Finding strength to break the addiction

[jah526]

He is very clear that this is just fun with a friend and there are no attachments for him. I am the fool.

 

This is the part that I don’t get. Mine was really clear about this too. However, yours and I think mine too know how we feel about them. If the situation were reversed and someone was in love with you and you only felt like a friend towards them, could you in good conscience just use them for your own gratification? I couldn’t, wouldn’t do that to someone.

[Vivir]

<in my utmost sarcastic tone> C'mon now, jah... you couldn't, you wouldn't because you have learned and are exhibiting personal responsibilty, personal integrity... living authentically is important to you now more than ever before. The two MM you reference above are not where you are and may not want ever to get there...

 

It is the proverbial road less travelled apparently...

 

To make matters worse, I chatted with a single and supposedly available man earlier this week. While he seems nice enough, he came across to me as OK with seeing multiple people at once, you know, so long as there is the understanding that the OW "knows her role". Upon further questioning (we MUST always question potential partners), he felt that a possible OW would automatically know what her "role" is simply because he has a primary partner... I explained that partnered APs and many of the OWs (especially single ones) assume different things at this juncture... his assumption is that she is cool being second and NEVER being primary or only. She assumes he is planning to leave the primary relationship to be with her...

 

Gawd!

 

N e x t (and sorry for the threadjack)

Edited October 6, 2018 by Vivir

[jah526]

<in my utmost sarcastic tone> C'mon now, jah... you couldn't, you wouldn't because you have learned and are exhibiting personal responsibilty, personal integrity... living authentically is important to you now more than ever before. The two MM you reference above are not where you are and may not want ever to get there...

 

It is the proverbial road less travelled apparently...

 

To make matters worse, I chatted with a single and supposedly available man earlier this week. While he seems nice enough, he came across to me as OK with seeing multiple people at once, you know, so long as there is the understanding that the OW "knows her role". Upon further questioning (we MUST always question potential partners), he felt that a possible OW would automatically know what her "role" is simply because he has a primary partner... I explained that partnered APs and many of the OWs (especially single ones) assume different things at this juncture... his assumption is that she is cool being second and NEVER being primary or only. She assumes he is planning to leave the primary relationship to be with her...

 

Gawd!

 

N e x t (and sorry for the threadjack)

 

Good points and I believe that's true about the assumptions from the man's perspective. Problem is, of course, that no one is really content being second best. I can see now that he and I both wanted different things - I really wanted him to care about me and he really wanted me not to care about anything.

[What_Did_I_Do]

I can see now that he and I both wanted different things - I really wanted him to care about me and he really wanted me not to care about anything.

 

This ^^. The MM "surface care". Meaning they will put minimal effort into the emotional side but we invest fully. The sex MM want and the love we OW want rarely sync together. Thus causing the frustration of both parties when their needs aren't getting met with each other.

[brokenandhopeless]

This is the part that I don’t get. Mine was really clear about this too. However, yours and I think mine too know how we feel about them. If the situation were reversed and someone was in love with you and you only felt like a friend towards them, could you in good conscience just use them for your own gratification? I couldn’t, wouldn’t do that to someone.

 

Ooooh let me clarify though I probably don't need to. MM is great at compartmentalizing. Yup I am a FWB. He knows I care about him a lot as a friend and if I open up about romantic feelings and want more, yup he will cut it off. I think he can be pretty ruthless. To this day, I remember a blowout argument we had 5 months ago when I was upset about something with him and told him I couldn't be without caring etc and he said if i was that upset and wanted to break off contact with him (it was I who suggested breaking off contact because I couldn't take the emotional roller coaster and not being able to tell him how much I was attracted to him and wanted him) , he would not force me and would be ok with it. In fact, I begged him for 5 extra minutes of his time during this argument as he was reaching home. I was in tears and he said he was home and couldn't talk. 5 minutes..I mean 5 minutes and here i was sobbing on the phone....So he has his priorities right. I don't.

 

I just don't get it. He constantly talks to me but doesn't want to see me anymore even in a coffee shop or even make an effort (though we live faaaar away and have seen each other just a handful of times in 20 years). I would love to see him even in a coffee shop but he says I shouldn't expect that.

 

The hardest part is feeling this intense emotional/romantic attachment and not being able to express it honestly to MM...the second I do it, yup he will run because he claims he doesn't want others hurt. It's more like he doesn't want drama. As long as I am ok waiting for contact when he feels like it, and playing it as a FWB, he is fine. He definitely is strongly married. I am just a toy on the side for virtual sexual fun.

 

As for good conscience, frankly I am probably not one with morals now since I crossed the ethicality line. I am doing wrong to his spouse by coveting him and my spouse as well by not being honest.

Edited October 6, 2018 by brokenandhopeless

[Bittersweetie]

Broken, what's your endgame here?

 

Where do you see yourself this time next year? Or in five years?

[Vivir]

Broken, i think Bittersweetie asks a relevant question, especially in your case.

 

I think you're not wanting to let go because he seemingly won't care if you do.

 

If he is contacting you religiously when it is convenient for him, I think you should stop being available during those times. He obviously cares, at least somewhat, about having your ear when he wants or needs it. Take that away from him.

 

Try it for a day, a few days, a week. Find something else to do to occupy your time during those times he usually contacts you. See what happens.

 

I also think that if you forced yourself to put away your emotions and told the truth to yourself, your husband, to this opportunistic married man, you would shake up your world and finally see results (that you may not like, let's be honest here). But at least, then, you would be getting somewhere.

 

So, again, the question Bittersweetie posed has sharp relevance here, and I think you should answer it - even if you just answer it to yourself.

 

P.S. Even if he doesn't care if you stop talking with him or seeing him, you still have worth. Even if you don't believe it, you still have worth. Just saying.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Vivir

[stillafool]

I am here seeking help to end the addiction to an MM who treats me as a friend with benefits. He is somebody from my past with whom I had a weekend PA and then let go when I learned he was going to marry. Fast forward many years later, both married with kids, (he kept in touch wanting to sext but I always refused) and during a weak moment, I started talking to him again and fell for him emotionally. We have met, may be 5 times in two decades. He is very clear that this is just friendship with benefits but does not wish to physically see me anymore but would like to continue staying in touch via texting. I have gone through 4 years of agony and countless tears and I can’t even tell him how I feel because he would cut me off if emotions came into play. Of course, I am the one to blame for getting myself into this situation and all the delusions but that 1% hope is what is ruining me. I know NC is the way to go but I don’t seem to be able to break my addiction to him nor cut him off when he contacts me. He has the power in this, wanting to communicate only when he wishes while I kowtow. I am ashamed of myself and my addictive need and don’t know how to find strength. He pursued me relentlessly 4 years ago and once I caved, all the attention was gone and now I am the one yearning.

 

Whenever he contacts me, I make myself available. Whenever I contact him, I am the mercy of his time and commitments. I realize how one-sided this is. My rational head is so divergent from what my heart wants. How do I talk myself out of the ledge of contacting him every day? Why is it that I am willing to live with the pain and agony and how do I want better for myself? I am so disgusted with myself and feel so hopeless. Somehow I keep fearing, if this breaks, what else is out there in life to look forward to? Although this is not a great situation to be in either…I feel so weak, pathetic, and undignified. I keep humiliating myself everyday by reaching out. I am in such an emotional low that I am already on anti-depressants.

 

You say he is treating you like a FWB. What else would you be to him? You ask if this breaks off what else is out there in life to look forward to - your kids. They are the most important people in your life and with them there is so much to look forward to. Why haven't you blocked this man, filed for divorce and free yourself to be with someone who will make you happy?

[grass-hopper]

If the situation were reversed and someone was in love with you and you only felt like a friend towards them, could you in good conscience just use them for your own gratification? I couldn’t, wouldn’t do that to someone.

 

I think about this all the time. And it’s just unfathomable that a living feeling human being can consciously treat someone the way that some of our MM treat us. Maybe they’re narcissists or sociopaths or psychopaths and have no empathy. And if that’s the case then it is a lost cause that we continue waiting and wanting someone that will never have our best interest in their hearts.

So this is where IC comes in for me. How can I be enough for myself? How can I learn that this person will never give me what I truly need? I’m not there yet. I still feel like brokenandhopless and feel like there’s nothing after him. Even though I know and see who he really truly is.

 

Brokenandhopeless, I still relate to everything you say and feel. The way you feel about MM, your spouse, your marriage, yourself. I don’t have words of wisdom, only to tell you that I walk with you in your hopelessness and you are not alone. May we both find the courage to get out of this. It sounds so easy when everyone says to go NC. And it probably is that easy. It’s our own selves that we must be fighting.

[jah526]

I think about this all the time. And it’s just unfathomable that a living feeling human being can consciously treat someone the way that some of our MM treat us. Maybe they’re narcissists or sociopaths or psychopaths and have no empathy. And if that’s the case then it is a lost cause that we continue waiting and wanting someone that will never have our best interest in their hearts.

So this is where IC comes in for me. How can I be enough for myself? How can I learn that this person will never give me what I truly need? I’m not there yet. I still feel like brokenandhopless and feel like there’s nothing after him. Even though I know and see who he really truly is.

 

Brokenandhopeless, I still relate to everything you say and feel. The way you feel about MM, your spouse, your marriage, yourself. I don’t have words of wisdom, only to tell you that I walk with you in your hopelessness and you are not alone. May we both find the courage to get out of this. It sounds so easy when everyone says to go NC. And it probably is that easy. It’s our own selves that we must be fighting.

 

I get it, that feeling that there is nothing after him. I was there, and it's what kept me stuck. And honestly I don't expect to have a man in my life again, not like that. It sucks because it was nice to feel desired, it really was. But even then I knew it wasn't really me that he desired, he barely even knew me and didn't care to know me. To put it crudely, he just wanted to get his rocks off and I was convenient.

 

You don't have to hold on to someone who is treating you badly. I'm sure I learned that somewhere growing up, that I had to keep holding on. I'm just now starting to recognize what abusive behavior is and how to keep away from it. If I'm grateful for one thing about my experience, it's that it helped me to learn how to protect myself.

 

Heard a good quote the other day - "The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places." You may have been broken in this place, but you definitely are not hopeless.

[brokenandhopeless]

Bittersweetie, Vivir, and stillafool: I've been thinking about the 5 year plan question. 5 years from now, I don't want to "need" a man..I don't want crumbs from my fantasy MM nor my husband. I just want to be self-sufficient and find joy in myself. I don't want to crave/need the physical touch of a man or an emotional connection...things I lack with my H.. and of course fantasy MM is just an escape route for an otherwise boring day. So I want to be free of such needs.

 

I want to just find happiness in myself and be with my kids.

 

A lot of what I am going through stems from family-of-origin problems because I did not have a loving childhood while growing up. My family was/is always bickering and we are all scarred. So I do not have any emotional support there and neither have I seen loving bonds. To see my married life without an emotional/physical bond is just mentally taxing and probably tipped me over the edge. So if I could be emotionally numb and not "feel" or "need" a man for validation, either physically or emotionally, I'll be golden.

 

It's the need to be wanted, physically and emotionally, that is tripping me up. It's the fantasy flirtatious talk and borderline affection that is keeping me engaged because it makes me feel good. I don't want to feel that way. I want to be a person who doesn't need all that and who is super strong. 5 years from now, I want to be a strong and self-sufficient person caring for her kids and doing ok in life. I don't want to be hurt by a H with whom I don't share a connection and I don't want the addiction to a fantasy MM who is happily married and will never feel the same way about me. In short, I want to be in a situation where I don't need a man to be fulfilled. In my rational mind, (for the few short seconds that my rational mind kicks in) I know that I don't need a man. However, by now you all know that my rationality is out the window.

 

Sorry for rambling and saying the same thing over and over again. You get what I mean. Just feeling a tad low today especially after hearing some family bickering. Oh well.

[brokenandhopeless]

I think about this all the time. And it’s just unfathomable that a living feeling human being can consciously treat someone the way that some of our MM treat us. Maybe they’re narcissists or sociopaths or psychopaths and have no empathy. And if that’s the case then it is a lost cause that we continue waiting and wanting someone that will never have our best interest in their hearts.

So this is where IC comes in for me. How can I be enough for myself? How can I learn that this person will never give me what I truly need? I’m not there yet. I still feel like brokenandhopless and feel like there’s nothing after him. Even though I know and see who he really truly is.

 

Brokenandhopeless, I still relate to everything you say and feel. The way you feel about MM, your spouse, your marriage, yourself. I don’t have words of wisdom, only to tell you that I walk with you in your hopelessness and you are not alone. May we both find the courage to get out of this. It sounds so easy when everyone says to go NC. And it probably is that easy. It’s our own selves that we must be fighting.

 

Hugs to you grass-hopper. I know exactly how you feel.

[Bittersweetie]

Broken, thank you for answering my question. Like Vivir said, you didn't have to answer it here. I'm glad that you have been thinking about it. You are smart for recognizing where some of your issues come from and thinking about how you want things to be different in the future.

 

One of the main reasons I had my affair, beyond me being selfish and self-centered and insecure, is that I thought it was my husband's job to make me happy. He wasn't, and therefore I went searching for someone to "fill in the gaps" to make me happy.

 

The only person who can make me happy, of course, is me. I now focus on the things that I have, the things I am thankful for, and I am happy. Not perfect, but happy. It sounds simple but it took me a long, long time to get to that point. I share because my deep-root cause, did not come overnight. It did not come after just a bit of work. It was long and hard.

 

I know what it's like to look at oneself and think the changes to be made are so big and overwhelming, why bother. Why even try. But the bother and try is worth it. Like, if you wanted to lose 100 pounds, you know that wouldn't happen in a month. Inner change is like that too. It just takes one step at a time, one day at a time.

 

So now try to think of some small goals you can take to move yourself toward your five year goal. Like Vivir suggested, make yourself unavailable during the times xMM texts. Think of a small way you can step out of your family's drama...take yourself off an email chain or something. Think of 1-2 things you enjoy doing that make you feel good about yourself (because you like doing them, you don't necessarily have to be good at them!) and start adding them into your life.

 

Then in a week or so, when you've worked these things into yourself, think of 2-3 new things to work into yourself. And keep moving forward, small steps at a time.

 

Hope today is going better for you.

[brokenandhopeless]

So I have had good and bad days and today is a terrible day. The last couple of months I sort of stopped contacting him but he kept contacting me and i did engage to be honest. However, I kept constantly telling myself that he has a family, so do I, and I did many things to keep myself busy and I am continuing to find things to keep myself busy.

 

 

 

Today though, he messaged me again. For him it is all online naughty stuff and for me it's more emotional which I can't express. He always wants to talk about naughty things about my friends and I told him I couldn't do that and he today couldn't understand why. I've told him this multiple times before. I tried making him understand. In the end we had an argument, and somehow, in standing up for myself in all this, I feel like I am the one who made a mistake and made a mountain out of a molehill. Yet my rational mind says, I was sticking up for myself. I just don't know why I feel so weepy and emotional.

 

 

 

I see how messed up this is. I just can't bloody understand why I have such feelings for a guy who has no emotional depth (Yes yes, neither do I for having a one-sided EA and my spouse not knowing etc.). I am so mad at myself. I was doing soooo well. He is a friend and uhhhh he has the power to cut me off, which he did today. Yup I stood up for myself, had an argument, and he cut me off and I feel like I blew it up when I know I did the right thing. Why, just why?!! Sorry for the rant. I am so mad at myself.

I don't know why I am blaming myself for this argument when I know I did the right thing and I am trying to go on a better path for myself. In fact, today, I wished him well and asked him to pursue the other women he fantasizes about.It killed me of course but hey, I need to move on. Not a good day today. Sorry guys.

 

 

 

I just don't understand why I am not blocking him. I am not able to take that drastic step.

 

 

He had the power to completely cut off the conversation today and to ignore me after the argument, and I gave him that power not being able to do a damn thing. Haven't heard from him and I just dont know why I feel so terrible for taking a stance. I just wish he could understand but he doesn't even try to.

Edited December 16, 2018 by brokenandhopeless

[anika99]

OP are you in counselling? If not I recommend that you start. I haven't read the whole thread but from what I have read I can tell that your problems have zilch to do with this guy. He could be anybody. He's just your standard user and cheater and they're a dime a dozen. He could be anyone of a million guys and you would still be here writing this thread. You picked him and if wasn't available to be picked then you would have picked someone else just like him.

 

We don't get emotionally involved with people by accident. We pick people based on what drives us on the inside. If we have a driving force that is broken and damaged then we will be attracted to the people who feed that drive. Doesn't matter who they are, if their brokenness calls out to our brokenness then we latch on and then live out our toxic desires.

 

You say that you've told him multiple times how you feel, like you want him change. He's not the one who has to change. Why should he? He's happy with himself and the way his life is. He is making himself happy. Yes he's screwed in the head but if it's not a problem for him why should he change. You are the one who is desperately unhappy so it's your job to fix that, not his.

 

You are in limbo because you fear the pain and anxiety of ending this for good so instead you are prolonging the agony and you have turned this pain into a daily misery that you have to deal with 24/7 because you won't close the door.

 

Imagine two people who each have a painful abscessed tooth that needs to be removed but there's no novocaine. One person says to themselves "well I'm never going to get rid of this pain as long as I keep this tooth. Getting it pulled is going to be an agonizing hell but I gotta do it if I'm ever going to feel good again" and they go do it even though it's a nightmare to face"

 

The other person thinks "no way can I go through that pain! I know what I can do. I'll take a pair of pliers and everyday I'll pull on the tooth just a little bit. It will get looser and looser until one day it will just fall out and I won't even feel it" And so they live with the constant pain of that infected tooth everyday. They take their pliers and pull on it a little here and there. Sometimes it looks like progress is being made but loose teeth have a way of reattaching themselves so there isn't much change overall. Meanwhile that infected tooth is slowly poisoning their whole body not to mention the daily pain. It's a trauma that never ends.

 

For the person who bit the bullet and went through the agony of extraction with no numbing agent, that abscessed tooth is nothing but a distant memory now. They were in great pain for a few days afterwards. Swollen and bruised, unable to eat, they looked and felt horrible, but each day got a little better. It took time and pain but they healed fully and they were so glad they faced their fear because they knew they were never going to get better until the tooth was completely removed.

 

I know the healing from a traumatic relationship takes a lot longer than healing from a pulled tooth and that emotional pain is different than physical pain, but physical pain takes a toll on the emotions and emotional pain takes a toll on the body so the idea is the same. By keeping the door open to this guy you are choosing daily pain with no end it sight. When you end it, it's not going to feel wonderful, it's going to hurt and it's going to suck real bad but then healing can begin and you will one day feel good again.

[DKT3]

I believe a lot of people simply get bored with the mundane stuff and daily married life. They then take small steps to find excitement and connections. Before they know it they are neck deep.

 

I have silently followed her journey, I believe she enjoys the drama of it all, that's what's keeping her stuck. Logically she clearly understands it's a worthless thing, but the drama of it all makes her feel alive. Staying here is better than the alternative. Its likely she will continue on some level until she gets caught.

Edited December 16, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed quote

[misspalmy]

i told his wife. it help him stop seeing me

[DKT3]

Having gone back and reread the thread, I have to ask. You talked about not really having a connection with your husband, the question is how can you expect to have one? I mean you admit to unfavorably comparing all men to your AP and you've basically been his sex toy for the duration of your marriage albeit not much physically.

 

You have put everything in your AP in the fantasy of him that you have mostly created in your head. you have allowed this fantasy to overtake all reason and logic.

 

Why are you still married? You have never made your husband a priority and honestly it sounds like you've used him as a replacement for a man you cant have. Unless your husband has some kind of emotional short coming I'm sure he feels the lack of connection.

 

This is all linked, your inability to break free, or your unwillingness really, and the fear of having nothing else to fall back on. You seemed to have given up everything in your life for decades. I dont think you can blame anybody or thing for your overall lack of joy, when you've given all your power of joy to a man who doesn't want you the way you want him.

 

I hope you find the strength to do what's best, including for your husband, he also deserves to understand what it's like to have a wife who loves him.

[Bittersweetie]

If this guy is truly done with you (and somehow I doubt that) then you have been given a gift. It doesn't seem like it, but it's a gift to start focusing your energies in a more positive direction.

 

I just don't understand why I am not blocking him. I am not able to take that drastic step.

 

It's not that you "are not able"...you are making the choice to not block. Just like you are making the choice to answer the texts. You don't start texts with the guy, but you answer. Who says you have to answer? You don't owe this person anything. Listen, you are a grown woman who makes choices...nothing "just happens." I told myself that too when I was in the A, but the fact is I decided to do what I wanted to do. And there was pain and there was consequences. Maybe DKT3 is right and subconsciously you want the drama. Have you done counseling? Talking with a third party helped a lot of me.

 

Have you started making small changes yet? The upcoming new year would be a perfect time to start.

[NotADayGoesBy]

Why don't you take back your power by blocking him? Then, when he goes to contact you (and he will eventually) it will be YOU who had the last word and ended things--not him.

 

If you are too weak to resist his texts/calls, then blocking him takes away that possibility and temptation. Typically, how often does he contact you? If it's daily, then block him for a week and then reevaluate. You haven't given yourself a chance to get over him since you allow him to contact you. Give yourself a few weeks and see what happens. Maybe it will help you find clarity in your life and marriage.

 

We all know how hard it is. But like you said--it's only a matter of time before he ghosts you. Why not be the one to leave first with some dignity? You will never get from him what you need and there will never be any closure. Be brave and save yourself many more months of this slow and painful torture.

[brokenandhopeless]

I will respond to the individual inputs but I've been sort of overwhelmed emotionally. I've read your helpful responses and I've been thinking about how emotionally dependent I am. I have never been out of a relationship since 15-16 and my husband was the rebound after a failed relationship.

 

I think ALL of my problems stem from emotional neediness and dependency and I am seeking validation from people that are not mine to have. I derive happiness from thinking about another person and in creating situations in my head with that person that give me happiness. Rationally, I know that I am in a hell-hole and is going to require significant work. I am somehow not able to create these happy/ideal situations in my head with my H because I realize the full import of having married him in the rebound. Somehow, it's all catching up to me now. Although he is a very good man, we are also very different.

 

Been trying to google how to find a good IC. The one that came through work employee assistance plan was not a good fit for me.

 

For now, i've been reading articles online about emotional dependency/addiction. But i am in the throes of deep emotional pain as well and it's pretty much been hell.

 

Thank you all for your inputs.

[brokenandhopeless]

Hi,

 

I wanted to post an update especially since Aloha123 asked. Thank you Aloha123 for thinking of me.

 

Well things have sort of petered out. It was always one-sided to begin with except for his pursuing me for naughty stuff but that has died down. It's been 2 years since I saw him and since we live on different coasts that probably ain't happening. And he never makes any move on that front. He is content just talking to me.

 

He initiates contact sometimes during week days and we speak for a 20 mins and we talk about work and world news. Very low, actually bordering to nil naughty stuff. I probably reach out once for every 4-5 times he reaches out. At this point, it's probably more friendship and when this ends, I will mourn the loss of a friendship. In any case, the romantic fantasies were always from my end and not his. His goal was just to be naughty.

 

The fantasies in my head have died down. I do sometimes wish things had been different but I am a lot more realistic now. I am also in the process of cutting off the toxicity from my family-of-origin which was contributing to a lot of the poor choices I was making.

 

I long to be able to tell my husband about this and the couple of times I slipped up physically with MM (which never went all the way). I don't know if I will do it but at least I hope and want to be strong enough to do it, be honest, face the consequences and be clean.

 

As for my relationship with my husband, we get along fine. No great romance or passion there. No arguments either. I don't ask for anything emotionally etc.

 

In some ways, I am in a state of acceptance of things.

 

For the crusaders of "tell-your-husband-you-are-not-authentic-until-then-he-deserves-to-know", please, I am not yet there and IF/WHEN I am, I will tell you.

[Orokotikki]

Comes across a bit entitled to expect people to be ok with your decision to damage lives and relationships and to owe sensitivity to you and refrain from stating the simply obvious.

[brokenandhopeless]

Orokotikki, you are welcome to your thoughts. This is exactly why I refrained from posting here so long because a lot of the inputs are not constructive and full of vitriol. Some are genuine.

 

For the record, I am the most damaged in this process contrary to what you may choose to believe about my being selfish/entitled yada yada. Go ahead, continue the bashing. The only other person I owe the honesty to, is my H.

 

Every post in this forum recently goes somewhat along these lines:

 

1. AP posts a story seeking support.

 

2. People bash AP about BS endlessly.

Edited June 3, 2019 by brokenandhopeless

[DKT3]

If I'm being honest, in my opinion there isnt much need to confess given your husbands lack of emotional connection. Most men dont believe in emotional affairs, you never had sex and it really amounts to a one sided fantasy.

 

This is of course dependent upon you ending contact.