Why can't people be liked for who they are

[Normm]

You miss the point entirely. My point is people pretend to be what they are not in the hope that someone may like that version of them. I don't pretend to be anything but myself and no I don't like false people either.

 

ZA, You seem to be running into a lot of fake people. More than would be statistically probable. Either you've got really bad luck or the problem is with you, not them.

 

Sure we try to put our best foot forward so as to make a good impression on a person we hope to get to know better. If things work out and we end up in a relationship with them, over time we relax a bit and some of our negative attributes will come out- we all have them, nobody's perfect- but you don't want to overwhelm a person you just met with your less than desirable attributes.

 

For example, my GF of 6 years has no problems entering the bathroom while I'm shaving, squatting on the bowl, pissing and even blowing a few farts for good measure. I don't like it, I told her as much, I'll leave the room immediately but she thinks I'm being unreasonable and she won't stop.

 

I put up with it now but if she did it on the first date there probably wouldn't have been a second one.

 

The guy who sits talking BS to some lady in the hope he can take her home later, that's that I am talking about. I fully accept few people like me.

 

There you go again. You're special, you're one of a select few that's honest about themselves from the very start, and that's why you are a failure at dating. It's not that you're doing something wrong, it's just that everybody you meet is below your standards.

 

If the price I have to be is never being with anyone and never dating them I need to be ready to pay it because the day I follow the crowd I may as well give up on everything I believe in and stand for.

 

Such drama. Yes you're paying the price each and every day and your 100s or thousands of posts are testimonial to your dating failures and continued frustrations.

 

It may have nothing whatsover to do with your approach, or your need to be 100% honest about who you are and expect the same in return. It appears that potential dating partners just think you're weird and once they meet you they have no interest in taking things further so no matter what you say or do will matter. Unfortunately you'll never know which it is because you are inflexible and unwilling to change your attitude and approach.

 

The point is I don't know what these people expect! They give me nothing conversationally and hope I will like them, I take an interest but they don't reciprocate that interest, why bother to come along if that's the tactic?

 

How do you know they hope you will like them? Could very well be that once they are sitting across from you they're thinking "This guy isn't for me when can I get the heck out of here". They've got nothing to say to you because they just want the date to be over. Do you see how you're putting all of the problems on them when it really could be the problem is with you? Given that you are always the common denominator, I know where I'm putting my money.

 

Yes, I think I get it now and yes now I know why I am so bad at this.

 

Doesn't appear that you are getting it at all.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

My point is people pretend to be what they are not in the hope that someone may like that version of them. I don't pretend to be anything but myself.

 

Then logic would say you are unlikable. Maybe you should figure out why.

[JuneL]

 

There you go again. You're special, you're one of a select few that's honest about themselves from the very start, and that's why you are a failure at dating. It's not that you're doing something wrong, it's just that everybody you meet is below your standards.

 

 

 

Such drama. Yes you're paying the price each and every day and your 100s or thousands of posts are testimonial to your dating failures and continued frustrations.

 

It may have nothing whatsover to do with your approach, or your need to be 100% honest about who you are and expect the same in return. It appears that potential dating partners just think you're weird and once they meet you they have no interest in taking things further so no matter what you say or do will matter. Unfortunately you'll never know which it is because you are inflexible and unwilling to change your attitude and approach.

 

 

 

How do you know they hope you will like them? Could very well be that once they are sitting across from you they're thinking "This guy isn't for me when can I get the heck out of here". They've got nothing to say to you because they just want the date to be over. Do you see how you're putting all of the problems on them when it really could be the problem is with you? Given that you are always the common denominator, I know where I'm putting my money.

 

 

 

Doesn't appear that you are getting it at all.

 

Superlike!!!

[JuneL]

I’ve met guys exactly described by Normm. The thing is, when you try to be polite and carry on an engaging conversation with them, they automatically become very attached to you. I had one guy who would keep sending me messages for months, even though my replies were brief and with very long delays.

[ZA Dater]

What's become really evident is that you keep calling people sheep but you're the biggest sheep of all.

Sheep never take a risk, never 'think' outside of a patch of grass, never diversify. Every single poster here has taken risks, has thought outside, has diversified and has learned not to do the same thing time and again expecting a different result.

I am pretty sure that sometime in the near future you will post again about a date that you went on with a women you weren't interested in and pretty much the same thread will transpire again. Just like risk management - you look at a history and weigh the odds of the same exact thing happening. If we look at your posting history then we all know that new thread is on it's way soon because the probability is so so high.

When your friends have tried to help and teased you it's because they've been acting as the sheepdog. Trying to scare you with the teasing just enough hoping you'll man up, take the responsibility, stick up for yourself, prove them wrong. The way to know that for sure is that you'll see eyerolls and shrugs from those teasing you when you don't take the reigns.

 

And that thing that you call fakery? It's actually called flirting. Both men and women know it's that and know absolutely it has that OTT element and my goodness it's so much fun!

 

 

 

1: Not really, thankfully I have better things which bring me better returns than going on dates with people I don't like from the off.

 

 

That's a step beyond assumption. They haven't tried to help me in any constructive way and you know this because you even agreed with my comments on it. I am quite good at sticking up for myself thanks, I certainly don't need their help to do that, nor do I need to be embarrassed with them trying to force strangers to go out with me. Tell me, would you enjoy that?

 

 

Glad you find it fun, I call it over embellishment at the least and blatant deception at the worst.

 

 

Its a bit rich telling me to diversify considering the variety of people I have gone on dates and humoured in the hope there is something about them I might like OH I get it I must keep seeing them in the hope something magically impresses me, that's like buying a sweater you don't like and hoping if you wear it enough you might end up liking it. But hey, what I do I know.

[Normm]

1: Not really, thankfully I have better things which bring me better returns than going on dates with people I don't like from the off.

 

 

From what I read you aren't getting ANY returns.

[ZA Dater]

What do you bring to your dates, what do you offer that makes you more appealing than your competition? What is in it for the women who date you?

 

From what I read, you have a strong sense of entitlement and think many other men don't deserve to get the women they get.

 

Yet they are obviously doing what works for them and far more importantly works for the women who they pursue. That doesn't mean they are losers or pretenders, what it does mean however is they are successful at what you seem determined to fail at.

 

Life isn't fair, no one owes you anything, especially the women who you want.

 

As to your schtick about being unattractive, I say that is superfluous piffle. Seriously if you had two heads you wouldn't even get first dates, yet you do so your appearance is okay and your dates evidently think so in the first instance otherwise they wouldn't go on a date with you.

 

At the end of the day, the most significant impediments you face, are your own sense of entitlement versus what you offer, blame shifting, ego protection, hypocrisy and an inability to be charming (i.e. be pleasant, make someone feel comfortable, bring them out of themselves and feel some rapport with you). Combined with a rigidness that gets you nothing of what you want.

 

Back to what do you bring, do your dates enjoy themselves with you on your dates?

 

Are they happy dating you, do they have fun, are they laughing, do they want to touch you?

 

Does your rapport and banter with them encourage them to move closer to you, do you feel the buzzing of sexual tension from them, does the air feel thick like butter when you are looking them in the eye?

 

Do you hold their eyes, and look into them, without being creepy or staring?

 

Be honest is your conversation flat, somewhat stale and rather boring?

 

Seriously droning on even with a women who is intellectually accomplished, yet wants to just have a fun on a date is not the way into her pants or heart.

 

Is your picker broken or does the weight of your personality kill off any chance you have from the moment you open your mouth with your dates? I lean towards the latter, yet the former may sometimes happen as well.

 

Back to being charming, being charming doesn't require someone to lie or to pretend to be something they're not. It is simply being pleasant company, in a manner that is appealing to that company.

 

Anyway that's it from me for the moment.

 

 

 

What do I bring: authenticity. I don't pretend to be something and someone I am not.

 

 

What's in it for them: no idea, clearly nothing based on the calibre of people I seem to attract.

 

 

Those who get my dry humour laugh, the rest completely miss it and I need to them try some self deprecating humour, which seems to be universally understood.

 

 

Nope they never move closer and the air remains quite the same, never felt the need to look into any of their eyes because usually within 15 minutes I have decided I am not interested.

 

 

I try get them to laugh, try take an interest in them but fun, no I don't think there is one ounce of fun about me. Serious Sam perhaps but fun, no life is too serious for that. Perhaps if I drop all the walls down I could be fun but she would need to be someone I was comfortable and found amazing is some way. I have never ever been fun so the fact I am not is not real surprise.

 

 

My personality is clearly not universally liked and to be honest most of the personalities I have encountered weren't appealing either.

 

 

However apparently I am not quite as completely useless at this as some might imagine because I did once get "I had a good time with you", admittedly that was a non single friend but I'll throw it here anyway.

 

 

Charm I have none of it, though strangely I can command an audience when I speak.

[ZA Dater]

From what I read you aren't getting ANY returns.

 

 

 

I am in the sense I spend that time doing things which are a heck of a lot more interesting than sitting at some dinner date with someone who is unsuitable from the outset.

 

 

But hey 5X5 has already established my goal with dating is wrong so I am prepared to conceded I should be going on each date with the idea of getting laid.

[Normm]

Those who get my dry humour laugh, the rest completely miss it

 

My 89 year old dad is like that!

 

I was visiting him once and we went to refill a prescription in the pharmacy and there was an attractive girl behind the counter and he started in with "maybe you can come home with me and help me with my medications". She didn't think it was funny she appeared a bit upset and yet he kept right on at it. Until the manager came over and said "do we have a problem". I said "it's my dad and his odd humor that no one seems to get except him, I'll be waiting outside if anyone needs me" and I hightailed it out of the pharmacy. How uncomfortable and embarassing it was.

 

Yet he persists. He sees himself as this overly intellectually superior of the mortal earthlings around him and seems to get off on making dry humor jokes that almost no one seems to get and actually puts people off and make them completely back off. Rather than thinking "Hmm maybe I should lighten up a bit nobody gets my off color dry humor and it obviously bothers them" he keeps right on at it, just as he's been doing for his entire life.

 

And yes, he's still single. No wonder.

[Normm]

I am in the sense I spend that time doing things which are a heck of a lot more interesting

 

From what I can tell you are spending that time that you aren't dating posting countless threads on this forum about how you can't get a girlfriend. I'm thinking going on dates would be a heck of a lot more interesting than complaining about not meeting someone.

 

But hey 5X5 has already established my goal with dating is wrong so I am prepared to conceded I should be going on each date with the idea of getting laid.

 

That's not at all what was said. You have serious difficulty understanding what people are trying to tell you.

[ZA Dater]

ZA, You seem to be running into a lot of fake people. More than would be statistically probable. Either you've got really bad luck or the problem is with you, not them.

 

Sure we try to put our best foot forward so as to make a good impression on a person we hope to get to know better. If things work out and we end up in a relationship with them, over time we relax a bit and some of our negative attributes will come out- we all have them, nobody's perfect- but you don't want to overwhelm a person you just met with your less than desirable attributes.

 

For example, my GF of 6 years has no problems entering the bathroom while I'm shaving, squatting on the bowl, pissing and even blowing a few farts for good measure. I don't like it, I told her as much, I'll leave the room immediately but she thinks I'm being unreasonable and she won't stop.

 

I put up with it now but if she did it on the first date there probably wouldn't have been a second one.

 

 

 

There you go again. You're special, you're one of a select few that's honest about themselves from the very start, and that's why you are a failure at dating. It's not that you're doing something wrong, it's just that everybody you meet is below your standards.

 

 

 

Such drama. Yes you're paying the price each and every day and your 100s or thousands of posts are testimonial to your dating failures and continued frustrations.

 

It may have nothing whatsover to do with your approach, or your need to be 100% honest about who you are and expect the same in return. It appears that potential dating partners just think you're weird and once they meet you they have no interest in taking things further so no matter what you say or do will matter. Unfortunately you'll never know which it is because you are inflexible and unwilling to change your attitude and approach.

 

 

 

How do you know they hope you will like them? Could very well be that once they are sitting across from you they're thinking "This guy isn't for me when can I get the heck out of here". They've got nothing to say to you because they just want the date to be over. Do you see how you're putting all of the problems on them when it really could be the problem is with you? Given that you are always the common denominator, I know where I'm putting my money.

 

 

 

Doesn't appear that you are getting it at all.

 

 

 

You touch on a good point, if they don't like me then simply say so! Get up and leave, really I would care less if they did this. I once had the best actor I have ever come across who pretended to have a good time, only to later send me a rather pathetic text.....after sitting at lunch for 2 hours.

 

 

Or how about the other one "there is no chemistry, but lets be friends" only for me to get blocked 10 minutes later. Sorry but a lack of honesty and backbone are common with the people I tend to end up meeting.

 

 

At least one was honest citing shyness and lack of confidence as deal killers, I can respect that person more.

 

 

Sure put your best foot forward, I do that too but to spin some BS story or behave in a way that's completely 360 deg from who you are, that's false.

 

 

The bold is probably true. I am weird because of who I am. I suppose I must change that fundamentally too IN CASE someone might like me. I must pretend to like things I don't, do things I don't like, believe things I don't, support causes I don't, sounds like masses of fun to me. Not.

 

 

I call things how they are with tact, if someone doesn't know even the most basic of general knowledge then yes I am not going to make them look silly but I will loose interest. Someone who can give me a go, that's another matter, then I need to bring my A game out because I am going to get it as good as I get.

 

 

When I need to explain what words mean, a part of me just switches off, again someone who uses good language and gives me a challenge, again the A game needs to be there. I am probably not making any sense here but for example I want to go to Bora Bora in the next 5 years, "oh where is that" ok that's fine its obscure, then I talk about the Maui and again where is that. There is only so much of this sort of thing I can take before I just simply switch off and the "contempt face" Gemma keeps referring to probably appears.

 

 

Please don't try extrapolate my experience here to the USA because compare to here, you have a very good thing, the calibre of people on OKcupid is far superior to most I find here. I met a few ladies from the USA via seeking arrangement and these were much better "dates" in terms of being challenged.

 

 

Ultimately what I want is someone who can challenge me. I have only ever found this appealing combination of looks and challenge twice. The irony of is I met both of their bf's and there was no challenge there.

 

 

At least one of them does seem to like being my friend at least.

 

 

Its got to the point where I go on dates I simply just talk about whatever they want to and try keep myself interested.

[Normm]

You touch on a good point, if they don't like me then simply say so! Get up and leave, really I would care less if they did this.

 

The vast majority of people are way too uncomfortable to be that straightforward and create what would be a very awkward and hurtful situation. Just like you, ZA are incapable of changing how you do things, so are these "dishonest people" who sit across from you saying nothing even though they are thinking they'll never see you again.

 

Or how about the other one "there is no chemistry, but lets be friends" only for me to get blocked 10 minutes later. Sorry but a lack of honesty and backbone are common with the people I tend to end up meeting.

 

You've talked about being blocked before, it seems to happen to you a lot. People block other people usually because they're afraid of them. If it happens only once in a while, it just could be that person chooses to block and it has nothing to do with you . When it happens a lot it IS you.

 

People might be more honest in a situation where they feel safe and comfortable. When they're sitting across from a person they think is weird or even possibly dangerous- they're not going to jeopardize their safety by possibly triggering a violent reaction in a person by telling them they're a weirdo and the date is over.

 

At least one was honest citing shyness and lack of confidence as deal killers, I can respect that person more.

 

How do you know they were being honest? You don't. You simply found their answer to be an acceptable reason.

 

Sure put your best foot forward, I do that too but to spin some BS story or behave in a way that's completely 360 deg from who you are, that's false.

 

There's a lot of grey in between those 2 extremes. Try spending some time there.

 

I am weird because of who I am. I suppose I must change that fundamentally too IN CASE someone might like me. I must pretend to like things I don't, do things I don't like, believe things I don't, support causes I don't, sounds like masses of fun to me. Not.

 

 

If you are unwilling to change you will continue to fail. So accept it, and stop complaining and arguing with people who are trying to help you and for god sakes stop wasting your time and everyone elses time by looking for people to meet on the dating sites.

 

Please don't try extrapolate my experience here to the USA because compare to here, you have a very good thing, the calibre of people on OKcupid is far superior to most I find here.

 

This happens all the time. Guys who can't get dates say online dating favors women. Women who can't get dates say there's no good guys on there. Anyone who can't get dates blames it on their geographic location. There's a common denominator and it's the person who can't get the dates. Not everyone is failing in your area ZA.

[normal person]

My 89 year old dad is like that!

 

[...] Rather than thinking "Hmm maybe I should lighten up a bit nobody gets my off color dry humor and it obviously bothers them" he keeps right on at it, just as he's been doing for his entire life.

 

And yes, he's still single. No wonder.

 

My dad was the same way after my mom died. Stubborn and unsympathetic to people who didn't take to things he said and did the way he thought they should. He didn't realize that he might have to curb some of his less favorable habits if he wanted to find love again. Or if he did realize that's what he needed to do, he was happy to take pride in not changing while at the same time, very unhappy with his lack of success with women. He was never able to crack it.

 

ZA, I was once a bit more like you (I still am, to a degree). Idealistic, honest to a fault, never willing to do things I didn't like. I wasn't a very fun person to be around unless I was happy with the setting, people, etc. The more and more I got out there and learned, the more I realized what a hindrance this sort of mindset is. It is very lonely at the top. What kind of person will ever want to be with you if all you ever are is judgmental and unwavering? It's not a great sales pitch. Much like my dad's later years, I see the same thing in you. Maybe everyone else isn't the whole problem. At some point you should take stock and hopefully realize that making some compromises in pursuit of something you value more than your integrity might bring you some joy.

 

Which do you value more? Your flawless integrity with no love? Or love, with a few small/moderate understandable compromises here and there? I have a feeling the overwhelming majority of people will pick the latter, which is the world they all live in. Then there's you, and we all know what flag you fly.

 

For example, I've made a point in my life to do things on my own terms and not run the "rat race" as they say. That includes working from home, dressing like I want, not wearing a suit, etc. I have a pair of old sneakers that my girlfriend isn't too fond of but are so comfortable that I'd wear them for the rest of my life if I could. I wear them out a lot without incident but occasionally if we go somewhere nice I'll put on a suit and some nice shoes because I know she'll appreciate it, even if I hate it. And she does appreciate it, that makes her happy, and that makes me happy, which is the end goal. While I may make some offhand remark like "I feel like such a tool," we just chuckle and accept that it's all a necessary part of the process.

 

Consider stepping back and seeing the forest for the trees. Will you make any compromises to get the things you desire more than what you've got? How much more time are you going to waste?

[ZA Dater]

The vast majority of people are way too uncomfortable to be that straightforward and create what would be a very awkward and hurtful situation. Just like you, ZA are incapable of changing how you do things, so are these "dishonest people" who sit across from you saying nothing even though they are thinking they'll never see you again.

 

 

 

You've talked about being blocked before, it seems to happen to you a lot. People block other people usually because they're afraid of them. If it happens only once in a while, it just could be that person chooses to block and it has nothing to do with you . When it happens a lot it IS you.

 

People might be more honest in a situation where they feel safe and comfortable. When they're sitting across from a person they think is weird or even possibly dangerous- they're not going to jeopardize their safety by possibly triggering a violent reaction in a person by telling them they're a weirdo and the date is over.

 

 

 

How do you know they were being honest? You don't. You simply found their answer to be an acceptable reason.

 

 

 

There's a lot of grey in between those 2 extremes. Try spending some time there.

 

 

 

 

If you are unwilling to change you will continue to fail. So accept it, and stop complaining and arguing with people who are trying to help you and for god sakes stop wasting your time and everyone elses time by looking for people to meet on the dating sites.

 

 

 

This happens all the time. Guys who can't get dates say online dating favors women. Women who can't get dates say there's no good guys on there. Anyone who can't get dates blames it on their geographic location. There's a common denominator and it's the person who can't get the dates. Not everyone is failing in your area ZA.

 

 

 

I was actually blocked only twice and in both instances they were people I actually 50% liked and saw some potential with.

 

 

I am still waiting to be told what I must magically change to, there is no consensus here, one says I need to try get laid on every date, other says I need to totally do everything differently, others say I must beg and grovel and go out with people I don't initially like in the hope I might like them later on. Other say I must give them a chance

 

 

If someone could give me ONE idea with a better than 50% chance of actually getting what I want then I would pursue that idea.

 

 

But of course I will be told it doesn't work like that its some sort of learning curve and I need to start off small with people I don't like and go back with people I don't find attractive to gain experience.

 

 

Or I'll be told about these amazing people called dating coaches and their amazing non value adding service. You say I am unique, not at all, if anything I am uniquely unlucky because frankly I don't know anyone like me.

 

 

That being said I suppose I can hope for better experiences or I can simply enjoy the few good ones I get more even though for most here they wouldn't amount to much more the scraps at a buffet.

[Normm]

I was actually blocked only twice

 

My bad, sorry must have been confusing you with another poster who said they get blocked quite often after first dates. It was before the "site outage" and my memory failed me.

 

I am still waiting to be told what I must magically change to

 

No one says you must change as a person, most everyone who has offered good advice has given you suggestions as to how to change your approach and your behavior.

 

there is no consensus here

 

Ask 10 different people the same question you'll get up to 10 different answers. It's rare that someone makes a post and there's unanimous agreement among the responders.

 

If someone could give me ONE idea with a better than 50% chance of actually getting what I want then I would pursue that idea.

 

You've been given lots of suggestions over countless threads. You simply chose to ignore them or say "It's not me".

 

Or I'll be told about these amazing people called dating coaches and their amazing non value adding service.

 

How do you know they add no value if you haven't tried? This is your attitude with anything that suggests doing something differently. "It won't work" even though you have nothing to support that line of reasoning.

 

That being said I suppose I can hope for better experiences or I can simply enjoy the few good ones I get more even though for most here they wouldn't amount to much more the scraps at a buffet.

 

The world can be a cruel, nonforgiving place. Adapt or die.

[Mentor99]

I am still waiting to be told what I must magically change to, there is no consensus here, one says I need to try get laid on every date, other says I need to totally do everything differently, others say I must beg and grovel and go out with people I don't initially like in the hope I might like them later on. Other say I must give them a chance.

 

There isn't a magical pill or procedure that will work here. Like anything worth doing it's going to take work and it will take time. Once you come to terms with the fact that there's no quick fix the better.

 

If someone could give me ONE idea with a better than 50% chance of actually getting what I want then I would pursue that idea.

 

ONE idea isn't going to work. It's going to take time, and work to get there. I see so many unhealthy thought patterns in your post that I think seeing a good therapist to undo some of those is a good place to start. Because, guess what, even if you do find someone you like who likes you back, having a healthy relationship with your unhealthy thoughts will be pretty much impossible.

 

From a practical perspective though, after you've done the work in therapy, here are the steps that worked for me and if you ACTUALLY put in the effort to do them WITHOUT making excuses or stopping after it not working right away and continuing with the process, I suspect it would work for you.

 

1. Go to therapy to deal with your unhealthy thoughts. For me, it was social anxiety. Yours are likely different.

 

2. Figure out what you're looking for in a relationship. There's a lot of possibilities, from marriage and children to a one night stand and everything in between. The more concrete you are here, the better. From the sounds of if you want a long term relationship but are undecided about kids. Not interested in casual sex. If that's true, let that be your guide.

 

3. Put yourself out there. Join multiple OLD sites. Let your friends know the type of relationship you're looking for. Join groups or activities that appeal to you etc.

 

4. Date. A lot. One date a month isn't going to do it. Aim for at least 5 dates a month. You often say you don't have time. MAKE the time. You don't have a social life, so I'm guessing you spend a lot of time working. Balance is important and it's okay to prioritize a social life.

 

5. Don't get too caught up in each individual date, either positive or negative. Most won't be a match. That's the point of dating. You need to conserve that emotional energy for when you do get a match.

 

6. Be patient; give it time.

 

 

But of course I will be told it doesn't work like that its some sort of learning curve and I need to start off small with people I don't like and go back with people I don't find attractive to gain experience.

 

There certainly is a learning curve (and learning from your mistakes seems to be something you find challenging), but DO NOT date people you find unattractive. Your range should be from neutral to attractive based on physical attraction. And then the mental aspect will come to the fore when you date.

 

Or I'll be told about these amazing people called dating coaches and their amazing non value adding service.

 

Like therapy, dating coaches can only work if you actually do the things they suggest. You are the one who actually has to do the work though. You seem to be quite resistant. It's like people who want a magic pill to lose weight. Doesn't work. Healthy diet and regular exercise works, but you actually have to do it. All the time. And some people (a lot of people) just won't do it and they wait for their magic cure.

 

 

You say I am unique, not at all, if anything I am uniquely unlucky because frankly I don't know anyone like me.

 

Your issues with dating seem unique, but you having described yourself in any manner that I think is far outside the norm.

 

That being said I suppose I can hope for better experiences or I can simply enjoy the few good ones I get more even though for most here they wouldn't amount to much more the scraps at a buffet.

 

Or instead of just hoping for better experiences, you can actually do the work to have a fuller, richer life.

[GemmaUK]

1: Not really, thankfully I have better things which bring me better returns than going on dates with people I don't like from the off.

Why do you keep doing it then?

 

That's a step beyond assumption. They haven't tried to help me in any constructive way and you know this because you even agreed with my comments on it. I am quite good at sticking up for myself thanks, I certainly don't need their help to do that, nor do I need to be embarrassed with them trying to force strangers to go out with me. Tell me, would you enjoy that?

Why don't you tell them what constructive way you want them to help you?

No, it's not nice, I agree but if when they have talked to you and suggested things do you roll with them always and give x, y or z a go? If you do the same with your friends as you do here and give a myriad of reasons why 'not' to then they've probably run of of suggestions. Hence the last resort is teasing and banter.

They're your friends, banter is what friends do

 

Glad you find it fun, I call it over embellishment at the least and blatant deception at the worst.

Wow! Flirting is over embellishment and blatant deception?

Is that your view of banter also?

 

Its a bit rich telling me to diversify considering the variety of people I have gone on dates and humoured in the hope there is something about them I might like OH I get it I must keep seeing them in the hope something magically impresses me, that's like buying a sweater you don't like and hoping if you wear it enough you might end up liking it. But hey, what I do I know.

Where on earth did you get it from that I said or implied that?

I've been suggesting the opposite for over two years, I don't think you should go on any date with someone you don't like when you don't like them before even meeting. It's pointless.

The only way there 'may' be a point to it is if you choose to grab some sexual experience with someone willing but you don't want to get sexual experience before you meet someone you fall for.

This is fine except that doing it that way around places the sexual responsibility onto that woman.

Me. when I was younger. I wanted to make sure that when I met a great guy that I would know how to navigate his body, what to do with it, what to do with mine also.

I would love for you to take up an offer to try these things out and with someone you are not emotionally invested in. I think it would take a lot of fear off and pressure off you but also pressure off that woman - whomever it is you meet one day.

 

Relating to you want a date to tell you she isn't interested whilst on a date - I think you'll find that this is rare unless it's very clear all is good on a friendship level.

A date doesn't know you, she has no idea what your reaction might be like if she said she wasn't interested right there and then.I learned pretty quickly it's just not safe to do that with someone you don't know, not even in a public place.

Some people will just block a person and maybe those women who blocked you did so because they always do but most people don't, not unless the other party is showing signs of being insistent or pushy or the person is fearful of how the other might react.

 

There is no one thing to improve odds by 50% but things such as learning to read people will most definitely help.

Even the best relationships require compromises and work for them to build, continually grow and last so learning to read people and how to engage is a huge step in making those relationships easier to navigate.

 

Regarding different suggestions that folk give you, these are based upon our interpretations of what you post.

It is true that sometimes the picture you give at for instance a first post is not the entire picture as I have seen in the past things which you post later which were said or done which completely change the scenario.

If , perhaps you posted messages and the words in them between you and a prospective date or words said and each others mannerisms during a date we may be able to offer something more concise but as it is we can only offer suggestions based upon what you tell us and what we already know from your posting history.

Even broken down you will still have various interpretations of that and other thoughts from different people because we all think differently and have had different experiences.

[Normm]

ZA you have posted 26 threads in the past year, that's one every 2 weeks and they're all pretty much about the same thing. You have failed at dating, you're increasingly frustrated, you don't like most people you meet and the few who you meet and you do like aren't interested and you never hear from them again.

 

In just about every thread you post, you lay out a scenario and you ask for advice and suggestions as to what to do differently, you get tons of responses that are filled with ideas about what you can do differently. You negate each and every one saying in effect "It's not me" or "I can't or won't do that", or "That won't work" usually followed by "I never get any good advice".

 

 

Are you aware of the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing the same way over and over again and yet expecting different results.

[ZA Dater]

ZA you have posted 26 threads in the past year, that's one every 2 weeks and they're all pretty much about the same thing. You have failed at dating, you're increasingly frustrated, you don't like most people you meet and the few who you meet and you do like aren't interested and you never hear from them again.

 

In just about every thread you post, you lay out a scenario and you ask for advice and suggestions as to what to do differently, you get tons of responses that are filled with ideas about what you can do differently. You negate each and every one saying in effect "It's not me" or "I can't or won't do that", or "That won't work" usually followed by "I never get any good advice".

 

 

Are you aware of the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing the same way over and over again and yet expecting different results.

 

 

 

Yes so I am going to do something different.

[ZA Dater]

There isn't a magical pill or procedure that will work here. Like anything worth doing it's going to take work and it will take time. Once you come to terms with the fact that there's no quick fix the better.

 

 

 

ONE idea isn't going to work. It's going to take time, and work to get there. I see so many unhealthy thought patterns in your post that I think seeing a good therapist to undo some of those is a good place to start. Because, guess what, even if you do find someone you like who likes you back, having a healthy relationship with your unhealthy thoughts will be pretty much impossible.

 

From a practical perspective though, after you've done the work in therapy, here are the steps that worked for me and if you ACTUALLY put in the effort to do them WITHOUT making excuses or stopping after it not working right away and continuing with the process, I suspect it would work for you.

 

1. Go to therapy to deal with your unhealthy thoughts. For me, it was social anxiety. Yours are likely different.

 

2. Figure out what you're looking for in a relationship. There's a lot of possibilities, from marriage and children to a one night stand and everything in between. The more concrete you are here, the better. From the sounds of if you want a long term relationship but are undecided about kids. Not interested in casual sex. If that's true, let that be your guide.

 

3. Put yourself out there. Join multiple OLD sites. Let your friends know the type of relationship you're looking for. Join groups or activities that appeal to you etc.

 

4. Date. A lot. One date a month isn't going to do it. Aim for at least 5 dates a month. You often say you don't have time. MAKE the time. You don't have a social life, so I'm guessing you spend a lot of time working. Balance is important and it's okay to prioritize a social life.

 

5. Don't get too caught up in each individual date, either positive or negative. Most won't be a match. That's the point of dating. You need to conserve that emotional energy for when you do get a match.

 

6. Be patient; give it time.

 

 

 

 

There certainly is a learning curve (and learning from your mistakes seems to be something you find challenging), but DO NOT date people you find unattractive. Your range should be from neutral to attractive based on physical attraction. And then the mental aspect will come to the fore when you date.

 

 

 

Like therapy, dating coaches can only work if you actually do the things they suggest. You are the one who actually has to do the work though. You seem to be quite resistant. It's like people who want a magic pill to lose weight. Doesn't work. Healthy diet and regular exercise works, but you actually have to do it. All the time. And some people (a lot of people) just won't do it and they wait for their magic cure.

 

 

 

 

Your issues with dating seem unique, but you having described yourself in any manner that I think is far outside the norm.

 

 

 

Or instead of just hoping for better experiences, you can actually do the work to have a fuller, richer life.

 

 

 

Don't really think I have time to spend time learning this, my bad for not somehow learning this like everyone else apparently did. Actually I'd rather just own what I am than try to be something I am not.

 

 

As for therapists, they don't hold much interest for me, been to two because apparently I wasn't much good at making friends and I am still not good at it. Oh and because I had nothing in common with my peers. All that happened was hours of round and round and very little of practical use, like it was my fault I preferred politics to discos, preferred cars to rugby. If there was one thing I did learn was to simply to be me.

 

 

I once met a dating coach at a lunch event and seeing as he was so superb at this, asked him to try and chat up someone at another table, needless to say this was a joke of note and he got the cold shoulder and yes all the embellishment I talk about here was in full evidence so I would take their advice with a massive pinch of salt, along with the validity of a snake oil salesman.

 

 

The way I work, I graft away at things for which I see some inherent benefit and where I can see incremental improvements, dating isn't like that, irrespective of what face I put on, yes I can do the fakery thing to and have the result isn't any different because I cant meet the right people to begin. As much as the issue is mine the people I am meeting are not suitable from the outset so I am trying to work with a scenario that I know wont work for the beginning.

 

 

OLD was the worst thing I ever did, spent over 10 years on OLD sites and all it does is just give huge doses of rejection and while not pleasant I guess the benefit is I can hardly be bothered about rejection now.

 

 

I have my activities, they just aren't ones where I meet single people.

 

 

Number 5 makes no sense to me, I have spent time doing that, there are only so many people on OLD sites here and when I filter them, 95% are not suitable.

 

 

As for a social life, honestly why? Nice as it would be to be challenged, that hardly happens because I don't find those sorts of people often. I can sit and work and get the reward of a job well done or I can go sit at a dinner with someone I don't find attractive, sorry but the former is more attractive to me.

 

 

I am glad you advice worked for you and thank you for sharing it with me, I just wish I had read it 10 years earlier.

[ZA Dater]

Why do you keep doing it then?

 

 

Why don't you tell them what constructive way you want them to help you?

No, it's not nice, I agree but if when they have talked to you and suggested things do you roll with them always and give x, y or z a go? If you do the same with your friends as you do here and give a myriad of reasons why 'not' to then they've probably run of of suggestions. Hence the last resort is teasing and banter.

They're your friends, banter is what friends do

 

 

Wow! Flirting is over embellishment and blatant deception?

Is that your view of banter also?

 

 

Where on earth did you get it from that I said or implied that?

I've been suggesting the opposite for over two years, I don't think you should go on any date with someone you don't like when you don't like them before even meeting. It's pointless.

The only way there 'may' be a point to it is if you choose to grab some sexual experience with someone willing but you don't want to get sexual experience before you meet someone you fall for.

This is fine except that doing it that way around places the sexual responsibility onto that woman.

Me. when I was younger. I wanted to make sure that when I met a great guy that I would know how to navigate his body, what to do with it, what to do with mine also.

I would love for you to take up an offer to try these things out and with someone you are not emotionally invested in. I think it would take a lot of fear off and pressure off you but also pressure off that woman - whomever it is you meet one day.

 

Relating to you want a date to tell you she isn't interested whilst on a date - I think you'll find that this is rare unless it's very clear all is good on a friendship level.

A date doesn't know you, she has no idea what your reaction might be like if she said she wasn't interested right there and then.I learned pretty quickly it's just not safe to do that with someone you don't know, not even in a public place.

Some people will just block a person and maybe those women who blocked you did so because they always do but most people don't, not unless the other party is showing signs of being insistent or pushy or the person is fearful of how the other might react.

 

There is no one thing to improve odds by 50% but things such as learning to read people will most definitely help.

Even the best relationships require compromises and work for them to build, continually grow and last so learning to read people and how to engage is a huge step in making those relationships easier to navigate.

 

Regarding different suggestions that folk give you, these are based upon our interpretations of what you post.

It is true that sometimes the picture you give at for instance a first post is not the entire picture as I have seen in the past things which you post later which were said or done which completely change the scenario.

If , perhaps you posted messages and the words in them between you and a prospective date or words said and each others mannerisms during a date we may be able to offer something more concise but as it is we can only offer suggestions based upon what you tell us and what we already know from your posting history.

Even broken down you will still have various interpretations of that and other thoughts from different people because we all think differently and have had different experiences.

 

 

 

I do it because people keep telling me its some sort of numbers game. Thankfully the few friends I do have, have just accepted me as I am and thankfully don't bother with that same sort of advice, in fact they leave me be.

 

 

There is a difference between deceit and banter, I can do the latter and refuse to do the former, banter is light hearted poking fun and generally clowning around. Just today I sat and saw flirting and charm, I'll never honestly figure out how to do that, my mind seemingly doesn't think that way.

 

 

The above has clarified the absolute vital importance of sex and experience. Thanks for that. This is the precise reason I am mostly happy to be friend zoned with the people I like so I don't need to go to this awkward place, besides I wouldn't be able to get there with them anyway.

 

 

I need to like someone to want to have sex with them and I just don't like many people, I have maybe liked 5 people enough in the last 10 years to want to have sex with them.

 

 

It realty boils down to the last few words. Much as some might say I don't begrudge people success, I don't dislike the deceit I see, I don't like the objectification of women but I accept it wont ever go away.

 

 

I know how good I can be, I know it can work with some people well enough for me and them to have in isolation a nice time. One of the things I am most thankful for: having some good experiences and meeting the odd person who does tick my various boxes.

[Fair]

We are back to social skills now. A misfit is essentially a person who lacks the social skills to connect. The word comes from not being able to fit in.

 

Some of the language I've seen here (eg sheep) is exactly the type of thing which would cause a person to become alienated. Why would I try to connect with someone who calls me and my peers sheep? Why would I try and connect with a person who uses language which puts themselves on a higher plane? Why would I try and connect with someone who's very cynical about other humans? If a person wants to connect, they need to be warm, friendly and most of all accessible. Social skills 101 requires an understanding of how our words and actions make others feel.

 

I understand very well where you're coming from but I highly doubt anyone is going to come up to your face and call you a sheep. There's just so many interesting things I've found out regarding people who have a hard time fitting in. They're not bad people at all... just the opposite, actually. Again there's so much research available, and difficult to describe in these LS comment boxes.

[GemmaUK]

I do it because people keep telling me its some sort of numbers game.

Well, it is to some degree but OLD is just a tool for making contact so that within a few messages you can then screen a person to get a feel for whether you may or may not be interested in them and whether it's worth going on a date with them.

You don't appear to do much screening (maybe you do but it doesn't seem that way) before going on a date and in fact it seems you don't like the women you go on dates with prior to that date much if at all from your posts.

You drastically reduce the possibility of being attracted if you only date people you're not interested in so would need to hugely increase the number of dates you go on if you don't do any prior screening.

 

I don't like the objectification of women but I accept it wont ever go away.

In a loving, respectful and sexual relationship I want my man to objectify me as well as love me for all of the other reasons he loves me. It's just a different facet of his nature. and equally mine too. Objectification is not 'all' wrong or bad.

In private and between us, I want him to think 'whoa, you're hot and I want you'. I'm the same with the man I love too, I could spend hours gazing at my man in his chopped up old t-shirt doing DIY! Well, sometimes hours, sometimes I might have to cause a distraction and the DIY got abandoned! Lol!

[ZA Dater]

Well, it is to some degree but OLD is just a tool for making contact so that within a few messages you can then screen a person to get a feel for whether you may or may not be interested in them and whether it's worth going on a date with them.

You don't appear to do much screening (maybe you do but it doesn't seem that way) before going on a date and in fact it seems you don't like the women you go on dates with prior to that date much if at all from your posts.

You drastically reduce the possibility of being attracted if you only date people you're not interested in so would need to hugely increase the number of dates you go on if you don't do any prior screening.

 

 

In a loving, respectful and sexual relationship I want my man to objectify me as well as love me for all of the other reasons he loves me. It's just a different facet of his nature. and equally mine too. Objectification is not 'all' wrong or bad.

In private and between us, I want him to think 'whoa, you're hot and I want you'. I'm the same with the man I love too, I could spend hours gazing at my man in his chopped up old t-shirt doing DIY! Well, sometimes hours, sometimes I might have to cause a distraction and the DIY got abandoned! Lol!

 

As I keep saying I don't find people in the sites to be that attractive and when I do they aren't interested thus I vasit have to go out with unsuitable people or as like now I wouldn't go out at all.

 

Found someone nice yesterday, the conversation just died, admittedly I was pushing my luck but still. I'll type out the whole transcript for you.

[GemmaUK]

i'll type out the whole transcript for you.

 

Sure, give me a heads up once you've typed it up.