Guy Friend Wrote Me a Letter and I am

[Veronica73]

And I say I’m not religious, but I was raised Lutheran and went to Catholic school, so I am familiar and think I share a similar values.

[natalie2018]

Okay...his letter was a bit over-the-top and nutty to be sure, but I don’t think he was harassing you by any means, and if you want to see an approach fueled by lust, join tinder. He was very kind and gracious. You’re the one who was rubbing up against him after you rejected him, and complained about him giving you physical space. I don’t get it. I don’t see how you can refuse to be friends with men out of respect for your future husband, and at the same time refuse to date a man unless you can see marrying him. How can you know so quickly? Unless you believe in arranged marriages or something. Or love at first sight. I’m not religious, so this may not apply to you at all, but it seems crazy to expect a guy you have never dated before to declare his love for you and put you first in front of his own self-respect and his career aspirations. That’s what crazy future stalker/abusers/sociopaths/control-freaks do. And I’ve dated a few of them.

 

Maybe stick to guys from your church...? Your expectations just seem really, really out there. Or maybe in the south or religious enclaves this is all normal. Are you in Northern California?

 

Put it this way, I made my no clear to him and if he contacts me, I will contact the university police because even my pastor said this sounded like a man who was not thinking of my best interests. It is harassment if he contacts me again. No means no. I said the friendship is not there and I hope he will respect that and move on. My pastor said he would be ashamed of his son for objectifying a woman by letter.

 

I do believe in love at first sight and people knowing that they will marry you before dating. My minister had that happen, my mother was saved by Christ when my father and her split and she met my now step-father, and so on. You will know if he is right.

 

I am in Southern California. I can have male friends, but I choose not to. Would you date a man with too many female friends? J had a few and I felt uncomfortable. Yes, they were married to his male friends, but I find that a woman should reserve friendly terms with her female friends and her partner.

[preraph]

Natalie, when the right one comes along, it won't be a struggle. Love shouldn't be hard or frustrating or painful for either side. When it is, you know, he's not the one.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Put it this way, I made my no clear to him and if he contacts me, I will contact the university police

 

Oh good (non-denominational) heavens! :confused::confused:

[natalie2018]

Natalie, when the right one comes along, it won't be a struggle. Love shouldn't be hard or frustrating or painful for either side. When it is, you know, he's not the one.

 

Thank you. As I said, he was sweet to me. Just not husband material. If I gave him the impression that he was led on, then I never meant to. Flirting is not a promise. I thought he was the one at one point, but God made it clear that there is something better for me.

Edited June 2, 2018 by natalie2018

[Veronica73]

Put it this way, I made my no clear to him and if he contacts me, I will contact the university police because even my pastor said this sounded like a man who was not thinking of my best interests. It is harassment if he contacts me again. No means no. I said the friendship is not there and I hope he will respect that and move on. My pastor said he would be ashamed of his son for objectifying a woman by letter.

 

I do believe in love at first sight and people knowing that they will marry you before dating. My minister had that happen, my mother was saved by Christ when my father and her split and she met my now step-father, and so on. You will know if he is right.

 

I am in Southern California. I can have male friends, but I choose not to. Would you date a man with too many female friends? J had a few and I felt uncomfortable. Yes, they were married to his male friends, but I find that a woman should reserve friendly terms with her female friends and her partner.

 

That’s fine, and I appreciate your explanation. I do think you may have a bit of a hard time if you don’t limit yourself to people who have the same beliefs as you. I hope it works out for you and wish you the best.

 

And yes, I would have a problem dating a man with too many female friends, particularly if they were close female friends. Like I wouldn’t want him traveling alone with them or taking them out to nice restaurants alone, or drinking a lot with them. But at the same time, I have a couple of male friends. I’m trustworthy and honest and devoted and always put my partner first (well I’m currently single, but it applied when I was with someone). I don’t think people should refuse to be friends with half of the population. Unless you have such low opinion of your partner (or so afraid of other people’s opinion about your relationship) that you think they are unable to control themselves when they are in the presence of someone of the opposite sex. Which is a pretty dehumanizing and depressing way to look at the world. And frankly says more about yourself and your beliefs than anything.

 

But again, this is probably a culture clash. And probably why so few people are being supportive of your behavior, yet all your friends and pastor agree with you.

 

Edit: and when I said it’s fine, I wasn’t including the first paragraph. That’s just...I feel bad for the guy. You’re obviously not right for each other, but this all went off the rails very quickly.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Veronica73

[natalie2018]

That’s fine, and I appreciate your explanation. I do think you may have a bit of a hard time if you don’t limit yourself to people who have the same beliefs as you. I hope it works out for you and wish you the best.

 

And yes, I would have a problem dating a man with too many female friends, particularly if they were close female friends. Like I wouldn’t want him traveling alone with them or taking them out to nice restaurants alone, or drinking a lot with them. But at the same time, I have a couple of male friends. I’m trustworthy and honest and devoted and always put my partner first (well I’m currently single, but it applied when I was with someone). I don’t think people should refuse to be friends with half of the population. Unless you have such low opinion of your partner (or so afraid of other people’s opinion about your relationship) that you think they are unable to control themselves when they are in the presence of someone of the opposite sex. Which is a pretty dehumanizing and depressing way to look at the world. And frankly says more about yourself and your beliefs than anything.

 

But again, this is probably a culture clash. And probably why so few people are being supportive of your behavior, yet all your friends and pastor agree with you.

 

Thank you. I do not mean to sound heartless, but he needs to move on. I thought he was the one at one point, but he is not and I will not tolerate any violation of my boundaries. I apologize if he gets the impression that he was led on, it was not my intention, but I know I am forgiven in the eyes of God. We are all sinners, so he will be forgiven as will I.

 

He is a good man, but he needs to realize that God will fulfill his love life and his desires to not matter in the eyes of God. He does not drink, smoke, consume foul media, or engage in behavior that defaces God, so he just needs to wait for God to fulfill His will. As long as he respects my boundaries and is patient, God will deliver.

[Veronica73]

And you know what else.... and this is the totally bat**** crazy part which makes me feel sorry for men...

 

After you sent that first email after he poured his heart out and you shut him down and friend-zoned him... you were upset that he didn’t continue to pursue you (he respected your no), because he should fight for love. But now, all of a sudden, if he contacts you again, you’re going to call the police on him. That is seriously effed up. I’m sorry, but it is. But I still hope you find what you are looking for.

[natalie2018]

And you know what else.... and this is the totally bat**** crazy part which makes me feel sorry for men...

 

After you sent that first email after he poured his heart out and you shut him down and friend-zoned him... you were upset that he didn’t continue to pursue you (he respected your no), because he should fight for love. But now, all of a sudden, if he contacts you again, you’re going to call the police on him. That is seriously effed up. I’m sorry, but it is. But I still hope you find what you are looking for.

 

That was my pastor's advice. I am not as far as my pastor. My pastor says he sounds like a stalker. He told me to ignore his emails, block him, and everything. I told him he is a good person, but he says he sees me as more of a conquest than a person because of lust.

 

My pastor said he sounds more concerned with material desires than human connection. He referenced him coming from a wealthy family and pursuing passion rather than the Lord.

Edited June 2, 2018 by natalie2018

[Veronica73]

That was my pastor's advice. I am not as far as my pastor. My pastor says he sounds like a stalker. He told me to ignore his emails, block him, and everything. I told him he is a good person, but he says he sees me as more of a conquest than a person because of lust.

 

My pastor said he sounds more concerned with material desires than human connection. He referenced him coming from a wealthy family and pursuing passion rather than the Lord.

 

And you talked of yourself as coming from a family of actors and how you graduated from college early and you’re going to have a great career and how that makes you such a catch, while all he is going to be is a “glorified bus driver”.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

That was my pastor's advice. I am not as far as my pastor. My pastor says he sounds like a stalker. He told me to ignore his emails, block him, and everything. I told him he is a good person, but he says he sees me as more of a conquest than a person because of lust.

 

My pastor said he sounds more concerned with material desires than human connection. He referenced him coming from a wealthy family and pursuing passion rather than the Lord.

 

Sounds like your pastor is missing a lot of key information that would have enabled him to give more appropriate advice. Based on what we've observed of how you communicate, this does not surprise me. I can't imagine you gave him a 100% accurate picture of things.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

And you know what else.... and this is the totally bat**** crazy part which makes me feel sorry for men...

 

After you sent that first email after he poured his heart out and you shut him down and friend-zoned him... you were upset that he didn’t continue to pursue you (he respected your no), because he should fight for love. But now, all of a sudden, if he contacts you again, you’re going to call the police on him. That is seriously effed up. I’m sorry, but it is. But I still hope you find what you are looking for.

 

A thousand times this!

[natalie2018]

And you talked of yourself as coming from a family of actors and how you graduated from college early and you’re going to have a great career and how that makes you such a catch, while all he is going to be is a “glorified bus driver”.

 

I hope to work in humanitarian aid. My family graciously gives back to the community.

 

My career glorifies God. I love his passion, but how does flying airplanes glorify God? He is more willing to put faith in a machine rather than God. He has great courage and I respect that. His professional associates have already shown their colors. His friend already told him that when he sees me at a reunion with an expensive watch on his wrist that I will regret my decision. That is materialistic and not glorifying God.

[Veronica73]

Well, if he actually stalks you, then by all means, call the police. But you can’t tell him no in one instance, and then get mad at him for respecting your wishes, and then when he senses you are mad at him for being distant and tries to make sure you know that he wants to be with you, you decide to call the police on him if he ever tries to contact you again. I mean, obviously you can, but it could go on his record and seriously harm his future prospects which isn’t really fair. And maybe he’s done a lot of other stuff you haven’t explained. But it sounds like the first time you said no he respected that and you made it clear that you were displeased with that and that he should have pursued you even though you said no. And now he should understand that no really does mean no, even though it didn’t really mean no the last time you said it.

[Veronica73]

I hope to work in humanitarian aid. My family graciously gives back to the community.

 

My career glorifies God. I love his passion, but how does flying airplanes glorify God? He is more willing to put faith in a machine rather than God. He has great courage and I respect that. His professional associates have already shown their colors. His friend already told him that when he sees me at a reunion with an expensive watch on his wrist that I will regret my decision. That is materialistic and not glorifying God.

 

I’m not criticizing your family. And I think working in humanitarian aid is wonderful and I applaud you for that. But when somebody suggested you’re not such a great catch yourself, you resorted to shallow, material reasons as to why you are such a great catch. (Like education, your parents’ careers, and comparing his career as to that of a bus driver,as if that was beneath you and your upbringing.)

 

And valuing a fancy watch is certainly shallow. But he didn’t do it himself. His friend did. And putting yourself in mortal danger for the good of your fellow countrymen could certainly be seen as noble.

[natalie2018]

Well, if he actually stalks you, then by all means, call the police. But you can’t tell him no in one instance, and then get mad at him for respecting your wishes, and then when he senses you are mad at him for being distant and tries to make sure you know that he wants to be with you, you decide to call the police on him if he ever tries to contact you again. I mean, obviously you can, but it could go on his record and seriously harm his future prospects which isn’t really fair. And maybe he’s done a lot of other stuff you haven’t explained. But it sounds like the first time you said no he respected that and you made it clear that you were displeased with that and that he should have pursued you even though you said no. And now he should understand that no really does mean no, even though it didn’t really mean no the last time you said it.

 

I will be clear, he has been nothing but a gentleman. I wrote that on an email and I stand by that. He has never stalked me, but my pastor thinks that letter means he is. That is my pastor and he says that I need to set firm boundaries, but I did not let him or my parents know that I have had a secret friendship with this guy for two years. I agree with my pastor and if he is a gentleman he will respect that. This is why I said hard to get was stupid on my part because it did mess with his head. And to be fair, he did say he did not ask me out earlier because he did not want to create discomfort if I did not want to go out. His letter is the only thing my pastor says represents a stalker. That being said, he has never bothered me by phone or text or email and he gave me his address if I wanted to talk to him.

Edited June 2, 2018 by natalie2018

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I love his passion, but how does flying airplanes glorify God? He is more willing to put faith in a machine rather than God.

 

Dear girl, you are so misguided. There are SO many ways God could use a man or woman in ANY position. In 20 years, you will look back on this post and shake your head at your judgmental self, trust me.

[Veronica73]

Well, if the letter is the only thing your pastor has to go by, it does seem stalkerish. But he has seemed kind and decent after that. But for sure he went overboard in that first letter. But you have also sent some really confusing mixed messages. Sooo... basically it sounds like you guys aren’t right for each other. And I’m certainly not saying don’t contact the police if you don’t feel safe. But maybe try to be more clear and direct the next time. You are sending out some pretty mixed up signals.

[natalie2018]

I’m not criticizing your family. And I think working in humanitarian aid is wonderful and I applaud you for that. But when somebody suggested you’re not such a great catch yourself, you resorted to shallow, material reasons as to why you are such a great catch. (Like education, your parents’ careers, and comparing his career as to that of a bus driver,as if that was beneath you and your upbringing.)

 

And valuing a fancy watch is certainly shallow. But he didn’t do it himself. His friend did. And putting yourself in mortal danger for the good of your fellow countrymen could certainly be seen as noble.

 

I understand what you are saying. I mean, I do think the military is noble. No question. However, he is obsessed with flying. Purpose is beautiful, but I wonder if others could be seen as an obstacle to his ambition.

 

Yes, I said those things and I acknowledge that. I was in a very bad place. And he does have a great family. A lot of veterans and civil servants.

[natalie2018]

Well, if the letter is the only thing your pastor has to go by, it does seem stalkerish. But he has seemed kind and decent after that. But for sure he went overboard in that first letter. But you have also sent some really confusing mixed messages. Sooo... basically it sounds like you guys aren’t right for each other. And I’m certainly not saying don’t contact the police if you don’t feel safe. But maybe try to be more clear and direct the next time. You are sending out some pretty mixed up signals.

 

And I will say, I told him that I appreciated his candidness in his letter. I really did. He said he only did it because he tried saying things to me face to face and he thought he was not getting through to me. What my pastor does not realize is that while I may be the more religious one, J is the more conservative one in conduct. Like he does not believe in sharing a bed until marriage which I agree with. He wrote that entire letter by hand and delivered it to me by hand. He never, and I was shocked, would respond to a physical flirt. I've had guys look at me when I bend over to pick something up or when I have a conversation they look below my neckline. He was always straight into the eyes with no wandering. I'd leave my phone out and pretend like I was texting another guy and he never tried to sneak a peek at who I was texting.

[natalie2018]

My pastor said this and my pastor said that. Sigh. As much as I do respect people and their religion, it sounds to me like that pastor dictates how you will live your life, and essentially makes your decisions for you. Seems more cultish than churchish to me. Oh, and I am a reverend saying this, by the way.

 

I understand that criticism. Even my friends said that. I was troubled when he said J does not love me, but is lusting over me. I never told him that J was checking up on me when I was sick and all of that. It felt like J saw more than lust in me. So, he called me parents and I'm in my 20s and that is how my mother got involved.

[natalie2018]

Dear girl, you are so misguided. There are SO many ways God could use a man or woman in ANY position. In 20 years, you will look back on this post and shake your head at your judgmental self, trust me.

 

I understand your perspective. I feel bad for the damage I have done, but even if me and him stayed friends, I would eventually have to tell him we cannot talk anymore when I found a potential partner. As I said, I would prefer someone who has a lesson to serve God. His passion is more of desire.

[natalie2018]

My pastor said this and my pastor said that. Sigh. As much as I do respect people and their religion, it sounds to me like that pastor dictates how you will live your life, and essentially makes your decisions for you. Seems more cultish than churchish to me. Oh, and I am a reverend saying this, by the way.

 

Can I ask your opinion then? Is cutting off ties with J the right decision? I know what my pastor says about friends of the opposite gender, but is it really as serious as he says?

[Veronica73]

Hey Natalie... I should admit this too... I didn’t read his ENTIRE letter. I couldn’t get through it. I read most of it and skimmed the rest. It mostly seemed liked over-the-top admiration of you and putting you on a pedestal, which can certainly be concerning. Like I said, it was too much. But in your subsequent interactions he seemed okay.

 

I just wanted to let you know that so you don’t put too much value on what I said.

[donotmicrowave]

Can I ask your opinion then? Is cutting off ties with J the right decision? I know what my pastor says about friends of the opposite gender, but is it really as serious as he says?

 

You didn’t ask this from me, but you still don’t get it. That young man poured his heart out to you. You played with it. Rejected, then flirted, then rejected again and got pissed. You blame everyone but yourself, yet all in all, you really just wanted him obsessed with you. It’s obvious to me.

 

His intentions were clear and he made himself vulnerable for you. You staying out of his life is what’s best for him.