rapists, and some people consider date rapists one, but the truth is a date rapist is just a rapist and will fit into one of those types. You said no and he forced you and instead of putting yourself in danger of him getting violent, you gave in. You're a survivor. But he's a rapist. You should report him. Maybe they will press changes and maybe they won't, but it will make him think twice about doing it to the next woman.

 

For support and guidance google and find a women's shelter or rape crisis center in your area. they can help guide you.

[AlmostHappy]

I call it DISRESPECT. And yes, coerced consent. If not actual rape.

 

Thank you, this was a very complicated time, and I almost feel like I deserved what I got for what I chose to do.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Thank you, this was a very complicated time, and I almost feel like I deserved what I got for what I chose to do.

 

I get it. I feel like I was date raped once, but I didn't even find out we had sex until 2 weeks after it happened (when he told me, on our second and last date). I feel similarly since I was drinking that night, but not any more than usual. Yet I have zero recollection of it .

 

Decent and intelligent men know what consent means. Period.

[AlmostHappy]

I have been thinking about this for a few years now. I feel like I deserved what happened to me for making the choices I made. This short relationship took place during a separation from my husband, we decided after all that happened to try and make our marriage work.

[angiefly]

I have been thinking about this for a few years now. I feel like I deserved what happened to me for making the choices I made. This short relationship took place during a separation from my husband, we decided after all that happened to try and make our marriage work.

It's rape and it's happened to me before too. the guilt and shame is real but it's NOT your fault! No matter what stupid things we've done NO still means NO.

[Mrin]

Thank you, this was a very complicated time, and I almost feel like I deserved what I got for what I chose to do.

 

I'm a guy.

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you. It was sexual assault. It was rape in my book. I really want you to know that you did not deserve that for simply making out and cuddling with a boyfriend. Not one bit.

[Jj66]

Going to play devil's advocate just a bit here.

 

You don't mention in your post if you actually said no. You do say you were physically resisting him in the beginning. Then you gave in. It's possible if you didn't actually say no that he interpreted your resistance more as "hey, let me watch the movie" instead of no sex.

 

I am alao assuming you had already had sex with him at least once before this all happened. Doesn't mean you can't say no but it could affect expectations and how signals are interpreted

 

it would be hard for me to call this rape unless there was a clear no. But there wasn't a clear consent either. He pressured you into sex and that's not cool whatever name you want to give it.

[AlmostHappy]

Going to play devil's advocate just a bit here.

 

You don't mention in your post if you actually said no. You do say you were physically resisting him in the beginning. Then you gave in. It's possible if you didn't actually say no that he interpreted your resistance more as "hey, let me watch the movie" instead of no sex.

 

I am alao assuming you had already had sex with him at least once before this all happened. Doesn't mean you can't say no but it could affect expectations and how signals are interpreted

 

it would be hard for me to call this rape unless there was a clear no. But there wasn't a clear consent either. He pressured you into sex and that's not cool whatever name you want to give it.

 

Once the making out started the movie wasn't being paid attention to. He and I had been dating a couple months, we had sex 1 time before this incident. I tried pushing him off, I literally had a grip on my jeans trying to leep them up, is verbally saying no really required when Im physically saying no? I struggled with what this situation was for the last 3 years. Would I call it rape? I didn't because in the end I have in, but I definitely felt assaulted and forced.

[AlmostHappy]

I'm a guy.

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you. It was sexual assault. It was rape in my book. I really want you to know that you did not deserve that for simply making out and cuddling with a boyfriend. Not one bit.

 

That's not why I felt I deserved it. I was and still am married. My husband and I took a trial separation and I ended up meeting another guy during that time. I'm still unable to forgive myself for the entire situation.

[lovecanbeharsh]

I'm sorry, but I will get a bit harsh on you. It has happened to my ex gf before as she cheated on me. Guess what, she said no, she has a bf, she doesn't want this, but was coerced into doing it.

 

So unless you knew what was going on, which you did and you screamed for help, kicked, punched, and resisted with all your might in indignation, I don't believe you were raped.

 

If you truly were raped, you would have fought long and hard to prevent it. He would have gotten hurt in the process, he would have been verbally and non-verbally told to back off. You say you writhed and held on to your jeans, which he probably interpreted as some kind of a hard to get game or something (I've no clue).

 

Should he have stopped? Yes, if the signs for strong enough

Were you raped? No, you were taken advantage of

 

That's how I see it

 

I hope you can get past this trauma soon

[basil67]

If you truly were raped, you would have fought long and hard to prevent it. He would have gotten hurt in the process, he would have been verbally and non-verbally told to back off. You say you writhed and held on to your jeans, which he probably interpreted as some kind of a hard to get game or something (I've no clue).

 

This has got to be the most ignorant view of rape I've seen on this board. While I believe that in the OPs case we're talking coersion, your view of how a woman will always react during rape is completely false.

 

While some women will fight, it's also very common for women being raped to lay still in an effort to stay alive. Thing is, the desire to live - or even harm minimisation - will frequently override fighting back.

 

If a woman fights back, she's got a greater chance of being more greatly hurt or even killed. If he's bigger and stronger than her, he struggles will probably only have the effect of further enraging the man.

 

When a woman has a knife at her throat, do you really think she's going to move?

[carhill]

I missed the part about the weapons in the OP. No violence OP? It was a makeout session both parties engaged in willingly that led to sexual activity which one party wished to proceed with and the other did not, yes? The party who chose not to proceed made physical efforts to disengage and when such efforts met persistent resistance, eventually stopped those efforts and proceeded with sexual activity, during which there was no violence or force applied. Is that right?

 

I think you described it well and hope you've raised the bar sufficiently that such men no longer reach it.

[lovecanbeharsh]

If a woman fights back, she's got a greater chance of being more greatly hurt or even killed. If he's bigger and stronger than her, he struggles will probably only have the effect of further enraging the man.

 

When a woman has a knife at her throat, do you really think she's going to move?

 

Did u read everything in the section. She said it happened to her when they've been dating for months and even had had intercourse before. The guy literally got no signs to back off. Rape is not an easy word to mistake. Yes women react differently, but after several months of back and forth the guy didn't think much of it. I don't see how she "had a knife to her throat" They were making out (by her choice) and all she had to do was say no and push. If she doesn't do that, how the fu** is the guy gonna get the clue? Is he supposed to develop telepathy? Kick, scream, do something. She may not have wanted it, but she hasn't taken the appropriate action by what I see.

[carhill]

I was married for over a decade, a far more committed situation than two people dating or BF/GF and there was no presumption that my wife, or I, must submit to the other sexually. If she/I wasn't in the mood, which was rare, there was no verbal nor physical coercion. It's called respect. Perhaps it's a lost behavior, IDK.

 

A man can control his impulses. Else we'd be killing people daily

[todreaminblue]

Did u read everything in the section. She said it happened to her when they've been dating for months and even had had intercourse before. The guy literally got no signs to back off. Rape is not an easy word to mistake. Yes women react differently, but after several months of back and forth the guy didn't think much of it. I don't see how she "had a knife to her throat" They were making out (by her choice) and all she had to do was say no and push. If she doesn't do that, how the fu** is the guy gonna get the clue? Is he supposed to develop telepathy? Kick, scream, do something. She may not have wanted it, but she hasn't taken the appropriate action by what I see.

 

some people go silent when they are raped.....ssome people go into a form of shock...some people freeze and some people who have been raped more than once...know if you fight and tense your muscles down there ...its going to hurt more...especially anal......some people actually float away somewhere safe so they dont have to be present in their body and feel pain......they dont respond...they just lie there..... and that is how it becomes a disassociative disorder...with the attachment of trauma...........

 

 

and some people dont say no and hold up their jeans and try to do the zipper back up....im no rocket scientist but if a guy was trying to keep his pants zipped up with me...or tried to pull them up writhing underneath me when we were making out...i would assume he didnt want sex.....you know what...as a human who respects other human beings and their choices non verbal or verbal....i would stop...because i dont want to force someone unwilling to have sex......which is sexuial assault if i were to go ahead and do it anyway...and it is rape.....whether no was said or not..because you also know what wasnt said....was yes....

 

some people when they are being assaulted are crying out no ...in their head and they think they are saying it aloud because they are screaming it in their head.....

 

 

some people know especially women.....that rapists want you to fight and the best thing to actually do to a rapist is be a dead fish....or urge him on with things like yes i so want you i havent had sex for so long il let you make love with me...this ghonerreah has been killer to my love life i tell ya....and slobber on your hand and wet your vagina...act so disgusting they punch you and let you go....because the last thing they actually want....is the woman controlling and wanting sex......this is risky though bexcause they may hate on you that bad they cave your head in....i took the risk

 

i used the ghonerreah thing on three guys who pulled me into a service station back room.....and they actually threw me out of the service station and i went on my merry way.....but i am an ex hooker who has been raped....who knows that fighting men is out......and that if you want help you dont cry rape you cry out fire.....for someone to actually want to see whats going on....and possibly help you

 

and as a woman i know...just because you date a guy and have sex with him once that does not mean that everytime is yes.....guys need to learn to ask .and listen aND hear with all certainty ...YES ...YES YES......and if they dont ask if its ok and listen for the answer ....YES...then face the consequences of possible lawsuits....or be celibate until they are married and then ask and then listen for yes......to make love with their wife.....since when is it right that men assume that sex is a given just because they want sex...

 

op you are a survivor of sexual assault......seek professional help and possible closure for you adn yoru body to heal...so next time when you meet someone you are dating and are serious about you still have the right and personal god given right to say no at any time or any place and have that right respected by a good man who is the type you should date.........or to say yes ..it is your body...make sure you know what you want and stand true to what you want not what they want.........deb...

Edited February 20, 2018 by todreaminblue

[AlmostHappy]

Did u read everything in the section. She said it happened to her when they've been dating for months and even had had intercourse before. The guy literally got no signs to back off. Rape is not an easy word to mistake. Yes women react differently, but after several months of back and forth the guy didn't think much of it. I don't see how she "had a knife to her throat" They were making out (by her choice) and all she had to do was say no and push. If she doesn't do that, how the fu** is the guy gonna get the clue? Is he supposed to develop telepathy? Kick, scream, do something. She may not have wanted it, but she hasn't taken the appropriate action by what I see.

 

Wow, you really are a piece of work. Was I raped, I don't think it constitutes rape, but it did constitute coerced consent. I may not have said no, but what kind of man would continue trying to have sex with a woman who is pushing the man off, holding up her jeans to keep them on, and trying to wiggle out from under him? Telepathy really? I think physical responses are enough of a clue to know I didn't want it. I gave in because he just wouldn't let up, and having been assaulted in the past (by another ex many years back) my reaction was to stop physically fighting.

[basil67]

Did u read everything in the section. She said it happened to her when they've been dating for months and even had had intercourse before. The guy literally got no signs to back off. Rape is not an easy word to mistake. Yes women react differently, but after several months of back and forth the guy didn't think much of it. I don't see how she "had a knife to her throat" They were making out (by her choice) and all she had to do was say no and push. If she doesn't do that, how the fu** is the guy gonna get the clue? Is he supposed to develop telepathy? Kick, scream, do something. She may not have wanted it, but she hasn't taken the appropriate action by what I see.

 

I read it all. I was responding to your generalisation that if she was truly raped, she would have fought back. I'm telling you that not all women fight back when raped and for very good reason. Fear of being killed is one of them.

 

For the OPs particular situation, you say he literally got no signs to back off. But the OP said she was trying to push him away and hold her jeans on. How do you not understand this is a very clear "NO"? The only time a guy should disregard obvious negative body language is if they have agreed to sex play in this sphere complete with a safe-word.

 

Yes, she eventually laid back and let him do what he did. Hence me saying it's coersion and not rape. But the fact that he's bullied her into submission is not OK.

[todreaminblue]

I read it all. I was responding to your generalisation that if she was truly raped, she would have fought back. I'm telling you that not all women fight back when raped and for very good reason. Fear of being killed is one of them.

 

For the OPs particular situation, you say he literally got no signs to back off. But the OP said she was trying to push him away and hold her jeans on. How do you not understand this is a very clear "NO"? The only time a guy should disregard obvious negative body language is if they have agreed to sex play in this sphere complete with a safe-word.

 

Yes, she eventually laid back and let him do what he did. Hence me saying it's coersion and not rape. But the fact that he's bullied her into submission is not OK.

 

how i look at it is ...if you were in a fight you didn't want to be in and you failed to hit back or fight because you were confused about it,felt threatened or scared and you tried to get away or avoid contact, you put your hands up as in a non verbal surrender but didnt say no i dont want to fight....but ended up on the floor copping hits because that person is on top of you...is that person guilty of assault.........now just put that in a sexual context and you have is that person guilty of sexual assault...i dont know about sexual coercion of consent... seems grey to me and a term used to confuse and create a softer term to gain a lesser charge in court by defense laywers..

 

one thing about coercion of consent is that consent has to be given to be coerced...she didnt give consent...she gave non verbal cues that denied consent.......her not fighting back is not consent....her allowing a make out session is not consent....even if she has had sex before...if she had said yes that is consent....to have coercion of consent ..consent must be given under force....i dont think she did say yes ...havent read that in any of these posts....

 

.when what is really plain and simple is actual fact..are the terms sexual and assault........ and i like black and white...either it is or it isnt..and guys who have sex without getting a yes should understand consequences.....

 

legal definition of sexual assault.....

 

 

Sexual assault is any unwanted sexual behaviour that makes a person feel uncomfortable, threatened or scared. It covers:

 

Rape: forced, unwanted sex or sexual acts.

Child sexual abuse: using power over a child to involve that child in sexual activity.

Indecent assault: indecent behaviour before, during or after an assault.

 

 

was he indecent to op......yes he was ....did she feel uncomfortable ...yes she did.... she was squirming and writhing....was the sex unwanted .....yes it was......its sexual assault

...deb

Edited February 20, 2018 by todreaminblue

[Els]

Yes, coercion at the very LEAST. So glad you're not with him anymore, what an *******!

 

That being said, while the blame does indeed fall squarely on the coercer and not the victim... my advice to anyone in a situation like that would be to (1) say very clearly "No, get off me or I'm calling the cops", and (2) stand up and physically leave. Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not blaming you in any way, but these actions could stand you in greater chance of escaping the crime. Similar to screaming very loudly if someone grabs your purse, etc.

[anika99]

I vehemently disagree with the notion that a woman has to fight her attacker in order for it to be rape. I haven't been raped but I can still understand why a woman would choose not to fight. If you're completely alone with the guy and you know nobody is going to come to help you and you know he is stronger and going to overpower you anyways then I can understand just relenting and getting it over with. Fighting is just going to make it take longer and cause more physical injuries and emotional trauma.

 

The feeling of having been raped is dreadful and recovery from that can be very hard so I also think sometimes a woman will give up without a fight so that later she can feel like it was her choice and it wasn't really rape.