Is love enough?

[mighty-nerd]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

 

Been married 18 yr. I'm 5.5 years older than her. I work full time and own a small business (consulting engineer). Im early 40s, she late 30s. We have two teenage sons.

 

We fight weekly, now. I think, or I used to think, that I love her. The last few fights, she's mentioned how we've got nothing in common. It's the truth - I'm not interested in anything that she is, and I'm too over worked to have any real hobbies anymore - and when I do engage in them (stuff like gardening or light woodwork), she shows no interest. My "love language" is acts of service, hers was a split between quality time and physical touch. The last few times I did anything that I enjoy, I got the cold shoulder for several days.

 

She is always very very sorry after our fights, doesn't mean the things she said, etc. (One was when I expressed a desire to "fix up" my late father's truck - "you just need to quit wanting to do things"). I don't want to say she's abusive... I guess she has a point, between working two jobs and doing laundry and cooking and outdoor tasks, I don't have much free time. But she is very short and snippy with me most of the time. She insists that I go do something I enjoy, and is then mad for a couple days afterward.

 

I'm kind of lost... she says she loves me, if we're not fighting... but I feel empty and alone all the time. I'm not a priority, her parents and her dogs are. (I despise dogs in the house, yet I allow it). I don't want to be around her, but I don't want to see her hurt. How do I communicate with her, that while I love her, I agree with one of her in-fight statements - that love isn't enough? Is love enough? Am I selfish for wanting someone who makes me feel loved and cared about? Or should I be content with her "I love you"s alone, with no evidence?

[Mr. Lucky]

Interesting that you recognize quality time together is her priority and yet you’re considering new hobbies and projects on top of two jobs. How do you find time for your kids? Can’t help but wonder what the return would be were you fully invested in your marriage? Counseling would be a start...

 

Mr. Lucky

[tojaz]

Love isn't enough if you don't have the actions to back it up. It sounds like you're spreading yourself too thin.

 

If her love language is quality time and you tell us that you don't have much free time between your work, household duties, and your solitary hobbies, what do you think is going to happen?

 

Aside from the already suggested counseling, i'd be looking for an activity that you both could enjoy together. Something common to bring you two closer together. Sounds like shes just looking to be included.

 

What does she enjoy doing?

 

TOJAZ

[bathtub-row]

No, love isn’t enough but oftentimes commitment is. The two of you seem committed to making your marriage work but are both doing badly at it.

 

One thing I’d suggest is that, being an engineer, you may be too analytical and that can often come across as being cold. You can’t analyze a woman or a marriage in the same way you approach an engineering problem. What I’ve seen with a lot of men in your profession is that you don’t know how to turn that off in your personal relationships. I think it would go a long way if you’d try to be warmer and remember how you treated her when the two of you were dating. I see it a lot where men knock themselves out to get the girl but once they have her they think they’re home free. You don’t have to work at it all the time but women need to feel valued and cherished and that feeling is often generated by compliments and spending time together.

 

I think it’s fantastic that you own your own company and your wife would do well to show appreciation for that as well. But it can tear down your relationships, the same way anyone spending too much time at work can. Perhaps you can find a balance and don’t spend time on hobbies until you’ve given time and attention to your wife and kids.

[mighty-nerd]

Interesting that you recognize quality time together is her priority and yet you’re considering new hobbies and projects on top of two jobs. How do you find time for your kids? Can’t help but wonder what the return would be were you fully invested in your marriage? Counseling would be a start...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It's been five years since I've put in a garden or started my table saw. Counseling led us to the love languages quiz. (we stopped going because the counselor had heart surgery). Her interests right now are television and candy-crush type games on the phone. She has done crochetting in the past. She has mentioned making some photo frames and shadow boxes, but when I suggest we look into it, she brushes me off. She is a stay at home parent, and does very little of the household chores; my time with our children is spent cooking and folding laundry. (They are both becoming quite good cooks.)

 

I understand how my original post sounds; what I wasn't clear on is that I've stopped doing anything that only I derive satisfaction from... I watch the crime / police shows that she likes, with her and one of our children, at least an hour a day - I make the effort to ask, "what do we want to do". I've expressed to her how her packing my lunch, or putting away clean laundry, or loading or unloading the dish machine, makes me feel appreciated... yet they never get done.

 

She says she loves me, yet I can't see any evidence. I feel as if I've put forth the effort, both by making her yarn storage stuffs from wood in times past, to spending time with her daily. Am I being selfish for expecting her to make an effort to make me feel loved as well?

 

I love her, I think, but as of the last little while, I'm tending to agree that love is not enough to sustain a marriage...???

[somanymistakes]

She says she loves me, yet I can't see any evidence. I feel as if I've put forth the effort, both by making her yarn storage stuffs from wood in times past, to spending time with her daily. Am I being selfish for expecting her to make an effort to make me feel loved as well?

 

Does she know how you feel?

 

If you have communicated your needs and she can't or won't meet them, then it's not wrong to start thinking about changing the situation.

 

But as long as you are married it is important to let her know what you are thinking about and that you are wondering whether the marriage is sustainable.

[tojaz]

How long have things been like this?

 

When things were good, what kind of things did you connect over and do together when away from the kids?

 

Shes a stay at home mom to two teenagers that are likely becoming more independent by the day. Out of the house more, needing their mom less.

 

There is a very good chance that when you ask her what she wants to do she honestly has no clue what to do outside of the context of her children.

 

You say you feel she makes her parents a bigger priority then you. What is that situation like?

[mighty-nerd]

How long have things been like this?

 

When things were good, what kind of things did you connect over and do together when away from the kids?

 

.....

 

You say you feel she makes her parents a bigger priority then you. What is that situation like?

 

We had a circle of friends that we hung out with; they involved an antique car club and 2-3 times a month we'd meet at one guy's house and make music. Informal jam session.

 

I got her some recording equipment that she asked for, for her birthday; set it up for her, got everything ready. She has yet to use it. It has been sitting for 7 months.

 

The issue with her parents is trivial, I guess. She will get them cards and gifts, prepare a meal, we take them to a movie or otherwise spend the day with them on their birthdays and anniversary. She asked me to fix her dad's car "because they don't have the money". I was chastised for taking the time and making a much more costly repair on my own truck, that we couldn't afford for a shop to do, and it took 1/3 the time her dad's car did. ("you don't have time to work on that"). Mine was 2 evenings after work; her dad's was three full Sundays. (my truck has a diesel engine and my dad was a diesel mechanic and I observed and learned a lot, hence the costly repair labor I saved).

 

I made it clear during counseling that I felt undervalued, unloved, and why. Her response is, "I can't get motivated". Perhaps I need to be more clear in where I'm going?

 

She's often said about other people, "she loves him but isn't IN LOVE with him". I've never understood that, until recently, maybe. I don't want to see her hurt, but it hurts me to think about spending the rest of my life with her, and be treated the way I am. Is that it?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Marriage isn't always about love, but it is always about commitment.

[mighty-nerd]

Marriage isn't always about love, but it is always about commitment.

 

I don't think she's even trying, and I'm tired of trying.

 

When is it OK to just let go and break the other person's heart?

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't think she's even trying, and I'm tired of trying.

 

When is it OK to just let go and break the other person's heart?

 

If she's not even trying, why would your letting go break her heart?

 

Doesn't sound like you made a lot of progress in counseling, might be time to try again with someone else. There are issues in your marriage ranging from communication to expectations. Were it I, I'd want to at least try to address those before simply leaving...

 

Mr. Lucky

[SadHurtAndLost]

You ask if love is enough. Everyone has a different definition of love so depending where you're looking, your idea of love may not be the same as hers. Try to forgive her for the past and think only of the present and the future. You can't change the past, and you can only affect the hear and now, which will have some impact on the future.

 

Write down your hopes and goals and set aside some time with her to calmly review all of the thoughts you have right now about the relationship. Open your heart to her so that you know that you did everything you could and you have no regrets. Then, see what she says in reply. In this way, you can discuss all of the current issues and see if there is any love left and how powerful it is (and if your definition of love is the same as hers). Go slow when you discuss this with her and try to remember how you two fell in love at the beginning.

 

Right now, you have experienced a lot of trauma (and so has she probably). You're probably both scared and untrusting. Therefore, it makes this work even more difficult. So, go slow, and remember that your goal is to work through all of this together. Then, after this conversation, you will have a clear idea of whether you want to pursue this or not.

[mighty-nerd]

 

....

 

Write down your hopes and goals and set aside some time with her to calmly review all of the thoughts you have right now about the relationship. Open your heart to her so that you know that you did everything you could and you have no regrets. Then, see what she says in reply. In this way, you can discuss all of the current issues and see if there is any love left and how powerful it is (and if your definition of love is the same as hers). Go slow when you discuss this with her and try to remember how you two fell in love at the beginning.

 

.....

 

So, go slow, and remember that your goal is to work through all of this together. Then, after this conversation, you will have a clear idea of whether you want to pursue this or not.

 

I actually had not thought to write down and organize my thoughts that way. That should help.

[tojaz]

She asked me to fix her dad's car "because they don't have the money". I was chastised for taking the time and making a much more costly repair on my own truck, that we couldn't afford for a shop to do, and it took 1/3 the time her dad's car did. ("you don't have time to work on that"). Mine was 2 evenings after work; her dad's was three full Sundays. (my truck has a diesel engine and my dad was a diesel mechanic and I observed and learned a lot, hence the costly repair labor I saved).

 

If you didn't have time to work on your truck, then what would she have preferred you spend time on?

 

I don't think she's even trying, and I'm tired of trying.

 

When is it OK to just let go and break the other person's heart?

 

Please correct me if I have this wrong but when I read this, it sounds to me like someone that has already checked out. Posting here looking for permission rather then advice.

 

I think there's a chance that you're both trying but neither of you really has the tools to fix what needs fixing.

 

If you're still interested in putting things back together, I would suggest finding another counselor and giving that another shot, if for no other reason then to be able to say you gave things every chance.

[BluesPower]

Let's see if I understand...

 

You work 2 jobs, and you do the cooking, and the laundry, and you have 2 teenage kids.

 

Why do you do this? What does she do? Does she work 2 jobs? Do your kids know how to clean or do laundry?

 

Answer these questions... And think about this...

 

You are being a chump. You are totally being taken advantage of by your wife, and your kids.

 

You sir are an ATM machine, and an annoyance to your wife.

 

You don't want to hurt her? WTF about you?

 

Give us some answers to these questions...

[mighty-nerd]

If you didn't have time to work on your truck, then what would she have preferred you spend time on?

 

I wasn't inside the house with her, watching TV.

 

 

 

 

Please correct me if I have this wrong but when I read this, it sounds to me like someone that has already checked out. Posting here looking for permission rather then advice.

 

We had a go last night. She wanted to fight but I refused to take the bait. Sitting here reflecting, I think you're right.

 

I think there's a chance that you're both trying but neither of you really has the tools to fix what needs fixing.

 

If you're still interested in putting things back together, I would suggest finding another counselor and giving that another shot, if for no other reason then to be able to say you gave things every chance.

 

I may revisit the topic of counseling with her. If she resists, then I can be guilt free. Maybe.

 

Thanks for the clarity...

[mighty-nerd]

Let's see if I understand...

 

You work 2 jobs, and you do the cooking, and the laundry, and you have 2 teenage kids.

 

Why do you do this? What does she do? Does she work 2 jobs? Do your kids know how to clean or do laundry?

 

1) It needs to be done by someone. I can't stand to be idle.

2) She handles her share of the kids' school functions.

3) She hasn't had a public job since our 16 year old was born. She's done some at-home stuff (think network marketing, sales from home. no significant income)

4) Yep. They pitch in and do their share when schoolwork isn't a priority. Oldest is becoming a good cook. Younger one is a neat freak.

 

 

You sir are an ATM machine, and an annoyance to your wife.

 

You don't want to hurt her? WTF about you?

 

Give us some answers to these questions...

 

I've felt this way for a while. Nobody wants to admit to being played for a fool. I guess I came here for affirmation that I'm doing all I should... but as another poster said, am looking for permission to end this.

[BluesPower]

1) It needs to be done by someone. I can't stand to be idle.

2) She handles her share of the kids' school functions.

3) She hasn't had a public job since our 16 year old was born. She's done some at-home stuff (think network marketing, sales from home. no significant income)

4) Yep. They pitch in and do their share when schoolwork isn't a priority. Oldest is becoming a good cook. Younger one is a neat freak.

 

I've felt this way for a while. Nobody wants to admit to being played for a fool. I guess I came here for affirmation that I'm doing all I should... but as another poster said, am looking for permission to end this.

 

For goodness sake... you have my permission if it matters.

 

Are you starting to realize the she has been doing nothing but using you your entire marriage?

 

I know that hurts, but you are not the only one that has had that happen.

 

Dude, you need to file for divorce and get a life...

[mighty-nerd]

I read everyone's replies, talked to a couple of divorced friends (who are trustworthy and respectable folks), considered the worst and best outcomes, and I've come to the conclusion that I need to seek an end to my marriage.

 

And I've slept better and been calmer in the past few days, than I have in a long while.

 

I'm not looking forward to breaking the news to her; but discontent is the first step of progress.

 

Thanks for everyone's insight. It helped me to consider more point of view and make a more sound decision.

 

I believe she was right... love is not enough!

[somanymistakes]

Good luck!

[mighty-nerd]

Good luck!

 

This is so much harder than I imagined... I've talked with my sons, and one is OK but the younger just sat silently.

 

I've written her a letter... a lot of emotions poured out as I composed it. I've got the support of friends and family who know her and her ways.

 

Yet I'm still struggling to initiate the conversation. To say that "There are no more tries, there are no more second chances".

 

Pointers for breaking the news to her appreciated.

[central]

I was going to post and suggest you end your marriage, but you've already reached that conclusion. And no, love is NOT enough, even when BOTH people love each other. Love requires action to express it to the other person, and while you are doing everything except become a couch potato for her, she is doing little. Love is necessary, but it is never sufficient by itself.

[BluesPower]

This is so much harder than I imagined... I've talked with my sons, and one is OK but the younger just sat silently.

 

I've written her a letter... a lot of emotions poured out as I composed it. I've got the support of friends and family who know her and her ways.

 

Yet I'm still struggling to initiate the conversation. To say that "There are no more tries, there are no more second chances".

 

Pointers for breaking the news to her appreciated.

 

File for divorce and have her served. It is the cleanest way.

 

Don't get into a conversation about this with her. When she wants to talk, you say, "Look, I have talked, I have tried to get you to wake up, you have not. I have a right to be happy, and maybe you can be happy too, but without me."

 

Frankly, the way that she is acting, I think she will be relieved in a way.

 

She does not love you, unfortunately I am not sure that she ever has.

 

File and move on...

[mighty-nerd]

So - 9 days ago I told her that I want out. We were having an argument and her temper exploded. I told he that I wanted out. She recanted, begged, etc. We calmed down and went to bed. We continued the discussion the next night. The third day (7 days ago) I didn't work, we talked through things, it escalated quickly, and she got angry again.

 

And she attempted suicide by intentionally overdosing.

 

She was in the regular hospital for observation. She asked if I still wanted out. I said I didn't want out, but that I didn't want to be in a position again to be hurt.

 

She's in detox now for the narcotic addiction, and also for some psych med adjustment. I'm alone with my sons and there's peace in the house.

 

When she is able to make calls, she calls and talks about our future together.

 

I still want out. I love her, but I can never trust her again. I'm referring to things more than the attempt... general attitudes.

 

How do you tell a person in a mental institution that you still want out?

[Garlend]

So - 9 days ago I told her that I want out. We were having an argument and her temper exploded. I told he that I wanted out. She recanted, begged, etc. We calmed down and went to bed. We continued the discussion the next night. The third day (7 days ago) I didn't work, we talked through things, it escalated quickly, and she got angry again.

 

And she attempted suicide by intentionally overdosing.

 

She was in the regular hospital for observation. She asked if I still wanted out. I said I didn't want out, but that I didn't want to be in a position again to be hurt.

 

She's in detox now for the narcotic addiction, and also for some psych med adjustment. I'm alone with my sons and there's peace in the house.

 

When she is able to make calls, she calls and talks about our future together.

 

I still want out. I love her, but I can never trust her again. I'm referring to things more than the attempt... general attitudes.

 

How do you tell a person in a mental institution that you still want out?

 

You don't tell her until it is determined she has regained full control of her faculties again, and is released from confinement. Then, you do so with divorce documents. Let them do your talking for you. Whatever she does after this is beyond your control and responsibility.

 

Don't think I don't have prior experience with lunacy following a breakup. I was the male version of Betty Broderick in a very dark part of my past. I was one trigger pull away from ending her evil life... 'nough said.