Your thoughts on meeting interesting women?

[EveningEmbers]

I have been generally ok with meeting women and building a rapport with them. Yet, my biggest challenge is meeting someone who is interesting and not unusually insecure. To put things into perspective, I work in a technical field, but my passion for photography has allowed me to meet alot of different and generally attractive women. Despite attraction from some of these women, most of them are the conflicted, artistic type that prove to be very complicated, emotional, and just full of insecurities that make them very dramatic and poor choices for a partner.

 

And so, I decided to explore other ways to meet women. Recently, speed dating was one such avenue that I tried.

 

The first speed dating event I went to was last month. I came back with one match with whom I met for coffee later. That girl was a mystery though, as she refused to exchange phone numbers and asked that I respect that (I did). She emailed me a week after the first date to enthusiastically invite me out to skating, but also promptly emailed me back to cancel two days later, saying she is not suitable for me, and wished me the best. Very strange.

 

This past week, I went to my second event with little expectations, but came back with 2 of my 3 picks as a mutual match. I was excited about this, and have already setup a date with one of the girls. I am not outcome-dependent, but the oddity that was the previous girl makes me quite confused on what to do or expect for the upcoming dates.

 

At the end of the day, the bigger picture is trying to find my place and understand the best way to meet interesting women who aren't overly dramatic or hung up on self-image issues, etc. My general feeling about women in online dating or those who participate in speed dating are busy professionals/students, socially-awkward people, people who work in specialized jobs with little interaction, or people who have problems locking down a quality, long term relationship (or simply don't want one). And let's be honest, none of those are desirable qualities in a partner. Would love to hear your thoughts.

[BaileyB]

Welcome to the wonderful world of dating.

 

Well, as an "interesting woman" who does not consider myself to be overly insecure, I will say that dating was just as much a mystery to me for many years.

 

Coincidently, I met my boyfriend at a speed dating event. Going to the event, I had the same opinion of many of the men there, that many would be busy professionals who were socially awkward. What I learned was there are all types there - I talked with a wonderful woman who was a physician, beautiful, well travelled, very interesting... I have no idea why she was single and attending a dating event. I met men who were very interesting to talk with and others who couldn't hold a conversation...

 

Dating is simply a numbers game. You literally have to be in right place at the right time to meet that special someone. I attended the speed dating event as an impulse, and had I not gone that night I would never have met my guy (even though we live five minutes away). And of course, the old adage is very true... You have to kiss a lot of frogs... Don't lose heart, I hope you find someone who makes you excited about dating very soon.

[Versacehottie]

I have been generally ok with meeting women and building a rapport with them. Yet, my biggest challenge is meeting someone who is interesting and not unusually insecure. To put things into perspective, I work in a technical field, but my passion for photography has allowed me to meet alot of different and generally attractive women. Despite attraction from some of these women, most of them are the conflicted, artistic type that prove to be very complicated, emotional, and just full of insecurities that make them very dramatic and poor choices for a partner.

 

And so, I decided to explore other ways to meet women. Recently, speed dating was one such avenue that I tried.

 

The first speed dating event I went to was last month. I came back with one match with whom I met for coffee later. That girl was a mystery though, as she refused to exchange phone numbers and asked that I respect that (I did). She emailed me a week after the first date to enthusiastically invite me out to skating, but also promptly emailed me back to cancel two days later, saying she is not suitable for me, and wished me the best. Very strange.

 

This past week, I went to my second event with little expectations, but came back with 2 of my 3 picks as a mutual match. I was excited about this, and have already setup a date with one of the girls. I am not outcome-dependent, but the oddity that was the previous girl makes me quite confused on what to do or expect for the upcoming dates.

 

At the end of the day, the bigger picture is trying to find my place and understand the best way to meet interesting women who aren't overly dramatic or hung up on self-image issues, etc. My general feeling about women in online dating or those who participate in speed dating are busy professionals/students, socially-awkward people, people who work in specialized jobs with little interaction, or people who have problems locking down a quality, long term relationship (or simply don't want one). And let's be honest, none of those are desirable qualities in a partner. Would love to hear your thoughts.

 

Generally it sounds like you are doing the right things. I especially like that you are doing the photography thing, which you love anyway, and it is a numbers game and not all photography types are conflicted messes. I mean, you aren't, are you? LOL

 

I do hear a touch of being super picky, maybe overly closed off in between the lines of what you wrote with the generalizations about the girls you meet through photography and the ones you meet through speed dating. Try to drop the preconceived notions about what type of people are in these environments so you can be open. Again, you are at speed dating, and you are normal, right? Try to think of the reasons why you would go. Like you said, you work in a technical field. I'd assume that you don't meet many women there if that's your job. Maybe conversely the girls at a speed dating event have the same problem--that there are few guys where they work and spend their free time. I've definitely known people where that is exactly their "problem" and it's not really for any character reason that they have struggled to meet guys or girls. I also think maybe people do speed dating because it's better suited to their age range or that they don't like drinking and bars so are limited with socializing that way--those might be reasons that you don't mind.

 

Yes, it could be true some of the negative reasons that you think a girl would be speed dating. But try not to focus on it. That closes you off to good people and limits your experience. Also try not to extrapolate ONE bad dating experience (the previous girl from speed dating who was flakey and wouldn't give you her number--she sounds weird or unsure about you--so what you don't need someone like that) and apply it to all future possibilities. In a way, you need to LEARN from these one time events but LET THEM GO so that you can have a clean slate and success with next dating interaction.

 

I think you should do online or a dating app too. Why not? On one hand, you need to take into account that is how a large majority of people are finding dates. And then get good at filtering out the ones you want to date. You sound like an introspective guy with a good perspective generally so keep doing that and think of dating as a series of experiences since it is a numbers game to get to the right one. Good luck

[smackie9]

There are dating sites that are specific for professionals/higher educated people. Look there.

[losangelena]

Despite attraction from some of these women, most of them are the conflicted, artistic type that prove to be very complicated, emotional, and just full of insecurities that make them very dramatic and poor choices for a partner.

 

Can you explain what you mean by this, OP? Because already this year I have dealt with two men who are conflicted, flim-flammy, flakey, complicated, non-communicative, and who tend to equivocate. Just pointing out that this is hardly a gendered issue and insecurity and drama go both ways.

[EveningEmbers]

Can you explain what you mean by this, OP? Because already this year I have dealt with two men who are conflicted, flim-flammy, flakey, complicated, non-communicative, and who tend to equivocate. Just pointing out that this is hardly a gendered issue and insecurity and drama go both ways.

 

The very nature of my passion with photography brings me in touch with women who tend to use this avenue as a means of validating their beauty and confidence. As vain as it sounds, I have met some very emotionally stable and interesting women who simply enjoy art, but are not seeking validation. That is quite rare though.

 

A lot of these women tend to be younger (early 20s), have some form of self-image issues that makes them feel unattractive, been bullied previously by peers, and are spiteful at the world, among various other issues.

 

Every circumstance will be different, and relationships are always a two-way-street that involves both you and the other person. I can't speak to why the two men you met are incommunicative or flakey, but those behaviours could point to someone who is either very disinterested, or, at the other extreme, someone who is does not feel confident enough to justify to himself that they deserve you.

[EveningEmbers]

There are dating sites that are specific for professionals/higher educated people. Look there.

 

Do you have any that you recommend?

 

I have used the usual free dating sites before, along with a few paid ones.

 

The free ones never gave me quality matches, and simply let women focus on a man's looks way too much to be favourable. It feels almost like a beauty contest, with the swipe left and swipe right system that most of them use these days.

 

The problem with the paid ones was that they slowly trickle your matches to you to ensure that you are continuing to subscribe to them monthly, so all-in-all a very slow process with too much time spent exchanging messages back and forth per the matching system that they enforce.

[EveningEmbers]

Welcome to the wonderful world of dating.

 

Well, as an "interesting woman" who does not consider myself to be overly insecure, I will say that dating was just as much a mystery to me for many years.

 

Coincidently, I met my boyfriend at a speed dating event. Going to the event, I had the same opinion of many of the men there, that many would be busy professionals who were socially awkward. What I learned was there are all types there - I talked with a wonderful woman who was a physician, beautiful, well travelled, very interesting... I have no idea why she was single and attending a dating event. I met men who were very interesting to talk with and others who couldn't hold a conversation...

 

Dating is simply a numbers game. You literally have to be in right place at the right time to meet that special someone. I attended the speed dating event as an impulse, and had I not gone that night I would never have met my guy (even though we live five minutes away). And of course, the old adage is very true... You have to kiss a lot of frogs... Don't lose heart, I hope you find someone who makes you excited about dating very soon.

 

Thank you for sharing that!

 

I will try my best to be open-minded. Speed dating has proven to be mostly fun, and even if it was awkward with some women, they only lasted 5 minutes each.

 

Generally speaking, I tend to spend a lot of time exploring my own hobbies and learning. I know this does not help me meet women because aside from my long hours at work, I rarely find myself out and about. This is something I am trying to change this year to try to get myself out of the house more by finding more activities that I enjoy (and hopefully meet women who have similar interests).

Edited February 25, 2018 by EveningEmbers

[Chilli]

Hang on , l'll rephrase that .

You look for depth in her face, depth is easy to spot especially on a date site where she also says stuff so ya got two big things right there to go on straight off the bat,

 

Good luck

Edited February 25, 2018 by Chilli

[EveningEmbers]

Generally it sounds like you are doing the right things. I especially like that you are doing the photography thing, which you love anyway, and it is a numbers game and not all photography types are conflicted messes. I mean, you aren't, are you? LOL

 

I do hear a touch of being super picky, maybe overly closed off in between the lines of what you wrote with the generalizations about the girls you meet through photography and the ones you meet through speed dating. Try to drop the preconceived notions about what type of people are in these environments so you can be open. Again, you are at speed dating, and you are normal, right? Try to think of the reasons why you would go. Like you said, you work in a technical field. I'd assume that you don't meet many women there if that's your job. Maybe conversely the girls at a speed dating event have the same problem--that there are few guys where they work and spend their free time. I've definitely known people where that is exactly their "problem" and it's not really for any character reason that they have struggled to meet guys or girls. I also think maybe people do speed dating because it's better suited to their age range or that they don't like drinking and bars so are limited with socializing that way--those might be reasons that you don't mind.

 

Yes, it could be true some of the negative reasons that you think a girl would be speed dating. But try not to focus on it. That closes you off to good people and limits your experience. Also try not to extrapolate ONE bad dating experience (the previous girl from speed dating who was flakey and wouldn't give you her number--she sounds weird or unsure about you--so what you don't need someone like that) and apply it to all future possibilities. In a way, you need to LEARN from these one time events but LET THEM GO so that you can have a clean slate and success with next dating interaction.

 

I think you should do online or a dating app too. Why not? On one hand, you need to take into account that is how a large majority of people are finding dates. And then get good at filtering out the ones you want to date. You sound like an introspective guy with a good perspective generally so keep doing that and think of dating as a series of experiences since it is a numbers game to get to the right one. Good luck

 

You are right that I am super picky. It is a combination of me trying my best to be honest with what I want, and having met some very attractive women via photography. I am not vain or fixated on physical beauty and would rather find an average looking but sweet girl. And, this is perhaps one of my problems too - I have decided to not pursue some women that were interested in me because I could not convince myself that I was more attracted to her than her current guy. Although this keeps me honest with what I want, it also prevents me from opening myself up to potentially great relationships.

 

Dating apps typically do not work well for me because most of the women who are attracted to me in real life like my personality and drive a lot, which never comes across in online dating. My friend, on the other hand, who is unbelievably good looking, has a lot of luck with women online as it is a primarily visual platform. His problem is that he depends a lot on the validation he receives from women to feel happy, to the extreme that he would call me half a dozen times a day to express his displeasure and anger with every little "negative" thing that a woman would say or do to him.

 

A woman I met via photography a few months ago completely captivated me when we met, almost like a type of witchcraft. Unfortunately, I later learned that she was working on many self-image issues and was extremely closed-off, fearful that others would discover her problems and further reject her and perpetuate her insecurities even more. This is actually the same woman who woke me up from several years of simply pursuing my passions and being out of the dating scene.

[Popsicle]

I agree with the above statement that you have to get out and do things where women will be present. That might mean going outside of your usual hobbies and interests. I need to do the same actually. How do you feel about dating sites?

[EveningEmbers]

I agree with the above statement that you have to get out and do things where women will be present. That might mean going outside of your usual hobbies and interests. I need to do the same actually. How do you feel about dating sites?

 

From experience, the only dating site that worked for me were the paid ones, but it had proven to be very inorganic/unnatural as a means of meeting someone.

 

I have had some very career-oriented women who seemed happy on the surface, but were absolutely the opposite deep inside. One woman was strangely attracted to me despite a lack of time and reciprocation on my part. When finally I learned more about her, I understood that she just wanted any guy to be her partner because she felt undesirable and unattractive after many poor relationships, and was quickly approaching her mid-thirties and felt that she was running out of options. This was not uncommon among the women I met via online dating.

 

While I am a tall, decent looking guy, I am also not the type to work out 3 hours a day (I neither enjoy it, nor have an active interest in seeking it out), so I am on the slimmer side and do not have the muscle/physique to increase my attractiveness. On top of that, I tend to date outside of my own culture a lot, which makes it even more difficult on a primarily visual platform like online dating.

 

There was a time when I was totally comfortable with striking up conversations with women in public places, such as at the grocery store, the lineup at Starbucks, etc. I have gotten a few dates that way before, but it was a very short phase in my life and nothing materialized out of it. It is realizations like this that makes me as picky as I am, and also makes me feel like a lesser, less attractive version of my former self who had the courage, drive, and lack of fear of rejection that frustrates me. I believe that a combination of a lucrative but unfulfilling job, age, and a few good, supportive friends who have moved away have amounted to this.

[Popsicle]

From experience, the only dating site that worked for me were the paid ones, but it had proven to be very inorganic/unnatural as a means of meeting someone.

 

I have had some very career-oriented women who seemed happy on the surface, but were absolutely the opposite deep inside. One woman was strangely attracted to me despite a lack of time and reciprocation on my part. When finally I learned more about her, I understood that she just wanted any guy to be her partner because she felt undesirable and unattractive after many poor relationships, and was quickly approaching her mid-thirties and felt that she was running out of options. This was not uncommon among the women I met via online dating.

 

While I am a tall, decent looking guy, I am also not the type to work out 3 hours a day (I neither enjoy it, nor have an active interest in seeking it out), so I am on the slimmer side and do not have the muscle/physique to increase my attractiveness. On top of that, I tend to date outside of my own culture a lot, which makes it even more difficult on a primarily visual platform like online dating.

 

There was a time when I was totally comfortable with striking up conversations with women in public places, such as at the grocery store, the lineup at Starbucks, etc. I have gotten a few dates that way before, but it was a very short phase in my life and nothing materialized out of it. It is realizations like this that makes me as picky as I am, and also makes me feel like a lesser, less attractive version of my former self who had the courage, drive, and lack of fear of rejection that frustrates me. I believe that a combination of a lucrative but unfulfilling job, age, and a few good, supportive friends who have moved away have amounted to this.

 

I see.

 

I don't know how old you are, but how about going for women on the dating site in their mid-to-late twenties? They don't feel so rushed.

 

I was thinking more like joining groups that center around hobbies and interests. This is just an idea, but I think it's easier to connect with someone of the opposite gender when you can either see them more than once (or repeatedly) and have time to talk with them where you're not rushed off to part ways and do something else. This is why people often meet in bars! (not that I'm suggesting bars - well, only if you want to)

[EveningEmbers]

I see.

 

I don't know how old you are, but how about going for women on the dating site in their mid-to-late twenties? They don't feel so rushed.

 

I was thinking more like joining groups that center around hobbies and interests. This is just an idea, but I think it's easier to connect with someone of the opposite gender when you can either see them more than once (or repeatedly) and have time to talk with them where you're not rushed off to part ways and do something else. This is why people often meet in bars! (not that I'm suggesting bars - well, only if you want to)

 

I am in my early 30's. Believe me, most dating sites do not work for me. Only eHarmony has ever worked, but I like your groups idea much better as I try to spend less time with many back-and-forth messages with women whom I have yet to meet.

 

With me coordinating my photography projects and everyone I want in them, it's almost like a group activity. The problem is that each project takes considerable time to plan and produce, so it's not the best as a primary means of meeting women to date as I only have enough time to meet maybe 8 to 12 per year this way.

 

What are some groups that you have in mind?

 

Of course, other hobbies interest me, such as improv classes, etc. As an introspective guy who tries to find connection and meaning with every relationship, I am not a big fan of bars (and I don't enjoy alcohol much), nor am I very good at meeting women that way.

[NopeNah]

Speed datings always tripped me out,so I never did it. How does it work with different age groups? Are there like certain events by age? Not saying that age plays a part in some cases,but I know I really wouldn't want to sit across from someone my mothers age.

[mortensorchid]

You may as well ask what the meaning of life is while you're at it. If I knew the answers, I would tell you the answers. As I would for everyone and anyone whoever asks this question. All I can say is that life's complicated.

 

As for the examples that you sighted with this, well ... That's complicated as well. Unfortunately this is the world we live in. I often times wonder what our lives would be like if things like OLD and speed dating never happened. Where would we be today? OLD allows others to hide things about themselves to others, speed dating? Just watch that scene in the 40 Year Old Virgin and you'll be forever turned off by it. You might as well hang out by the public bathroom doors all day in an attempt to meet women (or men). But I digress ... Those you met in the OLD / speed dating examples are not worth your time or effort, as the majority of them are not worth anyone's time or effort. But you do OLD just because you can't think of any other means in which to meet others. And we end up disappointed in it. It's a lot of one time encounters or texting that goes no where, and you end up with a time waster.

 

Advice? I have none to give you as to what THE ANSWER is. It's what it is.

[Versacehottie]

You are right that I am super picky. It is a combination of me trying my best to be honest with what I want, and having met some very attractive women via photography. I am not vain or fixated on physical beauty and would rather find an average looking but sweet girl. And, this is perhaps one of my problems too - I have decided to not pursue some women that were interested in me because I could not convince myself that I was more attracted to her than her current guy. Although this keeps me honest with what I want, it also prevents me from opening myself up to potentially great relationships.

 

Dating apps typically do not work well for me because most of the women who are attracted to me in real life like my personality and drive a lot, which never comes across in online dating. My friend, on the other hand, who is unbelievably good looking, has a lot of luck with women online as it is a primarily visual platform. His problem is that he depends a lot on the validation he receives from women to feel happy, to the extreme that he would call me half a dozen times a day to express his displeasure and anger with every little "negative" thing that a woman would say or do to him.

 

A woman I met via photography a few months ago completely captivated me when we met, almost like a type of witchcraft. Unfortunately, I later learned that she was working on many self-image issues and was extremely closed-off, fearful that others would discover her problems and further reject her and perpetuate her insecurities even more. This is actually the same woman who woke me up from several years of simply pursuing my passions and being out of the dating scene.

 

Hmmm, ok I'm hearing you throw up excuses at every turn. Not as positive as I thought. The generalizations about this perfect for you girl you seek are not going to help you. You need REAL openness, which will mean setting some of your biases to the side.

 

About photography, I didn't take you for a guy that was interested or vice versa in those in front of the camera. I was thinking maybe another photographer or girl behind the scenes in photography--where you could bond over the artistry of that, similar passions or hobbies. Also the more a person is like YOU i think you will be more able to accept them. Even if that means they are like you more on the surface by what they choose to do with their time or level of education.

 

What i bolded is where you are on to something--something within yourself that will help you. As far as girls you meet on photo shoots that you have dismissed because they are involved with someone else--well that's a no brainer, they are involved with someone else so leave them alone and you don't seem like the type to have much respect for someone if they started something with you when they were still with someone else--so those are not viable matches for you and not the openness I'm talking about.

 

Ok what I bolded second, this is fine but why are you still stuck on it? She woke you up, ok but she is not miss perfect and has issues according to you, so let it go. Don't extrapolate, if that is what you are doing, and project this ONE experience onto future experiences. If I read between the lines, it sounds like you were highly physically attracted but not mentally attracted. So it's you that needs to rectify these things in your mind--both realizing that you might not find everything in one person but that you can find a better balance AND when it's the right person, somehow you will stop feeling so hypercritical. You will be just as physically attracted--if you let yourself--to someone in the future--you just have to believe she is out there and do the steps to find her. It's funny & ironic you say she was very closed off--have you thought that possibly people might say the same about you? Or that you are rigid?

 

About the dating apps, I hear you that it's not the best medium for some people. But you are missing out on an entire way that the majority of people meet each other for dating. Just like whoever you meet in real life, MOST people are not going to be for you. It's a serious sifting and filtering process. I can empathize with the fact that it may feel deflating when you are not getting a lot of attention and validation without a ton of effort while your friend or presumably others do easily. Don't make it your main way then or seek out the specific more helpful apps/sites. They are out there. My friend, who actually has a lot of the qualities you mention, is on this special dating app, that has something to do with people seeking high quality achievers of depth (she's Ivy league masters grad and it's invite only but you can get invited if you know someone else in that network--can't be that hard to figure out). To be 100% fair, EVEN IF you narrow it down to a more specific network, such as the more right app, the more fruitful places, you will still find that it's the exception rather than the majority of the people who will really be right for you (such as my friend on that app feels much more excitement about the guys she is matching with but she's still been hurt and still hasn't found her guy).

 

That is the conundrum of dating. You can either have fun, embrace the process and stay hopeful or be tortured every step of the way. The alternative, is that you can be someone who is too open, falling into relationships left and right with not bad people but not the right person for you--which is soooo not your problem! So take the positives and do the work.

[BaileyB]

Speed datings always tripped me out,so I never did it. How does it work with different age groups? Are there like certain events by age? Not saying that age plays a part in some cases,but I know I really wouldn't want to sit across from someone my mothers age.

 

It's totally grouped by age. You won't be sitting across from someone your mothers age...

 

Speed dating is exactly like OLD in that it provides you the opportunity to meet a large number of people that you wouldn't normally cross paths with... I preferred speed dating only because I would much prefer to meet someone in person and get a feel for who they are - you can't do that with OLD. But, of the 10 people you meet that night, there may only be 1-2 that you would really want to see again. Like everything, there is a wide cross section of people. And yes, 8 minutes can fly by if you happen to meet someone interesting or it can be the longest 8 minutes of your life... trying to make polite conversation with someone that you do not want to see again.

[EveningEmbers]

You may as well ask what the meaning of life is while you're at it. If I knew the answers, I would tell you the answers. As I would for everyone and anyone whoever asks this question. All I can say is that life's complicated.

 

As for the examples that you sighted with this, well ... That's complicated as well. Unfortunately this is the world we live in. I often times wonder what our lives would be like if things like OLD and speed dating never happened. Where would we be today? OLD allows others to hide things about themselves to others, speed dating? Just watch that scene in the 40 Year Old Virgin and you'll be forever turned off by it. You might as well hang out by the public bathroom doors all day in an attempt to meet women (or men). But I digress ... Those you met in the OLD / speed dating examples are not worth your time or effort, as the majority of them are not worth anyone's time or effort. But you do OLD just because you can't think of any other means in which to meet others. And we end up disappointed in it. It's a lot of one time encounters or texting that goes no where, and you end up with a time waster.

 

Advice? I have none to give you as to what THE ANSWER is. It's what it is.

 

That's all very true. I suppose that we just have to put ourselves out there and pursue different avenues to increase our chances in the vast sea out there.

[Popsicle]

It's totally grouped by age. You won't be sitting across from someone your mothers age...

 

Speed dating is exactly like OLD in that it provides you the opportunity to meet a large number of people that you wouldn't normally cross paths with... I preferred speed dating only because I would much prefer to meet someone in person and get a feel for who they are - you can't do that with OLD. But, of the 10 people you meet that night, there may only be 1-2 that you would really want to see again. Like everything, there is a wide cross section of people. And yes, 8 minutes can fly by if you happen to meet someone interesting or it can be the longest 8 minutes of your life... trying to make polite conversation with someone that you do not want to see again.

 

Speed dating sounds interesting to me. My friend asked me to go with her but what if we pick the same guy? That would be weird.

[EveningEmbers]

Speed dating sounds interesting to me. My friend asked me to go with her but what if we pick the same guy? That would be weird.

 

You may be thinking too far ahead

[Popsicle]

You may be thinking too far ahead

 

I have an active imagination when I'm bored.

Anyway, I think she's about to get a bf so maybe I'll go alone.

[EveningEmbers]

Hmmm, ok I'm hearing you throw up excuses at every turn. Not as positive as I thought. The generalizations about this perfect for you girl you seek are not going to help you. You need REAL openness, which will mean setting some of your biases to the side.

 

About photography, I didn't take you for a guy that was interested or vice versa in those in front of the camera. I was thinking maybe another photographer or girl behind the scenes in photography--where you could bond over the artistry of that, similar passions or hobbies. Also the more a person is like YOU i think you will be more able to accept them. Even if that means they are like you more on the surface by what they choose to do with their time or level of education.

 

What i bolded is where you are on to something--something within yourself that will help you. As far as girls you meet on photo shoots that you have dismissed because they are involved with someone else--well that's a no brainer, they are involved with someone else so leave them alone and you don't seem like the type to have much respect for someone if they started something with you when they were still with someone else--so those are not viable matches for you and not the openness I'm talking about.

 

Ok what I bolded second, this is fine but why are you still stuck on it? She woke you up, ok but she is not miss perfect and has issues according to you, so let it go. Don't extrapolate, if that is what you are doing, and project this ONE experience onto future experiences. If I read between the lines, it sounds like you were highly physically attracted but not mentally attracted. So it's you that needs to rectify these things in your mind--both realizing that you might not find everything in one person but that you can find a better balance AND when it's the right person, somehow you will stop feeling so hypercritical. You will be just as physically attracted--if you let yourself--to someone in the future--you just have to believe she is out there and do the steps to find her. It's funny & ironic you say she was very closed off--have you thought that possibly people might say the same about you? Or that you are rigid?

 

About the dating apps, I hear you that it's not the best medium for some people. But you are missing out on an entire way that the majority of people meet each other for dating. Just like whoever you meet in real life, MOST people are not going to be for you. It's a serious sifting and filtering process. I can empathize with the fact that it may feel deflating when you are not getting a lot of attention and validation without a ton of effort while your friend or presumably others do easily. Don't make it your main way then or seek out the specific more helpful apps/sites. They are out there. My friend, who actually has a lot of the qualities you mention, is on this special dating app, that has something to do with people seeking high quality achievers of depth (she's Ivy league masters grad and it's invite only but you can get invited if you know someone else in that network--can't be that hard to figure out). To be 100% fair, EVEN IF you narrow it down to a more specific network, such as the more right app, the more fruitful places, you will still find that it's the exception rather than the majority of the people who will really be right for you (such as my friend on that app feels much more excitement about the guys she is matching with but she's still been hurt and still hasn't found her guy).

 

That is the conundrum of dating. You can either have fun, embrace the process and stay hopeful or be tortured every step of the way. The alternative, is that you can be someone who is too open, falling into relationships left and right with not bad people but not the right person for you--which is soooo not your problem! So take the positives and do the work.

 

Thank you so much for sharing! I appreciate that.

 

Yes, the women that I often meet via photography are those who are in front of my camera. It started out as simply an avenue to explore my artistic side, but as I became more proficient at it, the women in front of the camera began to show interest quite often. It's true that a lot of them are physically very attractive, making this the new "normal" for me. Of course, only a handful of these women turn out to be both physically attractive and interesting at the same time. I am picky, but I will never consider a woman based on her looks only, as this has reinforced to me many times that a confident woman in good spirits is far more desirable to than someone beautiful but broken inside.

 

I know it sounds like many excuses on my part, but this is my honest assessment of the situation, and the anonymity of the internet makes it easy to talk unhindered about the truth. This one recent woman I met via photography attracted me largely because of her personality; her looks were average, but it never bothered me. On the other hand, she was also the only woman I met this way who both asked zero questions about me, as well as nudged me for a kiss (along with many other overt signs of interest, both verbal and non-verbal), all on the same day. Her insecurities are real - it was challenging to even convince her to photograph with me initially too. We are talking about a woman who has had to deal with weight problems when she was younger, including the associated ridicule before. These are the circumstances, and at least partially the reason that I cannot get her to come out for another date... But, who knows anyway? Lots of women I know went through similar phases in their life.

 

I recently convinced myself that I am just flirting with drama, and a lot of heartache, which prompted me to save my sanity and to look elsewhere (speed dating, online dating, etc.). This is consistent with the truth that only a rare and select few relationships will be interesting and will generate mutual attraction, and my experience with this one woman led me so close to finding someone wonderful, but not quite. It is an awakening on many levels. The reasons are probably no longer relevant, but the realization of what happened felt extremely unfortunate.

 

Ironically enough, I have never been as passionate or driven about anything as much as I am with photography, and this is what led me to gain the attention of these women in the first place. Call it a shared interest with some of these women, or simply an intoxicating display of ambition and passion, but the truth is that this hobby has led me this far. Maybe I just need a different angle, and to not let this one woman get me down for so long.

 

Well, I am going to try out different avenues in conjunction with my interest. That should help lift my spirits at the very least. The special dating app you mentioned - I will seek that out.

[shoplocal]

Very interesting topic!

 

Some thoughts - will try to do my best to be helpful -

 

(1) Not sure what you mean by dating outside your culture, but if there's a race component to that, it can make finding partners hard. That's regardless of what race you are, or what race of woman you're into. Unless you're conventionally attractive, rich, or hung like a horse.

 

(2) I had a hearty LOL about your photography shtick. I find male photographers to have a very high opinion of themselves and a very low, limited opinion of women - despite being heterosexual. I love arts and artists, but every art field has its own personality and I would argue you're finding insecure drama-burdened young women because you're no walk in the park yourself. Not in a bad way, mind you ... it's just that there are almost no down to earth, relatively normal and stable, artists. Maybe dancers. But not even all or most of them. Crazy personalities are part of the beauty of art and art scenes. (IMO, anyway.)

 

(3) Interesting women are as rare as interesting people in general. They do not congregate anywhere, they don't look a particular way, and there are no helpful trends to find them. Unfortunately, you're going to have to simply talk to everyone you meet. They might be the interesting woman you're looking for, or know her. I've worked in customer service for yearsssss in many industries and levels of service. I've talked to a shmazillion people. I have always been surprised by who is interesting and in what way. The potential for discovery makes for fun times!

 

(4) Also, on the interesting/secure tip again - how interesting and secure does your ideal woman need to be? Perhaps reflecting on that as you resume your old ways of chatting people up everywhere you go (MAJOR kudos to you for that!) could help you identify specific traits that appeal to you. So when they pop up, you know you're possibly on to something.

 

Super extra good luck to you! Apologies if I misinterpreted things - please do correct any wrongheadedness I may have thrown your way. This thread was so complex and interesting, but I wanted to share some thoughts. Even if I'm the type to miss the forest for the trees, hah.

 

Oh, and PS: the no phone number woman sounded odd. Don't let her weirdness confuse your interactions with the other 2 matches.

[EveningEmbers]

Very interesting topic!

 

Some thoughts - will try to do my best to be helpful -

 

(1) Not sure what you mean by dating outside your culture, but if there's a race component to that, it can make finding partners hard. That's regardless of what race you are, or what race of woman you're into. Unless you're conventionally attractive, rich, or hung like a horse.

 

(2) I had a hearty LOL about your photography shtick. I find male photographers to have a very high opinion of themselves and a very low, limited opinion of women - despite being heterosexual. I love arts and artists, but every art field has its own personality and I would argue you're finding insecure drama-burdened young women because you're no walk in the park yourself. Not in a bad way, mind you ... it's just that there are almost no down to earth, relatively normal and stable, artists. Maybe dancers. But not even all or most of them. Crazy personalities are part of the beauty of art and art scenes. (IMO, anyway.)

 

(3) Interesting women are as rare as interesting people in general. They do not congregate anywhere, they don't look a particular way, and there are no helpful trends to find them. Unfortunately, you're going to have to simply talk to everyone you meet. They might be the interesting woman you're looking for, or know her. I've worked in customer service for yearsssss in many industries and levels of service. I've talked to a shmazillion people. I have always been surprised by who is interesting and in what way. The potential for discovery makes for fun times!

 

(4) Also, on the interesting/secure tip again - how interesting and secure does your ideal woman need to be? Perhaps reflecting on that as you resume your old ways of chatting people up everywhere you go (MAJOR kudos to you for that!) could help you identify specific traits that appeal to you. So when they pop up, you know you're possibly on to something.

 

Super extra good luck to you! Apologies if I misinterpreted things - please do correct any wrongheadedness I may have thrown your way. This thread was so complex and interesting, but I wanted to share some thoughts. Even if I'm the type to miss the forest for the trees, hah.

 

Oh, and PS: the no phone number woman sounded odd. Don't let her weirdness confuse your interactions with the other 2 matches.

 

I feel like you could be my long lost friend that I have never met, thank you so much for the thoughtful insights!

 

(1) When I meant dating outside my culture, yes, there is a race component to it. This makes online dating difficult for me, despite my tall height and average looks. I dress well, so it helps, but not enough to override the preconceptions most women I am attracted to have about dating someone from my racial background. Over the years though, I learned that the race component almost never works against me when I first meet these women in person. An interesting guy is an interesting guy! Some days, I like to believe that being so different (in a good way) from what most women expect helps give me bonus points too

 

(2) Admittedly, I am quite complicated myself. It started when I met my first serious girlfriend, who was extremely attractive, but an absolute mess emotionally. That relationship derailed me from the picture perfect and mostly sheltered life that I lived in, and perhaps shaped me to enjoy and express myself easily via the artistic pursuits alongside my technical day job. I had to let that girl go eventually as it started to slowly pull apart my life too. On the other hand, I am big on principles. I will never date a girl if I do not believe that things will work out, and will never take advantage of her just for personal satisfaction. Same with no smoking, no drugs, etc.

 

(3) Honestly, I feel that I am in a bit of a rut. I understand a lot about women, social dynamics, and have good experience talking up random women that I would like to meet. The flipside is that I traded my mostly carefree college days and the associated "unbounded optimism" with a never-ending, predictable job that eats away at my overall happiness. I am working hard to change that, but the effects are not immediate. By the way, I'd love to hear about your insights after talking to so many people - what traits do most interesting people have in common?

 

(4) My thoughts are this - I'd love to meet more women who are on the recovery from a low and insecure point in their life; the ones who are happy and appreciative and just lovely to be around. What activities would this mythical creature be into? A friend mentioned church or volunteering, and I chuckled a little.

 

Actually, I imagine that you learned a lot about yourself via talking to so many people in your customer service role! In photography, we have a concept where portraits of our models often tell us more about the photographer instead, because he/she projects that mood onto their subjects, decides on the moment to capture, and creates an alternate reality of sorts because of their presence. I can only imagine the same parallels in talking to many different people - almost as an avenue to learn more about ourselves. Please share!