Why can't people be liked for who they are

[JuneL]

ZA: Do you read books, and if so, have you read any great ones lately?

 

Date: Well I just read Keynes “General Theory” once again; reading the book this time definitely gave me a different perspective...what do you think about the book, btw?

 

ZA: I haven’t read this book...care to tell me about it?

 

Date: Oh forget it. Never mind.

[Thinking to herself: This guy is stupid. What a waste of my time!]

[Normm]

[Thinking to herself: This guy is stupid. What a waste of my time!]

 

 

Most if not all of his (rare) first dates probably end with both parties thinking the other one is lacking in intelligence and has nothing to offer.

[normal person]

Why must I be the one to show them anything?

 

Because you're the one here constantly complaining about how hard your dating life is, and unwilling to accept the consequences of your inability to change. This is the talk of a beggar who wants to be a chooser. The market has spoken, and this is the place your decisions have taken you, a place where you have no clout to complain that you have to expend effort or suffer discomfort.

 

All you're doing now is echoing hollow old complaints about "why isn't the world exactly the way I want it to be?" Well, it doesn't matter, does it? It's going to continue on the way it has whether you like it or not. You have volumes of complaints logged already and not a thing has changed in your lifetime. Maybe at some point you'll realize this is as good as it's going to get unless you adjust your attitude. So adapt, or die. You're 34, this is absolutely childish.

 

Surely you go on a date to try impress someone though I am told you go to have a good time so perhaps I am wrong on that one!

 

You can do whatever you want and deal with the consequences. You want to be bitter about having to step outside your comfort zone, and it's landed you back here. That's all this is.

 

It might but I'd at least like a few decent experiences before I decide its not for me.

 

What are you willing to do to get those experiences? And if you decide you aren't willing to do those things, will you accept the fact that you may not have the decent experiences? Then what?

[Normm]

This is the talk of a beggar who wants to be a chooser. The market has spoken, and this is the place your decisions have taken you, a place where you have no clout to complain that you have to expend effort or suffer discomfort.

 

^This guy's good. Nailed it.

 

I'm in the eyeglass business. We take a lot of low end Federal Medicaid plans, and some patients want "just what's covered by the insurance" even though they really want a no line progressive multifocal that darkens in the sun. They walk out with the free pair of bifocals with the line going across the lens and they squint in the bright sun because they don't darken outdoors. These are the patients that complain the most about their glasses.

 

You get out of it what you put into it. In the case of the Op on this thread and the cheap eyeglass patients, it ain't all that much.

[ZA Dater]

Your inability to comprehend why it's necessary to talk about things that interest you, with enthusiasm and even passion - regardless of the level of interest of the other person- is yet another example of how you continue to miss the boat.

 

You can sit there and continue to bash the other person and say "why should I try" and "it's not right that I should have to (whatever).." and "they don't interest me at all" until the cows come home but that attitude will get you no closer to that elusive second date.

 

All around you are people meeting and dating and are in relationships to varying degrees of success, and here you are, in a sort of bubble, with few to no potential first dates and unable to get past a first date when you do get one. In order to break this cycle of failure, you need to accept that the problem is clearly not with all those people around you. The problem lies squarely with the guy looking back at you in the mirror. Unless you are truly willing to make some changes and dispose of the "why must I" attitude you are well on your way to being a 90 year old virgin.

 

 

What makes you think I don't do that?

 

 

If I can see the other person isn't interested why should I ever bother?

 

 

Cant say I recall many dates being passionate about anything. For all your and at times somewhat brash advice much of it has been useful.

 

 

Actually pretty much nobody around me is in what I would call a functional relationship, a good friend goes between ladies at about the same rate I each lunches. At least he has some ability to choose.

 

 

I still believe its a two way street, I am not going to put myself out there for someone who isn't prepared to do the same.

 

 

Sure, its all my problem, even though I don't think is entirely my problem.

 

 

Seeing you have all the answers why don't you tell me definitely where I am supposed to find these people? PLEASE don't tell me meet up or some other clichéd place like a store of a book shop or a coffee shop.

 

 

Have you ever wondered why I chase the people I do/did? Its really simple I feel something with them. Am I attempting to do the impossible, probably but much of what I try to do is in that category. Perhaps that's the problem because I try the difficult I sort of assume everyone else does too.

[ZA Dater]

Because you're the one here constantly complaining about how hard your dating life is, and unwilling to accept the consequences of your inability to change. This is the talk of a beggar who wants to be a chooser. The market has spoken, and this is the place your decisions have taken you, a place where you have no clout to complain that you have to expend effort or suffer discomfort.

 

All you're doing now is echoing hollow old complaints about "why isn't the world exactly the way I want it to be?" Well, it doesn't matter, does it? It's going to continue on the way it has whether you like it or not. You have volumes of complaints logged already and not a thing has changed in your lifetime. Maybe at some point you'll realize this is as good as it's going to get unless you adjust your attitude. So adapt, or die. You're 34, this is absolutely childish.

 

 

 

You can do whatever you want and deal with the consequences. You want to be bitter about having to step outside your comfort zone, and it's landed you back here. That's all this is.

 

 

 

What are you willing to do to get those experiences? And if you decide you aren't willing to do those things, will you accept the fact that you may not have the decent experiences? Then what?

 

 

I live with them so some would say that's acceptance. Change to what? The change argument falls flat on its face because nobody can tell me what to change to, there is no magic formula here.

 

 

Adapt to what?

 

 

Comfort zone, yes sure. That being what exactly? Am I just supposed to be interested in thing I am not, go to places I don't like all because miss perfect might be there, this life not a fairy tale.

 

 

The truth is I probably enjoy the fruitless chase more than I would enjoy the reality. I can go onto Tinder and get matches, terrible ones but matches nonetheless, I just don't want of them. I always want the ones I don't match with. I have observed others, tried to pick up what makes them successful and sure charm helps, socialising does to but not if you don't drink. Humour does too. Putting on some stupid fake personality helps too.

 

 

Clearly I am too dense to get the whole point in this, I always thought a date was just a friend you slept with. Overly simplistic but that's the essence of it.

 

 

I suppose because nobody has ever been there for me ever in life, its always just been me, I have never asked anyone for anything and learned to never rely on anyone either. Its probably why I do the good guy thing so well because if you feel irrelevant you become relevant being what few other people are.

 

 

Most of the time all of this is hidden, when dating comes up I just try pretend I have someone, spin some half truth, I go to events, K is there so I don't feel dateless, for a time I can live dating vicariously on what is a pretty well arranged sham. She knows it is just that, I don't pretend its anything else, she enjoys it for what it is.

 

 

Few know how lonely I feel most of the time. Change sure, change to what. Do what and why? Do I expect results, yes I do, its human nature. What I don't do is walk around the dark so whatever I do must have some sort of objective end result.

 

 

Last night I did push myself and she wasn't my cup of tea but I wanted to see if I tried something different how it would work from a social point of view, she challenged me and I did likewise which was probably why despite everyone else being pretty alcohol fuel it was still ok.

 

 

The results of my choices, yes I have and I'd love to go back 15 year to make other choices but I cant so I need to accept the heavy compromise I have to live with.

[normal person]

I still believe its a two way street,

 

Your beliefs (or more likely, desires) don't reflect reality. You simply wanting someone to do something doesn't mean they will, or have to. You won't accept the reality of the market conditions and your dating life has been bankrupt because of it. You as an individual are in such a spot wherein if you want something, you will have to do something uncomfortable for it. Like it or not, those are the cards you've been dealt. It's like you're saying "I believe there shouldn't be war or poverty." Yeah, wouldn't that be great? Yet there exists war and poverty, and those are harsh realities that people need to deal with. They can't be wished away. Don't try to undermine this argument by using the scale of each as a disqualifier. They are all situations that can't be changed merely by wishing they weren't so.

 

Imagine you were investing in a stock. You believe it's worth $100/share and you buy it at that price. It drops to $85. Then $70. Then $60. Now, the price the market is willing to pay is $60/share, and you still insist someone pay you $100 for it. WHY? If it were the other way around, would you pay someone $100 for it if you knew it could only be resold for $60?

 

I am not going to put myself out there for someone who isn't prepared to do the same.

 

"I am not going to accept $60 for something I believe is worth $100."

 

It's been years and years of this. No one is paying up, regardless of what you think they should do. So what are you going to do now?

[Normm]

What makes you think I don't do that?

 

I don't think you respond to questions about your interests with enthusiam and passion because you posted an example of how you respond and your answer was brief, flat, boring and uninspiring.

 

If I can see the other person isn't interested why should I ever bother?

 

How is it that you are unable to comprehend the reasons behind answering questions about yourself with passion and enthusiasm after it's been clearly explained to you multiple times in the past few hours by several helpful posters including me?

 

Actually pretty much nobody around me is in what I would call a functional relationship, a good friend goes between ladies at about the same rate I each lunches.

 

You gotta admit there's something to be said for having the ability to go through women on a regular basis especially compared to your dating successes or lack thereoff.

 

I still believe its a two way street, I am not going to put myself out there for someone who isn't prepared to do the same.

 

Often you don't know what a person is capable of until they feel comfortable opening themselves up to you. Some women such as the few you have dated have asked probing questions. Had you answered with, say a healthy dose of passion and enthusiasm, she might have responded in kind. But rather than doing that you say "why should I bother, she isn't interested" and you shoot yourself in the foot before you even take a complete step.

 

Sure, its all my problem, even though I don't think is entirely my problem.

 

Of course it's your problem. All these people you're dating aren't 34 year old virgins who never had a second date. YOU are.

 

Seeing you have all the answers why don't you tell me definitely where I am supposed to find these people? PLEASE don't tell me meet up or some other clichéd place like a store of a book shop or a coffee shop.

 

I've met many women via the online dating sites, primarily POF, Match, and OKCupid (the last one being where I met my girlfriend of 6 years).

 

Have you ever wondered why I chase the people I do/did?

 

No.

 

Perhaps that's the problem because I try the difficult I sort of assume everyone else does too.

 

That's not the problem. The problem is when you do get one on the hook you don't know what to do with her.

[brigit87]

 

It's been years and years of this. No one is paying up, regardless of what you think they should do. So what are you going to do now?

 

If this has been going on for years without success then if you keep "thinking" the same way you'll continue to fail at the dating game.

 

Changing the way you look at things or do things is VERY difficult. Most ppl don't change. They might change a bit but overall they don't change all that much. Your core personality is what it is for the most part.

 

At this point I don't see why you want to date. The dates sound massively uncomfortable.

[Imajerk17]

I don't agree. She doesn't read books so why bother talking about something she clearly has no interest in. See this is it, if I am not getting anything back why must I launch into a whole lecture. Its a complete waste of time.

 

Why must I be the one to show them anything? Surely you go on a date to try impress someone though I am told you go to have a good time so perhaps I am wrong on that one!

 

 

 

I'd love to find a date to discuss the merits of the GT3 versus the Cayman GT4 but that's about as likely as finding oil in my backyard.

 

Now I am confused. You were complaining about your dates not meeting you halfway not showing any interest in your hobbies. Here you had someone show interest in the novel you were writing despite her not being a reader herself and yet you are still griping

 

You are basically pulling a bait-n-switch on your dates. They are showing up hoping to share about themselves and find out more about you and vibe, and you instead are expecting them to give you a book report. [Or to talk about a topic that very few actually know much about.] And so you both walk away disappointed.

 

People have said this to you already though yet you refuse to consider that your viewpoint isn't serving you. You do go into a 'woe-is-me I just don't have it rant' but you don't make the adjustments. The reason why you have been stuck for so long is that you insist upon doing the same thing over and over and over and over again.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Imajerk17

[basil67]

What makes you think I don't do that?

 

If I can see the other person isn't interested why should I ever bother?

 

She IS interested. But the interest is in you, not books themselves. It's OK to talk about our passions and let ourselves shine with enthusiasm.

 

This woman has good communication skills and is using them to engage you. I had previously been believing you when you said that nobody asks about you, but clearly, you're misinterpreting what people do. This is someone who's interested in getting to know you - but you're not allowing her because she doesn't read.

[brigit87]

She IS interested. But the interest is in you, not books themselves. It's OK to talk about our passions and let ourselves shine with enthusiasm.

 

This woman has good communication skills and is using them to engage you. I had previously been believing you when you said that nobody asks about you, but clearly, you're misinterpreting what people do. This is someone who's interested in getting to know you - but you're not allowing her because she doesn't read.

 

This is a good post. In fact, the woman was being quite nice. She asked you about a subject that interested you not her.

 

From your high level of intelligence and your inability to read social cues my guess is that you have Aspergers.

[Normm]

It's a self defeating philosophy.

[ZA Dater]

Now I am confused. You were complaining about your dates not meeting you halfway not showing any interest in your hobbies. Here you had someone show interest in the novel you were writing despite her not being a reader herself and yet you are still griping

 

You are basically pulling a bait-n-switch on your dates. They are showing up hoping to share about themselves and find out more about you and vibe, and you instead are expecting them to give you a book report. [Or to talk about a topic that very few actually know much about.] And so you both walk away disappointed.

 

People have said this to you already though yet you refuse to consider that your viewpoint isn't serving you. You do go into a 'woe-is-me I just don't have it rant' but you don't make the adjustments. The reason why you have been stuck for so long is that you insist upon doing the same thing over and over and over and over again.

 

 

Perhaps but again I ask for alternatives and get the same clichéd advice of meet up etc.

[ZA Dater]

Your beliefs (or more likely, desires) don't reflect reality. You simply wanting someone to do something doesn't mean they will, or have to. You won't accept the reality of the market conditions and your dating life has been bankrupt because of it. You as an individual are in such a spot wherein if you want something, you will have to do something uncomfortable for it. Like it or not, those are the cards you've been dealt. It's like you're saying "I believe there shouldn't be war or poverty." Yeah, wouldn't that be great? Yet there exists war and poverty, and those are harsh realities that people need to deal with. They can't be wished away. Don't try to undermine this argument by using the scale of each as a disqualifier. They are all situations that can't be changed merely by wishing they weren't so.

 

Imagine you were investing in a stock. You believe it's worth $100/share and you buy it at that price. It drops to $85. Then $70. Then $60. Now, the price the market is willing to pay is $60/share, and you still insist someone pay you $100 for it. WHY? If it were the other way around, would you pay someone $100 for it if you knew it could only be resold for $60?

 

 

 

"I am not going to accept $60 for something I believe is worth $100."

 

It's been years and years of this. No one is paying up, regardless of what you think they should do. So what are you going to do now?

 

 

I am not going to back down on the assertion that ladies need to put in some effort too.

 

 

No I will do what is likely to net some sort of reward and doing things for the sake of doing them isn't one of those things I am likely to do.

 

 

Sure the market values me at zero. I have two options.

 

 

: don't give a f

: pander to the market

 

 

The former is more likely than the latter. What do I get out pander, no certainty that's for sure. I can go on dates pretend to be dense I suppose, pretend I like booze, clubs and sports. Not sure how well that pretend will go. Pretend to have no opinion on anything.

 

 

Reality is I don't really go out so its all mute anyway.

[ZA Dater]

I don't think you respond to questions about your interests with enthusiam and passion because you posted an example of how you respond and your answer was brief, flat, boring and uninspiring.

 

 

 

How is it that you are unable to comprehend the reasons behind answering questions about yourself with passion and enthusiasm after it's been clearly explained to you multiple times in the past few hours by several helpful posters including me?

 

 

 

You gotta admit there's something to be said for having the ability to go through women on a regular basis especially compared to your dating successes or lack thereoff.

 

 

 

Often you don't know what a person is capable of until they feel comfortable opening themselves up to you. Some women such as the few you have dated have asked probing questions. Had you answered with, say a healthy dose of passion and enthusiasm, she might have responded in kind. But rather than doing that you say "why should I bother, she isn't interested" and you shoot yourself in the foot before you even take a complete step.

 

 

 

Of course it's your problem. All these people you're dating aren't 34 year old virgins who never had a second date. YOU are.

 

 

 

I've met many women via the online dating sites, primarily POF, Match, and OKCupid (the last one being where I met my girlfriend of 6 years).

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

That's not the problem. The problem is when you do get one on the hook you don't know what to do with her.

 

 

 

Sure I'll launch in a whole speech as to why I like politics, world affairs, I'll then ask for an opinion and get met with the blank face? Its not nice for me and its not nice for her. Ok I'll then extoll the virtues of business and the challenges of M&A, to once again be greeted with a blank face. Ok, I'll then go on about the club I run, again pointless.

 

 

You say I don't talk passionately about anything , I used to but frankly I don't bother anymore because the results are always the same. But hey if I talk about this club and that festival then its fantastic. Or I'll spin something about classical music or history.

 

 

Let me give you an idea of the default way I go dating.

 

 

Me: So tell me about your childhood, where did you go to school, did you enjoy it and what made you get into ABC career

Me: That's interesting do you find your job stimulating or is it like most jobs, has its days, this usually is accompanied by a smile from me in an attempt to lighten the question.

Me: Do you have any sibling, older or younger, married or not, I have one sister but I hardly see her.

Me: What would you say has been your best life experience?

Me: What are you looking to accomplish in terms of life in the next few years, any outlandish plans (never use outlandish because 9/10 don't know what it means). I am looking to get settled in the various jobs I do and hopefully expand from that.

Me: What would you say shaped you as a person, what are your beliefs and would you say you are very family orientated.

Me: Do you watch and series? You know I think ABC series is great have you seen it?

 

 

To me those all seem reasonable questions to spin other questions and conversation off. However almost every time I do this I am greeted with little to no enthusiasm.

 

 

Of course I am sure this will get pulled apart here The point here is there is either a connection or not. I never get the sense any are attracted to me at all. Conversely you could say they rocked up so they must be interested enough. I just find none are actually that attractive.

 

 

Its much nicer more stimulating thing for me to chase what I probably cannot have than sit on one of these dates where I don't really find the person that attractive. SO yes in a converse way I pretty much am on the loosing team all the time but its preferable to a win that I don't really want.

[ZA Dater]

Some ladies do put some effort in. Others don't need to since their value is already pretty high as it is.

 

Option 3: Improve your value. This is what most of us guys do.

 

 

 

My experience those that put in no effort have zero value to me at all.

 

 

It depends what women value to begin with, if they valued the good parts of me I wouldn't have an issue at all. Instead there seems to be some sort of alternative value system which goes along the lines of the less nice the person is the more their value.

[basil67]

My experience those that put in no effort have zero value to me at all.

 

I just hope you don't classify the not reading woman as putting in no effort or a bad conversationalist. She did everything right.

[brigit87]

 

 

Me: What are you looking to accomplish in terms of life in the next few years, any outlandish plans (never use outlandish because 9/10 don't know what it means). I am looking to get settled in the various jobs I do and hopefully expand from that.

Me: What would you say shaped you as a person, what are your beliefs and would you say you are very family orientated.

 

If I was on a date with you and you asked me these questions I'd fake death.

[clia]

Let me give you an idea of the default way I go dating.

 

 

Me: So tell me about your childhood, where did you go to school, did you enjoy it and what made you get into ABC career

 

The latter three questions are fine, the first is too probing. I'm not going to get into a big discussion of my childhood with a guy on the first date.

 

Me: That's interesting do you find your job stimulating or is it like most jobs, has its days, this usually is accompanied by a smile from me in an attempt to lighten the question.

 

This is fine.

 

Me: Do you have any sibling, older or younger, married or not, I have one sister but I hardly see her.

 

Fine.

 

Me: What would you say has been your best life experience?

 

This feels like a job interview.

 

Me: What are you looking to accomplish in terms of life in the next few years, any outlandish plans (never use outlandish because 9/10 don't know what it means). I am looking to get settled in the various jobs I do and hopefully expand from that.

 

This also feels like a job interview.

 

Me: What would you say shaped you as a person, what are your beliefs and would you say you are very family orientated.

 

Job interview.

 

Me: Do you watch and series? You know I think ABC series is great have you seen it?

 

Fine.

 

To me those all seem reasonable questions to spin other questions and conversation off. However almost every time I do this I am greeted with little to no enthusiasm.

 

As noted above, some of the questions are fine, others are just too much for a first date. A first date is supposed to be fun and light. Getting into deep topics like your childhood, life goals, etc., is just too much, unless it somehow naturally flows from the conversation. (Asking the above questions out of the blue does not naturally flow from the conversation.) A lot of this stuff you can find out as the conversation naturally flows without having to fire these deep questions at her. That said, if the conversation goes exactly as you have posted above without any natural conversation flow, I can see why you aren't having much luck getting a second date. Overall, it's just boring and feels like a job interview/interrogation.

[basil67]

Me: So tell me about your childhood, where did you go to school, did you enjoy it and what made you get into ABC career

Me: That's interesting do you find your job stimulating or is it like most jobs, has its days, this usually is accompanied by a smile from me in an attempt to lighten the question.

Me: Do you have any sibling, older or younger, married or not, I have one sister but I hardly see her.

Me: What would you say has been your best life experience?

Me: What are you looking to accomplish in terms of life in the next few years, any outlandish plans (never use outlandish because 9/10 don't know what it means). I am looking to get settled in the various jobs I do and hopefully expand from that.

Me: What would you say shaped you as a person, what are your beliefs and would you say you are very family orientated.

Me: Do you watch and series? You know I think ABC series is great have you seen it?

 

Yup, I agree with faking death. Or faking an emergency phone call. This is beyond painful. So, so scripted.

 

Breaking it down further than Clia.

 

>>Me: So tell me about your childhood, where did you go to school, did you enjoy it and what made you get into ABC career<<

 

Too many questions at one time. How about "so where did you grow up?" and let her lead.

 

>>That's interesting do you find your job stimulating or is it like most jobs, has its days, this usually is accompanied by a smile from me in an attempt to lighten the question.<<

 

Too scripted. Try "So what do you do for a job?" If she needs further prompting, just say "do you enjoy it?"

 

>>Do you have any sibling, older or younger, married or not, I have one sister but I hardly see her."

 

Too many words. Just use "do you have any siblings?" You could ask her more about the siblings if she needs prompting. Don't end a question by talking about yourself.

Save the bit about your sister for when it's your turn to speak...and since you raise it, be prepared to elaborate on why you don't see her.

 

>>What would you say has been your best life experience?<<

 

You expect a well rounded person to be able to pin it down to a single one? An interesting person will have too many to count.

 

>>What are you looking to accomplish in terms of life in the next few years, any outlandish plans (never use outlandish because 9/10 don't know what it means). I am looking to get settled in the various jobs I do and hopefully expand from that.<<

 

Again, don't end a question by talking about yourself. As for the question, it's like a job interview and far too scripted. And if I found out that you didn't use the word 'outlandish' because you presumed I wouldn't know what it means, I would lose sooooo much respect for you. You'd have to be otherwise pretty awesome for this to not be a deal breaker.

 

>>What would you say shaped you as a person, what are your beliefs and would you say you are very family orientated.<<

 

Two different questions rolled in to one. Also wondering if the window in the bathroom is large enough for me to sneak out

 

>>Do you watch and series? You know I think ABC series is great have you seen it?<<

 

Again again, don't end a question by talking about yourself. "Have you watched any good series lately?" is quite sufficient.

Edited July 27, 2018 by basil67

[JuneL]

OP: Do you realize some of these very probing and very personal questions are quite inappropriate to ask an almost stranger on a first meet, unless they just flow naturally from your convo? I remember meeting up a friend’s friend the first time when he came to my area, and he would ask me such questions out of the blue. I wasn’t able to fake death, as the friend who introduced us was someone I really respected. I tried to be friendly and polite throughout the whole thing. I think he had a pretty good time and seemed to really like me. So after he went back, he would email me regularly. I replied briefly and with increasing delays, until he sent me a few emails in a row without any replies. So even if you meet someone who seems to have passed your interview, chances are she may still be creeped out...

[brigit87]

Too many questions at one time. How about "so where did you grow up?" and let her lead.

 

 

Again again, don't end a question by talking about yourself. "Have you watched any good series lately?" is quite sufficient.

 

This sums it up nicely.

 

OP no matter who your date is they're not going to be fascinated by you. You're not a astronaut or a surgeon you're just a guy in their 30's.

 

Plus, they don't want pressure to be interesting.

 

Your dating style has this subtext:

 

"I'm massively important and interesting. Are you?"

 

 

 

I hope this helps. If it doesn't then sorry.

[JuneL]

Sorry just can’t agree with the surgeon bit

 

This sums it up nicely.

 

OP no matter who your date is they're not going to be fascinated by you. You're not a astronaut or a surgeon you're just a guy in their 30's.

 

Plus, they don't want pressure to be interesting.

 

Your dating style has this subtext:

 

"I'm massively important and interesting. Are you?"

 

 

 

I hope this helps. If it doesn't then sorry.

[brigit87]

Sorry just can’t agree with the surgeon bit

 

 

 

You might be right.