Finding strength to break the addiction

[Bittersweetie]

Broken, I am glad to hear that you are making progress. It seems you are addressing your family issues while also recognizing the realities of your A. I'd suggest that the next step would be cutting contact with MM completely, while it would be the end of a friendship, you would be cutting out something else that caused more toxicity in your life. That step doesn't have to happen immediately but it does seem you are on a path toward it.

 

As for confessing, I do advocate for truth, mainly because it is my experience. I would hope I don't "bash" people about it...however I do think it is important for WS to at least recognize the aspect of how one's actions has affected the BS's reality. It was a very powerful moment for me after d-day when my H said to me, "If I'd known what you were doing, I wouldn't have [made a specific career choice]." I took his truth away from him at a time when he was making a life choice, and that is one of my main regrets.

 

I hope you can continue to gain strength in order to address issues and their consequences. Good luck to you, and also some hugs.

[Aloha123]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you have made a lot of progress! Yeah i'd say acceptance / fading to nothing is about where I am too.

And yes I've stopped posting the details of my situation for the same reason as you.

[Amethyst68]

I'm sorry but please stop with the generalisations, plenty of men believe in EAs, just read actual infidelity boards. Men have divorced over them. I will grant you that when 2 adults are in close proximity it's is unlikely not to be a PA.

[brokenandhopeless]

Thank you DKT3. I did fool around with him a couple of times after my marriage but never all the way. The last time I saw him was 2 years ago and MM did make a statement exactly a year ago saying we probably would never ever see each other again. Reinforces the one-sided story and after that, I've never ever asked him about meeting. But then again, where I am right now, even if he stopped contacting me tomorrow, I think I'd be ok. I'd check if he was ok once probably and leave it at that.

 

I still have the desire to tell my husband just to be honest. I hope I do it though I can't hold myself accountable yet to follow through. Let's see where I stand a few months from now.

 

As always, thank you for your input.

[brokenandhopeless]

I hope you can continue to gain strength in order to address issues and their consequences. Good luck to you, and also some hugs.

 

Thank you Bittersweetie. The last kind line and hugs brought tears to my eyes. Yes I hope I confess. I really do.

 

There are many days already when MM and I don't have contact. So I will do my best to stretch it out. And I don't contact him much these days at least from my end. Hopefully that will put me on a permanent path to no contact. Let's see. He did call today for 15 mins but again, all that was spoken was about world news. Nothing more at all.

 

He mentioned today his family was travelling during the summer while he would be working. A couple of years ago, I'd be plotting of a way to fly across to see him. Not so today. He didn't mention wanting to see me and neither did I because I am seeing the reality of it.

 

It's been tough with the family-of-origin situation which is unfolding but I am beginning to stand up for myself and have even proposed estrangement so that we are all at peace.

 

Thank you again for your kind words and I know you mean well when asking me to confess. Your tone is much more constructive. I hope I do.

Edited June 4, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
quote edited

[brokenandhopeless]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you have made a lot of progress! Yeah i'd say acceptance / fading to nothing is about where I am too.

And yes I've stopped posting the details of my situation for the same reason as you.

 

Hugs to you Aloha123 and I always wondered about your path and where you are now. You can always PM me and I'd be happy to be your shoulder and offer you support and strength. Thank you for thinking of me.

[brokenandhopeless]

I'm sorry but please stop with the generalisations, plenty of men believe in EAs, just read actual infidelity boards. Men have divorced over them. I will grant you that when 2 adults are in close proximity it's is unlikely not to be a PA.

 

Amethyst68. Thanks. I've read your life story etc on other threads too. I know you mean well. I know you think we are all selfish and liars...If only you knew the price we are already paying everyday mentally and through tears.

[Aloha123]

BrokenandHopeless, I think we are very similar in that we were each the ones who made most of the effort to keep things going, so by not doing this we essentially can end things pretty easily.

For me, the weaning off approach worked better than the strict "I am never talking to you again" NC approach. My goal is to still get to NC, but it will be a much less drastic shock to the system since our contact has now dwindled down to almost nothing anyway.

[Abetterme]

@broken & aloha - Glad to see your updates and that you both seem to be doing better. Can I ask, does the low contact cause you distress? Why not just quit responding. You ladies both see the light and know you deserve better. I think you are both allowing some undue stress by allowing them to “friend” you and I think you’re both ready!

 

I know the common excuse is losing a friendship, I get it, but if we are all honest with ourselves they were never really our friends (I know for certain my xMm had other motivations in “befriending” me). The low contact just leaves you in a perpetual state of wondering where you stand. It will never be what it was and you’re honest about that. Jump off the ledge and really let them go.

[Aloha123]

@broken & aloha - Glad to see your updates and that you both seem to be doing better. Can I ask, does the low contact cause you distress? Why not just quit responding. You ladies both see the light and know you deserve better. I think you are both allowing some undue stress by allowing them to “friend” you and I think you’re both ready!

 

Sure. NC is definitely the goal. However, I tried NC two times in the past and ultimately gave in, which was honestly pretty humiliating and just further proved my dependency on him.

 

This way, I am slowly but surely learning to live without the daily contact. Somehow knowing that I can contact him but am choosing not to, rather than not contacting him because I "can't" makes it easier for me right now. I realize that is not the conventional wisdom.

 

It's kind of like dieting for me. If I do something too restrictive, like eliminate all carbs or try to go on that god forsaken keto diet, I last all of about two days. But if I try something less drastic, it's much more successful (and sustainable) in the long run.

 

I just turned 50. I know how my mind works. My approach is not for everybody. But by the time we really do stop communicating for good, regardless of which one of us sends the final communication, it won't be too much of a shock to the system.

[Abetterme]

Yes, I’ve seen you mention this in your thread. It also just seemed like it was causing you a lot of anxiety. Some of your posts in recent days seemed to signal some progress in letting the fantasy go. Just wanted to give you some extra encouragement to take your power back.

 

It’s not that you can’t contact him, you just have to want to put yourself first and you won’t.

[Aloha123]

Yes, I’ve seen you mention this in your thread. It also just seemed like it was causing you a lot of anxiety. Some of your posts in recent days seemed to signal some progress in letting the fantasy go. Just wanted to give you some extra encouragement to take your power back.

 

It’s not that you can’t contact him, you just have to want to put yourself first and you won’t.

 

Thanks for the encouragement! yes I have come a long way. Another analogy is training for a marathon. If you tried to go from 0 to 100 (or in this case, 100 to 0), too quickly, you would fail and just feel defeated.

[georgia girl]

Broken,

 

Thank you for sharing your journey and your update. I really don’t have any advice to offer but just wanted to thank you. From what I read here, the journey of the OW is a painful and difficult one. As some would argue, one of your own making but that’s neither here nor there. It’s a human journey and for all of the joy experienced, from what I can see, the pain exponentially outpaces it. It sounds to me like your painful journey is slowly coming to an end. I wish you peace and joy.

 

Warmest regards,

GG

[brokenandhopeless]

Abetterme: Thank you for your words of encouragement. Distress? Yes sometimes but it's more like 70% of the time I don't care now to 30% when I get triggered. I think in the past the ratios were switched. Don't know why, may be I am still holding out the 1% negligible hope that I am not able to cut the cord brutally? If here were to do it, it would be far easier because it's a decision I didn't have to make and I would never force anybody into anything. Thanks again for the encouragement.

 

Aloha123: Yes like you, I don't think I am able to rip the band-aid in one shot. I'd rather withdraw slowly which is what I have been doing. It's far easier knowing I can contact him but I choose not to. I set goals for myself saying yup, if at all I get triggered, I won't contact him more than x times in a certain period of time or a percentage or something. Somedays I sit on my hand literally. But it's become easier. In fact, if HE were to request to stop it, it would be far easier. I don't why I keep thinking I can't do it ever. Perhaps because I will feel guilty for doing something or missing out on something (may be that 1% hope still?). Also with regards to effort, it's funny, we met once before when we were both single and for 14 years after when we were both married, I didn't engage at all though (had better ethics and values then, go figure) he used to call me regularly wanting fun. In fact, I used to ignore his texts and calls. Somewhere, possibly during a low phase, call it boredom whatever, I caved. He did all the work and when I caved, he withdrew and the effort started from my end. I wonder sometimes why he pursued and then left. I'll never know the answer but I also question far less these days and just accept things as they are. Sometimes I am angry, like today. And I think that's good. That just helps me process things and everytime I get fond memories, I try to remember the bad times and his/my family to temper the fond memories. All the best to you. I hope the fading away stays on course.

[brokenandhopeless]

Broken,

 

Thank you for sharing your journey and your update. I really don’t have any advice to offer but just wanted to thank you. From what I read here, the journey of the OW is a painful and difficult one. As some would argue, one of your own making but that’s neither here nor there. It’s a human journey and for all of the joy experienced, from what I can see, the pain exponentially outpaces it. It sounds to me like your painful journey is slowly coming to an end. I wish you peace and joy.

 

Warmest regards,

GG

 

Thank you Georgia Girl for the kind words. It means a lot. I will keep updating. For all my rant about some caustic comments, its heartening to see positive words and thank you for that. I don't dispute the fact that it's of my own making. However, I am going to keep reminding myself that my gut has always been right. I did not give in to him for 14 years because of my values and gut instincts on how this would turn out. I should just remember that going forward. Que sera sera.

Edited June 4, 2019 by brokenandhopeless

[Abetterme]

Distress? Yes sometimes but it's more like 70% of the time I don't care now to 30% when I get triggered. I think in the past the ratios were switched. Don't know why, may be I am still holding out the 1% negligible hope that I am not able to cut the cord brutally? If here were to do it, it would be far easier because it's a decision I didn't have to make and I would never force anybody into anything. Thanks again for the encouragement.

 

Aloha123: Yes like you, I don't think I am able to rip the band-aid in one shot. I'd rather withdraw slowly which is what I have been doing. It's far easier knowing I can contact him but I choose not to. I set goals for myself saying yup, if at all I get triggered, I won't contact him more than x times in a certain period of time or a percentage or something. Somedays I sit on my hand literally. But it's become easier. In fact, if HE were to request to stop it, it would be far easier. I don't why I keep thinking I can't do it ever. Perhaps because I will feel guilty for doing something or missing out on something (may be that 1% hope still?). Also with regards to effort, it's funny, we met once before when we were both single and for 14 years after when we were both married, I didn't engage at all though (had better ethics and values then, go figure) he used to call me regularly wanting fun. In fact, I used to ignore his texts and calls. Somewhere, possibly during a low phase, call it boredom whatever, I caved. He did all the work and when I caved, he withdrew and the effort started from my end. I wonder sometimes why he pursued and then left. I'll never know the answer but I also question far less these days and just accept things as they are. Sometimes I am angry, like today. And I think that's good. That just helps me process things and everytime I get fond memories, I try to remember the bad times and his/my family to temper the fond memories.

 

@Broken - I do understand this logic, sadly because I think there was a time I very much felt the same way. What I realized was that not completely cutting contact would never be a problem for him, because he would just be going on with his life. If he talked to me as a “friends” great, if he didn’t, no worries. It would leave me in the cycle of constant hurt even if there were days when I “wouldn’t care”. What you describe above is extreme distress in my mind. Limiting the times you reach out so you don’t appear needy?? Is that something you’d do with your girlfriends? When I go through things or they do, I never question how or when it’s appropriate to contact them. That is real friendship - not this. Truly, what do you feel like you’d be losing?

 

I don’t doubt if I reached out to my xMM he would engage. He doesn’t care and none of it causes him distress. That is so degrading. I won’t go into all the other things about the disrespect to our husbands by staying in contact (obviously there is plenty of discussion on that and I’m not debating it now). I just think it could be healthy to take a step back and say to yourself “what am I really losing if I truly let him go?”I understand it can take awhile to get to this place, but when I re-read the start of your thread it is literally almost a year to the day later and he remains unchanged. If you cut him out, you will be able to give yourself and your family what you all deserve - you back! A time when you couldn’t give less about this guy. It will happen but only when you stop feeding that 1% hope with contact.

 

I don’t mean to belabor my points, I just know because I’ve felt it. Getting to the other side does feel better and given me the time to try and fix what was so badly broken that I went down this path in the first place. Thinking of you both :-)

[brokenandhopeless]

Abetterme: I am reading your post like a 100 times to let it sink in (as well as the other ones in the thread with similar thoughts). You are absolutely right and I've known it all along of course. He doesn't care and if I dropped off the face of the earth, it wouldn't matter much to him.

 

The problem is not him. The problem is me and my willpower. I have come a long way in controlling myself and not constantly checking to see if he is online or texting him. I have come a long way from a year ago. It may not seem like that but it's lightyears better even though not completely solved. What used to be endless checking of my phone has gone down drastically. Not perfect yet but not the crazy checking syndrome I had before. The despair I had last year is not there as much (touchwood).

 

Sometimes I wonder if there is a rehab place for this where I could hole myself up for 10 days and they would snatch away my phone....except that after 10 days I'd need to still have the willpower. None of that matters. What I need to really ask myself is why I am holding onto the 1% and how I should let that go. The moment I treat him like a guy on the street is the moment I will be free. I mean, all this is fantasy via phone. I haven't seen him in years now and probably will not for the rest of our lives given the distance. When I phrase it like that and type it, I can see how stupid this all sounds from me.

 

When you ended it, did you tell your MM you were cutting ties? Did he try to reach out after that? If yes, did you just block him or did you respond reiterating your stance?

 

I am giving serious thought to what you are saying Abetterme. I am way better than where I was but I see what you are saying. Thank you.

[Abetterme]

@broken - Yes, you are right. It is in your hands, although I know it feels like an unimaginable task. I think my addicted brain kept me in the same cycle far too long and if I was still enabling him with periodic contact it would never have ended.

 

Like you, my A was long distance. We went through seeing each other frequently for work travel which was how this initially ramped up. Over time he left our mutual employer and he and his wife were having a child (yes as disgusting as it comes) and the relationship deteriorated. We went through NC for several months last spring when he broke NC and I jumped right back in. It was the worst time of my life. Right before the holidays we parted ways without much drama. He made contact again several months later via a professional site. He even noted that he wanted to remain friendly and saw absolutely nothing wrong with it. I thought maybe I was far enough removed for simple chit chat, but he immediately crossed boundaries and I cut it off for good. It was clear how he saw me and it was another smack in the face that I needed. There was no need for me to say “never talking again” I just blocked him. For my own sanity.

 

I never understood it when it people said the blocking isn’t to punish them, it’s for you but it’s true. I have peace of mind I will not be hearing from him. Free from checking the phone, or waiting on replies that are meaningless. After 6 months I honestly don’t know what the heck I ever saw in this situation. He is terrible, I was terrible, it was the worst decision I have ever made.

 

I know you have known this guy for a long while. If he cares about you even as a friend, when you say “I need to move away from this for my well-being and to focus on my family” he will understand and give you that. It doesn’t make you the bad guy. It shows him you know what you’re worth. I frequently visit a site called post-male syndrome. Highly recommend it. I think you’re stronger than you give yourself credit for.

[brokenandhopeless]

Thank you Abetterme.

 

If I were going to cut off contact, I probably should let him know once and for all. Part of it is going to be the fact that he knows I like him a lot but he doesn't know the extent of my once (and hopefully slowly fading away) feelings for him. So that's going to be embarrassing for me. Plus a part of me didn't want him to think I was being silly and schoolgirlish yada yada. I want him to see me in good light. But I suppose that doesn't matter now. But if I do tell him the whole truth, he will surely cut me off since he doesn't want drama.

 

Plus he wouldn't force me to stay in touch because I am not that important and for a large part, he doesn't force people against their wishes to do anything (though at the beginning there was quite a bit of manipulation from his end before I capitulated). So he would definitely understand and most likely adhere to my wishes. I have to let my embarrassment go and confess why so he understands. THAT would definitely take care of the 1% and the NC.

[Orokotikki]

And so that he knows the door isn't shut and locked, its open a crack with your ear to the door so he can open it with honeyed words and kibbles?

 

(In other words a chance for him to go "Oooh, you do have real feelings for me, wait this can work!")

 

Make sure that door is shut and locked.

 

If you must tell him before going NC, understand that real NC means eliminating ways he can contact you - it does not mean not responding to him, it means make it impossible for you to contact him, or see snippets of his life, etc.

[brokenandhopeless]

Hi Orokotikki,

 

Thanks. Nope, knowing him he won't say that. Sometimes when drunk he has said some things but later makes it a point to say it was all when he was drunk (just so I am kept in my place).

 

I agree, if going NC it has to be the way you and Abetterme describe. I've failed far too many times already.

[InvisibleLady]

I haven't posted on here in a while. But because of Broken's update to this thread and because I can relate to so much of what Abetterme is saying I figured I'd add my $.02 for what it's worth.

I made it to SIX MONTHS of NC when xMM reached out by text just before Christmas. I seriously thought he never would! And hoped he wouldn't because I wasn't sure I would have the strength to ignore and block. After 3 days I replied. We were long distance as well, only met twice in person, so... 6 months of NC, over a year since we had seen each other and then the text. Classic, "I miss you; I still love you & hope you are well".

 

Casual chatting once in a while, maybe a couple times per month. I rarely initiated, like Broken I didn't want to appear needy or 'sucked in' even though I was getting there. Four months in I told him I had a work trip in his state soon and he wanted to meet for lunch. I felt like it could be harmless and once he knew I might be coming he texted more often for the whole month before, complete with lovebombing and all the trimmings. Finally, when I was giving him the update on my trip, no answer. NO RESPONSE. TOTAL GHOST move. So I went and started digging around and went pretty deep on social media (bc we have each other blocked) and I learned his W is pregnant!! Not sure how far along, I saw a photo and she had a bump already so I am sure he must have known while he was making plans to see me. Unless he didn’t and she is fast show-er, everyone is different. I texted a few days later just generically to see if he would tell me about it and still no response.

 

[side note: 1.5 years ago he wanted a vasectomy, she was on the pill and neither wanted more kids. I am only speculating but maybe this is the band-aid W thinks will “fix” the marriage or she is “re-claiming her man”. This child will be far apart in age from the others bc they didn't plan on more.]

After the no response I sent one last, brief text to xMM to tell him off. Told him things I had never said to him before about his cowardice, told him I wouldn't contact him again and told him to delete my number. First time either of us has ever asked for NC. Because it was me, I felt great that day. But then the rejection & hurt set in that he didn’t even have the empathy to explain himself or apologize (never has!) or even reply at all.

 

 

But the new pregnancy will get old (if that's even the reason he ghosted), having kids never stopped him from having an affair, this kid won't change him either. What then? He comes back AGAIN when HE feels like it?? No thanks.

 

Anyway, the point is, the LC contact works great until it doesn’t. Because it’s always on his terms. And it’s fine as long as he wants it, but he maintains his carefree life and when he is done he just ghosts. And then there you are hurt & rejected all over again. With a raw wound just like it was when it ended. Take control and be the one to end it.

Like Abetterme, I recently started readingPost Male Syndrome and it is helpful to understand that these men are emotionally unavailable narcissists. I want to get to the place where Abetterme is where I just feel disgust over the situation. Her post helped me too.

[Abetterme]

Yes!!! Exactly Invisible...another great reminder of why it just doesn’t work. I have read your story and I am sorry you had a set back. I do believe everyone has to come to things on their own time and believe me, I still have many many days of anger, but you eventually get to the point where you need to remind yourself that you do have the control. I mention the brief contact with xMM a couple months ago. He dropped a similar “life change” bomb on me, just knowing it would effect me. I could only think “what a freaking loser”. I am so glad you didn’t meet up with him. It wouldn’t have been good and now you’ve got the closure you needed by blocking him.

 

I saw Had Me Over a Barrel post something about being several years out and corresponding briefly and just the lack of civility that you would expect in a friendship not meeting her expectations. Even though she is in a good place, this man still managed to disappoint her. It was further a push that the door needs to stay locked.

 

@broken - It sounds like maybe fear of embarrassing yourself is keeping you locked in. I think you can just say “look, I have done a lot of thinking and because our friendship has crossed boundaries at one time, I realize how truly disrespectful it is to my husband staying in contact with you. I wish you all the best” and move on. You save face, but you need to get control of the will. I love a glass of wine, but if the doc told me tomorrow one more glass would make my liver burst, I’d be done. Go NC like your life depends on, because it does.

 

I would also put in another plug for therapy. I have spent a lot of time on myself the last 6 months and believe it will also help you get to the root of what you’re getting out of this half assed “friendship”. I’m sure your real friends would love hearing from you more. Thinking of you both.

[DKT3]

Like all addictions the first real step is genuinely wanting to stop. She doesn't want to stop. None of us are really controlled by emotion, we simply use it as an excuse when we dont want to do things we know we should.

 

Not really wanting to be done with this guy really just means she is holding out hope that something will come of it. Not sure how that works since she is married.

 

I've been accused of being robotic when it comes to my ability to cut people off in life, so take this last part for what its worth coming from a extremely emotionally controlled person.

 

Just stop...stop communication, stop thinking about him, when you do push thoughts towards how your family will react if they knew. Just stop.

[ZBA]

@Broken, I’ve read your thread from start to finish. I’ve felt your moments of despair as well. You’ve mentioned a number of times about how your MM holds all the power - in initiating, in ending the convo, and in someday cutting you off for good. What better way to reclaim your power than to ghost him? No explanation necessary. Just walk away silently. It is exactly what I did and it was hard at first because I still cared, but I feel SO good now. Over a year of NC and never ever looking back. It has been incredibly empowering and liberating. You can feel this as well, you just have to choose to.

 

@ABetterMe: POST MALE SYNDROME! The best site ever! She’s amazing. Her articles got me thru that first rough period after ghosting xMM. Broken, and anyone else struggling, I HIGHLY recommend giving her articles a read. I’ve revisited her page anytime I was feeling triggered and needed reminders to keep me on track.

 

Broken, feel free to PM me if you want me to dig up some of the specific articles I found helpful, or if you need to talk.