Why can't people be liked for who they are

[ZA Dater]

It seems like you hate yourself. That's the problem. Stop trying to reinvent yourself it's a huge waste of time. Begin by radically accepting who you are now and forget about manipulating situations, others or yourself.

 

 

 

Don't hate myself at all. Detest the fact being myself brings no positive dating results.

 

 

Seems its a choice, one or the other. On balance I suppose I can just convince myself I am not missing out on anything at all.....

[JuneL]

Here is the fundamental flaw in your logic. I at least gave them a chance, cant say I am afforded the same opportunity. So whilst some in this thread go on and on about taking people on 3 or 4 dates before dismissing them, others wont take people on one date if they don't like the look of them, at least I fall somewhere in between, well most of the time anyway.

 

 

Because I have no interest in them doesn't mean I don't appreciate who they are, there is a big difference there.

 

These ladies who rejected you may have given chance to plenty of guys they’re not too excited about. They just didn’t give YOU chance, much the same way you didn’t give single mothers any chance. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having dealbreakers, as everybody has them.

 

And oh, some people just have plenty of options, or they are happy staying single. So they can afford to reject a first date based on the tiniest thing.

Edited July 24, 2018 by JuneL

[JuneL]

These ladies who rejected you may have given chance to plenty of guys they’re not too excited about. They just didn’t give YOU chance, much the same way you didn’t give single mothers any chance. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having dealbreakers, as everybody has them.

 

And oh, some people just have plenty of options, or they are happy staying single. So they can afford to reject a first date based on the tiniest thing.

 

Also, you’ve only been rejected less than a handful of times, right? For the rest, you pretty much rejected each other, no? Has any lady ever initiated a 3rd or 4th date with you?

[JuneL]

Again, you’re entitled to not dating single mothers. In fact, I wouldn’t if I were a guy at your age. But I suspect single mothers may be more willing to overlook your lack of social skills and more willing to guide you through your inexperience. They’ve been there and done that, so they may not make a big deal out of those things.

[Normm]

Here is the fundamental flaw in your logic. I at least gave them a chance, cant say I am afforded the same opportunity.

 

 

They give you a chance. That's what the first date is for. You don't ever get a second chance because whatever that girl across the person sees during the time you spend together, she wants no part of. Which is also why you never really see anything in many of these girls you go out with for a one and only first date. They don't open up to you. They don't say much, and you blame THEM. You say they have no personality and nothing to offer but the truth is, you don't know. You can't know because they haven't shared themselves with you.

 

 

I am not liked, I get that but don't then tell me I am wrong to not like many others either.

 

 

There's nothing "wrong" with your approach, you just won't ever be successful as long as you persist in what is commonly known as "blame shifting". If it always seems to be everyone else, it probably isn't everyone else.

[ZA Dater]

They give you a chance. That's what the first date is for. You don't ever get a second chance because whatever that girl across the person sees during the time you spend together, she wants no part of. Which is also why you never really see anything in many of these girls you go out with for a one and only first date. They don't open up to you. They don't say much, and you blame THEM. You say they have no personality and nothing to offer but the truth is, you don't know. You can't know because they haven't shared themselves with you.

 

 

 

 

 

There's nothing "wrong" with your approach, you just won't ever be successful as long as you persist in what is commonly known as "blame shifting". If it always seems to be everyone else, it probably isn't everyone else.

 

 

 

Oh I am not blame shifting, I am quite fine with admitting I am misfit who doesn't conform to what people want. No issue at all. But don't tell me miss teacher who offered up nothing is completely blameless either. Its very much a two way street.

 

 

I don't absolutely need people to open up to me I need them to show a modicum of class and intellect. Have some ambition for example. Whether you had 10 boyfriends before, factually I couldn't care. I don't put a lot of relevance on that, but HUGE relevance is placed on whether I drink wine or not. Huge relevance is put on "when was your last relationship" I think next time if there ever is a next time I am going to make up the most ridiculous story, maybe that the way to answer these irrelevant questions with ridiculousness.

 

 

I don't open up to people or very rarely so I cant really expect them to open up to me, that's the truth of it. For me on a first date the most important thing is being able to converse with whoever is there, if this goes well the date goes well, if it doesn't the date is a disaster, there is no middle ground here.

 

 

Why don't I open up to people, what is the point in spilling ones life story to someone I can see I don't get along with. I have learnt its considerably easier to "non sell" than it is to sell because if I go on a date I and I can see it wont work, I am not going to go out to make the person like me.

[Normm]

Oh I am not blame shifting, I am quite fine with admitting I am misfit who doesn't conform to what people want. No issue at all. But don't tell me miss teacher who offered up nothing is completely blameless either. Its very much a two way street.

 

It's not about if she's at fault as much as, more than, or less than you are. You're the 34 year old virgin who can't get a second date and you're clearly unhappy as per your posts on this forum. One of the many reasons for your problems is that you are under the mistaken impression that these all these people have nothing to offer with the exception of perhaps 1 or 2; you're not interested because they "have no personality" or don't "understand your challenges. I'm simply pointing out that you're probably mistaken in assuming that these people have nothing to offer- they just aren't offering it to YOU. So go ahead and blame them for not being interesting but it won't get you anywhere.

 

I don't absolutely need people to open up to me I need them to show a modicum of class and intellect.

 

Like I said, if they're sitting there not speaking, they aren't interested in offering you anything. Their only thought is how fast they can end the date.

 

Have some ambition for example.

 

There you go again blaming them for not having ambition because they aren't being open with you. They just-aren't-interested.

 

HUGE relevance is placed on whether I drink wine or not.

 

The lack of wine drinking wouldn't matter if they felt you had other redeeming qualities.

 

Huge relevance is put on "when was your last relationship"

 

They're probably asking you that because you're socially inadequate and you're simply validating what they already suspect when you say you've never actually BEEN in a relationship.

[ZA Dater]

Also, you’ve only been rejected less than a handful of times, right? For the rest, you pretty much rejected each other, no? Has any lady ever initiated a 3rd or 4th date with you?

 

 

 

I got to date 2 once but looking back I must have been mad at the time, she wasn't my cup of tea at all, the fact she turned up on said date with a friend didn't really wow me either.

 

 

So the answer to your question is NO. Have a met people I have wanted to go on multiple dates with, sure, a few, more than you might think actually. Why, there was always something fundamentally interesting about them, be it a profession, an outlook, something different about them. I have always tended to look for that quality.

 

 

Its probably this which infuriates me so much because I fail to understand why more people simply don't challenge convention, ask why rather than accept. I went to a club last week, the place was packed but I asked myself how many were there because they wanted to or because they felt they needed to?

 

 

One of the nicest personalities I have met was a Romanian stripper and NO she wasn't working at the time, she was a friend of a friend. A lovely warm personality and she had had an interesting life. One evening she took me out and it was really nice, of course the entire forum will judge her based on what she does but not who she is.

 

 

Conversation worked with her, whereas the CPA I went out with had nothing to say despite us being in similar lines of work. K does marketing and writing among others things and had diverse interests, there is never a lack of conversation when I engage with her there is genuine mutual interest in the conversation.

 

 

Most of you think I just switch off, trust me I don't, dates are rare enough for me so I need to try find some positive out of them, even if ultimately I don't.

[ZA Dater]

It's not about if she's at fault as much as, more than, or less than you are. You're the 34 year old virgin who can't get a second date and you're clearly unhappy as per your posts on this forum. One of the many reasons for your problems is that you are under the mistaken impression that these all these people have nothing to offer with the exception of perhaps 1 or 2; you're not interested because they "have no personality" or don't "understand your challenges. I'm simply pointing out that you're probably mistaken in assuming that these people have nothing to offer- they just aren't offering it to YOU. So go ahead and blame them for not being interesting but it won't get you anywhere.

 

 

 

Like I said, if they're sitting there not speaking, they aren't interested in offering you anything. Their only thought is how fast they can end the date.

 

 

 

There you go again blaming them for not having ambition because they aren't being open with you. They just-aren't-interested.

 

 

 

The lack of wine drinking wouldn't matter if they felt you had other redeeming qualities.

 

 

 

They're probably asking you that because you're socially inadequate and you're simply validating what they already suspect when you say you've never actually BEEN in a relationship.

 

 

 

 

 

They speak, just generally nothing of interesting, have no opinions on anything. There have been exceptions but they have been few and far between.

 

 

Throw me into a big debate and I can cut it, throw many of these people in and I'd hate to see what would happen, such has been some of the apathy. I simply cannot take people to events where there are learned people present.

 

 

I can cut it socially if there is some latitude to actually get into some meaningful conversation, again I wouldn't be very good at work if I couldn't do the social thing.

 

 

Then again I guess I am wrong a date is about having fun and ultimately landing up on ones back. The fact the person has nothing interesting to say is irrelevant.

[ZA Dater]

Again, you’re entitled to not dating single mothers. In fact, I wouldn’t if I were a guy at your age. But I suspect single mothers may be more willing to overlook your lack of social skills and more willing to guide you through your inexperience. They’ve been there and done that, so they may not make a big deal out of those things.

 

 

 

I have been on dates with single mothers, the results aren't a lot different, if anything its even more awkward because I am not overly curious about kids, sure I'll ask about them but not overly so.

 

 

But yes you might be right but the desperation some of them give off is very off putting.

 

 

How many dates did I realty want to see again, maybe 5 or 6. Each one I regretted making a mess of it because I had not clue what I was suppose to do and you know what I still don't really I make it up as I go along.

 

 

Case in point

 

 

"Hope you had a great evening and your day has improved"

"Yes it has, some people have an amazing ability to make any day a good day"

[Normm]

They speak, just generally nothing of interesting, have no opinions on anything.

 

You are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with these people who don't choose to share their opinions or intelligence with you. Or you simply date nothing but stupid people. My money is on the former.

 

I simply cannot take people to events where there are learned people present.

 

You can't take them anywhere because you never hear from them again. You don't know what they're capable of because they have chosen not to open up to you. Is there an echo in here?

 

again I wouldn't be very good at work if I couldn't do the social thing.

 

Some people can be very efficient and successful in their careers and yet completely lack social skills. You appear to be one of those people.

 

Then again I guess I am wrong a date is about having fun and ultimately landing up on ones back.

 

Dating can be loads of fun. Just don't go into it with any expectations. At this point you're probably nervous as anything when you finally get a date because of your past failures and how difficult it is to meet someone new and when you get rejected the hurt just piles on so you feel like you're "flat on your back" while some other guy might just shrug his shoulders and move on to the next.

[Normm]

But yes you might be right but the desperation some of them give off is very off putting.

 

You've done the same. It was obvious in that one text exchange you posted a while back.

 

Case in point

 

"Hope you had a great evening and your day has improved"

"Yes it has, some people have an amazing ability to make any day a good day"

 

What does this even mean? No wonder people are puzzled when they converse with you.

[JuneL]

What does this even mean? No wonder people are puzzled when they converse with you.

 

That’s his awkward way of “challenging you”, silly

[Normm]

That’s his awkward way of “challenging you”, silly

 

 

I'm clearly not worthy but that's ok I wasn't planning on asking for a second date anyway.

[JuneL]

I'm clearly not worthy but that's ok I wasn't planning on asking for a second date anyway.

 

K must be a hell of a mind reader!

[Normm]

K must be a hell of a mind reader!

 

 

Or she's got a nice rack.

[ZA Dater]

You are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with these people who don't choose to share their opinions or intelligence with you. Or you simply date nothing but stupid people. My money is on the former.

 

 

 

You can't take them anywhere because you never hear from them again. You don't know what they're capable of because they have chosen not to open up to you. Is there an echo in here?

 

 

 

Some people can be very efficient and successful in their careers and yet completely lack social skills. You appear to be one of those people.

 

 

 

Dating can be loads of fun. Just don't go into it with any expectations. At this point you're probably nervous as anything when you finally get a date because of your past failures and how difficult it is to meet someone new and when you get rejected the hurt just piles on so you feel like you're "flat on your back" while some other guy might just shrug his shoulders and move on to the next.

 

 

Don't disagree with any of that. I have just never found it loads of fun ever. I would say I am passed the nervous stage but the rest holds true to a certain extent, its great for guys who have options and have universal appeal, I don't have either of those things. So yes, in theory its lovely to be able to move onto the next, for some of us the next simply isn't there.

 

 

No there is just a disconnect between me and them. There is never any glue to glue the whole date together, no common ground, no common interests and it very much becomes a conversation about nothing.

 

 

Here is an example of what I mean. I am busy (slowly) writing a novel and its one of the things I put on my profile.

 

 

Date: So tell me about your novel you are writing

Me: Well its a mixture of everything, suspense, romance and intrigue.

Me: Do you read books and if so have you read any great ones lately

Date: Well I don't really read.

 

 

My point is this why ask me about something you have no interest in to begin with, take the conversation down to a dead end.

 

 

Compare to this exchange

 

 

Date: Have you read The Handmaids Tale, or seen the series, its very good and I found it made me question the world we live in, in essence it prescribes a very set role for women in society whereby men are clearly projected as the superior.

Me: I haven't but I will be sure to watch the series. My views is there needs to be equality and respect in society between men an women. I think anything that projects and alternative is interesting to watch/read. I think the world is constantly evolving if you compare the role of women in society today to say the 1950's.

 

 

See the difference, someone brought something new to the table and the whole conversation went on about the roles of men and women and I have started watching the series and am quite enjoying it.

 

 

It makes no logical sense but I need this sort of thing to get the date going, I can then spin of the usual more personal questions from this. it was the same thing with a personal trainer I met a few months back (friend of a friend but not single), got on really well with her from the off because I could see some intellect, some opinion.

[ZA Dater]

That’s his awkward way of “challenging you”, silly

 

 

 

Makes perfect sense to me. Its very understandable if one reads between the lines.

 

 

All I am saying is 'there are some people, being you who make any day a good day".

 

 

Point taken though, I do this sort of subtle thing a lot which some people get and others don't, the smile that accompanied this suggested she got it. This is probably another issue, people simply don't follow me.

 

 

Subtle works because I am not outright saying something but implying something. I employ the same sort of day humour, either they get it or they don't.

[basil67]

Date: So tell me about your novel you are writing

Me: Well its a mixture of everything, suspense, romance and intrigue.

Me: Do you read books and if so have you read any great ones lately

Date: Well I don't really read.

 

Sorry ZA, the fail in this conversation was squarely on you. And do I remember rightly that you complain that women don't ask you about yourself?

 

She asked the question because she was trying to get to know you. However, you gave her an overly simplistic answer and hit the ball back to her. You could have talked about how long you've been trying to write. About if you find writing easy or difficult. About where you find inspiration. About finding the courage to tackle your dream. But no, you basically dodged the question and then complain because she doesn't read.

 

It's normal to ask about a partner's life even if they are things we don't personally do. When I met my hubby, I asked him about the gym he goes to. He told me how often he goes, about the people there, about the types of exercise he does. He probably segued into loving soccer. Or his skiing. Now, I had no experiences with any of those things, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't ask about his interests and learn more about him.

 

Heck, I ask him about his job in IT each night despite having little understanding of it outside using my PC.

Edited July 25, 2018 by basil67

[Alamo657]

1: Dating coach

2: Makeover

3: Therapist

4: Work on yourself

Perhaps I am over thinking but why is any of that important, none it changes who you are and none of it changes your fundamental personality.

 

Exactly, no matter the amount of self-improvement, your personnality doesnt change. You can however become more active, more involved, more interesting, less awkward, which makes other people accept your personnality, even if its flawed, because you entertain them.

 

See the "bad boy" personnality that makes all the "beta males" fret over ? That's just it : the person sounds terrible, but is interesting/entertaining, and thats enough for some (i'd say, most) people to excuse bad attitude.

 

The worst social disease is not being fat, poor, with mental issues... the true social disease is being awkward, boring, and lonely.

We have a saying with a friend : "the funny little big guy scores much more than the fit but bland one". Never proven wrong.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Alamo657

[brigit87]

Exactly, no matter the amount of self-improvement, your personnality doesnt change. You can however become more active, more involved, more interesting, less awkward, which makes other people accept your personnality, even if its flawed, because you entertain them.

 

See the "bad boy" personnality that makes all the "beta males" fret over ? That's just it : the person sounds terrible, but is interesting/entertaining, and thats enough for some (i'd say, most) people to excuse bad attitude.

 

The worst social disease is not being fat, poor, with mental issues... the true social disease is being awkward, boring, and lonely.

We have a saying with a friend : "the funny little big guy scores much more than the fit but bland one". Never proven wrong.

 

This is very true. Charm goes a long way. And I don't know if it can be taught. You'll need to quickly read the others body language interpret it correctly and make a witty comment. Doesn't have to be hilarious but a little funny and clever. You don't need to be great looking but attractive enough to know how to look someone in the eye and make them feel good about you giving them attention.

 

You can be crazy as hell and still get ppl to fall in love with you.

Edited July 25, 2018 by brigit87

[Normm]

Makes perfect sense to me. Its very understandable if one reads between the lines.

 

 

It makes perfect sense to YOU. Not the person you're directing it towards. Which means that in your mind, they're not worthy of your time and interest. I didn't get your point and I've got a high IQ with the Mensa certificate and the physician degree on my wall to prove it.

 

All I am saying is 'there are some people, being you who make any day a good day".

 

Duh. No kidding that part is OBVIOUS. But look what you wrote prior to that statement. You used it as a "case in point", an example as to why your dates never go anywhere. But the way you presented it makes no sense whatsoever- and this happens quite often in your posts- you try to make some point, convey some idea, draw some sort of conclusion- but it comes across as unfinished gibberish- to everyone except you. Rather than being introspective and thinking "I need to find a better way to convey what I'm trying to say" you assume the person is just stupid, not up to your standards and therefore of no further interest to you.

 

Point taken though, I do this sort of subtle thing a lot which some people get and others don't, the smile that accompanied this suggested she got it. This is probably another issue, people simply don't follow me.

 

People don't follow you because you don't communicate clearly. The only one who gets the joke is you.

 

Subtle works because I am not outright saying something but implying something. I employ the same sort of day humour, either they get it or they don't.

 

You do a fine job at keeping yourself entertained. But that's not really why you're there, is it?

 

Sorry ZA, the fail in this conversation was squarely on you. And do I remember rightly that you complain that women don't ask you about yourself?

 

 

Agreed. He complains they show no interest and when they do he says "why ask about something you have no interest in".

 

 

Because it's a way to get a dialogue going. Because she just might become interested if you present it in an intriguing sort of way. Do these thoughts ever occur to you? It sounds like you gave up before you even started. "Here's your answer lady, now go ahead and act uninterested like everyone else".

 

 

She asked the question because she was trying to get to know you. However, you gave her an overly simplistic answer and hit the ball back to her.

 

 

Exactly. She tried, but the answer was very brief and boring. There is so much you could have done with it. You could have been emphatic, enthusiastic, expressive. Instead you respond like a teenager asked if he did all his chores and you put it all on the other person. "Why ask if you really don't care". This is a serious communication issue that will not be solved by thousands of posts on a relationship forum. You need therapy and a dating coach or you will continue to fail indefinitely.

[brigit87]

This is a serious communication issue that will not be solved by thousands of posts on a relationship forum. You need therapy and a dating coach or you will continue to fail indefinitely.

 

I agree.

 

OP maybe dating isn't for you? It sounds like most ppl bore you and it seems like you have other activities you find meaningful.

 

I find sports boring as hell. I think trying to get a ball to do something you want it to do is silly. Just leave the ball alone. But billions of ppl would disagree with me and love sports. I don't watch it or care about it. My life is fine without it. Your life might be fine without dating.

[Normm]

But billions of ppl would disagree with me and love sports. I don't watch it or care about it. My life is fine without it. Your life might be fine without dating.

 

The problem is ZA wants to meet a girl and be in a relationship. Desperately. You understand, but aren't interested in sports (neither am I except for football but I digress). He's interested in dating. He just doesn't understand it and how to go about doing it effectively. He's got 3 choices as I see it.

 

1- Continue to do the same thing the same way he's done it for the better part of 34 years and experience the same failures.

 

2- Make REAL changes which are impossible on his own because he doesn't have the ability to see the problems for what they are. That much being said he's made it clear that he believes dating coaches and therapists are a waste of time.

 

3- Give up.

 

 

Doesn't look very promising.

[normal person]

You do a fine job at keeping yourself entertained. But that's not really why you're there, is it?

 

At this point, one could make the argument.