she left - but will it last?

[somanymistakes]

So it turns out that she's started threatening to kill herself if he leaves her for me, which is why he feels so trapped even though the relationship has basically fallen apart. He's trying to get her to agree to go to counselling with him, which she keeps putting off, right now she's saying she has to finish a school project first and it's not fair to make her deal with relationship problems right now.

 

If he can get her to go, we've agreed that we need to drop contact during that period so he can focus totally on them. If she keeps putting it off, then things get complicated and we have talked about what might happen then.

 

I can't be too angry with her for trying the guilt trap, anything she does I've probably done worse at some point, but it does make me much more certain that he needs to leave her.

[imsosad]

"My wife will kill herself if I leave her" is one of the oldest lines in the book. Did you hear her say that yourself?

Maybe he is the one trying the guilt trip-on you.

[Birdies]

Oh man. You don't want to touch this with a ten foot pole. The crazy ex will never get out of your life even IF he miraculously leaves someday. Look at the thread I posted recently...

[somanymistakes]

"My wife will kill herself if I leave her" is one of the oldest lines in the book. Did you hear her say that yourself?

Maybe he is the one trying the guilt trip-on you.

 

No, I didn't hear her say it myself. But it doesn't really work as a guilt trip on me, since to me it's just proof that (along with everything else she's done) she's not as nice as she pretends to be and she's emotionally manipulating him and trying to heap more responsibility onto his head to keep control of him.

 

He didn't say she'd actually do it, he said she's threatening, and we both know that's a relationship red flag. It's not a reason to stay, it's an even bigger reason to leave.

 

It does mean the leaving has to be handled carefully.

[imsosad]

If you didn't hear her say it, you have proof of nothing.

Being in an affair and calling the betrayed spouse manipulative and controlling is hypocritical. Has he been sainty, upfront, honest and open in his communication with her? Have you not been complicit in deceit and manipulation of her?

Everything you wrote is text book affair fog:

"He's having the affair because she is cold,controlling and manipulative and now he can't leave...well,because she's cold, controlling and manipulative"

We've seen it on this board countless times.

When someone wants to leave, they do.

I'd say you're the one getting the lies and manipulation now, from him.

[somanymistakes]

This forum always sees everything as 'textbook' even when the details are drastically different, though.

 

"He's just trying to have sex with you on the side" no, he isn't

"He'll never tell his wife" yes, he did

"If the wife finds out he'll dump you instantly" no, he didn't

 

Threatening to kill yourself if your partner doesn't do what you want is emotional abuse. I am absolutely not perfect, I have done a lot of messed-up things in my life, I said I don't hate her for it, but to me it's the final nail proving that he should not stay with her and that I need to stop being so wishy-washy about accepting it.

[minimariah]

He didn't say she'd actually do it, he said she's threatening, and we both know that's a relationship red flag.

 

there are more red flags in your romantic relationship with this MM than in his marriage and ALL affair stories on LS combined.

 

let that sink in.

[somanymistakes]

there are more red flags in your romantic relationship with this MM than in his marriage and ALL affair stories on LS combined.

 

let that sink in.

 

I'm afraid it just makes me laugh because it's completely ridiculous.

 

In just a few months here I've seen stories of serial cheaters, physical abuse, stalking, bosses abusing their positions, teachers abusing their positions, unapologetic booty calls, men cheating on their pregnant wives, men who tell outright lies for attention and then drop the poor woman once she shows signs of interest, people playing games with their children, men trying to pressure women into abortions, etc.

 

Yes, I'm having an acknowledged emotional affair with an old boyfriend whose marriage is in trouble. (Is it even an affair anymore if it's no longer a secret?) What, exactly, are you claiming is more red flags than the rest of the world combined?

Edited February 11, 2017 by somanymistakes

[FoundMyStrength]

Threatening to kill yourself if your partner doesn't do what you want is emotional abuse. I am absolutely not perfect, I have done a lot of messed-up things in my life, I said I don't hate her for it, but to me it's the final nail proving that he should not stay with her and that I need to stop being so wishy-washy about accepting it.

 

The truth is, you have no idea how this went down, only his report. I've known BS's who have become genuinely suicidal after they found out about an affair. Affairs are devastating breaches of trust and faith.

 

I'm a fOW, so I do get it, you love him and you want him. But his affair was a form of emotional abuse to his wife, and now she's having an emotional reaction to it. She may or may not be suicidal. It may or may not be an attempt to pull at his heartstrings. But he made a commitment to her, and if he's going to burn down the house of his marriage with an affair, he has a responsibility to make sure his wife makes it out alive.

[somanymistakes]

So... some updates. Things have basically been in a holding pattern, going nowhere.

 

Part of this is because he had a huge work commitment for the month of March (something I knew about well in advance, before the EA even started) which meant he basically had no free time at all, so we've only been able to exchange quick messages here and there.

 

Part of this is because his wife is doing her very best to prevent them from dealing with their problems. When she's not refusing to talk because she's 'too busy with school' so it's 'not fair' for him to stress her out with relationship discussions, or yelling at him until he turtles up, or getting hysterical and threatening to hurt herself until he has to calm her down, she simply leaves the house as soon as he comes home and stays out all evening. Since he's been busy as well and he hates conflict (we all know the type) it's been easy for her to keep pushing things out.

 

And now she's brought home a surprise dog and dumped it on him as something for them to love. I'm grateful she hasn't managed to get herself pregnant but that would require actually having sex.

 

I am basically begging him to drag her to MC. I know better than to hope that a counselor will take one look at this situation and tell them to break up, but they have got to confront this somehow and getting a counselor involved sounds a lot safer than trying to push for a final full-stakes fight at home where she might do something drastic.

 

I don't know what else to do.

[minimariah]

I don't know what else to do.

 

what you've been doing for ages and what you'll continue to do forever -

 

wait.

 

also, i'm not sure what is up with this entire MC idea - it won't fox a thing in this situation. if SHE doesn't want to divorce - they won't divorce. she's obviously the one with the last word in the relationship and he obviously isn't rushing to be divorced as soon as he can so...

[anika99]

So really, there is no update. Everything is still the same. I seriously doubt that the marriage and wife are like your MM describes but even if everything he tells you is the gospel truth, clearly there is nothing you can do about it. Apparently his wife is the one with the power and if that's true then why are you waiting on and pining for a weak, spineless, powerless man?

[stillafool]

If they were happy I would leave it at that and try to be happy for him, but they've only been married a year and they are already wondering if they've made a mistake. He's confided in me about their problems just like I always confided in him, except this time we both admit we are still in love with each other and want to get back together, if only he weren't married. He's never cheated on anyone in his life, that's more something I would have done. That's the problem. We're both worried that I'm only feeling this way about him because he's not available, and that if he does leave his wife for me, I'll lose interest and dump him again, and then everyone loses.

 

Well since you both have admitted you're still in love with each other but his marriage is holding you back why doesn't he just get it annulled or divorce since it's been less than a year. He just has to man up, tell his wife the truth that he doesn't love her but loves you and get a divorce. What is the hold up?

[stillafool]

So it turns out that she's started threatening to kill herself if he leaves her for me, which is why he feels so trapped even though the relationship has basically fallen apart. He's trying to get her to agree to go to counselling with him, which she keeps putting off, right now she's saying she has to finish a school project first and it's not fair to make her deal with relationship problems right now.

 

If he can get her to go, we've agreed that we need to drop contact during that period so he can focus totally on them. If she keeps putting it off, then things get complicated and we have talked about what might happen then.

 

I can't be too angry with her for trying the guilt trap, anything she does I've probably done worse at some point, but it does make me much more certain that he needs to leave her.

 

This is the biggest bunch of bull he is feeding you that I've ever heard. If she is suicidal why is she worried about some project? Why doesn't he call her parents and tell them he is leaving and to take care of her? Why would he need to go silent with you (the love of his life that he is planning to be with) and focus on her? Why wouldn't you two handle this situation together if he was really planning on leaving her and being with you? He is lying.

[somanymistakes]

If he can get her to go, we've agreed that we need to drop contact during that period so he can focus totally on them. If she keeps putting it off, then things get complicated and we have talked about what might happen then.

 

This is the biggest bunch of bull he is feeding you that I've ever heard. If she is suicidal why is she worried about some project? Why doesn't he call her parents and tell them he is leaving and to take care of her? Why would he need to go silent with you (the love of his life that he is planning to be with) and focus on her? Why wouldn't you two handle this situation together if he was really planning on leaving her and being with you? He is lying.

 

Why would he need to go silent? Because I told him that. It was my idea. After all, everyone on these forums talking about marriage counselling says it can't possibly work while the affair is ongoing, right? And people in this thread kept telling me to go NC and wait for him to sort out his own marriage, too? I'm trying to be responsible here!

 

We're not exactly having an affair at this point, since there's no sex and it's not a secret, but if he wants to make a serious effort to connect with her, he probably needs to not be talking to me every step of the way and having my input interfering in the conversation.

 

He is certainly not asking me to back off.

 

I don't think she's seriously suicidal, I think she's pulling that out like she's pulled everything else - to guilt-trip him. And it's effective, because he's a good person who doesn't want to hurt anyone. However, in the absolute heat of the moment, if they're in a full screaming match and he tells her that's it get out NOW, might she do something crazy in a last-ditch effort to keep his attention? I don't know. I do know that I've seen a lot of relationship advice guides suggesting that if someone is making that kind of threats the best way to break up safely is with a trial separation so that you ease out more gently instead of putting everything on one critical moment. I don't want anyone to get hurt.

Edited April 7, 2017 by somanymistakes

[elaine567]

I can see the logic in men with marriages of 15+ years being very unwilling to rock any boats and so they choose to stay with their wife despite professing love for the OW. Practically it makes no sense to leave wife, kids, house, family, friends, neighbours, pets, garden... all for a new relationship that may be more about sex and ego than anything else.

 

But a man who has only been married for a year to an woman with alleged severe mental heath issues I guess would be glad to leave especially when he has a lovely soft landing like somanymistakes waiting for him.

 

My guess his wife is not so "mad" as he says she is, or he just doesn't WANT to leave her.

The attraction of somanymistakes does not apparently trump the life he has with his wife.

Many men are very content with a wife and an OW, they like that arrangement.

[WarriorBabe]

Is there anything you can do at the beginning of what might become an affair, any honorable compromise to deal with the situation of believing that you are truly in love with a married man? If pursuing him is wrong because he's married, but dropping him is also wrong because you love him, what is a smart person supposed to do in that situation before things get out of control?

 

A smart person takes all her strength and respects a marriage. A smart person sees the ending way before the beginning and chooses a path less traveled, less heartache and one with more strength, love and respect.

 

i'm interested in that question in general but if you want to hear my story...

 

He's not some man I met at work who was hiding his ring, he's my ex, the only one I ever really loved, who I dated for four years back in college and broke up with ten years ago due to my own unresolved issues. We've been "friends" ever since, but I know he never got over me and it's been awkward for him watching me go through a string of terrible relationships while he tried to be supportive. We always kept in touch and always still cared about each other. Finally after some therapy and a lot of soul-searching, I got my head on straight and wanted a good man in my life. Of course, in the meantime, he married someone else.

 

While you went through strings of terrible relationships, did he once cross the line and engage you in cheating on your partners?

 

If they were happy I would leave it at that and try to be happy for him, but they've only been married a year and they are already wondering if they've made a mistake. He's confided in me about their problems just like I always confided in him, except this time we both admit we are still in love with each other and want to get back together, if only he weren't married. He's never cheated on anyone in his life, that's more something I would have done. That's the problem. We're both worried that I'm only feeling this way about him because he's not available, and that if he does leave his wife for me, I'll lose interest and dump him again, and then everyone loses.

 

He's confided in you about their problems? Have you spoken to her about the problems he claims they have? This is the typical way a mm gets to have an ap. He talks down on his marriage, pretending that his spouse is an evil person/spouse, just to have an A. When rubber meets the road, the situation is totally different. You said you were smart, be smart and do not feed into his lies. If his marriage is as bad as he says it is, he'd leave. Divorces are not against the law. Taking a chance at happiness is FREE.

 

If I sound like a pretty terrible person, that's why I chose this username. I have made a lot of mistakes.

 

We have not so far had a physical affair, but the things we've said to each other would destroy his wife if she knew. I know I have to try and let go and be just friends if he does choose her, but I still have hope. They haven't been married long, I've known him a lot longer than she has, and they don't have children. He might still choose me.

 

He has already chosen her. He married her. He married her. Marriage. Married her. He chose her when he said "I Do"

 

I don't know what else I can do at this point other than wait and avoid being alone with him in person. I don't want to be a homewrecker but I don't want to give him up either. If he leaves her for me but we don't sleep together until they're separated, is it still wrong?

 

You cannot have it all. This statement you made right here is your stumbling block. It's all about what you want and nothing to do with the respect of a marriage. Just because the man put out the bait, didn't mean you had to bite. You made the decision to travel into unfamiliar territory hoping to become the victor and not be the one left hurting. So in order to prevent yourself from experiencing any type pain, you, along with many other OW, would rather have a BS take the pain you yourself and him caused. No one really wins in a situation like this. Whether you sleep with him or not, you might as well had because it really makes no difference because you both have crossed the line.

[WarriorBabe]

So... some updates. Things have basically been in a holding pattern, going nowhere.

 

Part of this is because he had a huge work commitment for the month of March (something I knew about well in advance, before the EA even started) which meant he basically had no free time at all, so we've only been able to exchange quick messages here and there.

 

Part of this is because his wife is doing her very best to prevent them from dealing with their problems. When she's not refusing to talk because she's 'too busy with school' so it's 'not fair' for him to stress her out with relationship discussions, or yelling at him until he turtles up, or getting hysterical and threatening to hurt herself until he has to calm her down, she simply leaves the house as soon as he comes home and stays out all evening. Since he's been busy as well and he hates conflict (we all know the type) it's been easy for her to keep pushing things out.

 

And now she's brought home a surprise dog and dumped it on him as something for them to love. I'm grateful she hasn't managed to get herself pregnant but that would require actually having sex.

 

I am basically begging him to drag her to MC. I know better than to hope that a counselor will take one look at this situation and tell them to break up, but they have got to confront this somehow and getting a counselor involved sounds a lot safer than trying to push for a final full-stakes fight at home where she might do something drastic.

 

I don't know what else to do.

 

You do not know what to do? Get out of their business is the first step in knowing what to do. Secondly, how do you know so much about the marriage if you are only hearing it from one side? I do not understand how people can believe anything that they hear and swear its facts. That would be like saying you are an intentional homewrecker without me even knowing the full story, correct?

 

I think the best thing for you to do is to exit his marital problems. He's a big boy and old enough to know how to handle his wife. If he did not want her, he knows how to leave her. You are the one being blindsided because you believe everything he tells you about his marital problems. If it was that bad, wouldn't it be obvious that he is a contributing factor to it?

 

You talk bad about the wife and I get it....you wish you were her. I understand it and he knows by dragging his wife through the mud will light your fire to want him. Oldest game in the book and you are signing up for it thinking you are innocent by standing by watching him. When and if dday happens, he will throw you under the bus and all the bad talk you have heard about his w will then be turned on you. Be careful how you respond to a man that will put his wife down. He chose to marry her. He chose to have a lifelong commitment to someone he talks about speaks volume about his character.

[somanymistakes]

When and if dday happens, he will throw you under the bus and all the bad talk you have heard about his w will then be turned on you.

 

It already did, she already knows, and no, that didn't happen.

 

Be careful how you respond to a man that will put his wife down.

 

The way I put it is hardly the same way he puts it. After all, I have no motivation to defend her honor here. Me ranting about it is not going to sound the same.

 

Whether you sleep with him or not, you might as well had because it really makes no difference because you both have crossed the line.

 

So in your estimation, I might as well just go ahead and sleep with him, then?

 

(No, I'm not going to. The difference may not matter to you, but it does matter to me.)

[BTDT2012]

It already did, she already knows, and no, that didn't happen.

 

 

 

The way I put it is hardly the same way he puts it. After all, I have no motivation to defend her honor here. Me ranting about it is not going to sound the same.

 

 

 

So in your estimation, I might as well just go ahead and sleep with him, then?

 

(No, I'm not going to. The difference may not matter to you, but it does matter to me.)

 

You are still in the affair. He is still in the affair.

[WarriorBabe]

It already did, she already knows, and no, that didn't happen.

 

 

 

The way I put it is hardly the same way he puts it. After all, I have no motivation to defend her honor here. Me ranting about it is not going to sound the same.

 

If you had a motivation to defend her honor, you never would have violated her marriage, let alone allow him to talk bad about his wife.

 

So in your estimation, I might as well just go ahead and sleep with him, then?

 

Not in my estimation, but you have crossed the line. Whether you slept with him or not is irrelevant when you have positioned yourself into someone else's marriage.

 

(No, I'm not going to. The difference may not matter to you, but it does matter to me.)

 

 

Have you ever been married? Not in name only or lust only but married?

[somanymistakes]

Have you ever been married? Not in name only or lust only but married?

 

No. He wanted to marry me, long ago, but I ruined it. I didn't think I was cut out to be a wife. I hated myself and I thought he was stupid for wanting me with all my problems. I hurt him intentionally to drive him away, because I didn't think I deserved him.

 

Since then, marriage was never a possibility for me. My parents divorced when I was young and I never wanted that for myself. I don't want to marry anybody unless I am absolutely certain it's forever.

 

At the same time, my parents were right to break up and they should have done it sooner, or never gotten married in the first place. I respect the idea of marriage but I don't think it should be preserved at all costs, not when people are miserable.

 

I wouldn't be in this situation if I believed they were happy together. Since by now I think their whole relationship is a terrible idea, I am in favor of breaking it up. So no, in that way I don't hold marriage sacred. But I will not cross the line into physical unless he officially leaves his wife.

 

My moral line isnt the same as yours but I do have one.

[sandylee1]

So... some updates.

 

Part of this is because his wife is doing her very best to prevent them from dealing with their problems.

 

Sounds like convenient excuses.

 

When she's not refusing to talk because she's 'too busy with school' so it's 'not fair' for him to stress her out with relationship discussions, or yelling at him until he turtles up, or getting hysterical and threatening to hurt herself until he has to calm her down, she simply leaves the house as soon as he comes home and stays out all evening.

 

You only have his word for this... Or are you there when it happens?

 

Since he's been busy as well and he hates conflict (we all know the type) it's been easy for her to keep pushing things out.

 

This is the same way he'll deal with conflict,

If you ever get in an honest open relationship with him. Something to think about

 

And now she's brought home a surprise dog and dumped it on him as something for them to love.

Again, you only have his word for it.

 

I am basically begging him to drag her to MC. I know better than to hope that a counselor will take one look at this situation and tell them to break up, but they have got to confront this somehow and getting a counselor involved sounds a lot safer than trying to push for a final full-stakes fight at home where she might do something drastic.

 

I don't know what else to do.

 

You are way too invested and involved in their marriage.

 

You don't drag a spouse to MC

 

A counsellor will ascertain what the couple want. Not tell them what to do.

 

Whether her suicide threats are true or not, don't you think this is just too much baggage, stress and hassle for you to deal with.

[somanymistakes]

Sure, and maybe his wife doesn't exist at all?

 

Some things I have to rely on his word for, some things I overhear in the background when we're talking or are referenced by other people who know them.

 

A counsellor will ascertain what the couple want. Not tell them what to do.

 

I want a counselor to help them figure out what they want. As I said, I know a counselor isn't just going to tell them to break up. But she's being so ridiculously evasive. It seems obvious to me that she's afraid of losing him but she won't say even that much to him directly. I think she thinks if she can hide from this long enough that he'll give up and the problem will just go away.

 

Maybe being forced to have an open conversation with him will bring them back together and she'll get help and they'll be very happy... that would be sad for me, but I would rather have that outcome the way things are.

 

don't you think this is just too much baggage, stress and hassle for you to deal with

 

It's much more stressful for him than for me, surely.

[Birdies]

Girl you should just back away from this hot mess. I totally get the urge to try to save your lover from his evil wife...I was in a similar situation and I know that sometimes, the bulk of the marital problems really CAN fall on the shoulders of one of the people, especially if she is emotionally unstable.

 

But you are just way too involved, and I don't see how it ends well for you. Either you needle him to leave his marriage until he finally does, and then in the future ANY time he has regrets about it (which we all do - I know I do even though it was for the best, and my former MM does in some ways even though he's very clear on the fact that she was an emotionally unstable and abusive wife), YOU are the scapegoat for that. "Maybe it could have been fixed if Somanymistakes didn't push me into leaving her" etc etc.

 

Or, he doesn't blame you, but you end up with a pansy of a man who needs to be brow beaten by his OW into leaving such a clearly terrible situation. You set up this dynamic where he doesn't take responsibility for making changes in his life and it all falls on you. If he can't even leave his clearly toxic and brand new marriage when he has a loving OW waiting for him, what about the HARD decisions that come along for all of us? Someone that conflict avoidant is a hard person to put your trust in for life.

 

Or, you spend all this mental and emotional energy worrying about him and trying to help him regain his happiness, and in the end, he never mans up and you're left that much more invested and damaged.

 

I would tell him that you love him and you want to be with him, you're cutting of contact for both of your sakes, and he has 3 (or however) many months to show up with a divorce decree and a new living arrangement. If he really wants to be with you, he'll do it. And getting divorced that fast isn't an issue btw - mine was over and done with in 2 weeks. Especially if it's a new marriage without much for mutual property.

 

I truly mean this all in a sincere and helpful way. Again, I was in a similar situation, and it's just not healthy for you. Put you first.