Why can't people be liked for who they are

[GemmaUK]

You have a strict set of expectations over what is a first meet, not even a date - when meeting people online it is a first meet IMO, not a date.

To you perhaps it's a date but you nee to respect that to the person you're meeting that they could see it as a date (same as you) or a first meet (same as me).

 

Whenever I go on a first meet, or get to a first date, I for one am not trying to impress at all. The nature of relationships as they grow and continue is not to impress, it's just to be the best version of you and as time goes on all else about you comes out, foibles, quirks etc. The good and the not so good.

 

I meet a guy with an air of confidence, self depreciation, fun, openess.

If I am going on a date then it's my responsibility to make sure I am confident enough to act upon a feeling that I like him, touch his arm, go in for a kiss etc.

I expect the same of a man I meet too. It shouldn't be all on me.

 

You say over and over that you don't relate with people.

You did take up the suggestion of learning about body language & expressions but it's not something you can pick up one book for and expect instant results.

My thought was get studying, give yourself a couple of years of study & practice with anyone and everyone (not even just women or women you meet with any intention of dating).

You picked up a book earlier this year which you've read maybe half of(?) and yet you expect instant results.

You've then said that you don't see it as being any use in dating and only see anything you have so far learned as being useful in business. Maybe this is because in business there are deadlines - actual deadlines. So changes in how you behave in work yield faster results simply because there's an endpoint.

Dating and relationships are just not like that though, they either flow and grow or they don't but even the best relationships take time and patience to become the best relationships.

 

Learning and studying body language plus practicing it would, in time increase your overall confidence.

These things all need time.

They're not instant.

This is why life is a learning 'curve'. It takes a curve to get to the point you want to be at, it's not a straight line. And especially not with relationships.

[Realitysux]

If you stay true to yourself then the right people, who bring out the best in you and recognize your strengths, will be found in the least expected places. If you continue to surround yourself by people who make you feel rejected then you will miss out on the right people for you. When I first moved here, I felt horrible and couldn't make connections. As soon as I stopped trying and focused on my own personal life, connections just happened. Now I am heading out with some great people for the day. I also find that I am running into people and I know more people then I thought I did. I went to get a key cut and I knew him so he didn't charge me. Little things like that happen, when I realize, there are people who recognize that I am a good person. I've had some rought times since I moved here but it's okay.

[JuneL]

Each individual woman is unique and interesting in her own way (although she may not be attractive to you or compatible with you). I think that you should probably have this mindset that when you first meet a woman, your “challenge” is to find out something interesting about her and forget about the dating part. Perhaps this should be your first step before even jumping into dating. I can’t count the number of times you have stated that you like challenge, so here is your challenge: find something positive in each interaction with women.

[ZA Dater]

You have a strict set of expectations over what is a first meet, not even a date - when meeting people online it is a first meet IMO, not a date.

To you perhaps it's a date but you nee to respect that to the person you're meeting that they could see it as a date (same as you) or a first meet (same as me).

 

Whenever I go on a first meet, or get to a first date, I for one am not trying to impress at all. The nature of relationships as they grow and continue is not to impress, it's just to be the best version of you and as time goes on all else about you comes out, foibles, quirks etc. The good and the not so good.

 

I meet a guy with an air of confidence, self depreciation, fun, openess.

If I am going on a date then it's my responsibility to make sure I am confident enough to act upon a feeling that I like him, touch his arm, go in for a kiss etc.

I expect the same of a man I meet too. It shouldn't be all on me.

 

You say over and over that you don't relate with people.

You did take up the suggestion of learning about body language & expressions but it's not something you can pick up one book for and expect instant results.

My thought was get studying, give yourself a couple of years of study & practice with anyone and everyone (not even just women or women you meet with any intention of dating).

You picked up a book earlier this year which you've read maybe half of(?) and yet you expect instant results.

You've then said that you don't see it as being any use in dating and only see anything you have so far learned as being useful in business. Maybe this is because in business there are deadlines - actual deadlines. So changes in how you behave in work yield faster results simply because there's an endpoint.

Dating and relationships are just not like that though, they either flow and grow or they don't but even the best relationships take time and patience to become the best relationships.

 

Learning and studying body language plus practicing it would, in time increase your overall confidence.

These things all need time.

They're not instant.

This is why life is a learning 'curve'. It takes a curve to get to the point you want to be at, it's not a straight line. And especially not with relationships.

 

A couple of years...sure my pool of choices will be even worse than they are now. Fine enough if I was 25 but I am not so the idea of only having the choice of single mothers or divorced single mothers isn't exactly fantastic motivation to spend "a couple of years" learning.

 

I do relate to some people but they are few and far between so I know there are some albeit not many.

 

I tend to agree about meets but let's be honest been all want to be wowed just a bit.

 

Perhaps I am indifferent at the moment, had some conversations on Tinder but they didn't go anywhere. A few unsuitable matches, nobody really available in the small social circle I have.

 

Just the usual unobtainable around.

[Blanco]

A couple of years...sure my pool of choices will be even worse than they are now. Fine enough if I was 25 but I am not so the idea of only having the choice of single mothers or divorced single mothers isn't exactly fantastic motivation to spend "a couple of years" learning.

 

Time is going to pass regardless, so what harm is there in continuing your education on this matter?

 

I think Gemma was just trying to say that you can't expect overnight results from something that is so foreign to you.

[ZA Dater]

Time is going to pass regardless, so what harm is there in continuing your education on this matter?

 

I think Gemma was just trying to say that you can't expect overnight results from something that is so foreign to you.

 

I don't expect overnight results but frankly I don't feel like waiting years for them either. Way I see it I am already so far out of step I may as well simply own that rather than feeling bad about it. Honestly I am not exactly feeling very motivated either.

[GemmaUK]

The point is you need to put things into perspective - and actually body language and the learning of it was mentioned to you way back - way before I started posting on your threads so it was well over 2 years ago but you had reasons why not to learn it or pick up any book on it all that time.

Reading half a dating centric body language book and then saying it's useful for business, not dating makes me think you're not terribly keen on practicing what you might learn - and it was clear on your last date which you posted about you didn't use anything you might have learned from it.

You choose to go on dates with people you have no interest in and don't even use those for practice.

 

But then also, you only like to drink water, you don't like the coffee date, dinner, activity - so what have you come up with as alternatives? What effort have you put into that?

 

It was only a few pages back that you said an expressionless face was your favourite to use, you say you 'try' to smile.

You need to be wowed by a woman and expect her to talk in depth about subjects you like on a first meet.

A few pages back you realised that not being sexually experienced would put all of the pressure on whomever you do meet to take the lead in that (as well).

What do you plan to bring to the table on a first meet or first date or a relationship? Because, it appears that any effort put in is on her - that seems to be your expectation.

[Chilli]

Only water , for real ?

Wow l'd be ropable starving 24 7 only drinking water that stuff makes me hungry as hell.

Anyway , if it seems to be the way there, some coffee meet thing or whatever you guys call it, what do they all read the same damn book or something but anyway ok , so you have your water and she can have her coffee, what's the drama.

 

l know , try meeting vegan girls, she might live something like what you like .

[ZA Dater]

The point is you need to put things into perspective - and actually body language and the learning of it was mentioned to you way back - way before I started posting on your threads so it was well over 2 years ago but you had reasons why not to learn it or pick up any book on it all that time.

Reading half a dating centric body language book and then saying it's useful for business, not dating makes me think you're not terribly keen on practicing what you might learn - and it was clear on your last date which you posted about you didn't use anything you might have learned from it.

You choose to go on dates with people you have no interest in and don't even use those for practice.

 

But then also, you only like to drink water, you don't like the coffee date, dinner, activity - so what have you come up with as alternatives? What effort have you put into that?

 

It was only a few pages back that you said an expressionless face was your favourite to use, you say you 'try' to smile.

You need to be wowed by a woman and expect her to talk in depth about subjects you like on a first meet.

A few pages back you realised that not being sexually experienced would put all of the pressure on whomever you do meet to take the lead in that (as well).

What do you plan to bring to the table on a first meet or first date or a relationship? Because, it appears that any effort put in is on her - that seems to be your expectation.

 

 

 

I put in effort to be friendly and I try to be humorous. I also put in effort in the sense I ask about them, what work they do, what they like to do in their spare time, what opinions they have. Seldom is that effort reciprocated.

 

 

I have actually come to the conclusion everything in a relationship is about sex. All of it. There is nothing else to it at all. One of the posts a few pages back bothered me and made me re look at dates I have been on and what the objectives of these people might have been and my conclusion is physical trumps al else. I simply cannot get away from that not matter how I try spin things it always comes back to that.

 

 

You are right I don't find body language too useful on dates with people I am not interested in, I do find it useful in business and I do find it useful with a few friends I have and yes I do practice it there a bit.

 

 

I have no issue with the coffee date, I'll order hot chocolate to appear more normal but I wont order wine at dinner for the same purpose.

 

 

I am putting in the effort, even with those I don't really like but more and more I am just seeing the same pattern around me, I have friends who date a lot, different people and the more I talk to them the more convinced that most people all follow the same pattern, its always about the physical rather than the mental.

 

 

Part of me has always wondered if they isn't the real issue, I am not going out to sleep with them but I want to take an interest in them hoping that interest would be reciprocated. Its also probably why friend zone isn't a big deal to me, its a heck of a lot better than going on date after date.

[Chilli]

well , that wouldn't surprise me seems that's all anyone seems to talk about on ls whether its date or relationship, marriage or the dog next door.

Get away from the shallowness there and meet a different nationality , you'll be blown away.

[BaileyB]

I have actually come to the conclusion everything in a relationship is about sex. All of it. There is nothing else to it at all.

 

I am putting in the effort, even with those I don't really like but more and more I am just seeing the same pattern around me, I have friends who date a lot, different people and the more I talk to them the more convinced that most people all follow the same pattern, its always about the physical rather than the mental.

 

So, this is your latest conclusion... You want to come back around to debate your theory that mental/emotional connection doesn't matter, it's all about appearance/physical attraction/sex.

 

I'm with Gemma. I think she hit the nail right on the head when she asked you what you would bring to a relationship. It does seem like any woman you date will have to do a lot of work... Not the least of which, she will have to enjoy a good debate because that seems to be your primary purpose here.

[ZA Dater]

So, this is your latest conclusion... You want to come back around to debate your theory that mental/emotional connection doesn't matter, it's all about appearance/physical attraction/sex.

 

I'm with Gemma. I think she hit the nail right on the head when she asked you what you would bring to a relationship. It does seem like any woman you date will have to do a lot of work... Not the least of which, she will have to enjoy a good debate because that seems to be your primary purpose here.

 

What do people bring to relationships?

[BaileyB]

What do people bring to relationships?

 

Are you asking a serious question?

[ZA Dater]

Are you asking a serious question?

 

I am yes. I'd love to know examples of what people apparently bring to relationships. What apparently makes some worth so much more than others.

[Chilli]

You make something so natural and hopefully loving sound like a business deal or something, bring to the table, say again ?

Have you actually had relationships,?

 

Anyway thing is you could meet 100 women but it'd take a miracle finding one that lives and thinks the way you do shooting blind. You need to hone into areas, groups , clubs or something, like you.

You sound a lot like one of my brothers. He's 40s but eventually he met a Chinese girl been with her years, she;s a vet and some religion or other where they don't do , anything , not even hot chocolate , but eh they're two peas in a pod. He runs a large business too but he's almost hell l dunno, a monk or something but , they fit like a glove. Anddddd , she is absolutely stunning, bonus, martial arts expert too, no need to elaborate on those ahh, treats shall we say .

Edited July 3, 2018 by Chilli

[Chilli]

Your fishing in the wrong river.

[ZA Dater]

You make something so natural and hopefully loving sound like a business deal or something, bring to the table, say again ?

Have you actually had relationships,?

 

Anyway thing is you could meet 100 women but it'd take a miracle finding one that lives and thinks the way you do shooting blind. You need to hone into areas, groups , clubs or something, like you.

You sound a lot like one of my brothers. He's 40s but eventually he met a Chinese girl been with her years, she;s a vet and some religion or other where they don't do , anything , not even hot chocolate , but eh they're two peas in a pod. He runs a large business too but he's almost hell l dunno, a monk or something but , they fit like a glove. Anddddd , she is absolutely stunning, bonus, martial arts expert too, no need to elaborate on those ahh, treats shall we say .

 

 

 

The question was asked so I am interested to know what the answer is. See if I can understand what ladies feel guys need to "bring to the table" then I can understand what I don't bring to the table apparently....

[ZA Dater]

I the problem is when you actually look what people bring to the table you then need to admit that for most its purely superficial things. Never have I heard anyone I know "well she has a great personality" its always looks over all else.

 

 

Based on "normal person" it would be easy to believe that what ladies actually want is a protector and a provider of some sort but when you look at it that both of those things can be reduced to superficial economic qualities.

 

 

I look at what people put up with in others and frequently ask myself why they put up with it. Nobody is perfect but some people up with others who simply don't put in any effort and then they almost apologize for that persons lack of effort.

[Haydn]

I read your posts with growing amusement.

 

You are looking for something that does not exist mate.

 

You think all is superficial in most others.

 

Maybe you are the superficial one and they are all massively interesting.

 

You won`t get anywhere like this, unless you date yourself.

 

Just have a laugh and enjoy the moment when you date, it might lead somewhere.

 

Like realising others are more interesting than you think.

 

And maybe more interesting than you? That might make you want to hang about for a bit.....

 

`Hook, line, sinker and copy of angling times`

[JuneL]

^^^ That’s probably just OP’s defense mechanism. It’s painfully difficult to see the truth and the amount of hard work ahead of him. Despite his abuse of the word “challenge”, I think he’s painfully afraid of a real challenge deep down.

[JuneL]

OP has also been deliberately vague about his financial situation on here, and no wonder the girls he met would be puzzled when he’s bragging about the “6” companies he’s running, the supercars he’s driving, and the mergers and acquisitions he’s engaging in. Okay, as of now, he might have spinned off some of his companies and/or acquired others, so I’m not sure if “6” is still the right number :laugh:

 

Why did we ask him about his financial situations? Because he’s the one who kept bragging about his companies and his supercars and complaining the girls were giving him a puzzled look. I mean, if you showed up at your coffee first meet in a Lamborghini, I just don’t see why those girls wouldn’t believe you.

[ZA Dater]

I read your posts with growing amusement.

 

You are looking for something that does not exist mate.

 

You think all is superficial in most others.

 

Maybe you are the superficial one and they are all massively interesting.

 

You won`t get anywhere like this, unless you date yourself.

 

Just have a laugh and enjoy the moment when you date, it might lead somewhere.

 

Like realising others are more interesting than you think.

 

And maybe more interesting than you? That might make you want to hang about for a bit.....

 

`Hook, line, sinker and copy of angling times`

 

 

 

I have met enough people I have liked to know they are in fact out there. Even fleetingly meeting those people gave me perspective and I took away positive from those meetings.

 

 

I don't find people who pretend to be what they aren't attractive at all and strangely enough all of those people I did like, none of them followed the crowd. All had strong beliefs and were confident enough to like what they like irrespective whether anyone else liked the same thing. All had strong confident personalities.

 

 

I might have had no success at dating but at least I tried to date people I genuinely liked rather than simply settled for whoever wanted me. I'd rather chase what I want and not get it than chase what I don't want and get it.

[ZA Dater]

OP has also been deliberately vague about his financial situation on here, and no wonder the girls he met would be puzzled when he’s bragging about the “6” companies he’s running, the supercars he’s driving, and the mergers and acquisitions he’s engaging in. Okay, as of now, he might have spinned off some of his companies and/or acquired others, so I’m not sure if “6” is still the right number :laugh:

 

Why did we ask him about his financial situations? Because he’s the one who kept bragging about his companies and his supercars and complaining the girls were giving him a puzzled look. I mean, if you showed up at your coffee first meet in a Lamborghini, I just don’t see why those girls wouldn’t believe you.

 

 

 

I think you confuse the issues. The puzzled look isn't about work because I don't talk about, I don't sit there and brag because I find it boring. If anything I don't sell myself at all. The puzzled look is when I start to ask for opinions on things, for example where the person would like to go on vacation, perhaps about some world event.

 

 

The problem with the people I generally meet is there isn't enough meat to talk about, I ask them about work they don't expand, I ask them about interests they don't expand. It becomes painful trying to get any conversation to flow, the best dates are where the conversation flows but I suppose I will get blamed for this too.

 

 

I have never ever seen the need to sell myself, you either like me as a person or you don't. I like people for people not for what they have, I admire someone who goes all out to better themselves, someone who is well read, someone with the ability to talk about a diverse range of subjects.

 

 

But you know what, I think as someone pointed out my objectives aren't really aligned with dating objectives, I'd like a friend I can date, seems like everyone else wants the reverse, a date they can be a friend with. I'd actually like someone I can kiss awkwardly and not be judged for it.

[BaileyB]

I am yes. I'd love to know examples of what people apparently bring to relationships. What apparently makes some worth so much more than others.

 

My partner is my best friend. He brings companionship to my life. I find him interesting to talk with, he makes me laugh, and with him I feel like I’m not alone. He fixes my computer and helps me around the home. He cooks for me! We enjoy doing many of the same things so I have a biking partner, and extra board game player, and another driver for road trips - among other things. I find him very attractive - we enjoy each other’s company and I love falling sleep in his arms. My life is wonderful, but in many ways he has made my life better... the days are more fun when I spend them with him.

 

It’s hard to appreciate how a relationship can change your life if you have never had a relationship. But, I think your question is also - how do I know what to look for in a partner. Nobody can answer that question for you. But, back to your most recent post... if you think it’s only physical, you could not be more wrong. It’s about how you feel, and how your partner feels when you are together. One of the reasons why you struggle with this is because you try to reason everything... but, it’s a feeling that you get with another person that makes it so special.

[ZA Dater]

^^^ That’s probably just OP’s defense mechanism. It’s painfully difficult to see the truth and the amount of hard work ahead of him. Despite his abuse of the word “challenge”, I think he’s painfully afraid of a real challenge deep down.

 

 

If I am going to work hard there needs to be an objective and a realistic one which is reasonably probable.

 

 

Which truth would this be?