Is this a "thing" acceptable for a married person to do?

[Zapbasket]

I'm a bit confused. You added him on Facebook *after* your encounter, but his virtual wave was what made it unprofessional? Maybe he avoided you because you ignored him?

 

In any case, that interaction is over, and remember you are free to walk away from any situations like this that make you uncomfortable.

 

Yes, it was when I added him on FB that I saw from his wife's posts on his timeline that he was married with an 11-y/o son, neither wife nor son having been mentioned once in a six-hour evening.

[Zapbasket]

Imho..much Ado about nothing.

 

Sounds like mountains and molehills. Even if his interest was beyond professional, shut it down and move on, all the ignoring and making sure you speak next time seems rather sophomoric.

 

Maybe so, but I really like it when people are transparent about things like their marital status before inviting me out one on one and leaving me to find it out after the fact. I don't think that's "sophomoric" at all.

[S_A]

I typically find a clever way to mention early on that I am newly married. What’s funny is that’s when a chick’s true thirst really shows lol.

 

GreenCove, any chance (deep down) you’re hoping he wants something more with you (whether or not you’d partake in whatever that ‘something more’ is)?

[Zapbasket]

I typically find a clever way to mention early on that I am newly married. What’s funny is that’s when a chick’s true thirst really shows lol.

 

GreenCove, any chance (deep down) you’re hoping he wants something more with you (whether or not you’d partake in whatever that ‘something more’ is)?

 

Yeah, my good friend told me her husband said he got even more interest from women when he made known he was engaged.

 

But speaking for myself, at least, I'm about as disinterested in another woman's man as I'd be in my own brother (if I had one). Just an instant turn-off. Mentioning you're married for me immediately sets a platonic tone, and everyone knows what's what.

[Zapbasket]

I typically find a clever way to mention early on that I am newly married. What’s funny is that’s when a chick’s true thirst really shows lol.

 

GreenCove, any chance (deep down) you’re hoping he wants something more with you (whether or not you’d partake in whatever that ‘something more’ is)?

 

Missed your question. No, I found him interesting and attractive, which was why I accepted his invite for an evening out, but no, as I've said throughout this thread, I'm most definitely NOT hoping he wants something more with me. And even if he were single, which is moot since he is not, while I probably would have gone on a second date, I didn't feel major sparks or even find him as interesting as he initially seemed.

 

What I'm hoping for is to surround myself, personally and professionally, with people who have integrity, first and foremost. I really don't like being deceived even in small ways. Though I don't think being silent about your wife and kid is "small."

 

Whatever, as I said, it's done and no, I hope for nothing whatsoever from him at this point save a lack of awkwardness when we have to encounter one another in a professional setting. That's it.

 

Edited to add: No, the thing is, I really DON'T want romantic attention from married men. It really is a turn-off to me. Love your wife. Talk about her. Dote publicly on her. THAT'S very attractive--but only in the sense of, "Here's a really stand-up guy," NOT, "Oooh, I wish he were interested in me." It's pathetic that there are women who would think that way.

Edited March 21, 2018 by GreenCove

[JuneL]

OP: I asked earlier what happened to those work guys who did show a romantic interest explicitly? Did they creep you out? Did any successful romantic relationship develop out of it? If not, then, why would you be more “open-minded” in this area? Personally, I know quite a few people who met their significant others at work. But these relationships develop organically over time.

[happyhusband0005]

While you may not have been sure what this was and innocent business mentoring drink or a date, he was sure it was professional only. Having a drink with a colleague in a public place & talking about work is perfectly legitimate. Your confusion about his intentions does not make him a cheater. Even during a getting to know you conversation about work there was no need for him to mention his wife & kids.

 

However, if he wasn't wearing a wedding ring, things get dicey.

 

I would not raise the issue of his marital status with him directly and certainly not bring it up first if you see him at an industry event. Talk about work. Learn what you can from him.

 

If he asks you to meet one on one again, ask him if this is the type of place his wife would like & express interest in meeting her if you are ever in his area. If everything is above board he'll launch into how much she would like you & he'll be enthusiastic about introducing you. If he blanches, well then you know he had impure motives.

 

I agree with this. I go to a few big industry conventions each year. Most attendees see them as great networking opportunities. And successful people in industries in which strong professional networks are important are prolific schmoozers. He might have noticed something in you that made him think you would be a good professional contact to cultivate a friendship with. Maybe he sees you as someone who is going places. For people to immediately jump to conclusions that he is a scumbag or has bad intentions is way out of line, unless he did something to make you think his intentions are wrong. If I meet a guy at an event and we go out to grab some beers after should I make sure I mention my wife? Maybe he is a guy who views people as people and is treating you like he would any person.

 

Also if he was up to something would he have accepted a friend request on facebook, his wife sees when he becomes friends with someone.

 

With zero evidence of bad behavior its not a fair to make that leap. If you see him again, now that your facebook friends, you can ask him about his wife and child. My guess is he will talk openly about them. If he starts telling you how horrible his marriage is or something then you have reason to think somethings up and procede with caution.

[Wookin Pa Nub]

I did not read all the responses. I am a guy who use to travel for work and not in a healthy marriage. He's trying to get laid. If he was in healthy marriage he'd be telling you about his W and kids and limit any professional interaction to a meeting over coffee or lunch. Take it from a guy, he's trying to get down your pants.

 

 

Who knows maybe his wife has two state rule - as long as he's two states away, he can do his thing.

[happyhusband0005]

I would also point out... My industry is commercial real estate. So these conferences I go to are pretty evenly populated by both men and women. Also there are lots of cocktail parties and the such. I have many times been having drinks with a broker who happened to be a women who might work on similar deals to what I do and she won't mention marital status or her husband. I have never said oh she must have wanted to get laid. Then maybe fast forward to next years conference I run into her at a party and this time she brought her husband, and he'll have heard about me. I also might have not mentioned my wife to her even though I had no intention of getting in her pants. Professional people are professional.

[JDJ]

I respect the OP's gut feeling about this situation, but I have to point out that this is one of the places where #metoo is driving a wedge between the sexes and driving good men away from contact with women.

 

The older mentor and/or date in this scenario spent six hours (way too long) talking about "nothing deeply personal" over drinks (a bad thing). Since they talked about nothing deeply personal, it does not seem right to require the mentor/date to disclose information about his marital status. We might disapprove of his not wearing a ring, but that is also not required. There are many lapses of judgment on his part, but he is human after all. To give him credit, he spent six hours with her without any advances or sexual innuendo, apparently.

 

For spending time with the OP, accepting the OP's friend request, and giving a friendly "wave", the mentor/date is called an "a-hole". As others mentioned, accepting her FB request means she is visible to his wife. Whether it was ok for this married man to engage in this behavior is sort of up to the married couple's own standards. But Harvey Weinstein, Charlie Rose, and others also came up in the thread, even though at one point the OP said she would have considered a second outing with him. It's fine if she just a bad feeling about what happened, and didn't want to have anything more to do with him, but why the piling on?

 

If I was a man in "the industry", I would really hesitate about spending time with a woman one-on-one. The mentor/date transmogrified into a monster pretty quickly.

[happyhusband0005]

As I've said above, we talked about a range of topics, from work things to non-work things, personal things to non-personal things.

 

I'm available and was open about that. He was fundamentally not, and was not open about that.

 

He is in a much higher position in my industry than I am--he is in a position to be a mentor.

 

#MeToo very much fits into this--when possible attraction meets a power differential in a workplace, it can be sticky. Personally, after our evening together I'd thought it over more (I'd thought, as I've said, that it was a date), and decided it was too risky for me to go any further with someone who could affect whether I continue to advance in my industry, or not. My industry as it is is a "good old boys'" club, and people talk.

 

But I really don't want to debate what is MeToo and what is not. Potentially any time a superior and an inferior in a work situation meet outside of work with even a HINT of any possible romantic connotation (either by what is said and signals given, or what is not said and signals not given), it's a #MeToo situation. Maybe someone has had to experience some of this first hand to recognize this. If you don't, that's fine.

 

WOW, Like wowie wow wow. I might have missed a post or two, I do that but let me get this straight. A person who was leading a clinic for you organization invites you out to drinks after interacting professionally with you, he makes no romantic or sexual advance of any kind, you friend him on facebook he accepts, (which is publicly visible) and he is compared to Harvey Weinstein because he didn't say oh by the way I'm married so don't get any ideas. Holy mollie.

 

When my wife got out of college she had a male mentor (she was early 20s he was late 20s) who thought she was great. He would take her out to lunch after work drinks everything. She didn't know he was married for about 5 months, but the thought never crossed her mind that he was interested in more than mentoring her. She assumed no knew she was worth mentoring and building a strong relationship with. Well fast forward about 20 years and it worked out for him because about a year and a half ago when he got laid off she recruited him to her company and he no works on her team at her current company. If she had freaked out when she found out he was married both of their lives would be drastically different. He was huge in her career, recommended her for promotions one which got us the chance to live in London etc.

 

I mean you could always be right about the guy but assuming this with no evidence other than he didn't immediately tell me he was married and didn't wear a wedding ring (a large percentage of men don't) so he's is some way like a monster such as Harvey Weinstein is sooo whacky to me.

 

I mean TBH this actually scares me. I'm a very high level in my industry, I am now scared to mentor anyone but men. I mean if I started mentoring a woman and said oh by the way I'm married I might be accused of being condescending and suggest she was going to try and get with me to further her career and start making me out to be a sexist somehow.

 

I mean if something gave you the gut instinct he was might be trying to trick you into sex (says something that you worry you could somehow be tricked into sex) you could have bumped into him in the office and asked about his wife and seen what he did.

 

I don't know why this bothers me so much it just does, but again maybe your intuition is right.

[Zapbasket]

OP: I asked earlier what happened to those work guys who did show a romantic interest explicitly? Did they creep you out? Did any successful romantic relationship develop out of it? If not, then, why would you be more “open-minded” in this area? Personally, I know quite a few people who met their significant others at work. But these relationships develop organically over time.

 

Several creeped me out because in addition to being in a higher position than I was, they also were much too old for me, such that I didn't even consider them in a romantic way because they, in my mind, were too old.

 

One was a couple of years younger than me and he creeped me out because he wouldn't let me alone. He signed up for a course solely, he admitted, because I was taking it, and signed up for a camping trip through an organization I belonged to because, he said, "That way we can spend more time together." He wouldn't leave me alone until finally I told him I was not interested in him romantically, then he bombarded me in my office at the end of the work day to find out exactly *why* I was not interested. At that point I told him he really needed to leave me alone, and he agreed, but because he hadn't let me alone in the past, I mentioned it to my and his supervisor as well as HR in case it escalated. This kept me from getting a position I wanted in our company that would have me working more closely with him because, as my would-be boss said, "We know you had a problem with B." And I said, "No, I did not 'have a problem' with him; he repeatedly ignored my requests to leave me alone. So no, I didn't have a problem with him; he had a problem respecting my boundaries."

 

I have tried to be more open-minded because I live in a small area where it's hard to meet new people and by necessity I do socialize with people with whom I also work.

[Zapbasket]

WOW, Like wowie wow wow. I might have missed a post or two, I do that but let me get this straight. A person who was leading a clinic for you organization invites you out to drinks after interacting professionally with you, he makes no romantic or sexual advance of any kind, you friend him on facebook he accepts, (which is publicly visible) and he is compared to Harvey Weinstein because he didn't say oh by the way I'm married so don't get any ideas. Holy mollie.

 

When my wife got out of college she had a male mentor (she was early 20s he was late 20s) who thought she was great. He would take her out to lunch after work drinks everything. She didn't know he was married for about 5 months, but the thought never crossed her mind that he was interested in more than mentoring her. She assumed no knew she was worth mentoring and building a strong relationship with. Well fast forward about 20 years and it worked out for him because about a year and a half ago when he got laid off she recruited him to her company and he no works on her team at her current company. If she had freaked out when she found out he was married both of their lives would be drastically different. He was huge in her career, recommended her for promotions one which got us the chance to live in London etc.

 

I mean you could always be right about the guy but assuming this with no evidence other than he didn't immediately tell me he was married and didn't wear a wedding ring (a large percentage of men don't) so he's is some way like a monster such as Harvey Weinstein is sooo whacky to me.

 

I mean TBH this actually scares me. I'm a very high level in my industry, I am now scared to mentor anyone but men. I mean if I started mentoring a woman and said oh by the way I'm married I might be accused of being condescending and suggest she was going to try and get with me to further her career and start making me out to be a sexist somehow.

 

I mean if something gave you the gut instinct he was might be trying to trick you into sex (says something that you worry you could somehow be tricked into sex) you could have bumped into him in the office and asked about his wife and seen what he did.

 

I don't know why this bothers me so much it just does, but again maybe your intuition is right.

 

I could split hairs here, but I just think my intuition is right. It has had a lot of training.

 

Just like your wife, many times I simply believed that X or Y male superior at work wanted to meet with me because he saw my talent and felt I was worth mentoring. Many times I was crushed to find out that they just wanted to get into my pants.

 

I just think that when you're a healthy partner in a healthy marriage and you invite someone of the opposite sex out for drinks one on one, you just mention it. Even once. Most people I know who have kids talk about their kids. It's odd to go for 5 or 6 hours and not once mention you have a kid. With the guy on this thread, we had enough of "personal" conversation that a mention of his kid and his wife would have been reasonable.

 

But I don't want to keep hashing the point. I don't think my intuition was wrong.

[Zapbasket]

Since they talked about nothing deeply personal, it does not seem right to require the mentor/date to disclose information about his marital status.

 

I don't think a brief allusion to one's marital status constitutes a "deeply personal" category of disclosure.

 

I would really hesitate about spending time with a woman one-on-one. The mentor/date transmogrified into a monster pretty quickly.

 

And I think you should hesitate. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have meetings with women outside of work, but it does mean you should take care that no one gets the wrong idea that the meeting is anything but a professional one. It's pretty easy to casually mention that you are married. And if you're not, then yes, you should be careful when hobnobbing with your opposite sex coworkers after work, one on one. I really don't understand why that requires so much debate. It's common sense to me.

[happyhusband0005]

I guess like I said I am not discounting your intuition could have been right. You were there so we don't know what was said. But I will tell you this, there are a lot of scum bag guys out there and a lot (truely more) decent guys out there as well. Jumping to conclusions when it concerns an excellent potential career mentor hurts you.

 

What I think is really out of line is comparing him to Harvey Weinstein. This attitude is what is already have a negative impact on women in the corporate world. Men should be called out for scum bag behavior with no mercy when clearly deserved, but when you have zero concrete reason to say that other than intuition, that is why many, many senior men are hesitant to mentor even very high quality female professionals. I mean he didn't say anything insinuating anything but intuition tells me he was like Harvey Weinstein so I just had a #metoo moment, you have to admit that is harsh and frankly cheapens the #metoo movement. I think you need to at least mentally walk that one back.

[JDJ]

I don't think a brief allusion to one's marital status constitutes a "deeply personal" category of disclosure.

 

Yet you did not ask him about it.

 

And I think you should hesitate. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have meetings with women outside of work, but it does mean you should take care that no one gets the wrong idea that the meeting is anything but a professional one. It's pretty easy to casually mention that you are married. And if you're not, then yes, you should be careful when hobnobbing with your opposite sex coworkers after work, one on one. I really don't understand why that requires so much debate. It's common sense to me.

 

 

Yet you did not hesitate to meet with him. But because he is a man and agreed to meet with you, he is likened to Harvey Weinstein. It seems clear to me that a man should not have a one on one meeting with a woman connected to his work. It's common sense to me.

[happyhusband0005]

And one thing I meant to mention but didn't (busy day). As a man in a professional setting I am not obligated to be clear that my intentions are professional and not romantic. If you assume they are romantic and then you are annoyed when you find out they were not it's not my problem.

 

OP that is not directed at you it's a general statement for the cosmos. As men we need to make sure our sex is doing the right thing but the vast majority of us are not A**holes because of what hangs between our thighs. And we don't deserve to be suspected of it for no clear reason.

 

God I hate the Harvey Weinstein's of the world. And when are they going to execute Cliff Huckstable.

 

Not to totally go off on a rant here but this is making me nuts. And I should probably post a rant in the proper forum but...

 

We have a cultural problem in our society. There is a boys club/power club/bro culture that completely marginalizes women. Guys, men, boys, please listen. We need to step up and develop a zero tolerance policy with our friends, co-workers and fellow men. If I ever heard of a colleague, employee or friend who was Harvey Weinsteining a woman I would be 100% ready to delivery a ruthless A**whooping to whoever the offender was. Until we as men start making it clear to our fellow men that scumbag behavior is worthy of an A**whooping or total shaming we will all be suspect.

 

Ladies, I want to apologize for the male side of our species that has caused you to take the behavior described in the OP here (even in it's worst possible interpretation) and essentially compare it to rape, which is what Harvey Weinstein is accused of. Women deserve much better than what they have had to deal with over the past few millennia. I'm sorry it has come to this.

[Zapbasket]

Yet you did not hesitate to meet with him. But because he is a man and agreed to meet with you, he is likened to Harvey Weinstein. It seems clear to me that a man should not have a one on one meeting with a woman connected to his work. It's common sense to me.

 

I never meant to imply that this guy = Harvey Weinstein. I was referring to a spectrum, on the far end of which is someone like Harvey Weinstein and other people (not just men) who leverage their professional power over others for sexual/emotional gratification. Because this kind of abuse of power can and does exist, and because in general there is always the possibility of romantic attraction occurring between two people of the opposite sex that can be further stoked by time spent together at work, it makes good sense to be open about things like marital/relationship status.

 

For me, personally, when I was in a relationship, I'd have felt weird meeting one on one for dinner and drinks with someone of the opposite sex and never mentioning that I was in a relationship. That's one of the first things I put out there, and I didn't wait for the other person to ask me.

[Tribble]

OP, you seem to say that (from your opinion), originally this was a) a date or b) a business get together. If the guy had mentioned that he was married, everything would have been clear and you'd have switched your interaction to b), no problem. But, what if he was single and from his point of view, it was still b)? How would you have known?

 

It's tricky, a difficult thing to manoeuvre. I'm also sorry that you've had the experiences you have had. I treat people the same, regardless of gender. Sadly, it often comes across as flirting and gets me into sticky situations because some guys misinterpret it. It's sad that as a single person, you can't easily interact with someone of the opposite gender without something being misconstrued. But you shouldn't let your experiences colour your future. For sure, listen to your instincts, but not every guy is a bad guy or out to get into your pants.

 

With regards to this:

 

I never meant to imply that this guy = Harvey Weinstein. I was referring to a spectrum, on the far end of which is someone like Harvey Weinstein and other people (not just men) who leverage their professional power over others for sexual/emotional gratification. Because this kind of abuse of power can and does exist, and because in general there is always the possibility of romantic attraction occurring between two people of the opposite sex that can be further stoked by time spent together at work, it makes good sense to be open about things like marital/relationship status.

 

This makes me so sad. I agree with HappyHusband. No-one here knows your guys intentions. He could be an a**hole looking to cheat on his wife or he could be someone who just didn't mention his wife while trying to make a work connection. Assuming for a moment he is the first (which I don't know if he is or not), he is a cheater, a horrible guy, untrustworthy and not worth a second more of your thoughts. But I have seen nothing that implies he was using his power over you to leverage anything. It seems like his slight seniority over you in the industry is a moot point. He didn't once imply if you slept with him, he would further your career or destroy it if you didn't. I don't see any manipulation here. To compare it to #metoo demonises men for any and all behaviour, puts women in a victim role and takes away from the real issues at hand. It makes men frightened of saying anything to women because they are worried they will be accused of harassment and have their reputations destroyed, regardless of their intentions. The men who are guilty should be brought into the light and made to pay, but the rest of their gender should not have to pay for their mistakes.

[JuneL]

Men like Harvey Weinstein never had to hide the fact that they are very much married from Day 1.

[Timshel]

I never meant to imply that this guy = Harvey Weinstein. I was referring to a spectrum, on the far end of which is someone like Harvey Weinstein and other people (not just men) who leverage their professional power over others for sexual/emotional gratification. Because this kind of abuse of power can and does exist, and because in general there is always the possibility of romantic attraction occurring between two people of the opposite sex that can be further stoked by time spent together at work, it makes good sense to be open about things like marital/relationship status.

 

For me, personally, when I was in a relationship, I'd have felt weird meeting one on one for dinner and drinks with someone of the opposite sex and never mentioning that I was in a relationship. That's one of the first things I put out there, and I didn't wait for the other person to ask me.

 

Agree GreenCove, even in my personal life, a man not disclosing his relationship status is shady imo.

 

Professionally, it's unacceptable. Your instincts are spot on....kudos.

[WorldInMyEyes]

OP spent six hours alone getting drunk with a dude wearing a wedding ring, then afterwards sent him a FB friend request and exchanged texts with him and somehow it's all on him?

 

Ha!

[JDJ]

OP spent six hours alone getting drunk with a dude wearing a wedding ring, then afterwards sent him a FB friend request and exchanged texts with him and somehow it's all on him?

 

Ha!

 

To be fair, she did say he was NOT wearing a ring. But this has been my point in my comments on this thread. If she had a bad feeling about him, it is her prerogative not to contact him any more. But to dump on him because he did not loudly declare his marital status seems pretty unfair. Here's another scenario - perhaps he did say that he was married, but she didn't hear it because she was distracted at that moment. Could happen somewhere in the six hours they spent together.

 

As for it being "unacceptable" for him not to mention his marital status in a professional meeting, this is where we are taking a turn into bizarroworld with #metoo. I don't make it a habit to lead off all meetings with this kind of announcement. And I really don't like the rampant sexism involved in suspecting/blaming men just because they are men. This is why I would not recommend a man spending time alone with a woman in the same "industry".

[Zapbasket]

Agree GreenCove, even in my personal life, a man not disclosing his relationship status is shady imo.

 

Professionally, it's unacceptable. Your instincts are spot on....kudos.

 

Thanks, Timshel.