How low is the bar set for men?

[Sunlight72]

It got me thinking. WHY do we worship men who do the bare decent human being minimum?

I don't know who the "we" is that you are referring to. Not many women I know including my two ex-wives and an ex-longterm girlfriend.

 

I see women choosing not to stay with men who are decent and considerate, but not quite the right match regularly.

 

But I don't follow instagram, so that might be a different subculture (?).

[Els]

I don't often notice the phenomenon you describe, OP. Sure, there are a few people who set the bar REALLY low, but I don't think they are the majority, or that there is a difference between the genders in that aspect.

 

Lots of non-cheating, non-abusive, etc guys are single, after all. Clearly it isn't a ticket to "worship" the way you describe it to be. Lots of people DO expect more.

[littleblackheart]

I can see how you wouldn't be able to to read signs of dysfunction. But you would also be able to tell when somebody doesn't live up to their word. Even the fact that you chose to not get involved is a sign of you taking control to me, and not letting somebody else decide for you.

 

Thanks.

 

This 'setting the bar low' bothers me a little - it lacks empathy. We're not all omniscient and sometimes people don't know any better. Abuse is their 'normal', they don't have the support or strength to deal with it.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Point is, why would a woman complain about a low bar for men, when most men(even some desirable men) don't set the bar all that high for women??

 

I mean, seems like a lot of hypocrisy, no??.

 

I never heard a guy say he needs a woman to make 100K plus a year, yet women say that about guys all the time..I could list many other examples but don't want to turn this into a gender war..

 

So back to your question...

 

I know of no (what I would consider desirable) women who set a low bar for any guy they are with...Nor would they ever talk about it...If you feel you are in that category, then let your friends settle for frogs and go find your Prince...

 

TFY

 

I wish men set the bar at "making over 100K a year". That's a hell lot easier than not getting fat if you are predisposed to easily gaining weight

 

I often wonder why men marry and stay with women that only have missionary sex with them few times a year. Then post divorce, they expect a new woman to do anal 2x a week

 

Both sexes set the bar incredibly low when they are attracted to someone and incredibly high when they are not. Outside observers can't gauge real attraction levels so all they have to go on is "he treats you well".

[basil67]

Sure, but I’m talking about using one as a defence against the other.

 

But why would you do that when both things can be true?

[CollinW]

I think it's fair to ask how does that "low bar" compare the the standard women are held to? After all, the entire courting dance is pretty much women sitting back and doing nothing while men jump through hoops to impress her right? Doesn't get much lower than that.

 

A man doing the bare minimum likely won't get anywhere unless he's extremely handsome, that's the reality. A woman doing nothing and expecting letting men do all the work is best case scenario for most of them.

[BluesPower]

OP, I answered this a little in your other thread...

 

And, I don't know if I am fixing to thread jack or not. But here are my thoughts on this. I goes a little further than your questions.

 

On men and women in general. Setting the bar low, I just disagree with this concept and the assumptions that go with it.

 

Now, I know OP and a couple of other ladies are dealing with decisions that are terribly difficult to make, and I completely understand that.

 

I understand that some women think that a man that is a good provider, a good husband overall, and a good father, but he is just not it for you now.

 

I would submit that a man like the above is doing more than the bare minimum. I would say that he is a really good guy, and should be treated as such. I know a lot of women that don't even have that much in their men.

 

But these guys can get wrapped up in their careers, being a dad, and what not. So the sex can fall off, and it may not have been that great from the start. You get wrapped up in being a mom, or in your career. And eventually the attraction if there ever was any, dies. And you are no longer into your husband. You both let the passion die, or you accepted less passion because you thought he was "Safe".

 

Now, to be fair, it takes two to tango, so the wife in the marriage has just as much responsibility in keeping the sex life going as the husband does.

 

For example, if you were not into him sexually, or not that physically attracted to him from the start, why did you marry him? Because you wanted out of a bad home (parents) life, or a dead end life (where you were not getting anywhere), or you thought that stuff did not matter (because he was a good guy). And there are a ton of other reasons.

 

So now, a lot of woman (and men) stay in the R because it is comfortable, and stable, you have kids, whatever.

 

So whose fault is it when you just feel like a good guy is not enough?

 

I don't know or pretend to know, but lets take is a step further. And look at what women seem to want in a man after being married a while, or maybe when dating after a divorce.

 

But in either case lets look at what it seems like a woman wants.

 

You want a man that is confident, successful, full of energy, good looking at some level, hopefully in shape, passionate, intelligent, good in bed, does not cheat, never angry, always is ready to meet all of your needs, (emotional, sexual, affectionate, but not expecting sex).

 

So, when you are dating, you want that hot bad boy, who knows how to please a woman. Yeah, he drinks a little too much, and always parties with his friends, women love him, men want to be him, but he is great in the sack. You may be with him for a while but you find out that he cheats because he is so attractive that lots of women want him, and he just can't say no.

 

OK, you pick the "Rich Successful Guy", and he is OK in the sack, but he does not really have enough time for you because he works so much. Of course that is how he got rich, by working so much and being dedicated to his career. He does not really have time for the kids, again works too much. And of course when traveling, he is not above a ONS because women chase him all the time.

 

I could go on and on with these types of examples. But let me give you an example from my later dating life. Got a great new GF, we are deeply in love. Our sex life is great. She says she has never been with someone like me sexually, or with as high a sex drive as me. She loves the way that I treat her in and out of the bed room, bla, bla, bla.

 

Of course, I know how to treat a woman inside and outside of the bedroom BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN WITH A LOT OF WOMEN.

 

However, if you ask her how she feels about the amount of women that I have been with, (no numbers given BTW), she is somewhat repulsed by that aspect of me and my past.

 

But here is the kicker, I would not be good in bed if I had not had a lot of practice. So, she wishes I had not gotten around as much, but she loves our sex life.

 

So I ask, what is a guy to do? It would seem that women what hot sex, a perfect husband, great father, great provide,r a little dangerous, always in great shape, never has the possibility of cheating, and on and on...

 

Because that man does not exist.

 

And I know that there are generalizations, but they are real generalization that I have seen time and time again...

[basil67]

I was thinking further about this question when I was out today.

 

What you're talking about is called "counting your blessings" and would be very common among people who take their marriage vows seriously. It's a coping mechanism and the practice would hark back to the old days when people couldn't divorce. Having a man who was sober, doesn't beat you, is civil and employable would be a very reasonable expectation for a women. Likewise, a man's expectations of a woman would be that she did as she was told, was fertile and kept a clean house/could supervise maids and didn't nag. There are so many expectations of a partner which simply didn't exist back then.

 

Go back in history and you'll find marriages which are made for the sake of increasing property holdings. Or the simple practicalities of meeting each other's basic needs. I was reading a non fiction book about life in Victorian times where it talked about choosing a partner: Marriage was about the man supplying the woman with a roof and children, while the woman cared for his housekeeping needs. Of course, it was expected that the couple could be respectful to each other and of the same class - but love was a bonus - not an expectation.

[GoodOnPaper]

It got me thinking. WHY do we worship men who do the bare decent human being minimum? Is the bar really set that low that we consider anyone who treats us with the basic respect one SHOULD treat their partner with a “catch”?

 

Where on earth is decent behavior being "worshipped"? I certainly missed out on that. The message I received over and over and over again was that my decent behavior was "boring". During my single years, my self-worth was chewed up and spit out in just the way women on LS say that "nice guys" deserve to be treated. I married the first woman who was genuinely interested in me and it felt like I was bailing out of a sinking ship.

 

That said, I would hope that women come to realize that at least some of the qualities that are considered "boring" in a man's early 20s may actually serve an LTR well 10, 20, 30 years down the road. Of course, that is probably naive of me - now we have reached a point in society when no matter what stage of life we talk about, a man is only valued for his short-term attraction qualities.

[basil67]

My, how things have changed! Now, a woman expects more, and a man expects less

 

I was going to challenge with all the expectations men have with our appearance. Then I remembered that being attractive has always been an expectation of us. Nothing has changed

[Imajerk17]

Where on earth is decent behavior being "worshipped"? I certainly missed out on that. The message I received over and over and over again was that my decent behavior was "boring". During my single years, my self-worth was chewed up and spit out in just the way women on LS say that "nice guys" deserve to be treated. I married the first woman who was genuinely interested in me and it felt like I was bailing out of a sinking ship.

 

That said, I would hope that women come to realize that at least some of the qualities that are considered "boring" in a man's early 20s may actually serve an LTR well 10, 20, 30 years down the road. Of course, that is probably naive of me - now we have reached a point in society when no matter what stage of life we talk about, a man is only valued for his short-term attraction qualities.

 

I do think there is a lot of truth to this.

 

Where is this so-called bar that the OP speaks of. I don't think there is a bar. On the one hand, I am positive from the threads on here that there are a lot of women out there hopelessly devoted to a man with many problems. BUT on the other hand, I am also positive that there are also plenty of decent guys, emotionally available, great careers, ect who are wondering what the hell does it take to get a second date. Several of these guys were posting this on a thread that was active just last week....

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/645846-problem-nice-guys

Edited February 21, 2018 by Imajerk17

[LostandLonging]

I think somewhere along the line the point I was trying to make got lost (my fault), as so many people seem to be focusing on my “worship” sentence.

 

I guess in short what I was trying to say is that a man not beating you, cheating on you, gambling all your money away and just being someone who treats you as an equal should not be considered commendable, positive traits. These things should be a given, not things to be placed in the “pro” column. As the commenter on that Instagram post said “You aren’t an exceptional person for not doing the bad”.

[road]

I think somewhere along the line the point I was trying to make got lost (my fault), as so many people seem to be focusing on my “worship” sentence.

 

I guess in short what I was trying to say is that a man not beating you, cheating on you, gambling all your money away and just being someone who treats you as an equal should not be considered commendable, positive traits. These things should be a given, not things to be placed in the “pro” column. As the commenter on that Instagram post said “You aren’t an exceptional person for not doing the bad”.

 

Everyone can not be exceptional. There is nothing wrong with being

average.

 

I understand how a woman can wish a "Prince Harry" married her.

Look the way his wife is always dressed. To die for. Just like butter.

Or a "George Clooney and have the second house in Tuscany, with

essential staff.

 

What I see is a lot of women holding out for their Mr Exceptional

when they themselves do not bring to the table what is needed to

close the deal. They have an over inflated self worth.

[neowulf]

I think generally expect a lot less of themselves than they do of other people.

 

In the end, aren't we all just setting our own bars? All of us have our deal breakers, wants vs needs.

 

If people are honest and turn the mirror on themselves, they often realise that they're not without fault. None of us is perfect.

 

I think there's a general turn away from "kindness" these days in relationships and it makes me very sad.

 

You don't treat your partner well because it's "socially expected". You treat her well because you love and care for her.

 

In my book, kindness and compassion from both sexes is something to be nurtured. We're all only human and we're doing our best. You can either focus on the flaws, or marvel at the strengths. It's all about perspective.