Thoughts for an ambivalent dad?

[ambiv123]

Hello,

 

I feel compelled to ask for other opinions on my situation. I’m sure regulars here have read such posts hundreds of times before, but if I may I’d like to add one more. I’d appreciate any constructive advice or criticism.

 

I’m stuck in ambivalence over what to do in my marriage. Been married for 3 years to my wife, together about 6, with a child approaching 2 years. Six months ago something I never thought would happen did, and I’m still struggling with the implications.

 

I was travelling with a couple of friends with whom I have some common hobbies. It was a late night drive and I found myself chatting passionately with a female friend I’ve known for a couple of years. It sounds so cliche to write, but something clicked and I realized we had a lot more in common than a couple of hobbies. It had been so long since I had enjoyed such varied and deep conversation where the hours flew by and I guess I felt we bonded. We’d had interesting conversations and traveled together before, but she lives with her boyfriend and the thought of being anything more than friends had never even crossed my mind.

 

Since then I feel like something changed within me that can’t be undone. I realised I enjoy spending time with this friend more than I do with my wife. I realised I can have intellectually stimulating conversations that I’d forgotten I cared about, share common interests and hobbies I can’t with my wife and experience a deep emotional connection I’ve never really felt before. To keep things short, after talking with her about the feelings I’d developed I discovered the attraction was mutual not long afterwards. We live quite far apart, so we can only meet to once a month, and otherwise message each other most days.

 

I’ve spent the last 6 months burdened by this discovery, torn inside with guilt and sadness, but happy at having bonded with someone in a way I hadn’t before. I’ve spent days reading forums, books, talking to friends and even a divorcee about my situation to try and gain insight. I recognize that, certainly in the early stages, I was probably overcome with limerence as I started to obsess about her. Recently it has calmed down as I got to know more about the girl. We’ve had a few big arguments and disagreements, mostly due to the complexity of the situation and my desire to become closer despite not being in a position to, but we have managed to talk them out and become closer as a result. There are things about her I dislike and faults I can see more clearly now, so I’m somewhat sure I’m no longer just gripped by infatuation. But I still find myself wanting to be with her and excited about that possibility.

 

At the same time I recognize that this has probably crossed over into emotional affair territory. I have always been deeply opposed to the idea, and it has taken everything I have not to kiss her or take things further. I’ve managed to draw the line at cuddling, whether that’s worth anything at all. I realise I need to try and work on my marriage, but with all my deep thinking and analysis and research, including going through the book ‘Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay’, I find myself, as objectively as might be possible, arriving at the conclusion that I want to leave my marriage.

 

I’ve talked to my wife about my unhappiness a couple of times, and I’ve tried to articulate some of the things above, but not gone as far as talking about my feelings for the other girl, as I think that would hurt my wife deeply and only make the situation worse. Of course, I feel a great guilt at having to hide this, but I also feel a responsibility to get my head straight before saying things that will leave scars. My wife has already realized that I might have feelings for this other girl due to things she’s said in passing comments, but hasn’t outright pressed for details. My wife is obviously very sad, although she doesn’t show it, and I’ve found it very hard to be affectionate towards her at home anymore.

 

I’ve tried, rather half-heartedly I have to admit, re-igniting the passion in my marriage by trying some new activities together and talking about my feelings starting to disappear and how it bothers me we can’t enjoy the same hobbies and have deeper conversations. My wife tries to help by being loving and kind, but we both seem to recognize that my requests aren’t something she can just change. My stomach churns every time I have to kiss her or say I love you because I don’t feel it like I used to. There’s doubt there now. I know that in these situations the advice is often to keep trying and the feelings with return, but how can I try with earnest when my heart isn’t in it? I feel by being warm and loving I am deceiving her, but I care for her deeply and don’t want to hurt her.

 

When I got married I never for a moment thought that I of all people would be considering divorce or that my feelings would change. I’ve always dreamt it is a lifelong thing and that with enough effort anything could be overcome. I’ve always believed love is work and I still do, but at the same time, I do not want to try and blind myself to the feelings I’ve developed, nor do I think it a good thing to cut off all ties with this other girl to save the marriage. I guess I don’t believe in the institution of marriage so much that I would kill my own feelings and desires…

 

The illusion that I would be ‘in love’ forever has shattered. I’m not confusing wanting the initial rush of ‘love’ – I know that disappears after 1-3 years – but, as far as I can tell, I feel like the deeper ‘love’ I felt towards my wife has gone, or at least changed significantly. The best way I think I can identify this is that I find myself sometimes fantasizing about being in an accident to not have to deal with the situation, and that it would make it much easier for me to make a decision if I knew she had someone who could make her happy. I recognize that this might be an early mid-life crisis (everyone involved is in their 30s), and that I'm going through some hard belief-transitions to make sense of the broken illusion. I feel perhaps I need this for my personal growth and happiness, but that I could be deceiving myself.

 

I try to think back to the things I enjoyed with my wife and the good points about our marriage. She is a fantastic mother and a very caring person, we enjoyed travelling together when we first met and she hasn’t done anything wrong towards me. But our marriage, like many I guess, has become boring, and as disgusted as I am with myself for writing it in this way, I just don’t find myself wanting to spend time with her anymore. I realised that this has been the case since before our child was born – I would spend most of my free time with friends, or we would just lounge at home. Perhaps it took this other girl to wake me up and see that. I realise that some couples can have very different interests and work well together, but I crave a life partner that I can share the bulk of my pursuits and passions with. My wife just doesn’t share these, although she gives me the freedom to pursue them, and I try to return the favour by looking after our child when she wants to pursue her hobbies. It feels like I could have this with the girl I developed feelings for, though I’m aware I may be misleading myself.

 

I feel like I’m arriving at a point where, if there wasn’t a child involved, I would want to break up to risk pursuing these unknowns. But I’m very aware that, worst case scenario, I may lose my son. Joint custody isn’t legal in the country I live in, and there have been cases where the father is cut out of the child’s life completely and has no legal means to even see them. Those are the horror stories and ultimately what I risk losing most. But, having gone through many thought experiments, I no longer fear being single. I’ve become okay with the idea that a relationship with this other girl might not work (grass is greener and all that), and might not even happen should I leave because of the distance and her financial situation. And yet I still find myself feeling like I need to be single again – or perhaps I’m causing myself to believe that I feel that way..?

 

So I’m stuck, gradually starting to hate myself for being a person I never hoped I would be, but torn by the realisation that, yes, my feelings have changed and I don’t know if I love my wife anymore or why I should even fight for it like society says I should. I’m afraid that maybe I’m still being misled by temporary emotions and chemicals in my body, and that maybe I will regret not trying harder in the future, but at the same time I find myself depressed and in a dark place anytime I’m not busy at work, and I find myself crying when I seriously think about all the hurt that is and will be brought by this situation.

 

I guess the problem is I can find any number of ways to doubt my own thoughts and feelings, and that nothing is certain, and because of that I’m stuck. What other things can I do to try and figure this out? Is there anything I’m not clearly seeing that you can? Does anyone have a similar story that can share things they learned?

 

I thank you in advance for any frank and constructive advice. Apologies for the long post.

[NopeNah]

I think you nailed it with the "unknown" part. I'd suggest thinking on it for a bit(not emotionally cheating on your wife, if it's there,end it with one or the other) and deciding what you want,where you see yourself in a few years(even if you're alone/single) and go from there. No one wants/needs to feel 'trapped' by children if no one is really happy. Hell..maybe your wife will find the man of her dreams if you leave? Who knows...see how that circles back to the unknown? You seem like a smart guy..Just do the right thing and don't be a **** about it. Know,though..you have/need to 100% own your decision.

[road]

Coming home from work is not how to maintain bonds with a wife.

 

Sharing recreational times with your wife is. Time to dump your

friends and make your wife your number 1 friend.

[standtall]

Tough s***. You swore an oath and signed a contract.

[somanymistakes]

It's very, very difficult to repair a marriage when a long-term temptation has crept into your heart.

 

You don't want to tell your wife the truth because it will hurt her. But as long as you are keeping secrets from your wife, you can't possibly rebuild the loving connection that you miss. Keeping barriers between the two of you, thinking of her only as someone to protect and not someone to share with and lean on, thinking of her as a burden you have to carry... that does not lead to a strong marriage.

 

First off, I don't know what country you're in, but you need to do a little research about what the custody situation is really like. Not just your fears of the worst-case scenario. I know a lot of people who get carried away by rumors and think they will lose their kid forever because they've heard gossip about how unfair things are for men... and yet when they finally go to court they get 50/50 or more. The horror stores are usually rare and not how things are always. It depends on where you live, of course, but DO get information from a broader range than just some guy friend telling you about how fathers have no rights. You need to know what the risks really are.

 

You probably are being somewhat misled by chemicals. It's hard not to be. Exciting and new will always be more tempting than "we ran out of things to talk about years ago". It is possible that if you cut off all contact with your new interest and really dug into rebuilding things with your wife, that you would manage to be happy again. Especially if she's not really doing anything wrong, she's not stopping you from pursuing your interests or denying you affection or anything like that.

 

The most likely way to overturn your current infatuation is for a short sharp shock to make your brain suddenly realise how much it has to lose... IF, deep down, you really do love your wife and family and don't want to go as much as you think you do.

 

My suggestion:

Do some research to find out what divorce would actually involve, and what the various outcomes regarding children may be.

Then grit your teeth, prepare for the pain, and tell your wife that you have feelings for someone else and are considering divorce.

 

IT WILL HURT. It will hurt both of you. It will not be easy. But you have to go through that pain to figure out what you really want. If leaving is what you truly want, you have to hurt her eventually. If leaving isn't what your heart-of-hearts wants, then working through the pain together might save your marriage.

 

You owe her honesty and trust. You owe her the chance to have a say in what happens. She is an adult and your partner, don't treat her like a child.

[Marc878]

Limerence doesn't last long.

 

You're about blow your family up for this?

 

If you're smart you'll cut this off completely and go a solid NC and reconnect with your wife and family.

 

What if your wife was doing what you are.

 

Better wake up

[ambiv123]

Thank you very much for the replies. It’s helpful to get outside my own head for a change.

 

I mentioned that I’ve been carrying this for over 6 months and during that time I’ve tried a few things to try and keep myself objective about the situation. I am trying to avoid thinking lightly, and I have considered the effects on my child. After much research I have come to the conclusion that divorce is not necessarily damaging itself, but how the parents deal with it and their relationship afterwards to one another matters. I am confident I can continue to make my child happy outside of a nuclear family.

 

I neglected to mention that I have spoken to a lawyer and was told that, while joint custody is not legal after divorce, many couples stay married and live separately to work around this archaic law. To avoid losing my legal rights that would seem to be the only option. Ultimately though it is dependent on working things out with my wife. The worst case scenario can happen, but if I’m honest, if I ever was unfairly cut out of my child’s life then divorce would have been the right option.

 

Somany- thank you for the detailed reply. This is what I have feared. Cutting off my friend at this point doesn’t seem like it will help much, apart from maybe cooling off that relationship, and I’ve been as careful as I can to draw a line so far. I can’t unsee things, so to speak, and even if I were to work hard on my relationship I know in the back of my mind the ‘what if’ will remain forever. My dilemma is deciding which path is less likely to lead to regret and unhappiness.

 

As much as I think I still may be misled by emotions, objectively I can say that I never enjoyed conversation and company this much when I first met my wife. We just couldn’t have that level or variety of conversation due to differing interests. I suppose this is what bothers me. I completely understand that most people in this situation just trade one set of problems for another, but it saddens me in that even the rational, logical side of me seems to see a better match in my friend.

 

As you say, some part of me knows it’s going to be very, very hard to undo that discovery, and honestly I question why I would want to. Is saving a marriage so important as to choose a lesser happiness? Is self-sacrifice of my selfish desires and urge to take a risk ultimately what will bring me happiness, even if that is many years away and I cannot see it?

[justanotheroneofyou]

I wrote about this elsewhere.

 

All of that deep conversation and stuff--it will turn to "blah", too. I assure you of that.

 

My husband and I and many of our academic friends share sub- specialties; i.e., not only do we have PhDs, we have them in the same niche field.

 

Snooze. Yes--that sustained us for quite a while and the perks crop up here and there. So does everyday life. That pesky thing (life) often renders those theoretically through-provoking conversations dead. Bills, mortgages, children, scholarships, ex-husband, kids from the first marriage, shared kid, finances--they replace that exhilarating and heady talk. What you are seeing and experiencing is limerance and/or the stuff you see in the movies. Mark my words--it won't last. Because of what I do and the people by whom I'm surrounded (we are spread out because of our profession), I can say that it doesn't last. Life takes over. Your deep conversations are taking place in a vacuum/bubble--they will be pushed aside.

 

In fact, one of my great friends used to complain that his wife was outside of our intellectual capacity and he wished he were in our position(s) [he was talking to a group of us] and had married someone in the field. Nah. It's the same, buddy.

 

I'm not going to lie. It's nice to be married to someone who is highly intelligent, articulate, and shares the same interests and political views (as well as a general disdain for religion, blah blah blah). But, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

 

You shouldn't marry someone way outside of your league intelligence-wise, but, these common interests will not be the rudiment of your relationship.

 

Work on things at home. If you must get divorced because you feel the grass is greener and all of that, start with a clean slate.

 

Or, ignore all the advice and find out the hard way when all the excitement dies down.

Edited February 20, 2018 by justanotheroneofyou

[ambiv123]

Justanother - thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

I have read about this sort of thing before and am aware it’s likely to happen. I agree with you that any future relationships should be considered from a clean slate. I’m trying my best to think objectively and consider what makes a good relationship, but denying the influence this other girl has had would be self-defeating because it has caused me to question what I want from a relationship.

 

If we assume what you say is true, that all fun and deep conversations will eventually die even with this other girl, then what are we left with when choosing a life partner?

 

You say being married to someone who is highly intelligent and shares the same interests is nice, but that it ultimately doesn’t matter. If that’s the case, what qualities would you recommend I look for in a partner when trying to decide what will bring the most fulfilling life?

[somanymistakes]

No, deep conversations do not inevitably turn to blah in every relationship!

 

Expecting that relationships are always doomed to fail no mattter what so you may as well just suck it up and deal is not healthy.

 

However, the real problem is that when you're in the butterflies phase with someone, everything about them IS more exciting than it would otherwise be. Some of that will, inevitably, wear off, in every single relationship. It will always dim down from what it was. And as part of that, often you find out that your partner is not exactly who you thought they were during that butterflies phase.

 

MANY people, for example, find out that their partner is not as kinky, or not as into sex in general, as they appeared to be during that early phase. Because back then chemicals were running high and you both wanted each other so badly, so sex drives were higher. That doesn't always last. In the same way, when you're in the early attraction phases you may find EVERYTHING about your new partner fascinating. All their interests seem really cool and exciting and you want to share them and talk about them. That may wear off - a few years later you may discover that actually you're not that interested in playing bridge and she's not that interested in talking about golf. Or whatever.

 

You can't fairly compare a new attraction against a long-term relationship because you don't know where the new one will go.

 

 

As for what makes the most fulfilling life, well, that varies. Some people find it easiest and best to compartmentalise - a spouse for sharing and emotional support, a friend for shared interests and conversation - but as you know that kind of compartmentalising can easily lead into attractions and affairs.

[Peacemaker1]

Hi ambiv123,

Before you think about divorce, have you considered that you may be starting a cycle that can repeat over and over? If you leave your wife, this thing can happen again to you with a new woman. Or this woman you are infatuated with can also leave you at some point. The reason marriages break up is that people today do not fully understand it. We see couples in movies having casual sex and in the ending everyone is happy. But they don’t show the broken families and all the other damages left behind. Marriage is a contract, where your primary obligation is to be faithful to your spouse. Imagine for a moment 10 frames of photographs. On the first one you see this beautiful girl smile at you. On frame 2 you get a second look, admiring her beautiful skin, her hair, etc. At the 4th frame, you go out and on the 10th frame you have sex. It is natural for us to admire beauty. It is also natural for men to desire every few women that they see. This is where marriage comes in. You already made your choice otherwise it will never stop because there are so many beautiful and engaging women out there. When you’re married, you don’t go to the second frame. You stop the desire on its track. Earlier generations understand this and so many people uphold this commitment. Sign up with other help forums and add to your research the broken marriages and regrets out there. To get rid of a bad habit, replace it with a good habit. Consider changing your situation where you don’t see this woman as often and focus on your family.

[Peacemaker1]

I meant, If you leave your wife and live with this woman, this thing can happen again to you with a third woman (at tome time later).

[justanotheroneofyou]

Perhaps I am over-dramatizing by saying everything turns to "blah." I simply mean that when the mundanity arrives on the scene and starts to push aside the hot, endless night, you might feel differently. The rose on the rose colored glasses will fade away.

 

I have other problems--sure, but I can definitely tell you, even though we once talked for hours and hours about our work, it was replaced by talking about the mundane things. Sure, those talks happen once and a while, but it's not all that and nothing else, like it is during your affair.

[BarbedFenceRider]

So, you are starting to see what you want in a relationship. Ever think about telling your wife what you are wanting? Maybe look into building that with the 2 of you?

 

It could be some of the best experiences of your life....

[justanotheroneofyou]

sometimes that can't be arranged (getting someone on-board with you). I know in my case, I'm just as intelligent and successful as my husband, but he is so obsessed by our field that he pours every ounce of blood, sweat, and tears into it. He knows it in and out, like no one's business, and, frankly, it's pretty annoying to be in a marriage with someone so obsessed with Dead White Men. He couldn't get me on board if he tried and I'm not exactly dim-witted; I don't slavishly and exclusively devote my life to deciphering antiquated texts. I have better things to do. If he decides to go the way of the OP and think that the grass is greener on the other side when he meets some woman who thinks about this stuff like he does, he can have at it. I'll make sure to make his life pleasant as he goes on.

[ambiv123]

Somany, justanother - thanks for the replies. I've waited 6 months or so to try and avoid being misled by butterflies. To an extent it has helped - I mentioned I've had arguments with this other girl, and I recognize (she herself has said) she has a bunch of self esteem issues and there are some about her that bother me. I take that as some sort of validation that I'm not just seeing things through rosy glasses, but at the same time, because we see each other so little, when we do meet I'm sure things must be more fun than if we were living together experiencing the mediocrities of life.

 

So in short - I agree with you that I can't really compare one newer relationship with another much older, but it seems reasonable to say there must be a point where I can do that, right? I suppose what I'm asking is, how can I be sure I'm out of the butterfly phase and seeing things as objectively as possible? Do I wait a year? 2 years? 3 years?

 

On another (men's) forum, I've been basically told to cut off all ties with the friend, focus on rebuilding the connection in my marriage for 6 months and if it doesn't work to divorce and wait a year. Objectively speaking, I agree that would be the safest strategy, but I must be honest in that I don't want to cut this friend out of my life completely for such a long time. I can count the number of truly close friends whom I can open up to completely on one hand, and it's been close to 15 years since I've met someone I feel this connected to. The only others are a couple of guy friends from childhood, and of course my wife after building up a relationship. I regularly meet new people and have many 'friends' but those special kind of relationships where you're able to share your deepest fears and insecurities - those are so rare that I don't want to lose this new person.

 

It's probably obvious, but just in case, I think you've realized that I'm not just thinking with my pants. I've never had a problem avoiding getting into complicated relationships based on physical attraction, and I've managed to restrain myself from taking things further with this girl, even though we both wanted to, wary of the increased problems that it would bring. I knew this girl for a year or so before the 'click', and it wasn't because she's really hot. But she's cute enough to make this attraction more than platonic. Put another way, if she were a guy I would have a new best friend. I have considered I might have more of a female brain than male, at least in regards to these issues, because it's really the emotional bond that is issue. I have zero desire to have a short-term fling or fun times on the side. I want to commit to one situation or the other to stop the ambivalence, because let's be honest - I can't see a happy ending where both girls are in my life and equally as important to me. I can't see my wife comfortable with that.

 

Peacemaker, BarbedFence - thanks for weighing in. I really appreciate the time everyone is giving to helping me think about this.

 

I am very aware that this could be the beginning of a cycle I do not want to get into. Equally, I have a horrible realization in the pit of my stomach that, if this girl is able to fall for me and cheat on her boyfriend, that it may happen again in any potential future between us. That goes both ways though - from her point of view what sort of guy am I to allow myself to get into this situation despite having a wife and child? I have no way for comforting myself in this knowledge, and must accept that I am a lesser person now because of it.

 

I can only say that, in my heart I would hate for my life to become a series of revolving doors. I still cling to the romantic notion of a partner for life, but that illusion has shattered and I'm increasingly depressed that perhaps as human beings we aren't made for lifelong monogamy. That's why I want more than anything to affirm that this situation is 'unique' and that I have something genuine that isn't just based on butterflies and chemicals. Statistically I made as well just give up pursuing happiness at all and settle for mediocrity. The likelihood of things working out are not good, and my rational side knows it. But what's the point of life if it isn't fun?

 

I have spoken to my wife and a recent conversation finally brought up divorce, despite not intending to go that far yet. She didn't react well, despite having a few talks over the past months 'warning' her about my dissatisfaction in the hope we could talk openly about it as adults. I explained that my feelings for her had lessened, and I can't see a future with her clearly anymore, especially doing thought experiments after our child is grown (I did not mention the other girl as I know that would probably kill any chance of calm, reasonable conversation). She wants a settled life and is happy to put family first and put our relationship on the back burner for the next 15 years to focus on that (although she recognizes my need to have our relationship as adults at least equal to the family unit and is willing to work on it). She is okay with allowing me to pursue my interests and wants to support me in her own way, but right now I'm craving a partner I can explore those interests with directly.

 

She desperately wants a second child as a sibling, and I did want that at one point, but now I don't. I increasingly see myself single again and free to experience the world (although I would put our child first before going after selfish pursuits). I explained I care for her deeply, but that the reality is whenever we talk of doing things together or we try new activities, I'm not excited or happy because I'm doing it with her. When we think of travel together (one of the things we bonded over when we met), I increasingly want to go places and do things she doesn't, to the extent of taking some time to myself when we travel overseas. Getting back to the excitement and connection we had at the start would be ideal and the least messy way to deal with this, but some efforts between us over the last few months haven't made the situation better.

 

Right now she won't entertain any sort of alternative arrangement in marriage. In her mind if my feelings have disappeared, the family unit ends and we would need to 'fight' (her words) over our child and living arrangements. I live in hope that it was just emotional outburst and intend to talk more again to figure out if we can work through this amicably. Perhaps go to counselling and do more research. I don't know if I can cure the doubt that has ripped a hole in my heart though. And I can't give up parental rights just because I'm not as happy in my relationship anymore - I would 100% lose in a divorce (joint custody not legal in this country), so separation while remaining married is the only alternative solution in my mind. I have no desire to marry again anytime soon anyway. If it comes down to divorce or nothing, I fear will have to just grit my teeth and settle for being unhappy for the next couple of decades .

 

Sorry again for the long reply.

Edited February 21, 2018 by ambiv123

[Still_Here]

I read your story and your replies. I'm sad for you because I think you are in a place where you are going to rationalize what you want no matter what, and not fully understand the consequences until its far too late.

 

I'm speaking from experience, unfortunately. Identical experience. Please take a second, pause, and try to understand this from an outside perspective the best you can, as impossible as it may seam. I was you.

 

Here's the thing, I had many people in my life who were me at some point, and pleaded with me to stop the emotional/physical affair. For me to trust in them that I was caught up in it, and that one day I will be in a life I didn't want. A much harder life, a sad life.

 

And what did I do in my ambivalence? I justified what I wanted. I validated it to myself over and over...until it was too late. I had so many chances to stop, fix my head and my life, yet I just couldn't do it, even when I knew I should deep down.

 

So I ignored everyone and everything, their pleas, their wisdom. Then one day, I wish so much that I didn't.

 

The way you are agonizing and overthinking I feel its inevitable that you are going to ruin your life.

 

Do me a favor, in 6 months, a year, 3 years..whenever you wake up and realize how badly you messed up your life, send me a message. For both of us I can only hope that by that point I'll be at peace and acceptance and be able to offer you some sound advice.

[justanotheroneofyou]

Listen to Still_Here.

 

You are going to commit the classic "jump ship" act. No one here will convince you to do otherwise. I know no one could convince me otherwise when I was going to do what I was going to do--in any area, not just relationships. Your judgment is clouded by hormones, which makes it even worse.

 

You are projecting so much and the let down will be even harder when she is no longer magical. Something you said earlier signaled a red flag for me. You alluded to her being "cute enough." I am not saying every woman has to be drop-dead gorgeous, but it seems like you are "settling" before even beginning. Justifying.

 

I guess we can't stress enough that this exhilarating engagement and this deep intellectualism and/or abiding common interests are likely going to be fleeting.

 

Factor in the dissipation of teenage-like hormones, her "cute" appearance, at best, mediocre, at worst, and the main fact of the matter: you aren't coming into this with a clean slate by any means. Dealing with an ex and a child can harsh anyone's mellow, even in a best case scenario.

 

I know it's been a rough ten years + for me with the custody thing. There were so many close calls with going back to court, spending tens of thousands there, and fighting about everything. No one is a happy camper in these situations. Our situation was worse because we had religion in the matter and I had to fight fundamentalism (still doing that and she's 18).

 

These days (and I'm guilty of this myself), our expectations about marriage, partners, fidelity, excitement, and passion, have been groomed by a mixture of Disney, romance movies, and, well, most of all, porn. We expect what our ancestors (for most of human history) didn't think twice about. We think we "deserve" that perfect experience, courtship, whirlwind romance, that will result in us holding hands on the beach in our senior years. That stuff is confined to the movies. We now outlive monogamy, by far--scientifically and otherwise--but many of us try to abide by this since it is a social norm, and not a horrible one. I'm sure there's a few couples in the proverbial haystack that live like Romeo and Juliet (maybe that's not a good example), but who are best friends, perfect in the sack, have eyes for no one but each other, blah, blah, blah. That is so rare. Science and biology have taught us that newness is key for human arousal and excitement. Want to reinvigorate your partner? Get a different hairstyle, wear a cologne, perfume, or even an outfit that takes him or her back to a different time, wear a new pair of glasses, do something that makes you look smart, etc. These all tell the brain that there's something new and exciting going on.

 

Your marriage seems typical, if ho-hum. I don't mean to be rude, but you seem spoiled and high maintenance in thinking you deserve to be excited and titillated constantly. This may repeat itself.

 

Can I ask you? Is she way below your intelligence level? If so, I can see why that's a problem.

 

Anyway.

 

You may visit this board sometime in the future. I hope you take the opportunity to reach out to others who have asked you to do that. Of course, I don't wish you ill--I also don't think you are thinking with your pants down. I do think, however, that you've convinced yourself the grass and greener, etc., and you are awash in hormones right now, so it's bliss.

Edited February 22, 2018 by justanotheroneofyou

[ambiv123]

Still Here, Justanother, thank you for sharing.

 

Okay, so you've convinced me that despite my best efforts so far, I'm still clouded by hormones and not seeing things clearly, so I don't want to rush a decision without a personal clarity first and the absolute confidence that, even if I end up alone, it will make me happier than now. Let's assume the other girl is not in the picture and there's no chance anything would happen. Let's just focus on me being married vs. me being a single dad.

 

Still Here - You said you had many chances to stop and fix your head and you knew deep down (gut?) you should. Why didn't you do it and what would you recommend I do to at least try that first? Also, if you feel happy telling me, why do you regret your decision? Were you not completely sure of yourself when you made it?

 

I would be incredibly grateful if you could share suggestions for things I can do to better 'fix my head'. Who else should I reach out to? What other forums/posts would I do well to read? How can I be free of hormones in order to really decide what I want for myself in life? (Sorry if this means repeating something said before).

 

Justanother - in answer to your question about intellectual compatibility. I studied Philosophy and this other girl goes deep like that. I enjoy that we can talk about bigger issues and debate. My wife is understandably caught up in the day-to-day of raising our child while I'm at work, but even when we started dating we never had those kinds of conversations, and I can't exactly ask her change her personality. My wife tries when I raise such topics, but I'm never caused to think or surprised by her thoughts. Interesting (to me) conversation about life, society, psychology, politics (etc) simply does not flow anywhere near like it does with this other girl. Put bluntly, my wife doesn't really seem to have many strong ideas or opinions of her own. Will that flowing, interesting conversation really disappear with time..? My only point of reference is that conversation with my wife has not really changed over the years.

 

This other girl has caused me to challenge some of my fundamental beliefs and attitudes and as a result I've grown as a person and become more open minded. Emotional intelligence on the other hand, both of them are mature and considerate and I often find myself grateful for this support and criticism of my own shortcomings.

 

The other girl is not perfect, both physically and in personality, I'm quite aware of that. In a way I considered that might be a validation that I'm not completely misled by hormones... It simply boils down to this: I currently want to spend more time with her than with my wife, and that makes me feel guilty because it violates the marriage contract I agreed to (or would make my wife unhappy). It makes me sad to admit it, but I don't find myself wanting to give up this newfound happiness in order to honor that contract, and I wonder, doesn't that say huge things about my (lack of) love for my wife..?

 

********

 

I know I've taken a lot of your time already, so please don't feel obliged to read, but here are my current thoughts on marriage:

 

I do not personally think honoring the contract of marriage is good if it does not bring happiness (was raised as a Christian and became agnostic, for reference). With work I probably could be reasonably happy in marriage (the business side of it like money and chores is more or less okay, sex was okay too), but the fact is I would probably need other relationships on the side to fulfill my emotional desires because my wife and I don't share the enough of the same interests/conversations, and that's what led me to start to like someone else in the first place, quite by accident.

 

As a result, I want to do something that society says I shouldn't. I have a natural, biological urge, and pursuing it would make me happy, however brief, but I'm forcing myself to suppress it due to social norms and morals. That just isn't healthy, and it's the cause of me being torn apart. If everyone involved were happy with this situation I wouldn't even be writing here. But it's an unlikely fantasy and I know it.

 

At the same time, marriage and monogamy were instilled upon us as ideals for a reason - ostensibly because it makes us happy. But are those reasons really in the best interests of us as individuals, or are they actually there to effect a measure of control that benefits organizing mass groups of animals to minimize chaos? A rule forces everyone to behave the same way, on the assumption that everyone is alike or needs the same thing, and we know that's false because there is no one-size-fits-all. Most people never even question the sanctity of marriage (I didn't until the illusion of being 'in love' forever was broken for me) and work to uphold it at all costs.

 

I have no reservations now about changing the contract, for the right reasons, if it will lead to a more fulfilling life. It sounds very selfish to write it this way, but please remember that I do not want to hurt people unnecessarily and I intend to honor my responsibilities for those dependent on me. Ultimately though, I guess I feel each one of us must be responsible for our own happiness in life and that self-sacrifice on a long-term and life-altering scale is probably not how we will best flourish as human beings.

 

Ultimately it's now a question of finding out what happiness looks like after my existing belief system has been shattered. Perhaps serial monogamy leads to the most fulfilled life? Perhaps polyamory? Perhaps being alone and never committing to any one person? Maybe marriage really is the best way forward. Whatever the answer, I'm no longer able to just accept lifelong monogamy/marriage is the answer in itself without looking deeper. I'm searching to know myself.

Edited February 22, 2018 by ambiv123