Why can't people be liked for who they are

[Garlend]

I'm simply going to respond directly to the title of this windy thread, "Why can't people be liked for who they are".

 

Society socially conditions each generation to be particular and discriminating about contemporary trends, such as clothing styles, age, weight, hair styles, income, social status, formal education, political ideologies, religion, and sundry other issues that keep individuals frustrated, exasperated, confused, and depressed about finding that special someone. And it's all about the money this psychological manipulation generates for the power elite.

 

Anyone who has the fortitude to deliberately deviate from these accepted norms will be ostracized from the social scene for being "weird" (a distinctly unique individual).

 

So I'm "weird" and proud of it... I'm also married to a wonderful little lady who loves me just for me. So I really don't care what criteria society uses to control what's hot and what's not.

[ZA Dater]

I'm as picky as anyone when it comes to life philosophy, personality, intelligence, looks, etc. But I don't have anywhere near the problem you do finding partners. Are there any plausible alternatives to your search methodology that could be used to broaden your horizons?

 

For example, I don't know how true it is, but it was alluded to (in jest, but was there some truth to it?) that you're very successful. Could you, say, travel for an extensive period of time to see what it's like in other places and meet new people? Consider opening another office for your company (companies?) somewhere where it might be a better fit for you? Get on an international dating site for successful men (not a mail order bride type thing, just a "normal" one)? Just honest questions.

 

And just out of curiosity, are you of Dutch ancestry? All this time, that's how I've pictured you, for whatever reason.

 

 

I think to answer you question I am decently successful but I don't think I am where I want to be yet. Travel just isn't on the agenda at the moment with a multitude of projects on the go at the moment. Ironically its these projects which make me feel a bit less lonely.

 

 

This might sound odd but I don't think I would want to be liked for being successful exclusively.

 

 

For me a large part of life is about building and creating things, having those objectives and I don't often find people like that. Too often I find people who just sort of exist, someone said to me the other day "I wont ever be successful" I don't accept that. Put your head down and graft and you can make improvements.

 

 

In the past I had some bites on Tinder but there just isn't that meeting of mind.

[JuneL]

What if someone said “I won’t ever be successful in dating”?

 

I think to answer you question I am decently successful but I don't think I am where I want to be yet. Travel just isn't on the agenda at the moment with a multitude of projects on the go at the moment. Ironically its these projects which make me feel a bit less lonely.

 

 

This might sound odd but I don't think I would want to be liked for being successful exclusively.

 

 

For me a large part of life is about building and creating things, having those objectives and I don't often find people like that. Too often I find people who just sort of exist, someone said to me the other day "I wont ever be successful" I don't accept that. Put your head down and graft and you can make improvements.

 

 

In the past I had some bites on Tinder but there just isn't that meeting of mind.

[GemmaUK]

This might sound odd but I don't think I would want to be liked for being successful exclusively.

 

No, that's normal, you're much less unique than you think.

Just the same is that women don't want to be liked for eg looks alone or hip waist ratio alone, or smile alone or quirk alone.

 

Must admit that I have been on dates where it's clear he isn't for me, doesn't stop me being pleasant, friendly and able to enjoy spending some time with them though.

 

I don't expect to be wowed on any first meet or first date though.

Wowwing - personality wise always comes later.

 

Basically, the question you appear to be asking - without actually asking it is how to woo K specifically.

K is a woman who is in a long term relationship already who treats you as her best friend.

Any advice or suggestions has to be something you try with her or it's not for you.

 

We can't tell you what is in her mind - we can tell you that if she is with him, no matter how much she complains then she is with him.

 

You don't want to date anyone else, let's face it, you go on dates out of boredom and K is your focus always.

 

To not stay in limbo talk to her about how you feel, what you want and ask her if she will leave her man to be with you.

[brigit87]

No, that's normal, you're much less unique than you think.

Just the same is that women don't want to be liked for eg looks alone or hip waist ratio alone, or smile alone or quirk alone.

 

Must admit that I have been on dates where it's clear he isn't for me, doesn't stop me being pleasant, friendly and able to enjoy spending some time with them though.

 

I don't expect to be wowed on any first meet or first date though.

Wowwing - personality wise always comes later.

 

Basically, the question you appear to be asking - without actually asking it is how to woo K specifically.

K is a woman who is in a long term relationship already who treats you as her best friend.

Any advice or suggestions has to be something you try with her or it's not for you.

 

We can't tell you what is in her mind - we can tell you that if she is with him, no matter how much she complains then she is with him.

 

You don't want to date anyone else, let's face it, you go on dates out of boredom and K is your focus always.

 

To not stay in limbo talk to her about how you feel, what you want and ask her if she will leave her man to be with you.

 

Totally agree.

 

From just reading this thread the subtext seems to be "How do I get K to be mine?" Unless unconsciously OP knows that K won't be his and this is his way of dating without dating.

 

Who knows?

 

I've been in K's shoes and it's lots of fun to have a guy who is so into you he'll play girlfriend. She's getting a huge ego boost.

[Normm]

Unless unconsciously OP knows that K won't be his and this is his way of dating without dating.

 

 

Women live longer than men. I think the life expectancy is like a 4 year difference. Maybe he's just going to wait it out.

[JuneL]

Does K use you for help too? I'm debating whether she sees you as an orbiter or a gay good friend...

[ZA Dater]

Totally agree.

 

From just reading this thread the subtext seems to be "How do I get K to be mine?" Unless unconsciously OP knows that K won't be his and this is his way of dating without dating.

 

Who knows?

 

I've been in K's shoes and it's lots of fun to have a guy who is so into you he'll play girlfriend. She's getting a huge ego boost.

 

 

Could well be. Its preferable to going on Tinder dates that I can tell you, or dates where I get nothing from the experience at all.

 

 

As I said earlier I am pretty much resigned to adapting to whatever situation has me getting most of what I like even if it is severely compromised. The benefit for me is I can practice things, lets be honest how many of you ladies would want a guy a clearly inexperienced guy to practice different body language on a date, my guess is few.

 

 

Also remember I am someone who hasn't really had many friends so the friendship aspect is nice.

[ZA Dater]

What if someone said “I won’t ever be successful in dating”?

 

 

 

I try. Its like the 32yo hoping to be a professional soccer player, to do so you would need to start practicing in late teens.

 

 

What's your definition of success though? That's pretty subjective. For years I hid my completely inept/horrid dating experiences but achieved nothing by doing that, at least now I own them for better of worse.

[ZA Dater]

No, that's normal, you're much less unique than you think.

Just the same is that women don't want to be liked for eg looks alone or hip waist ratio alone, or smile alone or quirk alone.

 

Must admit that I have been on dates where it's clear he isn't for me, doesn't stop me being pleasant, friendly and able to enjoy spending some time with them though.

 

I don't expect to be wowed on any first meet or first date though.

Wowwing - personality wise always comes later.

 

Basically, the question you appear to be asking - without actually asking it is how to woo K specifically.

K is a woman who is in a long term relationship already who treats you as her best friend.

Any advice or suggestions has to be something you try with her or it's not for you.

 

We can't tell you what is in her mind - we can tell you that if she is with him, no matter how much she complains then she is with him.

 

You don't want to date anyone else, let's face it, you go on dates out of boredom and K is your focus always.

 

To not stay in limbo talk to her about how you feel, what you want and ask her if she will leave her man to be with you.

 

 

 

You and I are different. I will remain pleasant but I certainly wont enjoy the date at all.

 

 

If I could find someone exceptional who could actually contribute something intangible I would date them tomorrow but I just never find these people, tellingly they are never single so I guess lots of people look for these same qualities.

 

 

Your sarcasm isn't lost on me, thank you. Its a lot more than 99% of my dates have managed.

 

 

My regret with K will always be when she was single I wasn't better, wasn't the person I am now, I have found more confidence and as I have improved the friendship has improved.

 

 

I think its great you get to go on dates multiple times, some of us aren't that lucky, we tend to get thrown on the rubbish heap after one. Kudos to you. See, I can do sarcasm too!

 

 

Sitting I am trying to apply the advice in this thread retrospectively and K apart I don't think there was anyone I really liked enough to want to if I could retrospectively have another opportunity with. Perhaps H would have been viable but I suspect I wouldn't have fitted into her party lifestyle. There was J, probably the most beautiful person I have ever been out with, one of the nicest personalities too, but she wasn't single, despite that she saw me 4 times as a friend.

 

 

Honestly I think after rejection after rejection I just closed myself off to prevent anymore, there are days I regret that but mostly I don't because its not as if I am meeting tons of people I want to date or have a reasonable prospect of dating. The models are a case in point, very nice people, always nice to me but there is no interest of that sort in me. I can get dragged off to a club but its always a disaster from the outset and I end up feeling even worse for not fitting in and end up just being a spare part for the evening.

 

 

Contrary to what people here believe I go out and try to be pleasant if business like, why I do that is simple is I can remain closed off, I don't have to open up because there is no point in doing so, more downside than upside.

 

 

I did go out today and tried to smile at a few people, only to get dismissive looks so I stopped. The problem is I just come off as awkward when I try much of this advice, it makes a bad problem worse so the only way I can actually date is sticking to my old methods where I can hide the awkwardness to some extent.

 

 

As for K, yes I know I am likely not going to get what I want there, unless something astonishing happens but I don't see that realistically happening. My comfort is at least I met someone who does tick most of my boxes.

 

 

Its all back to the simple thing I don't meet enough people and too few impress me to any degree. Snobbish and arrogant thing to say but its not meant that way.

[Beachead]

You and I are different. I will remain pleasant but I certainly wont enjoy the date at all.

 

 

<SNIP>

 

Maybe but atleast its honest and I can respect that.

 

I haven't really been following this thread too much so my apologies if this is a redundant question but what's your objective? What do you want from life? What do you want from a partner?

 

- Beach

Edited July 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[GemmaUK]

Your sarcasm isn't lost on me, thank you. Its a lot more than 99% of my dates have managed.

 

That's odd, there was no sarcasm in my post.

[ZA Dater]

That's odd, there was no sarcasm in my post.

 

 

 

There were a few "impracticalities" which I took as sarcasm.

[ZA Dater]

Maybe but atleast its honest and I can respect that.

 

I haven't really been following this thread too much so my apologies if this is a redundant question but what's your objective? What do you want from life? What do you want from a partner?

 

- Beach

 

 

 

Very hard questions.

 

 

One of my objectives in life is to be true to who I am, do I take this a bit too far, maybe but conversely I know enough people unhappy being what others want them to be. My other objective is to try and be a good person to those around me and to try and contribute positively. My motto is to give more than I take, the downside to this is sometimes I appear overly accommodating and perhaps overly nice but people who get to know me, just realise that is me.

 

 

What I want from a partner, here is the thing I pretty much decided this a long time ago, I always had a very definite idea of what I wanted and liked, it is however very difficult to find that. Much of what I like is defined in the overall person, its not one thing, its not looks, its not intellect its a combination of all of those.

 

 

Probably what I want most of all is someone I just want to be better for, improve things, get challenged, build things with, accomplish things with, someone when I talk to her I am as wowed as when I look at her. Before some chime in and say this doesn't exist I have met three such people ever so they definitely do exist. I am tremendously good at supporting people and those close to me admit I really care a lot.

 

 

I suppose my methods of attaining this and the compromises I have accepted aren't to everyone's approval but when I go onto site after site, date after date and never really find this, are the compromises so bad?

[Beachead]

Very hard questions.

 

 

One of my objectives in life is to be true to who I am, do I take this a bit too far, maybe but conversely I know enough people unhappy being what others want them to be. My other objective is to try and be a good person to those around me and to try and contribute positively. My motto is to give more than I take, the downside to this is sometimes I appear overly accommodating and perhaps overly nice but people who get to know me, just realise that is me.

 

 

What I want from a partner, here is the thing I pretty much decided this a long time ago, I always had a very definite idea of what I wanted and liked, it is however very difficult to find that. Much of what I like is defined in the overall person, its not one thing, its not looks, its not intellect its a combination of all of those.

 

 

Probably what I want most of all is someone I just want to be better for, improve things, get challenged, build things with, accomplish things with, someone when I talk to her I am as wowed as when I look at her. Before some chime in and say this doesn't exist I have met three such people ever so they definitely do exist. I am tremendously good at supporting people and those close to me admit I really care a lot.

 

 

I suppose my methods of attaining this and the compromises I have accepted aren't to everyone's approval but when I go onto site after site, date after date and never really find this, are the compromises so bad?

 

These are great social goals and I don't find anything wrong with the way you approach your relationships. Your questions are reasonable.

 

But what I'm trying to get at is you. Not anyone else or your relationships with anyone else. Forget the social aspect for a minute.

 

What is the end plan in terms of career, education, personal development? How do you plan to get there? What are the goals? Are you where you want to be right now?

 

When things get to complicated to understand, turn your focus inwards and work on yourself.

 

People used to tell me this all the time and for a long time in my life, I resisted this way of thinking because it sounded like a crock of sh*t to me. As I got older, it started to make sense.

 

When you have your own things going on, your focus is inward and not outward. You pay less attention to the things that you don't have any control over that make you question life, get angry or sad and you pay your attention to what you can control..which is you.

 

In the last few years, I've really taken my attention off of other people and most recently have taken indefinite break from dating. I don't like what I see either but I have no control over it. So I study and improve my education, I map out my career goals over the next 1 year, 5 years, and 10. I go to the gym and work out, I read, I try to work on what I feel are weaknesses. For example, I'm not strong at cooking, or plumbing, or fixing certain things on a car. I don't pay much attention to sports or politics but always fall short on conversations in involving those topics and I'd like to contribute more to it. I appreciate the two or three true friends I have and my family. When I want to socialize, I will and I do enjoy meeting new people.

 

And the thing is, I'm doing this for me. I actually enjoy the solitude. What I put in, I get out. Simple. I don't do them to hopefully return one day and win a woman with them. I don't care about meeting "Miss Right" or anyone in particular. I don't invest my heart into variable things.

 

I used to though and I was miserable the whole time. Like you I always wondered why things couldn't be different. The answer is, this is the way it is and it won't change. So do you want to live or die? I chose life.

 

The switch in mindset changed my life.

 

- Beach

Edited July 22, 2018 by Beachead

[Chilli]

"Why can't people be liked for who they are"

 

Well, frankly, because some people suck.

 

I think that pretty much clears things up here. What does everyone else think?

 

Nope , l'm still a bit confused.

So who sucks , ZA or the people that don't like others for who they are, umm.

[brigit87]

"Why can't people be liked for who they are"

 

Well, frankly, because some people suck.

 

I think that pretty much clears things up here. What does everyone else think?

 

LOL! spot on.

[Normm]

Nope , l'm still a bit confused.

So who sucks , ZA or the people that don't like others for who they are, umm.

 

Spot on. Although it could very well be that's what he's convinced himself because it's more palatable to him than accepting the alternative. "They don't want to date me, but that's ok because I didn't like them anyway!"

[normal person]

"Why can't people be liked for who they are"

 

Well, frankly, because some people suck.

 

I think that pretty much clears things up here. What does everyone else think?

 

While true, I think his question was meant to imply "Why can't I be liked for who I am?"

 

I'm sure OP is a nice, great, guy who is "liked," but to assume that because he's nice or moral, that he should then be awarded womens' affections without consideration of much else, would be patently wrong, and is one of the recurring themes of his threads.

[Normm]

I'm sure OP is a nice, great, guy who is "liked," but to assume that because he's nice or moral, that he should then be awarded womens' affections without consideration of much else, would be patently wrong, and is one of the recurring themes of his threads.

 

 

To take your point one step further, the blatent hypocracy which is also a recurring theme in his threads is apparent when he complains that he isn't liked for who HE is and yet at the same time most of the people he meets he supposedly has no interest in whatsoever. He doesn't like them for who they are yet expects to be treated differently.

[ZA Dater]

To take your point one step further, the blatent hypocracy which is also a recurring theme in his threads is apparent when he complains that he isn't liked for who HE is and yet at the same time most of the people he meets he supposedly has no interest in whatsoever. He doesn't like them for who they are yet expects to be treated differently.

 

 

 

Here is the fundamental flaw in your logic. I at least gave them a chance, cant say I am afforded the same opportunity. So whilst some in this thread go on and on about taking people on 3 or 4 dates before dismissing them, others wont take people on one date if they don't like the look of them, at least I fall somewhere in between, well most of the time anyway.

 

 

Because I have no interest in them doesn't mean I don't appreciate who they are, there is a big difference there.

[ZA Dater]

Spot on. Although it could very well be that's what he's convinced himself because it's more palatable to him than accepting the alternative. "They don't want to date me, but that's ok because I didn't like them anyway!"

 

 

 

I actually don't really care what people think of me, I am not so fragile to bother about what others think of me. And yes I have done that thinking before and strangely enough it does make me feel better, or used to when I bothered to go on pointless dates.

 

 

Admittedly I did change things a bit hoping people would like me more but that hasn't happened, again where is the loss for me? If you have never had something you cannot really miss it can you?

 

 

This whole line of conversation reminds of a 21st I went to years ago, someone I studied with, probably the only thing we had in common was studies but nevertheless I got invited, we were the same age at the time. Guess what I completely didn't fit in, was I judged sure, did I care, not actually that much.

 

 

So much of dating is apparently the tangibles its hugely difficult if you don't value those that much, whether she has brown or blond hair, I couldn't care to be honest. All it seems to be about is getting some form of mutual attention and some are so desperate for it they will get involved into any sort of intrinsically flawed relationship for it.

 

 

Have I really lost out that much by not dating? Probably yes and probably no, would it have been a growing experience, for sure. Is it viable to do now, not so sure on that one. People give slack but not that as much as I'd need, seeing I have already been told by someone here "you will be impossible to date".

 

 

When I thought about it, it would actually be almost impossible to do now because

 

 

1: I don't want older but relate to them slighter better, they expect experience which I don't have.

2: I cant get younger because they don't relate to me or them

3: I don't want single moms

 

 

Basically leaves me with no dating pool at all unless I go and look for the impossible. So yes my friendships are comfortable places even they are going for lunch with me but going home to f** him, I just have to accept something is better than nothing.

 

 

If people don't like me then so be it.

[GemmaUK]

We seem to be at the end of another thread from the OP where huge amounts of advice is given, the type of advice we have all used ourselves.

Self development advice which reaps small rewards initially, then a person learn a bit more, that person grows, after a time things become habit and very much a part of a person.

The very advice the OP is unwilling to take unless it draws immediate rewards. It doesn't because people and interactions are different so there's not a lot of point in us giving our advice.

 

Note I didn't write the word 'you' in paragraph #2 above - there's a specific reason for that here as OP misunderstands or misinterprets so much that it's incredibly difficult to get any point across.

Even the recent question of 'what do you want out of a relationship?' had to be re-explained.

[ZA Dater]

We seem to be at the end of another thread from the OP where huge amounts of advice is given, the type of advice we have all used ourselves.

Self development advice which reaps small rewards initially, then a person learn a bit more, that person grows, after a time things become habit and very much a part of a person.

The very advice the OP is unwilling to take unless it draws immediate rewards. It doesn't because people and interactions are different so there's not a lot of point in us giving our advice.

Note I didn't write the word 'you' in paragraph #2 above - there's a specific reason for that here as OP misunderstands or misinterprets so much that it's incredibly difficult to get any point across.

Even the recent question of 'what do you want out of a relationship?' had to be re-explained.

 

 

Small rewards, yay, how exciting. Someone looked at me I should feel absolutely flattered they did. Or someone smiled at me.

 

 

This learning is frankly questionable, I cannot find anyone who has learnt any of this, you either know it or you don't. You don't learn it.

 

 

After a time....yes after a time, too late for me. Thanks for making that very clear.

 

 

You might see potential in me but frankly I don't, nothing subjectively or objectively suggest I can ever get this right or more to point be with anyone I would actually want to be with.

 

 

I am not liked, I get that but don't then tell me I am wrong to not like many others either. I have tried over and over to reinvent myself none of the iterations are liked so there comes a time where you just have to give up and make do with whatever "togetherness" you can find in other aspects of life.

 

 

The dating world sees an apple true, I see an orange tree and that never going to really change unfortunately.

 

 

Nevertheless thanks for the advice. You said it yourself "you will be too much work, why would anyone bother"

 

 

Sums it up really.

[brigit87]

Small rewards, yay, how exciting. Someone looked at me I should feel absolutely flattered they did. Or someone smiled at me.

 

 

This learning is frankly questionable, I cannot find anyone who has learnt any of this, you either know it or you don't. You don't learn it.

 

 

After a time....yes after a time, too late for me. Thanks for making that very clear.

 

 

You might see potential in me but frankly I don't, nothing subjectively or objectively suggest I can ever get this right or more to point be with anyone I would actually want to be with.

 

 

I am not liked, I get that but don't then tell me I am wrong to not like many others either. I have tried over and over to reinvent myself none of the iterations are liked so there comes a time where you just have to give up and make do with whatever "togetherness" you can find in other aspects of life.

 

 

The dating world sees an apple true, I see an orange tree and that never going to really change unfortunately.

 

 

Nevertheless thanks for the advice. You said it yourself "you will be too much work, why would anyone bother"

 

 

Sums it up really.

 

It seems like you hate yourself. That's the problem. Stop trying to reinvent yourself it's a huge waste of time. Begin by radically accepting who you are now and forget about manipulating situations, others or yourself.