Asking people out at work - Etiquette?

[SevenCity]

Not exactly. The standard is how would a reasonable woman react to the behavior. If most women would be offended it's harassment. Just because the one woman is upset, doesn't make it actionable. The standard weeds out the outliers.

 

Most legal standards are how would a reasonable person perceive the behavior. Discrimination standards narrow the field to the perceptions of the designated class -- How would a woman react? How would a gay person react? How would a minority react? etc.

 

Well people are far from reasonable. But if you are polite and say “Would you like to grab a drink after work?” And she says no and you stop asking, is there any reasonable person who would consider that harrsssment?

 

I’m not legal expert but the training I have taken underscores REPEATED and unwanted. By that standard, I don’t see how asking once constitutes.

[Art_Critic]

I'm of the don't fish off the company pier but....

 

If you wanted guidance then I would think like someone else mentioned.. not in the same department.

You have to also consider her and the vantage from her viewpoint.. in other wards if she thinks you work too closely then she will say no...

 

Obviously if you think her saying no will also make her uncomfortable and then a trip to HR would ensue I would say no to that idea as well...

 

In general I would think the feeling would have to be mutual for there to not be any uncomfortable feelings on either side.

 

Body language and how she treats and greets you might also be an indicator to when to say yes and go for it.

[d0nnivain]

SevenCity

 

You are right. The second part of the standard is that to be harassment the conduct must be severe (using groping or the Harvey Weinstein showing up naked garbage) OR pervasive (happens over & over).

 

A single Q when there ask-er takes no for an answer is not usually harassment. However, there was an instance in NJ where the biggest boss in the workplace which happened to be a law enforcement agency walked passed a black woman recruit doing calisthenics & commented to another high ranking official calling her a "jungle bunny." The Court found that single comment actionable as being severe. There were also hints that the comment represented a deep discriminatory sentiment.

[CptInsano]

Not exactly. The standard is how would a reasonable woman react to the behavior. If most women would be offended it's harassment. Just because the one woman is upset, doesn't make it actionable. The standard weeds out the outliers.

 

Most legal standards are how would a reasonable person perceive the behavior. Discrimination standards narrow the field to the perceptions of the designated class -- How would a woman react? How would a gay person react? How would a minority react? etc.

 

Well, at work it is most likely not the legal standard that applies (unless something really egraious occurs) but rather company policy. Most current company policies are almost impossible to follow to the letter, as they are catch all statements that protect the company.

 

What has always protected me is knowing how that particular co-worker would react. It's one of the big advantages that work provides: You have plenty of time to get to know somebody.

[JDJ]

I still don't understand why anyone would voluntarily do this. If she says yes, there are still many pitfalls ahead. You have to keep it secret so no one gossips about it. You introduce fear and lying into your life. If it doesn't work out, there are infinitely many ways problems could come back to you.

 

True, not a big deal if you're bagging at the grocery store. But for any kind of real job, it seems like a terrible idea.

[CptInsano]

I still don't understand why anyone would voluntarily do this. If she says yes, there are still many pitfalls ahead. You have to keep it secret so no one gossips about it. You introduce fear and lying into your life. If it doesn't work out, there are infinitely many ways problems could come back to you.

 

True, not a big deal if you're bagging at the grocery store. But for any kind of real job, it seems like a terrible idea.

 

I don't think it is so much that people prefer to date colleagues, but that they are attracted to those they know. I've seen it work out in professional environments, too. But it's usually kept a secret until after the couple no longer works in the same department.

[Ruby Slippers]

A colleague of mine just got engaged to a woman from another department. He said they dated for a year after meeting at a work event. They're a very cute couple, seem great for each other. I can see them being very happy together and making many babies.

 

I imagine he asked her out for lunch/a drink/dinner and went from there.

[SevenCity]

And if she says yes? Then you have to arrange a clandestine meeting and worry forever after than she will report your behavior. If it does get out that you ogled her ankle, then you'll have to quit your job, if you're not fired first. It is soooo not worth it.

 

Very relevant post for me now as I recently started dating a girl I work with.

 

When I met her I had debated the pros/cons of a work relationship (my two most serious were spawned from work - ex wife 10 years and ex gf of 7). I stopped by her desk and talked to get to know her. She made it clear she was single and we joked about the perils of online dating as we described our “type” which we both matched perfectly. I asked her out for coffee later in the week.

 

Something happened as we sat there talking and laughing at coffee...like I had known her for years. I had no choice but to interrupt her mid sentence and say “I’m sorry to interrupt, but I would love to take you out this weekend. Are you free on Saturday?” to which she enthusiastically said yes and gave suggestions of what we could do.

 

The date was magical, to say the least, and we have pretty much been inseparable these past few weeks and are already talking about future plans.

 

Only one other time have I felt this way in my life (aforementioned ex gf) and didn’t think it would be possible to happen again so I gave up looking and relegated women to short term sex.

 

Could it blow up? Yep. But you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. And the biggest regrets I have in life have not been when I failed, but when I didn’t even try.

 

As I’m only a few years away from 50, I learned sometimes in life you just have to say “F it”.

[Shining One]

Me neither, and it usually didn't end well for the woman once it was over.

I'm curious. What sort of repercussions did the women typically face? I've had a couple interactions with women at work over the years and I was fortunate to come through unscathed.

[lana-banana]

I met my husband through work. My situation was a bit unusual---we were in the public sector at the time, at an organization where the majority of individuals married people they met through work, so it was not a big deal---but regardless here are my thoughts:

 

1) Don't ask out anyone in your chain of command. Just don't.

2) Don't ask out someone you have to see every day. If they're in your office, at least wait until they've moved to a different branch or department.

3) Ask once. If you aren't sure what her answer means, you have your answer.

 

I see men here and elsewhere on the internet complaining about how hard it is to ask women out in the workplace, but asking someone on a date isn't workplace harassment. What is harassment is asking repeatedly, stalking, groping, bullying, or career extortion. I don't know any woman who was offended about being asked on a date, but I know many women (myself included) who have been in situations where their bosses touched them inappropriately or suggested they go on dates for "career advancement".

 

When my husband and I started dating we were very nervous about things going south, especially since we were still working on a major project together. It was fine because we kept the lines of communication open and compartmentalized work and dating to the greatest possible extent. Also, all of our colleagues and bosses thought we were dating anyway, so it was no shock when after six months we finally came out about it.

[No_Go]

As a guy, I don't think you should ever make the first move and ask out a woman at work. Just go with the flow. You can talk to her and be friendly but I would leave it at that. If she is interested, things will likely progress naturally. Asking women out can lead to a guy being sued or fired these days. Simply not worth it.

 

Yup good to have a great rapport of the woman integrity before proceeding because she may cry crocodile tears a decade later and ruin your career - we’ve seen enough of that.

 

But if proceeding with caution - not ‘direct’ date invites but more casual activities early on like lunches and walks etc - it may turn into something great Just the rule is move SLOW.

[No_Go]

3) Ask once. If you aren't sure what her answer means, you have your answer.

 

This however does NOT apply if you’re trying to date more reserved / introverted person.

 

I personally never accept first invite. My BF was a coworker and as asking me out for months (but not intrusive- just casual invites to things every couple of weeks) before I gained the courage to accept. No regrets on both ends:)

[losangelena]

I've dated/hooked up with several men from the place I currently work. I have certain stipulations:

 

A) They can't be on my immediate team (my team is five married men and a woman; not a problem); B) Ideally they are not in the same discipline (made out with one of these once, oops); C) They don't work in close physical proximity (so I don't have to see them everyday).

 

My company is large-ish, 1,500 on the main campus. It's also quite young—at 37, I'm on the older end of the age scale. It's also a tech company, so it's majority men, so for me it's like shooting fish in a barrel. But there are a lot of couples where I work. Some were dating/married before both respective parties worked there, some met at work.

 

The only times people have gotten let go for anything relationship-related, is if there was inappropriate physical contact, or, as others have mentioned, repeated and unwanted and/or disrespectful advances/requests for dates. Like there was one guy who literally asked out every woman on his team, they all said no, and he kept doing it. That guy is an idiot.

 

There's certain care that has to be taken when getting involved with coworkers, but, it can definitely be done.