Why can't people be liked for who they are

[ZA Dater]

If you want a woman to open up to you and talk about things that actually matter, you need to build a rapport with her first. Make her comfortable enough with you that she will share things. You can't jump into a first date with women you met online, put a cup of coffee in front of them, and expect to be wowed by her wit and charm. Show a girl a good time for a few dates and she will start to open up without a fight.

 

They aren't asking about you because they don't care about you. Make them care. You will do this if you can follow my advice.

 

 

 

Online dating isn't gonna work magic for you. If ladies are dismissing you in person, they won't suddenly like you if they met you online first. You need to make dramatic improvements in your social skills, then you will have more success.

 

 

 

Confidence is beyond easy to fake. I have been faking it for years. I am not confident that every girl I meet is gonna be interested. I know that based on the odds alone, any given woman likely will not be interested. I just don't care. They tend to confuse my indifference as confidence.

 

 

 

Dating isn't meant to feel like a business. It should be fun. Women especially are looking for fun when they date. Learn to be fun and you'll have more success.

 

 

You'll know because they will act differently than what you are used to.

 

 

Its very difficult to built a rapport with people you have nothing in common with. Harder still when you speak to them they look at you blankly.

 

 

Actually I do expect to be wowed, this is selling you are supposed to be the best version of yourself and if this apparent best version doesn't wow me the normal version certainly isn't, I am using the exact same thing I was once told by a lady. I expect there to be something about them which would make me want to see them again. I simply refuse to subscribe to this mantra I must give them date after date yet I can be thrown away like trash after one date, if I am expected to extent the date after date courtesy then I expect it to be reciprocated but we know I am talking rubbish here because the "rules of dating" don't work like that.

 

 

I am suppose to care about them automatically? I am not being argumentative here but again is one just supposed to accept a clear double standard?

 

 

We are back to fun when we date, after the last discussion I went and read about this, I went and looked at meet up again to try and determine what exactly this fun is and what I worked out is fun is what the other person likes doing. I am quite happy to deviate from coffee dates but hiking dates don't work, dinner dates don't either, I am not going to ever bring a date to an event I arrange unless I am 100% sure the person will fit in and there have been none who would, I am not taking some random person on holiday, I don't enjoy watching sports events, movies I have done before and was a very poor idea, ice cream I did once and was ok but only because she was actually interesting. I did the bar thing and the club thing both of those were such a complete disaster because I don't drink.

What does that leave me with?

 

 

Having said all that sometimes I do get it to work, very, very rarely but sometimes it does but again these people aren't single so it doesn't count. Honestly I find I have more "fun" with people who aren't single than these random sort of dates. Probably because they have something to add to my life whereas these random people don't. By this I mean the model who helped me work on being more confident, there was no romantic angle at all but it was nice to spend time with her and interact.

 

 

One of the things I am observing now is a friend of mine who is back dating and we sometimes go out, he is a catch in all respects and does the whole drink, club thing and just seeing how he interacts is interesting, a lot of it is ostensibly false BUT it seems to work very well. He has the charm and wit and they lap it all up, sometimes I will get brought into the conversation but its usually "shame he tries to date but gets rejected" or its "how is tinder"

[GemmaUK]

If you want a woman to open up to you and talk about things that actually matter, you need to build a rapport with her first. Make her comfortable enough with you that she will share things. You can't jump into a first date with women you met online, put a cup of coffee in front of them, and expect to be wowed by her wit and charm. Show a girl a good time for a few dates and she will start to open up without a fight.

 

They aren't asking about you because they don't care about you. Make them care. You will do this if you can follow my advice.

 

 

 

Online dating isn't gonna work magic for you. If ladies are dismissing you in person, they won't suddenly like you if they met you online first. You need to make dramatic improvements in your social skills, then you will have more success.

 

 

 

Confidence is beyond easy to fake. I have been faking it for years. I am not confident that every girl I meet is gonna be interested. I know that based on the odds alone, any given woman likely will not be interested. I just don't care. They tend to confuse my indifference as confidence.

 

 

 

Dating isn't meant to feel like a business. It should be fun. Women especially are looking for fun when they date. Learn to be fun and you'll have more success.

 

 

 

You'll know because they will act differently than what you are used to.

 

I completely agree 100%

Every point well said!

[ZA Dater]

You run a car club, no? Why don’t you start a meetup group or a club devoted to intellectual conversations with a unique topic of your choice each week? Or you can run a book club to discuss topics that excite you. Be creative

 

 

 

This post made me look at meetup again. Searched looking for anything different and no real surprise hiking and church are very popular groups. I don't know should I really do something I don't like to try and meet someone? I did the meetup thing before but the whole group seemed incredibly contrived to me but I accept its probably the only way people who don't have lot of friends get to meet anyone so I see its value.

 

 

Here in SA is joins OLD as a fairly taboo topic. I honestly thing the best chance one has to date are friends of friends, time and time again I gave seen this work to some degree. If I had to list one of the biggest mistakes I made it was not making more friends at school and when I was studying.

[GemmaUK]

Something I've noticed many a time in your posts and it's happened in your reply to myself and Enigma too is you've totally misinterpreted things we've said.

 

Very quick example: My point to you was about change 'if you don't change then your history will be your future' but you have taken out of that relationship history - which is not what I meant at all.

[ZA Dater]

I completely agree 100%

Every point well said!

 

 

 

Differently I haven't ever seen. I suppose you can read that in two way.

 

 

The irony is I behave differently around people I like. Whether they actually notice is a mute point. I have always said this, the people I like bring out who I am, the rest, I cant really be bothered.

 

 

What I do try and do it talk to random people where possible.

[ZA Dater]

Early on in dating, let the girl do most of the talking. Don't ask a lot of questions and don't worry about talking about yourself. Focus on being lighthearted, witty, and funny. While letting her talk, show interest, and just toss in a witty comment here and there.

 

 

 

Your expectations are unreasonble. That is just the beginning. On the first few dates, most normal people are gonna be nervous. They're meeting someone new and being judged, and in your case, judged harshly. Stop looking for someone to wow you. Look for someone you can have fun with. I assume you know how to have fun aside from those conversations you are always looking for? Like I said before, your goal is to get her to open up to you. As she does, you will slowly get to know her as a person. As you learn who she is as a person, that is when you decide whether or not she wows you. No one is getting that chance with you.

 

 

 

This is just BS negativety here. You know who likes negative guys? No one. So, stop.

 

Dating is about having fun and getting to know someone on a romantic level. It's about you having a free Friday night, and you think it would be nice to hang out with some cute girl you have in mind. So, you take her out and show her a good time. That's it. I cannot stress this enough. Dating is supposed to be fun. If you aren't having fun, you are doing it wrong, period.

 

 

What double standard? And if there is, who cares? Do you want to cry about the perceived injustices of the dating world, or do you want to make the most of life and try to enjoy it? Your choice.

 

If you do not care about a woman you are out with, then why are you out with her, anyway?

 

 

 

This all depends on what you have in your area for entertainment. I have no idea what things are like where you live. I am fortunate enough to live in a resort town so there is a ton of things to get into here. You want to look for activity related things for dates though. I really like mini-golf. It's cheap, fun, and you can get slightly competitive with it.

 

 

 

If he is saying those things about you, he is putting you down in front of the ladies on purpose so they ignore you and go for him. Learn to do what he does, but don't try to get dates when you are with him.

 

 

I'll remember that next time and speak the bare minimum, though I suspect if I did this there would be no conversation at all. Its incredibly frustrating trying to get people to speak.

 

 

Unfortunately light hearted, witty and funny are not characteristics which describe me no matter how hard I try. My humour is more of the subtle dry type. I can sometimes in isolation pull that off but is very rare and more banter like. I can absolutely do banter BUT the person needs to be quite sharp to get me, those who get me do laugh, those who do look at me blankly. Unfortunately there is more of the latter than the former.

 

 

 

I primarily look for someone who might be compatible with me and there might be some common interests. Fun, again its so subjective, for me fun is just enjoying the company of someone being able to actually share things with them, do things with them but I cannot do any of that if I don't connect with them, if I don't have some kind of want to spend time with them I cannot force myself to spend time with them.

 

 

The "friends" I have we all sort of basically have similar interests/do similar work/are connected via work in some sort of way.

 

 

No, his tactic is equally flawed he is trying to get me the apparent sympathy date.

 

 

Again I cant argue with what you say, it makes perfect sense on paper I just find it impossible to do in reality. Whether its me only, a combination of me and the completely unsuitable people who find me attractive, or the fact I never really get to date anyone I find attractive enough to make me want to put in the effort I don't know.

 

 

The reality is I don't put in the effort if I don't find the person attractive or don't see any reasonable prospects with them. Where the people I like, I have no idea but suffice to say it seems all of them are taken.

[Chilli]

l still have no clue why you or anyone here even go out with people you have nothing in common with and no interest.

So what the good ones are taken , but not all or that would make you a lemon too, right. So you find the few, forget the rest. But that takes time and some luck, but while your out wasting your time on people you aren't even interested in she sneaks by and you miss her, this is how it works and why so many end up chasing their tail , ha , and saying they aren't wasting their time, next, but that's actually what they are doing in the long run. No pain no glory.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Chilli

[ZA Dater]

l still have no clue why you or anyone here even go out with people you have nothing in common with and no interest.

So what the good ones are taken , but not all or that would make you a lemon too, right. So you find the few, forget the rest. But that takes time and some luck, but while your out wasting your time on people you aren't even interested in she sneaks by and you miss her, this is how it works and why so many end up chasing their tail , ha , and saying they aren't wasting their time, next, but that's actually what they are doing in the long run. No pain no glory.

 

 

 

I probably am a lemon based on my success rate!

[JuneL]

This post made me look at meetup again. Searched looking for anything different and no real surprise hiking and church are very popular groups. I don't know should I really do something I don't like to try and meet someone? I did the meetup thing before but the whole group seemed incredibly contrived to me but I accept its probably the only way people who don't have lot of friends get to meet anyone so I see its value.

 

 

Here in SA is joins OLD as a fairly taboo topic. I honestly thing the best chance one has to date are friends of friends, time and time again I gave seen this work to some degree. If I had to list one of the biggest mistakes I made it was not making more friends at school and when I was studying.

 

What’s stopping you from starting your own group? In the States, there’re indeed groups devoted to intellectual conversations.

[JuneL]

Would you date a female version of yourself, someone who likes certain deeper specific conversation topics, is socially awkward, hasn’t had much experience with dating, doesn’t care about conversation topics that already interest her?

[ZA Dater]

Would you date a female version of yourself, someone who likes certain deeper specific conversation topics, is socially awkward, hasn’t had much experience with dating, doesn’t care about conversation topics that already interest her?

 

 

 

No I wouldn't.

[ZA Dater]

What’s stopping you from starting your own group? In the States, there’re indeed groups devoted to intellectual conversations.

 

 

 

I neither have the time nor the inclination and its difficult to see any upside. Over the last few months I have tried meeting different people but I just don't fit in even if there are some shared interests.

 

 

I did meet a student I got along with quite well but no surprise she wasn't single.

 

 

Clearly I come off well enough to work in the business environment, perhaps I should just stay in that environment permanently.

[Imajerk17]

I neither have the time nor the inclination and its difficult to see any upside. Over the last few months I have tried meeting different people but I just don't fit in even if there are some shared interests.

 

 

I did meet a student I got along with quite well but no surprise she wasn't single.

 

 

Clearly I come off well enough to work in the business environment, perhaps I should just stay in that environment permanently.

 

ZA, what *are* you willing to do to improve your dating life then?

 

--You were suggested investing in a dating coach, someone who could view your real-life mannerisms and how to improve. That seems to be out.

 

--You were suggested screening for your dates better than you have been, looking for dates in other places besides Tinder--as there seems to be a fundamental incompatibility between you and your dates. That seems to be out too.

 

--You were suggested hiking groups, which even if you are ambivalent on hiking, should be great for you. Surely walking in nature outside is preferable to you than going to a pub (as you hardly drink), and you are likely given several meetings with someone for your humour to grow on them. [You could also get to observe how the more socially successful men interact with others which also would help.] That seems to be out too.

 

--Finally, JuneL suggested forming your own Meetup group. That also seems to be out.

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Imajerk17

[JuneL]

I neither have the time nor the inclination and its difficult to see any upside. Over the last few months I have tried meeting different people but I just don't fit in even if there are some shared interests.

 

 

I did meet a student I got along with quite well but no surprise she wasn't single.

 

 

Clearly I come off well enough to work in the business environment, perhaps I should just stay in that environment permanently.

 

The good thing about starting your group is that you’re automatically the leader, which is an attractive trait. Plus, you’re by definition required to welcome and greet and interact with the members.

[JuneL]

I wasn’t trying to be mean when I asked you why you wanted to have a gf and asked you about your sexual desires. Your posts made me wonder if you want to have a gf simply because it’s what guys have at your age.

[GemmaUK]

No I wouldn't.

 

Why not?

This would be your equal - yes?

So, why would you not date a woman like yourself?

[GemmaUK]

Differently I haven't ever seen. I suppose you can read that in two way.

 

 

The irony is I behave differently around people I like. Whether they actually notice is a mute point. I have always said this, the people I like bring out who I am, the rest, I cant really be bothered.

 

 

What I do try and do it talk to random people where possible.

 

I 'think you were responding to my other post here where I mentioned you mis-understand posts a lot or misinterpret them??

But you talk apples to oranges..

I used a phrase - it wasn't to be taken differently or be discussed.

It was a statement.

Basically, if you don't 'do' something to change then you'll be single always.

 

 

PS. i hope posting again doesn't mean you miss my last post - you seem to do that a lot also.

Communication is an issue - even written word.

It's plain to see.

I'm not sure how to help with written word except suggesting absorb, not skim read.

This must be an issue in business for you surely - unless you only skim read on LS.

[JuneL]

I 'think you were responding to my other post here where I mentioned you mis-understand posts a lot or misinterpret them??

But you talk apples to oranges..

I used a phrase - it wasn't to be taken differently or be discussed.

It was a statement.

Basically, if you don't 'do' something to change then you'll be single always.

 

 

PS. i hope posting again doesn't mean you miss my last post - you seem to do that a lot also.

Communication is an issue - even written word.

It's plain to see.

I'm not sure how to help with written word except suggesting absorb, not skim read.

This must be an issue in business for you surely - unless you only skim read on LS.

 

There are also lots inconsistencies in his replies.

[ZA Dater]

ZA, what *are* you willing to do to improve your dating life then?

 

--You were suggested investing in a dating coach, someone who could view your real-life mannerisms and how to improve. That seems to be out.

 

--You were suggested screening for your dates better than you have been, looking for dates in other places besides Tinder--as there seems to be a fundamental incompatibility between you and your dates. That seems to be out too.

 

--You were suggested hiking groups, which even if you are ambivalent on hiking, should be great for you. Surely walking in nature outside is preferable to you than going to a pub (as you hardly drink), and you are likely given several meetings with someone for your humour to grow on them. [You could also get to observe how the more socially successful men interact with others which also would help.] That seems to be out too.

 

--Finally, JuneL suggested forming your own Meetup group. That also seems to be out.

 

 

 

 

What I am trying to do more of is be me and project them rather being the somewhat quiet guy in the corner.

[GemmaUK]

There are also lots inconsistencies in his replies.

 

I know but it is so difficult to get the message across so I've done it myself and have seen others also move on to the next thing as ZA often misunderstands, misses questions an goes on tangents.

To describe what you 'mean' takes a lot of effort to be clear enough for ZA and many here have spent a lot of time already in genuine help, advice and posts. It's hard work when you need to re-explain things.

As you say, inconsistencies, of which there are heaps are exhausting to track.

[ZA Dater]

Why not?

This would be your equal - yes?

So, why would you not date a woman like yourself?

 

 

 

Because there would be no challenge in that. Someone put it best, if you are an account you should try to be an architect.

 

 

The point being I don't want someone like me, in some respect I want the opposite, someone outgoing would be nice for example. I am capable of being that but every time I do I get these odd looks and yes I don't fit into the same usual social dynamic so its easier to just keep quiet.

 

 

Ironically I have dating to thank for that because every time I go out its "this girl this, that date, so and so is stunning" I don't have anything to contribute to that. I had a friend very similar to me, she eventually found a great bf but she basically said I am super knowledgeable but its useless knowledge which isn't really much good.

[ZA Dater]

Something I've noticed many a time in your posts and it's happened in your reply to myself and Enigma too is you've totally misinterpreted things we've said.

 

Very quick example: My point to you was about change 'if you don't change then your history will be your future' but you have taken out of that relationship history - which is not what I meant at all.

 

 

You missed my point, its exactly this history which is a fundamental problem, I cannot explain not having dates at 34, its that history people seem to put so much important on and in my case it doesn't exist.

 

 

I don't know what to change to and I don't think I will ever get that. In my mind I spend most of each day trying to be a good person to those around me and adding value to those around me. There must be some merit because the good in this is seen by others.

 

 

But apparently this isn't any help when it comes to dating, it might put me in a friend zone some of the time but people simply don't understand me. You are right, anyone who would go out with me would face a mountain of work and perhaps its not worth it for them, especially when there are better alternatives.

 

 

I can go and sit at a bar, I can pretend to smile, I can greet that cashier, in fact I have done all of those at various times but when I look around me, look at people I liked/like and I just realise its near impossible for me. I talk to people, I once sat with someone who was really nice and people always get a sense about me and she knows I battle with dating and she was honest as to what she said she liked, I wasn't some of those things but I was some of them but yet....see this is the thing people tell you what they want to you to hear, they don't tell you the truth.

 

 

That's the thing people read me, everything I say is written on my face, I don't need to say anything, inexperience, awkwardness its all there and it never ever goes away no matter what I try. So yes you say I must change, change to what, change to what to appease who? Show me a template of success, there isn't one.

 

 

I look at success and I try imitate it, which is really hard when you have no charm and a serious demeanour.

 

 

Do you not think spending the rest of my life alone is something that keeps me awake? Do you know what its like to spend most of your life alone? Do you know what its like to go out, see couples, see people and knowing you cant get that? Do you know what its like to go on a date and just know its yet another person who doesn't interest you?

 

 

I know you do know some of those things so yes the history bothers me but I also know its on a collision course with the future I cannot seem to change. For a few hours every so often I get to experience everything I could want which just ram home what I don't have, I leave there happy, leave there feeling how good it must be to have this sort of companionship. I look for it elsewhere but its never really there.

 

 

As a last resort I just close myself off, walk away from the window of the shop, ignore the people in it.

 

 

SO yes I know the history, know it all too well and have to wear it each and everyday.

[GemmaUK]

Because there would be no challenge in that. Someone put it best, if you are an account you should try to be an architect.

You misunderstood again.

It was me who said the Accountant v Architect words but you have interpreted it the total wrong way.

 

What I said was:

'It's like me, an Accountant, trying to be an Architect - it's not going to work'

I didn't say 'try to be an architect' at all!!!

 

My goodness you are hard to communicate with!

[JuneL]

I know but it is so difficult to get the message across so I've done it myself and have seen others also move on to the next thing as ZA often misunderstands, misses questions an goes on tangents.

To describe what you 'mean' takes a lot of effort to be clear enough for ZA and many here have spent a lot of time already in genuine help, advice and posts. It's hard work when you need to re-explain things.

As you say, inconsistencies, of which there are heaps are exhausting to track.

 

I think he avoids or twists certain questions, partly deliberately and partly unconsciously. The deliberate part is quite obvious. As for the unconscious part, it’s likely due to his opinionated mind; I don’t believe it has anything to do with how carefully he reads (skimming or not). I say this from experience.

[Imajerk17]

What I am trying to do more of is be me and project them rather being the somewhat quiet guy in the corner.

 

OK that's fine, and how do you plan on doing this?

 

There have been a few guys on here who have made huge strides in their dating and social lives. But to do this, they *really* put themselves out there. And they had quite more of an open mind (that is key here--an OPEN MIND). For example, these guys may still be going on these Tinder meetups with women they aren't sure about, as you have been doing. BUT even if these guys concluded that they weren't interested, they still made a point of:

 

(a) Enjoying themselves with the woman--and making sure she had a good time. They found something really interesting/cool about the person in front of them.

 

(b) Learning what they could do the next time to connect with someone (even if it were only for that night), instead of concluding that 'no woman likes me' or 'girls are shallow/have no depth' ect. Maybe these guys would post in more detail about their dates to get more useful feedback.

 

In particular, they would STAY AWAY from 'shyness-induced snobbery'. They would also explore different avenues of meeting women. And maybe seek out a wingman/close female friend who could give them some pointers. And they also would explore getting physical with a woman/making a move, ect. They would learn how to read signs and signals.

 

ZA, I say this as constructively as possible, but I really have not seen you do the above. I mean, you DO go on dates but from your posts it sounds that you close yourself off fast. OR perhaps instead, you get into the same conversational patter that clearly is not working. And on that note, for all you write here, you actually don't really post nearly enough *specific* details about your dates for us to be able to give *useful* feedback. It is a shame as we all would like to see you get unstuck.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Imajerk17