How to make the first move without seeming aggressive/desperate?

[Lotsgoingon]

That description-scenario you lay out ... sounds exhausting to me ... and way too scripted for my taste.

 

I don't want to make every decision a 50-50 decision. If she wants to buy food and cook one night and initiate sex that's fine with me.

 

If I wanna go out to dinner ... I may want to choose the place this time ... and pay ... and she chooses the place the next time .. .and pays if she wants. She chooses the movie at one outing ... I may choose the movie at another outing. The 50-50 comes in my view from the overall relationship over time--not in every decision and every execution of a decision. That's totally exhausting to me.

 

Your view isn't wrong or anything like that but it is specific and unique ... So it makes sense for you to own up to the very specific formula you have for a relationship. You can then focus on finding someone with that similar view of what a good relationship is ...

 

So the question isn't how can you be aggressive without seeming desperate.

 

The question is how can you find someone who has a similar view to yours of what a day-to-day relationship will be like.

[Imajerk17]

You contradict yourself a lot OP so it is hard to give you advice that actually works for you.

 

Didn't you write a thread earlier about how all your male friends want to date you?

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/655705-men-have-too-much-expectation

 

And if your way of approaching dating has worked so well for you in the past (a few posts up here) then why bother making a thread asking for advice

 

Where do you meet guys that you are interested in. What is it about them that you find interesting? Seems like whatever you are doing with your male friends, you should do with the guys you actually want to date. Meanwhile it is hard to meet people if you don't put yourself out there in social situations where connecting with other people is natural, or (via OLD) if you don't bother to put time into your profile and writing guys back.

 

And if you are seeing guys around in a cold approach situation i.e., the grocery store, then you need to understand that (a) too many men have been de-conditioned from cold-approaching, and (b) just as many women are taken so are many guys especially if they are attractive.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Imajerk17

[Mrin]

I will illustrate in examples, I feel that may get my message across better.

 

Him: We need to make a decision about XYZ.

Me: Lets talk about it and figure out what to do/next steps.

Together: we make the decision and follow through with it.

 

Him: Lets go out tonight.

Me: Oh! I know a great place on (location). I pick the time.

Together: we have a great date.

 

Him: Initiates sex.

Me: Initiates sex.

Together: just lots of sex.

 

Him: Pays for the food.

Me: Make meal/dinner/dish.

Together: we are fed.

 

Him: Works and makes more money, I stay home (example)

Me: Make sure his belly is full and balls are empty so he can thrive at work. Make the home.

Together: financial stability, have a home

 

Him: Takes me by the hand to a secret hideout.

Me: I take him next time. Blowjob.

Together: romantic time

 

Him: Made all the weekend plans.

Me: Made all the preparations for those plans.

Together: awesome getaway

 

Him: wants to make an investment

Me: research, discussion,

Together: consultation, decision making

 

See where im going with this? Leading and supporting are both very important roles. You cant have two leaders in a relationship. Again, this is the dynamic I know and love, yet it appears to pose a problem. Im trying to meet halfway by leading at first, but i suppose thats just a false promise. If a man isnt a natural leader, taking the first step for him wont make him one...

 

Hi, I'm Mrin. Join me for dinner and a play on Saturday ;-)

 

Two thoughts for you:

 

1. Appearing Desperate: Here's a truth - if you're a good catch then it is pretty hard to appear desperate to a guy on approach. If you want to parse it a little finer, then just approach with confidence. "Tell me about yourself" rather than "what do you do?". Or "let's do coffee/drinks sometime" vs. "would you like to have coffee/drinks with me?"

 

2. The Meta Issue: The meta issue in all of this is the really strange place we find ourselves in western society these days. Men have been conditioned to restrain our aggressiveness. That doesn't always happen as many women can attest. It is more circumstantial and frankly, dependent on the perceived "value" of the woman. By circumstantially I mean, the environment in which the encounter takes place. If you're in a rowdy bar (or any bar around closing time), men will behave very aggressively. But if you're in a different setting - like the ones you frequent - men will be more passive. Further, if a man perceives a woman as being a good catch, he'll often moderate his aggressiveness to such an extent that it goes into borderline inaction. Which is kinda crazy when you think about it but that's the truth.

 

So, as being a good catch and being in circumstances that aren't conducive to aggressiveness, you need to give them a green light and that probably means starting a conversation. I know that's not how you want it, but that's where we find ourselves.

 

Now, what you've described is a masculine/feminine dynamic. In some ways it is traditional but in other ways it is almost a neo-traditional model where the relationship dynamic embraces the masculine/feminine rather than looks to neuter it. There are tons of very strong, very independent women out there that, like you, crave this dynamic. I applaud you for recognizing this in you.

 

I come to this conversation from a Dom/sub perspective and as such, crave relationships where this masculine/feminine or Dom/sub dynamic is the foundation or bedrock of the relationship. This is first date subject matter. Or even pre-first date. You might not be comfortable having that sort of discussion.

 

That being said, what I think can be taken from the Dom/sub dynamic and brought to the more "vanilla" relationships (as we are wont to call them) is to still have a "preferences" conversation really early on. And what I mean by that is simply exchanging each others "likes" and "dislikes" in a relationship. This is critical for you to have as the neo-traditional model you describe is not the mainstream view of how men should be in a relationship. It is not bossy or masculine at all for you to have or even initiate such a conversation because there is an "allowing-ness" to it where you are opening up an area of the relationship and allowing him to fill it by leading.

 

Anyhow, I hope this helps!

 

Mrin

[preraph]

To meet total strangers, I used to be very aggressive about it but in an odd way.

 

My worst (and earliest) attempt: Went up to a guy in a music bar drunk and told him if he as in a catalog, I'd order two of him. Of course, he was gay. I did sleep with him once but it took about a year and a half and a lot of coincidences, like running into him and his jealous lover hitchhiking in another town. We all ended up crashing at the same house. Hippie days, you know. His jealous and very exotic male lover watched me like a hawk all night, having no doubt heard my come on line. But after he left his lover and was actually hiding from him in my town, living in a couple's attic, where you had to move the fridge to see the stairs leading up, he and I became friends and he disinterestedly acquiesced to my insanity.

 

One of my better ideas for meeting randoms: We used to go to the music bar and to get guys talking to us, we'd fly up to them excitedly and ask "Have you seen Timothy Hutton? We heard he was here!" and then fly on past them, and the ones who wanted to be friendly would come up to see if we ever found him, etc.

 

Get creative. Don't use a bad line like I did though. So embarrassing. I just blurted it out without thinking.

[d0nnivain]

Since time is your first issue, we need to address that. First you may need to leverage technology & your priorities.

 

First comes budget. How much money do you have to work with? Where can you cut if necessary? Are you willing to bring lunch from home or give up your morning coffee to have more money to date / meet people?

 

Assuming budget can be covered, what responsibilities can you delegate? You mention not having time to do things because you have to go to the bank & grocery shop, for example. Well have you tried on line banking & the app that lets you take a photo of your checks to deposit them? You don't have to go the bank any more. Lots of stores let you shop on line & have your groceries delivered. There are meal planning kits you can order which show up ready to make & there is always take out. You mention a dog. Since you enjoy walking your dog, I won't suggest a dog walking service but I will remind you that you can get most of your dog's needs on line too. There are sites where you get dog food & flea & tick meds delivered.

 

You say you go out to eat alone & you hike. Those are both times to meet others. Join a hiking group & hike with others. Look for meet ups focused on dining or attend singles mixers that serve substantial enough appetizers that you can make a whole meal. Another option would be take the dog to a dog park to meet others. I found a singles group called Leashes & Lovers where you could bring your dog.

 

You mention studying. Where do you study? Try studying at the library at a big table to share rather than home or an isolated carrell that screams "leave me alone."

 

 

As for how to approach without seeming aggressive or desperate, it's all in your tone & attitude. Be the one who breaks the ice. Say hi first. Sometimes that initial syllable is the hardest to get out. Be lighthearted not like you are on a quest. Without being cocky, act like you are "all that" & any man is lucky you are talking to him.

 

Make some kind of self deprecating joke, but not necessarily a personal one. It's been raining & grey here for about 10 days. I can barely remember the last nice day. Today was gorgeous, the perfect warm spring day. Almost every stranger I interacted with my banter focused on how wonderful the warm sun felt because I was beginning to feel like a water logged troll with all the dismal rain. Most people engaged me in a few minute dialogue. Had I been single & interested, you just prolong that interaction, leading to an exchange of contact info.

 

When I was single & I wanted to ask a guy out but . . . not, I would arrange it so it was something I was already doing no matter what or at least I could make it look like that. Hey, I have tickets to {event} would you like to come? I'm going to be at XYZ place (a bar, a party, a beach), maybe I'll see you there. Anybody who was interested usually showed up. On a more low key, spur of the moment thing "Hey, I was thinking about checking out [place], do you have any interest in going?"

 

 

While you can't hunt for love & send off a desperate vibe, having a goal to find a healthy, loving, balanced relationship requires you to take affirmative steps to achieve that. I made a point to put myself out there at least one night per week to try to meet new people when I was single. Some times I cheated & combined my search for a BF with my business networking obligations. In fact I met my husband at a business card exchange. If you want to find coupledom, you have to fit opportunities to meet people into your schedule.

[Mr. Lucky]

Its become evident over the years that for whatever reason, men are afraid to approach me. In general im a smiley, open and friendly person, so when I hit on a guy he usually thinks im just being myself (which i am, but with extra intentions wink wink).

 

Tough to give you good feedback when even your first paragraph contradicts itself. In my experience, men aren't afraid to approach "smiley, open and friendly" women and, in fact, every one of my serious relationships started because I sensed a positive, amiable vibe.

 

Either the world sees you differently than you see yourself or you're unintentionally affecting the outcome. Might be time for a more honest appraisal...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Logo]

So far, I’ve picked up

 

“Carnal pleasure”

 

And “make sure his belly is full and balls are empty”. lol

 

You should write poetry. Ummm I kinda like you. I don’t want to say I love you because we haven’t even been on a second date lol (See other thread on this sub forum, you’ll get the context).

 

Ok, on a serious note here, and I’m just guessing, so correct me if I’m wrong, is it possible that men see you as a Tom boy (One of the guys) when what they really want and like is the old fashioned ‘submissive/passive’ partner? The stereotypical “Lady”.

 

Is it possible that your openness and direct approach scares men who like to think of themselves as the ones who — and I’m using a sexist old fashioned term only to make a point — would wear the pants in the relationship?

[Chilli]

God almighty did you ahve blow that to bits logo , just for once it was so damn nice seeing someone not splatter their sex life all over the internet.

 

Anyway hope , l can well appreciate what your saying but the first thing l'm thinking is you said ex's did things old school, l'm not in the states either and l'm use to the same too , doing teh work l mean, male, but if they did back when then someone new would too , when he comes along.

So maybe he just hasn't come along yet.

 

The other thing l'm thinking is that unless, over the years your different now, you do sound say a little wound up , touch coolish come an arrogant tinge. Do you think you are a bit those ways it does often come with age in some women.

Maybe that's why they don't pick you out as much now guys can spot that stuff a mile away and usually don't like those traits , it's nothing to do with intimidation like a lot of women try to tell it, most guys just naturally like warm women.

 

Just thoughts going on things you've said

Edited May 27, 2018 by Chilli

[fredflint]

Its become evident over the years that for whatever reason, men are afraid to approach me. In general im a smiley, open and friendly person, so when I hit on a guy he usually thinks im just being myself (which i am, but with extra intentions wink wink).

 

Whats a way to express (verbally or otherwise) to a guy that im interested without being too explicit and scaring them off? Its like hunting deer, too subtle and you miss, too much and you scare them off.

 

To be honest Im sad that I have to start initiating too. Im already independent in everything else, the least i expect a man to do is at least chase how hes supposed to! (Old school mentality here, and i love gender roles too, its hard to live in such a westernized world when you're eastern European)

 

Im quite a catch. I always get stares and smiles, the occasional compliment, but nothing comes of it and I would rather no attention at all. Its like being told how smart you are but never being picked as a partner in class projects. Its confusing.

 

Ive never been broken up with. Im an awesome girlfriend and always have been, its being chased thats always the issue. Every man who has ever genuinely chased me ended up my boyfriend. All of these relationships have been good and healthy, but few. Do men just not chase anymore?

 

Suggestions?

 

I think it's a mistake for you to look for a man who chases you. Experienced men know that if they start off putting in most of the effort, they often end up with women who are not that into them. That's a joker situation to be in - to put in most of the effort for a mediocre outcome. Sure lots of men will do that for an outcome that's primarily sex-related, because sex is a strong driver, but if that's all it's about, it's a mediocre outcome. Love is more important.

 

It's also a mistake for you for other reasons. The best men don't need to chase. They get hit on from time to time. They are social and attract interest naturally through their personalities as well as looks. So if you want the best men, you're going to notice a difference. If someone who appears to be a great catch is chasing you hard, especially before they really know you, then it's about your looks and sex for them. Do you really want someone that is making that their priority?

 

It's also a mistake given the current social context. There used to be a commercial on TV which showed a random guy in the street noticing the perfumed deodorant a woman was wearing, and immediately being compelled to buy flowers and run to her and give them to her. Of course he was a very handsome man. These days many people would consider that kind of behavior harassment or at best inappropriate. A guy who chases these days is more likely to be regarded as out of touch with social norms.

[Chilli]

Can't agree, social norms in the states maybe but other places do things differently remember.

And chase doesn't mean literally chase as such or some bs ad on tv , and doesn't mean she can't show interest it's just an expression but ya always see the same arguments come up in forums when ever anyone mentions old school even on Ls 20 times since l've been here. Won't go into it but anyway.

 

But say here for example if women are as forward as they are there that's one you'd usually steer well clear of or just a one nighter that's why she has to be so forward.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Chilli

[Logo]

God almighty did you ahve blow that to bits logo , just for once it was so damn nice seeing someone not splatter their sex life all over the internet.

 

 

 

I just found those lines to be entertainingly funny. God almighty, can’t a guy laugh a little?