Is this a "thing" acceptable for a married person to do?

[Els]

I only read the first post, but I really don't think he did anything wrong per se. Some people just don't talk about their personal life (marriage, kids) when conversing with a new colleague, because there isn't really any need to.

 

Have you genuinely never had lunch or drinks with a male colleague? This strikes me as somewhat strange.

 

I do wonder why he hadn't worn his ring though (or did you not look)? His field doesn't sound like one in which you'd need to take your ring off for work reasons. If I was going for coffee with a guy from work, I'd definitely wear mine...

Edited March 6, 2018 by Elswyth

[Zapbasket]

 

Have you genuinely never had lunch or drinks with a male colleague? This strikes me as somewhat strange.

 

Where exactly did I say I've never had lunch or drinks with a male colleague? I'm over 40. I've had a great many lunches and drinks and activities with a great many colleagues across a wide array of industries.

 

What I have never experienced is six hours straight with a person one evening, purely one on one, talking about a range of topics both personal and non, and numerous hours one on one during a clinic where a range of topics, personal and non, also were discussed, and never once a single allusion to wife or child.

[Zapbasket]

 

I do wonder why he hadn't worn his ring though (or did you not look)? His field doesn't sound like one in which you'd need to take your ring off for work reasons. If I was going for coffee with a guy from work, I'd definitely wear mine...

 

No ring. Nothing on either hand.

[Els]

Where exactly did I say I've never had lunch or drinks with a male colleague? I'm over 40. I've had a great many lunches and drinks and activities with a great many colleagues across a wide array of industries.

 

What I have never experienced is six hours straight with a person one evening, purely one on one, talking about a range of topics both personal and non, and numerous hours one on one during a clinic where a range of topics, personal and non, also were discussed, and never once a single allusion to wife or child.

 

Chill out. As I said, I'm going off of your opening post, where six hours was never mentioned!

 

It does seem rather strange that the wife and child were not talked about in that case, and that the drinks meetup lasted SIX hours. Alongside the lack of ring-wearing, I'd be very careful around this one.

[littleblackheart]

At my place of work, we have a service you can report harrassment anonymously but you know, if you really think he's grooming you for a sexual relationship and you fully prepare yourself for the consequences, you can always tell him in anecdote or in passing in one of your non professional cpnversations that you are not into office romances. He'll take the hint if he is just trying it on. If not, start recording everything.

[Excedrin PM]

Good for you on the detective work. Keep setting those boundaries.

[lovely81]

If I don't know or am unclear about someone's motivations, and I want to know, I ask.

 

For example, if someone were to ask me to drinks and I found myself wondering about their motivation, I would say/text/email, "Are you asking me to drinks to connect professionally, or are you interested in a romantic capacity?"

[Zapbasket]

If I don't know or am unclear about someone's motivations, and I want to know, I ask.

 

For example, if someone were to ask me to drinks and I found myself wondering about their motivation, I would say/text/email, "Are you asking me to drinks to connect professionally, or are you interested in a romantic capacity?"

 

I agree that can work in situations where the two parties are relative equals, power-wise, but:

 

"Harvey Weinstein, are you asking that we hold our meeting in your hotel room because you're planning to change into an open robe and throw yourself on me, or because you travel so much it's just easier for you to have a meeting in your hotel room, and for people in your position meetings in your hotel room are perfectly normal and you do it with men as well as women?"

 

"Charlie Rose, are you showering nude outside in full view of the window where I'm working BECAUSE you know I'll see you or because you've forgotten that this outdoor shower is visible from where I'm working?"

 

"Sherman Alexie, are you asking to see my manuscript because you're truly interested in my work, or because you plan to pursue a romantic interest with me?"

 

People of nefarious purpose are great at turning things around when caught to make the other person look like the crazy one.

 

Also, as in my situation, that's why I think it's important to be sure it's known that you're married or in a relationship. It helps clear up any possible confusion as to the purpose of the meeting without there being an awkward discussion about it.

 

In my situation, I didn't ask what the purpose of our meeting was, because I thought it was that we obviously were intrigued by each other and wanted to explore it a little further without explicitly calling it a "date." That was definitely the vibe I got. If he'd mentioned his wife, I'd have gone the other way and assumed we were meeting in a mentor / mentee role.

 

I think most of all I am just caught off guard by the realization that someone could lie to me about whether or not they're married. I have heard stories of it happening to other people, but just have never had it happen to me. Now I will pay more attention to whether people are wearing wedding rings and maybe engage in a bit of online snooping before I go out with anyone.

Edited March 7, 2018 by GreenCove

[Cullenbohannon]

You were intrigue by each other and wanted to explore it further. 6 hours of talking about everything but work. How does #metoo fit in this picture?

Edited March 7, 2018 by Cullenbohannon

[Zapbasket]

You were intrigue by each other and wanted to explore it further. 6 hours of talking about everything but work. How does #metoo fit in this picture?

 

As I've said above, we talked about a range of topics, from work things to non-work things, personal things to non-personal things.

 

I'm available and was open about that. He was fundamentally not, and was not open about that.

 

He is in a much higher position in my industry than I am--he is in a position to be a mentor.

 

#MeToo very much fits into this--when possible attraction meets a power differential in a workplace, it can be sticky. Personally, after our evening together I'd thought it over more (I'd thought, as I've said, that it was a date), and decided it was too risky for me to go any further with someone who could affect whether I continue to advance in my industry, or not. My industry as it is is a "good old boys'" club, and people talk.

 

But I really don't want to debate what is MeToo and what is not. Potentially any time a superior and an inferior in a work situation meet outside of work with even a HINT of any possible romantic connotation (either by what is said and signals given, or what is not said and signals not given), it's a #MeToo situation. Maybe someone has had to experience some of this first hand to recognize this. If you don't, that's fine.

[Cullenbohannon]

No I don't understand how your situation is #metoo, and it is fine. Good luck in your career

 

Oh and a 3 thumbs up to the kicked him in the nuts woman. That's how I raised my daughter.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Cullenbohannon

[Zapbasket]

No I don't understand how your situation is #metoo, and it is fine. Good luck in your career

 

Oh and a 3 thumbs up to the kicked him in the nuts woman. That's how I raised my daughter.

 

Good on you; that's how daughters should be raised! I was not raised that way, but it's never too late to unlearn old ways and start delivering some hard whoop-a*s to people who overstep boundaries. The more people are clear they can't get away with bad behavior, the less bad behavior they attempt to get away with.

 

And I just want to add that just as girls should be taught to stick up for themselves when lines are crossed, boys, too, should be taught about what they're NOT entitled to and the meaning of consent.

[Cullenbohannon]

The more people are clear they can't get away with bad behavior, the less bad behavior they attempt to get away with.

 

So true.

 

Laying down the law FROM DAY ONE, helps both genders understand boundaries. Mental toughness and personal resposibility makes a person less likely to be involved in sticky situations.

 

BTW, the best way to achieve success is to form a small tight knit group, make decisions and move forward. Breakfast and power lunches are where things happen. Look for the group, not the mentor. Dinner is for children, wives and husbands. IMHO

 

Good luck with your career.

[Zapbasket]

So true.

 

Laying down the law FROM DAY ONE, helps both genders understand boundaries. Mental toughness and personal resposibility makes a person less likely to be involved in sticky situations.

 

BTW, the best way to achieve success is to form a small tight knit group, make decisions and move forward. Breakfast and power lunches are where things happen. Look for the group, not the mentor. Dinner is for children, wives and husbands. IMHO

 

Good luck with your career.

 

You say some good things even in this short post that I want to be sure I understand 100%.

 

Mental toughness and personal responsibility to minimize landing in sticky interpersonal situations: You mean like not being afraid to ruthlessly cut off any liaison that does not feel right, or to ruthlessly speak out if the situation calls for it. Right?

 

Like with this guy, even before I started this thread, I'd already decided no way would I see him one on one again. I think married people should mention they're married after 6 hours over drinks. The nebulousness of the whole thing just sends me too many negative signals and I don't really care to stick around to find out more, or to find out I was wrong about him. I'm uncomfortable; I'm out. Before, I'd always "try to understand." Excuse after excuse for other people.

 

Your last paragraph: I love this and love to hear you elaborate. You mean a group of peers rather than a mentor. I am being ruthless about whom I hang out with, personally or professionally. If I get a vibe of too many issues, or not smart or interesting enough to hold my interest, I move on. But maybe I'm not yet good about pursuing people I feel intrigued by. I've always been oversensitive to rejection so usually people end up pursuing me...but rarely are they really the people I want to be in my "group." So how do I approach people to cultivate them as colleagues? It's so hard to get people to commit to lunch or such when it's unclear what exactly is in it for them.

[Cullenbohannon]

Addressing your last paragraph.

 

Being intrigued with a colleague has nothing to do with the bottom line. There is a group of us that are waiting for seniority to retire. We do not consult mentors, we chart our own path. My advice is do not look at the group that is already there, look for the group that is moving into that direction. Find a way to assist and ask for assistance. Look for the opportunity to take control of a project. Bring in others and move forward. This group is usually just below senior management. There are 4 of us. 2 men and 2 women. We do not have dinner together. We often bring coffee or grab a quick bite.

 

Power is not given, it is taken. If you expect a mentor to help you short cut your rise, you will get run over by those who ask for nothing and take risk.

 

This ties into the politics of personal responsibility. No one respects a butt kisser or someone who makes excuses. It is easy to spot a woman who will not be messed with. And It is easy to spot the reverse.

[bathtub-row]

Maybe someone already asked this, but was he wearing a wedding ring? If he wasn’t, then he was trying to lure you in.

[JuneL]

OP: I think it’s a good practice to always avoid mixing work with personal life. In future, just always assume the meeting is purely professional and always assume the guy is not available. I’m saying this as someone who met her first bf at work. I think that a romantic relationship that grows out of the workplace usually works better when both parties have already built enough rapport and trust at work. Even if the guy (in your case) were available and wanted to date you, he would have to worry creeping you out, or worry about being accused of sexual harassment in case things turn sour.

[Zapbasket]

OP: I think it’s a good practice to always avoid mixing work with personal life. In future, just always assume the meeting is purely professional and always assume the guy is not available. I’m saying this as someone who met her first bf at work. I think that a romantic relationship that grows out of the workplace usually works better when both parties have already built enough rapport and trust at work. Even if the guy (in your case) were available and wanted to date you, he would have to worry creeping you out, or worry about being accused of sexual harassment in case things turn sour.

 

I agree with you. The irony is that I used to always presume it was professional if a guy with whom I worked suggested we meet--particularly if he was in a higher position than I was. And I would continue to behave as though it were a meeting for a purely professional purpose, until it time after time became clear that the guy had a romantic interest in me. Maybe it didn't begin that way for them--several said that as they got to know me they developed feelings for me.

 

I think from here on I'm going to have a clear policy, that I state as soon as someone indicates a romantic interest at work: I don't date coworkers. Period, end of story. Or people even peripherally associated with my place of work. Maybe if I state this loud and clear, someone like the guy I wrote about on this thread won't even bother with me. Which would be a GREAT thing.

[Foxy Knoxy]

OP, I have to say, respect to you for being concerned about this.

 

I know too many people who would say "what's the big deal? It's only drinks and conversation" but transparency is the right way to go for a married person.

 

You never know, he might have given his wife a head's up before you guys went out. But he should have still been transparent with you to squash any chance you'd get the wrong idea about his intentions.

 

The fact that he told you the next day he had a great time feels very "datey" to me. I've gone out with platonic male friends one-on-one who never made a point to tell me the next day they enjoyed it. They weren't thinking about me the next day. But with actual potential romantic partners ... I've gotten that day after text a few times. This is telling me his intentions were not innocent.

[JuneL]

I agree with you. The irony is that I used to always presume it was professional if a guy with whom I worked suggested we meet--particularly if he was in a higher position than I was. And I would continue to behave as though it were a meeting for a purely professional purpose, until it time after time became clear that the guy had a romantic interest in me. Maybe it didn't begin that way for them--several said that as they got to know me they developed feelings for me.

 

I think from here on I'm going to have a clear policy, that I state as soon as someone indicates a romantic interest at work: I don't date coworkers. Period, end of story. Or people even peripherally associated with my place of work. Maybe if I state this loud and clear, someone like the guy I wrote about on this thread won't even bother with me. Which would be a GREAT thing.

 

Did any of those guys who expressed feelings creep you out, and did any ever work?

[beatcuff]

Maybe someone already asked this, but was he wearing a wedding ring? If he wasn’t, then he was trying to lure you in.

and this sums up this entire thread. too many assumptions, too willing to assume the worst and too quick to burn bridges. i wore my wedding ring for 10 days, that was 26 years ago (my wife wears it on her thumb). don't wear jewelry of any type, never had never will (including watches). now what. many in the construction trades (does not apply here but to drive the point) won't: due to the potential of it getting caught and damaging their finger.

 

and while everyone wants to know why Mr X didn't mention his wife or children, no one asked why OP didn't. maybe they are wearing on him and he 'didn't want to get into it', maybe he was making small talk with a potential contact, maybe he wanted to forget them for an hour or... AND (assuming he tracks such) he now knows OP knows he is married with children.

 

guess what, my ASSUMPTIONS are just as valid as the those on this thread because the OP assumed instead of asking.

 

i agree with donnivain. OP why are you so willing to burn this bridge. it has been said too many times: women determine in the first minute whether they have a potential mate, friend or to move on (hint: as another said, i think, you thought he had some potential). same applies here.

 

meet him the next time. as some point (not in the first 5 minutes) say 'hey i friended you on facebook, you are married with children' then listen. his response will give YOU the opportunity to dictate the relationship. after he is done you can say 'i think marriage to the most sacred of agreements i would never consider dating a married man...' you get the hint. you are drawing a very bright line. then go back to talking about business, the weather or whatever. if he was thinking maybe you could be a 'side piece' you shut it down, if he was thinking you as a colleague --- nothing changed. win-win-win. he knows where you stand, you get a contact/mentor and you didn't embarrassed yourself by misunderstanding the situation.

Edited March 10, 2018 by beatcuff

[Zapbasket]

Thanks again for your responses; they were very helpful and I learned some valuable things, too.

 

I wanted to give an update. Yesterday the guy was back in town and I saw him at our work, three times. There was no way he didn't see me, and I got the distinct vibe that he was avoiding me.

 

A week or so ago, he "waved" to me on Facebook, and I didn't answer--mainly so as not to encourage him in any way, but also because I hate that crap (waves, pokes, etc.) on FB and generally ignore it no matter who it is.

 

So evidently indeed his intentions weren't professional, and hopefully he got the message that I'm not down for whatever he was offering. Either that or he just wasn't interested--either way, I don't care, especially given he wasn't supposed to be "interested" in the first place.

 

Ugh. I hope this isn't the norm for a lot of married people.

 

On the professional front, next time I see him I'll be sure to say hello, in a light, breezy manner while I continue on my way.

 

And I am taking care that at work I exude a vibe that I'm friendly and approachable, as always, but also that I'm generally not available to date coworkers.

[d0nnivain]

GreenCove

 

I'm sorry that you didn't get your mentor. On a positive note use this experience as confirmation that you can trust your own instincts.

 

Hang tough, girlfriend. You will get both the great career & the awesome guy, eventually

[lana-banana]

I'm a bit confused. You added him on Facebook *after* your encounter, but his virtual wave was what made it unprofessional? Maybe he avoided you because you ignored him?

 

In any case, that interaction is over, and remember you are free to walk away from any situations like this that make you uncomfortable.

[DKT3]

Imho..much Ado about nothing.

 

Sounds like mountains and molehills. Even if his interest was beyond professional, shut it down and move on, all the ignoring and making sure you speak next time seems rather sophomoric.