Why can't people be liked for who they are

[ZA Dater]

My partner is my best friend. He brings companionship to my life. I find him interesting to talk with, he makes me laugh, and with him I feel like I’m not alone. He fixes my computer and helps me around the home. He cooks for me! We enjoy doing many of the same things so I have a biking partner, and extra board game player, and another driver for road trips - among other things. I find him very attractive - we enjoy each other’s company and I love falling sleep in his arms. My life is wonderful, but in many ways he has made my life better... the days are more fun when I spend them with him.

 

It’s hard to appreciate how a relationship can change your life if you have never had a relationship. But, I think your question is also - how do I know what to look for in a partner. Nobody can answer that question for you. But, back to your most recent post... if you think it’s only physical, you could not be more wrong. It’s about how you feel, and how your partner feels when you are together. One of the reasons why you struggle with this is because you try to reason everything... but, it’s a feeling that you get with another person that makes it so special.

 

 

I have had that, only twice ever, its the only thing I chase but I never ever seem to find it. Once you have had that its all you ever want. Its what I keep saying, someone either makes me feel that or they don't. I then get told "oh you must wait 5 dates" what is the point to that, its either there or it isn't, I either want to see the person again or I don't.

 

 

Reasoning makes me feel better because if I can assign a reason to something I can rationalise it.

[BaileyB]

I have had that, only twice ever, its the only thing I chase but I never ever seem to find it. Once you have had that its all you ever want. Its what I keep saying, someone either makes me feel that or they don't. I then get told "oh you must wait 5 dates" what is the point to that, its either there or it isn't, I either want to see the person again or I don't.

 

 

Reasoning makes me feel better because if I can assign a reason to something I can rationalise it.

 

You sound like my boyfriend, who says that jokingly, because he knows... there are things in life that try as you might, you can not put logic too...

Edited July 3, 2018 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

You sound like my boyfriend, who says that jokingly, because he knows... there are things in life that try as you might, you can not put logic too... I remind him of that, all the time.

 

My friend, the question you should ask is not “someone either makes me feel that way or they don’t,” rather “how can I make someone feel that way about me.” Because, I have got to tell you... I am a conversationalist - I will answer all your questions, and expand, and ask questions in return, and reflect your feelings... we could have a great conversation. But, you would not get a second date with me because you would not make me feel good about myself and you would not be very much fun to date. If you have any hope of being successful in a relationship, you need to get out of your head and learn how to make a woman feel good to spend time with you... it has nothing to do with your wealth, or your intelligence, or your sex appeal.

 

 

 

Hard as this might be to believe when I do find someone I like this is all I try to do. For me a win is "I had fun or I enjoy spending time with you" I have managed to get both before but I am still not looked at as dating material or the people aren't single to begin with. I don't know anyone single I would want to date, that's the other problem so I am left with working with people who are already dating and that means I then need to bring something different to the table or just be happy in the friend zone.

 

 

There is a lot to me but I need the right sort of personality to bring it out, it works really well with some but very poorly with others. I think its probably because if I show less I don't really care if I am rejected, I need to really like the person.

 

 

What frustrating is I know what I can do and what I can be but I tend to just wonder around doing maybe 50% of that because why throw everything into a dating situation where I don't really like the person that much. I can be out and only once did I actually compete for someone and lost to someone who played this completely false personality, she went out with him not me. Every time I just look at the situation and whether I am likely to be able to compete and the answer is usually no.

 

 

When I work I throw 100% into it because I enjoy what I do, well most days anyway. I don't enjoy being judged by some person I have just met.

 

 

My friends for them its all about sex, they do very well with this approach but with respect to them few of these people I find interesting even if many of them are very good looking. Does it make me a bad person to actually want more than just physical?

 

 

At the end of the day its an unforgiving world when it comes to dating, I just wish for a while to have what you described a few posts back and I do once in a while but on a friend level.

[Haydn]

It`s you mate, not them.

 

Forget logic when dating, just have a laugh!

 

As unbearable it is for you, imagine how they feel?

 

Bloke turns up with a clipboard, and dissects everything little thing.

 

Obviously you are overthinking everything but do take some advice from posters here.

 

You are coming off as extremely arrogant and entitled.

 

Which as we know are `turn off`s `

[ZA Dater]

It`s you mate, not them.

 

Forget logic when dating, just have a laugh!

 

As unbearable it is for you, imagine how they feel?

 

Bloke turns up with a clipboard, and dissects everything little thing.

 

Obviously you are overthinking everything but do take some advice from posters here.

 

You are coming off as extremely arrogant and entitled.

 

Which as we know are `turn off`s `

 

 

 

I just don't have that humorous personality and the charm that seems to work well. I can try do that but its actually very difficult to try and keep up that charade for a few hours, more so when people don't get mu dry humour to begin with.

 

 

Have seen guys really charm and get ladies to laugh and even an can see that this works very well but I just never get it right, mostly because I don't meet people I want to try with.

 

 

Overthinking, yes I do it because when I don't I can be prone to saying exactly the wrong thing, like someone I wanted to date for ages and when eventually I got a date I stuck my foot in it within 15 minutes and she was back with her ex the following week.

 

 

I tend to agree, that I guess I would be hard work in a dating context for various reasons but the irony is I am described as a good friend. So perhaps that's proof you can be one but not the other.

[JuneL]

Why do you want to have a girlfriend?

[normal person]

The problem with the people I generally meet is there isn't enough meat to talk about, I ask them about work they don't expand, I ask them about interests they don't expand. It becomes painful trying to get any conversation to flow, the best dates are where the conversation flows but I suppose I will get blamed for this too.

 

It seems you meet a very surprising amount of these people. More than I've ever met. Here's a tip, if they aren't that engaging online, or wherever you initially meet them, they probably won't be that engaging when you take them out, either.

 

I have never ever seen the need to sell myself,

 

Maybe that's why you've always been single. Potential partners are looking to see how you'll enrich their lives, and you won't take any measure to display it. It's like you're a car salesman who won't let a potential buyer take a test drive, or even hear about any of the features, or why it's better than another car. Your philosophy does well to satisfy your own integrity, but not others' inherent desire for a productive partner, or even their curiosity about whether or not you'll be one.

 

you either like me as a person or you don't.

 

Says you. For them to like you "as a person," they'll need to know more than just your noticeable personality traits. Also, someone's personality traits and the other aspects of their life are intertwined. Don't you think someone's personality and character affect the work they do, or the goals they have, or their relationships?

 

I like people for people not for what they have,

 

Good for you. For most people, it's not a black and white issue. Most people will care both about your personality and what you bring to the table. To think otherwise is to say that women should like a nice homeless man in the same way they like a nice CEO. Both are nice, but you're being laughably blind to the fact that an appealing personality is often just a prerequisite for them to consider all the other things about you, or vice versa.

 

I admire someone who goes all out to better themselves, someone who is well read, someone with the ability to talk about a diverse range of subjects.

 

What if someone does all those things and is in massive debt? Would that affect your view of her at all? That's something that would matter to most people. If it were you who was in debt, most women consider it a strike against. Are you trying to say it wouldn't matter to you?

 

 

A big part of your problem is that you expect the world to operate on your terms. The sooner you realize it doesn't, the less you'll struggle. Your threads have a common theme:

 

ZA: I have problem "X"

LS: Try doing "Y" instead, it's much more conducive to getting what you want.

ZA: I have no interest in doing "Y." I have always done things the opposite of "Y" and I refuse to compromise my integrity or be a sheep. Everyone should just do "Z" like me.

LS: "Z" is not practical. You won't change how people operate by suggesting such.

ZA: That's totally fine as I can assure you, I'm much happier doing things my own way, not conforming to any laughable societal standard.

 

Thread closes, one week later, a new thread:

 

ZA: I have problem "X"

 

At some point hopefully you'll realize you don't have much time left. If you're really happier doing things you own way, that's fine. Just do them that way and accept your fate. But if you really want help, there's not much anyone can do unless you're willing to step off the mountain a considerable amount. Otherwise you'll be making these threads and having these same conversations for another 3 years. If there was a solution to your problem under the current circumstances that you refuse to change, don't you think we would've come across it by now in one of your dozens of threads about this sort of thing?

 

The adage is "Adapt, or die." You refuse to adapt on principle. You've made your choice. You know the outcome now. So why keep going on like this?

Edited July 3, 2018 by normal person

[ZA Dater]

Why do you want to have a girlfriend?

 

So I don't have to spend each day on my own.

[GemmaUK]

So I don't have to spend each day on my own.

 

Then make some real effort. Currently, you don't. It's obvious in how you write, the words you use and your writing style (written word is effective is sussing a person btw - much like body language is)

Step away from K (the one you began your threads here about - she is in a long term relationship anyway now and didn't agree to date you).

Dating is not rate-able in terms of margin performance or investment return.

 

It is as Bailey said a feeling - but to expect to feel totally amazed and 'all in' on a first meet is completely unrealistic.

Stop dating women on Tinder who have totally obvious deal breakers for you - you seem to do it as a hobby. You say you ask someone on a date because you are bored. Please give these people some respect and stop doing that right now.

[JuneL]

So I don't have to spend each day on my own.

 

So assuming you've found someone like one of those two amazing girls (by your standard) who actually likes you back, would it be fine if you don't engage in any intimacy with her: no sex, no kissing, no cuddling?

[ZA Dater]

So assuming you've found someone like one of those two amazing girls (by your standard) who actually likes you back, would it be fine if you don't engage in any intimacy with her: no sex, no kissing, no cuddling?

 

Never said no to those things at all. Just being realistic as to my prospects of getting them.

[JuneL]

Never said no to those things at all. Just being realistic as to my prospects of getting them.

 

Again, my question was: Would it be fine with you if you have met your dream girl who reciprocates, but intimacy is off the table?

[ZA Dater]

Then make some real effort. Currently, you don't. It's obvious in how you write, the words you use and your writing style (written word is effective is sussing a person btw - much like body language is)

Step away from K (the one you began your threads here about - she is in a long term relationship anyway now and didn't agree to date you).

Dating is not rate-able in terms of margin performance or investment return.

 

It is as Bailey said a feeling - but to expect to feel totally amazed and 'all in' on a first meet is completely unrealistic.

Stop dating women on Tinder who have totally obvious deal breakers for you - you seem to do it as a hobby. You say you ask someone on a date because you are bored. Please give these people some respect and stop doing that right now.

 

I think it's also not realistic to have to wait 3 dates to be impressed. Frankly all those I have liked I liked when I first met them so it's definitely possible.

 

I'd argue it is very rateable. If I am interested it's a success, if not it isn't. If there is some synergy it's a success,. If not it isn't.

 

Not sure what sort of effort you expect me to make, I try talk to people, I try eye contact with random people, I even try to smile.

 

Tinder, sure it's not ideal but better than nothing. Fyi I haven't had any dates since the last disaster nor is there currently anyone of interest.

[ZA Dater]

Again, my question was: Would it be fine with you if you have met your dream girl who reciprocates, but intimacy is off the table?

 

Well it wouldn't work would it because she probably would expect Casanova not some awkward guy. So yes realistically probably the best I could reasonably expect is a dream girl as a friend.

[JuneL]

Well it wouldn't work would it because she probably would expect Casanova not some awkward guy. So yes realistically probably the best I could reasonably expect is a dream girl as a friend.

 

I was asking what YOU need. If you just need a companion and you don't have the need for female intimacy, I don't see why you need a girlfriend to be honest. Get a roommate.

[ZA Dater]

I was asking what YOU need. If you just need a companion and you don't have the need for female intimacy, I don't see why you need a girlfriend to be honest. Get a roommate.

 

Wants and needs are very different. Sure I'd want everything, am I likely to get it. Not so much. Time and time again the two never match up. What I dont want us easy to get and what I do want is impossible to get.

 

I don't see many people putting in much effort, if you are charming make people laugh well you are set. Seemingly

[Imajerk17]

Wants and needs are very different. Sure I'd want everything, am I likely to get it. Not so much. Time and time again the two never match up. What I dont want us easy to get and what I do want is impossible to get.

 

I don't see many people putting in much effort, if you are charming make people laugh well you are set. Seemingly

 

Well, yes. It makes perfect sense to me. Most people want to be in a relationship with someone who makes them FEEL a certain way.

 

More to the point, a woman isn't going to decide to feel a connection w you due to your career, how good-looking you are, how interesting your list of hobbies are, and so on and so forth. Indeed, those things will *help* get a guy the FIRST date, but they don't help a guy get a SECOND date.

 

I'd like to see you succeed ZA, as underneath it all you do seem like a good guy. But, I do find it interesting that your original question is "why can't people be liked for who they are" but then you go on to say how you don't like the people you meet yourself. I can understand if this is just frustration talking. But it would be far more honest and productive of you to be asking instead how you can be better making a connection with others. (And to listen w an open mind.)

 

Meanwhile, with all the above said, as intellectual stimulation is such an important trait for you in a partner, why not screen much more heavily for that in your dates than you are doing now. I know this has been said many many times on your threads before.

[Adiron]

Why do you want to have a girlfriend?

So I don't have to spend each day on my own.

 

Get a puppy.

[BaileyB]

Get a puppy.

 

Also my thought.

 

It's going to take a special kind of woman... You are exhausting, OP.

[MidwestUSA]

Also my thought.

 

It's going to take a special kind of woman... You are exhausting, OP.

 

Get a puppy.

 

 

Come on guys! They're the worst type of fakers!

 

All that joyful exuberance when I come home, the sloppy kisses. Laying on my feet on a cold winter night. The wagging tails that knock **** off the coffee table.

 

It's an act. All designed to get what they want. Treats.

 

Do you think they're still loving on me after they get what they want?

 

Oh, wait, yes they are!

[Blanco]

From my observations, most women take to guys who are disarming; guys who can put them at ease. If your posts convey your IRL personality, then I'd say you're kind of the opposite.

 

You take yourself and the world around you so seriously that you leave no margin for any banter, any light and relaxed or amusing moments. You see human relationships through such a rote, analytical lens that you regularly fail to connect with your fellow man in any substantial way.

 

I don't know you personally, but the kind of woman you desire isn't usually interested in dating condescending wet blankets. Your posts in these threads project that aura and, quite frankly, it's not hard to gauge why you're struggling with the dating world.

 

There's a fine line between discussion and debating. You seem to fancy the latter and misidentify it at the former.

[ZA Dater]

From my observations, most women take to guys who are disarming; guys who can put them at ease. If your posts convey your IRL personality, then I'd say you're kind of the opposite.

 

You take yourself and the world around you so seriously that you leave no margin for any banter, any light and relaxed or amusing moments. You see human relationships through such a rote, analytical lens that you regularly fail to connect with your fellow man in any substantial way.

 

I don't know you personally, but the kind of woman you desire isn't usually interested in dating condescending wet blankets. Your posts in these threads project that aura and, quite frankly, it's not hard to gauge why you're struggling with the dating world.

 

There's a fine line between discussion and debating. You seem to fancy the latter and misidentify it at the former.

 

 

 

Except I am not condescending. You say I look at things analytically and yes I do because in order to understand failure you need to understand success. I look around at those who do fairly well at dating and yes I try and copy some of that but it doesn't work because its not who I am i.e. the act isn't very convincing. Nothing made me more unhappy than doing this whole charade, primarily because I hoped for some return but got nothing.

 

 

I actually have no problem interacting with people if there is some common interest and anything in common really. The problem arrives when there is nothing in common as happens at virtually all of my dates.

 

 

Then I need to try and find common ground and sure its sometimes found, sometimes not but even then even if I try sell myself in an albeit clumsy way it doesn't work. I know the sort of person that I work well with its just a case of finding someone like that. But someone like that has loads of better options or are never single.

[Adiron]

Except I am not condescending.

 

Sure you are. Do you even know the definition of the word? "Definition of condescending. : showing or characterized by a patronizing or superior attitude toward others."

 

You post time and time again about how no one interests you because they aren't smart enough to figure out your so-called challenges and they aren't worth your time because they never have anything interesting to say and they're puzzled because they cannot comprehend what you're telling them.

 

I don't think you really mean it, deep inside you're lonely and miserable and frustrated and you're doing that whole sour grapes thing in your head, and out comes "I'm better than everybody that's why I never find someone I like". Regardless of how true it is or isn't, it's the classic definition of condescending.

[basil67]

ZA dater, your descriptions of you working at fitting in remind me of the title of a memoir I read years ago: 'Pretending to be Normal'. It was by Liane Holliday Willey if you're interested.

[Chilli]

l was thinking about this thread although God knows how with stuff l have going on , the minds a funny thing yeah.

 

But, people are saying give things a chance people a chance and that's a huge huge thing.

It doesn't matter how clever or intellectual we are or if we have a 180 1Q , or not interested in that one or this one.

You'd be amazed at what the simplest of person, know , and in what they can have to offer and have to say , or observe, and 20 other things.

 

So if you close that door on them , they'll usually spot it and feel it at 100 paces, they already know what you've just decided , seen it .

And that's it , the shops closed.

People will know your different to them and you'll know they're different to you , so what !

They don't mind they might even like it , as long as your still open to them and have a laugh or chat or whatever. And you might be amazed at how you enjoy their company.

If not a relationship potential , so what , enjoy them anyway. What goes around comes around.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Chilli