Why can't people be liked for who they are

[Beachead]

Perhaps someone who is mentally unstable can change in a finger snap. I've had the displeasure to know a few.But someone who is grounded, in touch with their feeling and who doesn't have major personality flaws or psychology disorders? They're not going to just "snap", or at least the odds are so low you can pretty much plan your life around them being there. Unless problems start to arise in the relationship- and if you are aware and in touch with what's going on and you take care of your partner's needs you'll won't be caught off guard.

 

It's not specific to just unstable people. Planning your life with a person these days is risky for a lot of reasons. Reasons that can make people decide well into a once healthy relationship that it's not for them anymore. Those reasons/changes can be out of our control. Could be for reasons that have more to do with them than us. No matter how great of a partner we try to be, it won't be enough for them in these kinds of cases.

 

Maybe to an outsider looking at our relationship or when we are evaluating a past relationship, red flags/warning signs can be obvious. But when we are in it however, those warning signs and red flags are not always obvious because we are in love, attached and committed to a future with them. So, we see the good and choose to work and solve problems and embrace the good instead of the opposite.

 

Not everything is foreseeable, mapped out, and A-->B. There is a lot of variability with people. We just don't know who we're dealing with until we know.

 

That is why in my opinion, the counter to this is to go into a relationship with everything else in our life settled. Materials, attitude etc. That is our emotional insurance. We should be able to smile on our own before we consider smiling with someone else. Having multiple avenues of joy and peace that is irrespective of this person and being comfortable alone will likely keep us balanced for the uncertainty and variability in a relationship. People like calm, cool, collected people.

 

- Beach

Edited July 28, 2018 by Beachead

[Beachead]

Perhaps Beach is right.

 

In what way OP?

Edited July 29, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[ZA Dater]

Of course you need to ask questions. Just don't ask three in the same sentence and end the sentence by talking about yourself. Just as the book woman was asking questions to get to know you.

 

Out of curiosity, if a woman's interests aren't shared by you, do you ask about those interests anyway or simply not mention them?

 

 

Yes in order to keep the conversation going.

[ZA Dater]

So the ones you say you met and liked but messed up the dates..

Give us the script - in detail.

What happened - in detail.

 

 

 

I cant remember the exact script they happened over a 10 year period, every few years or so there was a good date or I met someone I did like. Mostly as Normal Person would say they had a high value so could pretty much pick and choose whoever they wanted.

 

 

Or I simply wasn't what they wanted or I was comfortable to kiss them, mostly I feel I could have said different things, done different things and the outcome could have been different.

 

 

Mostly it was a case of me liking them more than they liked me. Ultimately I am just thinking what I want is just impossible and maybe Beach has a point, simply just focus on something else.

[GemmaUK]

I cant remember the exact script they happened over a 10 year period, every few years or so there was a good date or I met someone I did like. Mostly as Normal Person would say they had a high value so could pretty much pick and choose whoever they wanted.

 

 

Or I simply wasn't what they wanted or I was comfortable to kiss them, mostly I feel I could have said different things, done different things and the outcome could have been different.

 

 

Mostly it was a case of me liking them more than they liked me. Ultimately I am just thinking what I want is just impossible and maybe Beach has a point, simply just focus on something else.

 

Heck! Even I can remember my first meet and first date with the guy I was with for 14 years - I met him when I was 22, I'm now 49.

Do you have memory problems too ZA?

 

What you want isn't impossible - even with your stringent stubborn expectations but you give so few people any tolerance of time, patience or consideration.

 

Those questions were worse than any date I have even been on - Basil is right - don't ask three 'work inspired' (not related to work but they are interview questions) questions in one sentence. No wonder you get blank looks! FFS! Lol!

 

If you had any noddle about you you would look inward.

Going on dates and women not speaking - at all - which is what you claim happens over and over (just recently because you change your story as it suits you) and over is a REALLY bad sign.

So if what you are saying is true then yeah, you won't date and K will be your 'in a relationship' 'date' until she gets married and moves on which will probably happen in the next 3-5 years.

 

You are not in a general age group where memory loss is common so I find it very difficult to believe there are conversations and situations on dates where you liked them that you cannot recall.

[Imajerk17]

I am not going to back down on the assertion that ladies need to put in some effort too.

 

 

No I will do what is likely to net some sort of reward and doing things for the sake of doing them isn't one of those things I am likely to do.

 

 

Sure the market values me at zero. I have two options.

 

 

: don't give a f

: pander to the market

 

The former is more likely than the latter. What do I get out pander, no certainty that's for sure. I can go on dates pretend to be dense I suppose, pretend I like booze, clubs and sports. Not sure how well that pretend will go. Pretend to have no opinion on anything.

 

 

Reality is I don't really go out so its all mute anyway.

 

I will say something else on this.

 

As I have said on here before plenty of times, I can relate to being socially awkward as I was that way growing up. When I went on dates from online many of them went nowhere.

 

The big difference between us was that used my power of being good at analyzing things and I made a point of going back over what happened during my dates and interactions. I was wiling to learn from my bad dates--even the dates where I knew from the beginning it wasn't a match, in a way that you do not seem to be willing. Maybe I said something that I thought was a compliment but she reasonably could take it as an insult. Maybe this gesture I tend to do comes across as stilted and I should do something else. Maybe this compliment or that line came across cheesy or insincere, so I should stop saying stuff like that. My results over time got much better and better.

 

Whether this makes me a panderer, well I know in my heart I am a confident smooth at ease person, even if I couldn't manifest it at the time. So why not be that person. Why not get rid of all those mannerisms that isn't serving me.

 

Isn't this how most guys date though. They make their mistakes but they learn from them and then they do better next time. It is your seeming unwillingness to do so/closedmindedness that is holding you back. You really would do so much better if you became more open-minded.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Imajerk17

[basil67]

Yes in order to keep the conversation going.

 

Getting to know them better isn't part of the equation for you?

[MidwestUSA]

I am not going to back down on the assertion that ladies need to put in some effort too.

 

 

No I will do what is likely to net some sort of reward and doing things for the sake of doing them isn't one of those things I am likely to do.

 

 

Sure the market values me at zero. I have two options.

 

 

: don't give a f

: pander to the market

 

 

The former is more likely than the latter. What do I get out pander, no certainty that's for sure. I can go on dates pretend to be dense I suppose, pretend I like booze, clubs and sports. Not sure how well that pretend will go. Pretend to have no opinion on anything.

 

 

Reality is I don't really go out so its all mute anyway.

 

 

A guy who believes nine out of ten people don't know the meaning of the word outlandish should know the difference between 'mute' and 'moot'.

 

Honestly, you come across as too big for your britches. And that's the mild version of my opinion.

[GemmaUK]

I will say something else on this.

 

As I have said on here before plenty of times, I can relate to being socially awkward as I was that way growing up. When I went on dates from online many of them went nowhere.

 

The big difference between us was that used my power of being good at analyzing things and I made a point of going back over what happened during my dates and interactions. I was wiling to learn from my bad dates--even the dates where I knew from the beginning it wasn't a match, in a way that you do not seem to be willing. Maybe I said something that I thought was a compliment but she reasonably could take it as an insult. Maybe this gesture I tend to do comes across as stilted and I should do something else. Maybe this compliment or that line came across cheesy or insincere, so I should stop saying stuff like that. My results over time got much better and better.

 

Whether this makes me a panderer, well I know in my heart I am a confident smooth at ease person, even if I couldn't manifest it at the time. So why not be that person. Why not get rid of all those mannerisms that isn't serving me.

 

Isn't this how most guys date though. They make their mistakes but they learn from them and then they do better next time. It is your seeming unwillingness to do so/closedmindedness that is holding you back. You really would do so much better if you became more open-minded.

 

Nailed it like Nomm did too in the last post Enigma quoted.

 

This is plain old common sense. I'm not sure common sense is something that can be learned though, especially under such vehement protest.

[brigit87]

A guy who believes nine out of ten people don't know the meaning of the word outlandish should know the difference between 'mute' and 'moot'.

 

Honestly, you come across as too big for your britches. And that's the mild version of my opinion.

 

At this point I don't think OP want's advice.

 

Attention maybe.

[BaileyB]

I am not going to back down on the assertion that ladies need to put in some effort too.

 

Let's be honest here, I have a feeling that any woman who goes on a date with you probably feels like she is putting in a lot of effort...

 

I've been on dates with guys like you who are very rigid in your thinking and stuck in your own experience... It dulls the interest and makes me tune out of the conversation when it is very obvious that there is no connection with a man. In much the same way you feel toward the women, they are likely feeling the same thing.

 

You really would find your world would open up if you developed a little more flexibility in your thinking and were a little more open minded.

Edited July 29, 2018 by BaileyB

[Beachead]

What helped me when I was dating was picking a fun activity that the both of us could do. The good times will lighten the mood and you guys can converse bout the activity itself and use it as a buffer when things get a bit awkward or quiet. I always found myself to loosen up with something like this. Following this, we'd go and grab some street food or something informal. It warms me up and kills the nerves and gets my head working for conversation. It's a good technique to use on the first 2 dates I've found.

 

I typically waited a few days to do something more formal like dinner because in the beginning, when we didn't know eachother, it could risk feeling like rigid like a job interview. Forces conversation. If both people are nervous or what not, there's no buffer to fill the awkwardness. The silence is like death.

 

*In conversation, I avoided politics and religion and painful subjects as well unless it naturally came up. All other topics are open for conversation depending on the situation. It's a feeling out process that you get better at with practice.

 

- Beach

Edited July 29, 2018 by Beachead

[ZA Dater]

Heck! Even I can remember my first meet and first date with the guy I was with for 14 years - I met him when I was 22, I'm now 49.

Do you have memory problems too ZA?

 

What you want isn't impossible - even with your stringent stubborn expectations but you give so few people any tolerance of time, patience or consideration.

 

Those questions were worse than any date I have even been on - Basil is right - don't ask three 'work inspired' (not related to work but they are interview questions) questions in one sentence. No wonder you get blank looks! FFS! Lol!

 

If you had any noddle about you you would look inward.

Going on dates and women not speaking - at all - which is what you claim happens over and over (just recently because you change your story as it suits you) and over is a REALLY bad sign.

So if what you are saying is true then yeah, you won't date and K will be your 'in a relationship' 'date' until she gets married and moves on which will probably happen in the next 3-5 years.

 

You are not in a general age group where memory loss is common so I find it very difficult to believe there are conversations and situations on dates where you liked them that you cannot recall.

 

 

Probably because I when it comes to dating I try and remember as little as possible of bad dates and by that I include one which were ok but the outcome wasn't.

 

 

I have outlined my usual style, sure there were examples like H where the conversation went in all sort of interesting places like travel and in the case of the Dr from Colorado the plight of terminally ill kids, those were two decent dates. There was one au pair I got on well enough for her to apparently friend zone me, though what this actually meant was never speaking to me again.

 

 

So I will enjoy that while it lasts, its a heck of a lot better than any other prospects I have....I'll always regret not being better though. I don't regret many badly but for as long as I walk this planet I will regret that.

[ZA Dater]

Let's be honest here, I have a feeling that any woman who goes on a date with you probably feels like she is putting in a lot of effort...

 

I've been on dates with guys like you who are very rigid in your thinking and stuck in your own experience... It dulls the interest and makes me tune out of the conversation when it is very obvious that there is no connection with a man. In much the same way you feel toward the women, they are likely feeling the same thing.

 

You really would find your world would open up if you developed a little more flexibility in your thinking and were a little more open minded.

 

 

 

Which means what exactly? My interpretation of this is as follows

 

 

1: Do things I don't enjoy

2: Pretend to like people I don't

 

 

I once went on a date with a lady who ended up being a stripper and she brought her friend along, neither of them were sober from the start. I suppose the fact that date outcome was my doing too?

 

 

Actually this thread is being very helpful, simply pointing out how inherently unsuitable for dating I am. Nothing I seem to do or believe here meets the approval.

 

 

You are right with the first part of your post BUT there have been perhaps three occasions where it did work so from time to time I can get things to work with the right sort of person. Having said that even they didn't like me enough.

[ZA Dater]

I will say something else on this.

 

As I have said on here before plenty of times, I can relate to being socially awkward as I was that way growing up. When I went on dates from online many of them went nowhere.

 

The big difference between us was that used my power of being good at analyzing things and I made a point of going back over what happened during my dates and interactions. I was wiling to learn from my bad dates--even the dates where I knew from the beginning it wasn't a match, in a way that you do not seem to be willing. Maybe I said something that I thought was a compliment but she reasonably could take it as an insult. Maybe this gesture I tend to do comes across as stilted and I should do something else. Maybe this compliment or that line came across cheesy or insincere, so I should stop saying stuff like that. My results over time got much better and better.

 

Whether this makes me a panderer, well I know in my heart I am a confident smooth at ease person, even if I couldn't manifest it at the time. So why not be that person. Why not get rid of all those mannerisms that isn't serving me.

 

Isn't this how most guys date though. They make their mistakes but they learn from them and then they do better next time. It is your seeming unwillingness to do so/closedmindedness that is holding you back. You really would do so much better if you became more open-minded.

 

 

 

Same question I directed Bailey....what is this?

 

 

Nothing about is the same as everyone else. I don't see guys hold doors open for ladies, I do that. I don't see guys offer to take their coats, I do that.

 

 

I have never ever been about being like everyone else, I made a conscious decision not to be, stupidly as it turned out. However there are people who appreciate me as friend because I don't conform. I was once asked "would you drink if it would make dating easier for you" you can guess my answer.

 

 

Yes I don't get the dates but my choice is at least respected by some.

 

 

Your method is good and well if you find people you like easily, I don't so when I do I might as well be carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. I do what I think is right and as we have seen here, clearly it isn't.

 

 

I have some people around me who care, yes none will date me but they add value to my life and I am starting to question if dating would add any significant value at all. Yes if it was someone I really liked but if I had to convince myself to like them...

 

 

My belief is my best chance came 3 years ago and I messed it up. I have to live with that. I put on a face each and everyday of contentedness but its not really true, I walk around life alone, I see that person and everything goes from being alone to happy, it probably helps she knows the same story all of you do.

 

 

For years I hid the fact I battled at dating, not anymore I wear it on my arm.

[Blanco]

Actually this thread is being very helpful, simply pointing out how inherently unsuitable for dating I am. Nothing I seem to do or believe here meets the approval.

 

Cool, so we can close up this thread, right?

[BaileyB]

Cool, so we can close up this thread, right?

 

Sounds like a plan... because I can't manage the energy to explain yet again how being flexible and open minded does not mean that OP has to do things he doesn't enjoy or like people that he doesn't like...

[Imajerk17]

Same question I directed Bailey....what is this?

 

 

Nothing about is the same as everyone else. I don't see guys hold doors open for ladies, I do that. I don't see guys offer to take their coats, I do that.

 

That is cool of you. But it hardly has much to do with whether there is a connection between you and the woman you are on a date with. Or rather, it won't make up for the lack of connection between you and the woman in the rest of your interaction. If there is no connection the woman probably even would rather open her own damn door.

 

We have already discussed examples where you were the one who shut down the connection between you and your date in the meanwhile. The woman who asked you of the novel that you are writing was one example. The list of questions you ask your dates was another. Surely we could give you more examples and specific suggestions that you could use going forward if we knew more about the details of your date. But for all your going on and on and on, you are not forthcoming with these details.

 

 

I have never ever been about being like everyone else, I made a conscious decision not to be, stupidly as it turned out. However there are people who appreciate me as friend because I don't conform. I was once asked "would you drink if it would make dating easier for you" you can guess my answer.

 

Yes I don't get the dates but my choice is at least respected by some.

 

Sorry ZA, no badge of honor for 'at least being true to yourself' or 'not being like all those other guys' or something like that. You should talk to people who have their own style and do quite well in dating. I am a huge nerd and I do quite ok for myself thankyouverymuch.

 

There surely are places for you to meet women who don't drink, or for you to take your abstinence from alcohol out of the equation. Meanwhile don't you drink when you are with K?

 

 

Your method is good and well if you find people you like easily, I don't so when I do I might as well be carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. I do what I think is right and as we have seen here, clearly it isn't.

 

....

 

Perspective. Maybe you should talk to people who are going through some serious serious hardships before you really believe that you are "carrying the weight of the world" on your shoulders.

 

There are people your age and older who are going through a nasty divorce where their spouse left them for someone else, and they have kids to take care of. Yet they keep getting up each day. You are still young. You are still unencumbered. You can still turn this around. BUT you need to stop with the self-pity.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Imajerk17

[brigit87]

It's called, make the most of things. You are going into a first date expecting these women to wow you with their wit and charm, but the only thing you are bringing to the table is an awkward meet where you ask them a bunch of uncomfortable questions. Like I and others have said to you numerous times, the first date needs to be lighthearted and fun. You turn it into a job interview.

 

 

 

Yes, that is most certainly your fault. While those ladies might not be the best candidates for a relationship, there are few scenarios in the world that will likely lead to more fun than a night spent hanging out with a couple drunk strippers. Those girls know how to have a good time.

 

I'm not sure why OP is putting this much thought into the dates anyway. It sounds emotionally exhausting.

 

On a side note: if a girl brings a friend along with her on a date it's a terrible sign. It usually means she doesn't want to date the guy but wants to hang with her friend and not worry about the bill. It's a yucky thing girls do sometimes. So next time it happens try to end the date quickly.

[ZA Dater]

That is cool of you. But it hardly has much to do with whether there is a connection between you and the woman you are on a date with. Or rather, it won't make up for the lack of connection between you and the woman in the rest of your interaction. If there is no connection the woman probably even would rather open her own damn door.

 

We have already discussed examples where you were the one who shut down the connection between you and your date in the meanwhile. The woman who asked you of the novel that you are writing was one example. The list of questions you ask your dates was another. Surely we could give you more examples and specific suggestions that you could use going forward if we knew more about the details of your date. But for all your going on and on and on, you are not forthcoming with these details.

 

 

 

 

Sorry ZA, no badge of honor for 'at least being true to yourself' or 'not being like all those other guys' or something like that. You should talk to people who have their own style and do quite well in dating. I am a huge nerd and I do quite ok for myself thankyouverymuch.

 

There surely are places for you to meet women who don't drink, or for you to take your abstinence from alcohol out of the equation. Meanwhile don't you drink when you are with K?

 

 

 

 

Perspective. Maybe you should talk to people who are going through some serious serious hardships before you really believe that you are "carrying the weight of the world" on your shoulders.

 

There are people your age and older who are going through a nasty divorce where their spouse left them for someone else, and they have kids to take care of. Yet they keep getting up each day. You are still young. You are still unencumbered. You can still turn this around. BUT you need to stop with the self-pity.

 

 

Not really, unfortunately in society here drinking is integral to socialising.

 

 

Everyone is asking why I shut down that conversation: I didn't like the manner of the person. Very simply she would have not worked at all. There was very little sophistication and she spoke appallingly. Both of which are deal killers, she could have looked like Kate Upton and it would still have been a deal killer.

 

 

"Own style who do well in dating", I'll be the first to admit I don't really know these people. I have seen people with far more to offer than me really struggle. What I have noticed is sure you can go to festivals and that's a good place to meet people if you like festivals. You can go to markets but its impossible to meet anyone there as they are all in groups.

 

 

To give you an idea what I mean, I once started talking to someone in a supermarket and they just looked at me as if I was mad, then I looked around at how many people were randomly talking and it was very few indeed.

 

 

I drank that one time with K because it was a long standing bet/dare we had. Probably I just felt motivated to "yeah I can" rather than "no I wont".

 

 

I suppose there is the thing, when she is around I actually want to step out of the comfort zone, with some random Tinder date I don't know from a bar of soap, not so much. There is sufficient motivation to try and put a better foot forward though reading the comments here I am starting to doubt whether I do actually do that or just pass awkward remarks.

 

 

Most of the time there is zero motivation to actually bother. They are going to reject me anyway so why even try.

 

 

All I can do is go out an try be the best me, if that's not good enough then oh well, if nobody notices or finds anything about me they like, then again oh well. If the best I can find isn't what I want, then again oh well I couldn't care less because on the evidence of this thread and its comments I don't have any chance anyway even I did find someone single who wows me.

[ZA Dater]

It's called, make the most of things. You are going into a first date expecting these women to wow you with their wit and charm, but the only thing you are bringing to the table is an awkward meet where you ask them a bunch of uncomfortable questions. Like I and others have said to you numerous times, the first date needs to be lighthearted and fun. You turn it into a job interview.

 

 

 

Yes, that is most certainly your fault. While those ladies might not be the best candidates for a relationship, there are few scenarios in the world that will likely lead to more fun than a night spent hanging out with a couple drunk strippers. Those girls know how to have a good time.

 

 

I didn't find them fun at all I just found them drunk and silly. Oh and I don't do light hearted and fun ever.

[GemmaUK]

I don't do light hearted and fun ever.

 

 

Which is what dating is.

He could be George Clooney but if he's not light hearted and fun first time I meet him then I won't be meeting him for a date

[BaileyB]

Which is what dating is.

He could be George Clooney but if he's not light hearted and fun first time I meet him then I won't be meeting him for a date

 

Yup!

 

Who wants to date someone who is not fun to be around... Not me.

[William]

I'm going to give this thread a break and do a quick review since moderation's last directive. For those who offered sincere and respectful advice and commentary, thank you.

 

Edited to update that, since the thread starter took another thread off-topic to continue the the discussion which prompted the close of this thread, they're now on moderation so we'll close their discussions to replies for now.

Edited August 15, 2018 by William
Update