A is over but I don't want to unfriend the OW

[Luvmykidz]

You are not staying as much to honor your love or commitment for this woman as much as you are staying to keep your own repuatation. You basically said as much in your last post.

 

Sure you are honouring your commitment. But, those are just words. It's semantics. Your actions have proven otherwise for the past 15 years.

 

Are your kids still at home? What are their ages?

 

Yes. I still have two kids at home, the other three I mentioned before are grown. The ones still at home are 11 and 8. I can't face them if I leave their mother. It's essentially leaving them too, which is abandonment.

[Luvmykidz]

I feel that I wasn't really doing anything bad until I had sex with OW. The only thing I was guilty of before that is loving her, which I wish I could just erase. If I knew how to, I would.

[Luvmykidz]

Your story is a great example of why it is not a good idea to marry because you feel obligated. "Doing the right thing" isn't a healthy reason for spending the rest of your life with someone. You believe that you are such a great person because you didn't leave your children but your affairs show that you are anything but committed to your marriage.

 

How would you feel if your children knew what their father was up to? I'm mentioning them since it is clear that they are the only reason you are with your wife. I don't believe that you ever loved your wife either. It took three children for you to grudgingly marry her and you have been unfaithful more than once.

 

Yes, I recognize I made a mistake getting her pregnant first. I don't know if I would have married her if not. Also, the W was competing with other women from the start and she knew it but she figured if she could meet my needs, I would pick her. I eventually did, we just did things backwards in getting her pregnant before M. My kids think I'm the best thing since sliced bread. I am a great dad and always there for them from day one. I hate that I love OW but she was there before W. I can't help that.

[BaileyB]

Yes. I still have two kids at home, the other three I mentioned before are grown. The ones still at home are 11 and 8. I can't face them if I leave their mother. It's essentially leaving them too, which is abandonment.

 

No, it's not abandonment. You may feel that way, because your father cheated on your mother and left you. But staying in an unhappy marriage is not necessarily the better answer.

 

Do you love this woman? Do you want to be married to her? Take the children out of the discussion... Do you see yourself growing old with this woman?

 

If the answer is no, you have the right to say "We have grown apart. It happens all the time. We are getting a divorce but we both still love you. We will live apart but we will continue to coparent and offer you two healthy and happy homes..."

 

It's better than offering one unhappy, unhealthy home with two parents who do not treat each other with love and kindness.

 

Being honest about your feelings and divorcing your wife demonstrates more personal integrity than staying out of some misguided sense of duty ans continuing to lie and cheat on your wife.

 

As BettyDrapper said, sometimes the most honourable decisions are the hardest.

[Luvmykidz]

Why did you lie and tell your wife it was a one night stand when it was an affair that spanned 15 years?

 

Have you told your wife you're a serial cheater and cheated earlier in the marriage as well?

 

 

Why do you minimize your behavior?

 

Your wife doesn't actually know who she's married to.

 

If you can become a husband to your wife then let her go so she can find a man who actually SHOWS her what it's like to really be loved and honored.

 

 

I hope your wife exposed you to all friends and family! Or... have you gone unscathed on exposure as well?

 

She knows about my earlier A. I was forthcoming about it but I had no feelings for that OW. When it comes to this OW, who I feel is the love of my life, how can I really tell her that truth?! Also she posts on FB about how wonderful our M is that's why people look up to us as the couple goal they want to achieve. My W chooses to stay and ending the M will be her decision, not mine.

[William]

Moderation added some paragraphs to the starting post, fixed/truncated some quotes and redacted a bit of language.

 

I'll remind members that our civility guidelines still apply even when disagreeing with someone's life/relationship choices. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

[BaileyB]

Also she posts on FB about how wonderful our M is that's why people look up to us as the couple goal they want to achieve.

 

My W chooses to stay and ending the M will be her decision, not mine.

 

Who cares what other people think of your marriage? The only two people who matter are you and your wife. And your children.

 

Facebook is crap! People post all kinds of crap on Facebook, much of it a total fabrication. I have a friend who's wife had just left him but he continued to post pictures with his kids... to anyone who didn't know the real story, they would think his life was great and he was father of the year. It's NOT REAL and it DOESNT MATTER.

 

If you are making your life decisions based on what people on Facebook will think, then you have a real problem. And, if you allow your wife to control your life's destiny, well then... you will deserve whatever unhappiness you will feel.

 

It's a convenient way to absolve your guilt... To make yourself a martyr and allow your wife to make the decision to stay or end your marriage. Make her the bad person, that she would have to decide it's done. When the truth is, you have likely contributed more to the demise of your marriage than your wife.

[Luvmykidz]

No, it's not abandonment. You may feel that way, because your father cheated on your mother and left you. But staying in an unhappy marriage is not necessarily the better answer.

 

Do you love this woman? Do you want to be married to her? Take the children out of the discussion... Do you see yourself growing old with this woman?

 

If the answer is no, you have the right to say "We have grown apart. It happens all the time. We are getting a divorce but we both still love you. We will live apart but we will continue to coparent and offer you two healthy and happy homes..."

 

It's better than offering one unhappy, unhealthy home with two parents who do not treat each other with love and kindness.

 

Being honest about your feelings and divorcing your wife demonstrates more personal integrity than staying out of some misguided sense of duty ans continuing to lie and cheat on your wife.

 

As BettyDrapper said, sometimes the most honourable decisions are the hardest.

 

Thanks. I love my W. Her loyalty is impeccable. She's also very funny. She just doesn't ignite that spark in me anymore. She's also not OW. No one is. I have looked for her in others could never find her. She stopped caring about how she looks years ago and always wants to stay in bed. She feels that because she has me, she doesn't have to put in the effort to look good. And this dating back to my first A, which I had as revenge because it seemed like she just didn't care anymore. How can I tell my W that I truly love OW? There's no good way or right time to say it.

[Luvmykidz]

It is an affair. Research emotional affair... you have been emotionally connected to the OW so much - that you already abandoned your family. You've allowed this OW to consume your mind and your emotions. You've short changed your family and especially your wife to the point that you won't completely eliminate the OW. That's some high emotions! Emotions I don't see you expressing towards your wife!

 

 

 

 

Yes, I see from your username you love your kids. But you do them a disservice when you don't love their Mother yet stay married to her. You've cheated twice. You're broken on the inside and need serious help. Your moral compass is broken.

 

What kind of example are you showing them in this marriage? That you stay married and treat your wife with disregard? NO WAY! That's cruel and so u fair to your wife!

 

Be an example that leaves her so someone WILL love her entirely!

 

 

 

 

But you were doing something bad, right? Do you get that now? You put your wife's health at risk and you risked blowing up your whole family because you are selfish and self centered. If you can't fix that then be single. You are of no value to anyone when you only think of yourself that much.

 

I notice you seem to see yourself like a victim! Your wife is the victim! You're still a preditor because you're still lying and covering up the truth.

 

Own who you are! You're a serial cheater who loves his OW above his wife.

 

You're kids only know who you PRETEND to be. They don't k OW the real you.

 

 

 

 

You're not a great Dad - admit it. A great Dad doesn't do this to his family much less his wife.

 

 

You obviously stay so you don't have to pay CS, likely spousal support and have visitation with your kids.

 

You won't stop being their Dad if you divorce - that role is on you forever.

 

How long have you been married? Does your wife work?

 

It is because of that emotional connection that I don't have with anyone else that I kept backing off from OW over the course of 15 years. Guilt made me do that. I felt terrible that I was M but still in love with OW Ever since I lost OW years ago, I haven't been able to be faithful and haven't loved anyone that way since. I've been married 17 years and yes, my wife works although she keeps all of her income. I pay all of the bills. You are right about a lot of what you said and forcing me to take a hard look at myself.

[Luvmykidz]

It's the only way. You don't love you wife the way she deserves. You don't honor or respect her.

 

She will get over it, believe me... she will...and in the long run your kids will see that when there's no love or respect in a marriage it's better that it ends.

 

Get honest. Bare minimum your wife deserves to know your truth at this point.

 

Everything will make more sense to her when you get real. At the minimum, hand her that peace of mind.

 

Moving forward you be the best Dad you can be.

 

She's been in my life so long, no matter what, that I can't imagine losing her. I'm conflicted.

[BaileyB]

I've been married 17 years and yes, my wife works although she keeps all of her income. I pay all of the bills.

 

Come again... what does she do with her money? Does she pay for living expenses, mortgage, college educations for the children... It's just a curious question.

[carhill]

How does your wife feel about marriage counseling? By my quick scan, she knows most if not all about at least one of your affairs and has chosen to remain in the marriage. Are you both willing to put in the work to make the M job #1 and work with a professional to do that?

 

If both you and your wife, each fully informed, wish to move forward with the M on mutually agreeable terms, it's your M and your choice. It won't be easy. It may fail. It may succeed. The outcome is unknown.

 

Counseling can help you work through unfinished business with the OW which is what I'm hearing from you. There's a residual attachment and you're stuck, even with substantial NC. As long as there's unfinished business, IMO you'll always be fighting it. It'll be lurking in the background. That's not fair to you or your family.

 

IMO, if you do love your wife, give it a shot. If that is in any way ambiguous, even a little, be courageous and file for divorce. You don't need her permission or cooperation. Counseling can help you clarify that, to see it and express it clearly and without ambiguity. It's up to you though. You have to want it, clarity that is, and accept it.

[Luvmykidz]

Come again... what does she do with her money? Does she pay for living expenses, mortgage, college educations for the children... It's just a curious question.

 

I'm not sure what she does with her money other than spends it how she wants. But to her, the fact that I pay all of the bills and take care of home, that's her version of love.

[Luvmykidz]

I don't think you're conflicted. Not being willing to delete her from FB is telling.

 

You're never going to be into your wife the way you are into the OW.

 

You're just not being honest and fair to your wife.

 

I don't mean to be so hard on you - but dude, you're not doing anyone any favors by staying married when you're completely in love with the OW.

 

It cruel. So just make it end so your wife's pain can end...and she can begin healing.

 

You still owe her your truth - she can't heal without knowing what's real.

 

Then you can go and be with your OW and father your children as the grow up.

 

But get counseling... that could help you a bundle to think of others besides yourself and how your actions affect others.

 

Learn to match your actions and words - anything less is living a lie...and that sucks.

 

I feel that if OW is the one that does the deleting of me via social mediainstead of me deleting her, then it's her decision that she'll have to live with. If it's her choice then it's clear that maybe we aren't meant to be. In other words, id rather not be the person to do it. I doubt she would take me back after all this. I act like she doesn't exist, I guess she thinks I'm over her. I'm trying to convince myself that I can do it.

[BaileyB]

I'm not sure what she does with her money other than spends it how she wants. But to her, the fact that I pay all of the bills and take care of home, that's her version of love.

 

Interesting.

 

There are probably not many men would agree to that arrangement. There are also probably not many women that would expect that kind of arrangement.

 

Divorce, albeit she would get child support and possibly some spousal support, would definitely not be in her financial best interest. Perhaps, another reason why she is determined to stay married, despite your affairs. Just a thought.

[BaileyB]

I feel that if OW is the one that does the deleting of me via social mediainstead of me deleting her, then it's her decision that she'll have to live with. If it's her choice then it's clear that maybe we aren't meant to be. In other words, id rather not be the person to do it.

 

Again, a convenient way to absolve yourself from the responsibility of having to make the difficult decisions. And perhaps, absolve yourself from the guilt you feel toward the OW.

 

You are just a sail blowing in the wind... you will go whichever way the wind blows.

[Striver]

I feel that if OW is the one that does the deleting of me via social mediainstead of me deleting her, then it's her decision that she'll have to live with. If it's her choice then it's clear that maybe we aren't meant to be. In other words, id rather not be the person to do it. I doubt she would take me back after all this. I act like she doesn't exist, I guess she thinks I'm over her. I'm trying to convince myself that I can do it.

 

If you're a great guy you have to take charge here. Isn't it going to make you feel better, feel like a better person?

 

I think you don't want to do it because it will end the fantasy of the OW. You never lived with the OW, never had kids with her, you just have this perfect set of memories, this perfect life you would have had with OW if not for fate.

 

OW is not perfect, you are not perfect, you would not have had a perfect life together. You even said you had other offers other than your W, but you chose her! Or you got her pregnant. You don't seem to like to make bold choices, like to please people, you may have been high risk for that.

 

I don't think it's an accident that you're with your wife. That is the real you. Whether that is healthy or not is not for me to judge.

 

Plus, these high school, childhood crushes are just deadly to the actual spouses people have. My ex left me for someone she knew before we ever met. He was actually single at the time we married, she coulda had him then. But he wouldn't commit, wouldn't have kids with her. The second he decided he was up for a relationship, off she went. She's scum. Am I better off without her? Not really. I can attract other women, but I don't trust them. Not sure I can overcome that. I'm stressed with my lifestyle. Could be worse, but I'm far short of my peers, all because of my ex. But she doesn't care, she's happy. We should care about hurting others, hurting our spouses. But if we don't, if we're crass and selfish, hey, we can get everything we want. That part worked out for my ex in spades.

 

I don't have the high school crush problem. Too much of a nerd. All of my crushes were with guys with more game. The best fit for me hooked up with and married a guy she started dating in high school, stayed with him and moved away and has since passed on.

 

I digress. I am fine with you staying with your family. I would not disclose your full feelings about OW to your wife. You are right there, she does not deserve that. You do need to unfriend OW.

[Mr. Lucky]

Counseling can help you clarify that, to see it and express it clearly and without ambiguity. It's up to you though. You have to want it, clarity that is, and accept it.

 

Beyond this good advice, I wonder Luvmykidz if you've ever considered individual therapy?

 

You've shown a tremendous ability to undermine your own stated goals and intentions.

 

You didn't want to repeat your Dad's mistakes yet you had three children out of wedlock.

 

You say you believe in marriage yet you've cheated multiple times over the course of many years.

 

You swear you love your wife yet you won't go NC with your AP.

 

You don't want to abandon your kids yet you've consistently put your marriage in jeopardy.

 

I could go on but the pattern is pretty clear - no one has been more dangerous to the things and ideals you say you hold dear than you.

 

Were it me, I'd want to understand why that is...

 

Mr. Lucky

[PhillyLibertyBelle]

It all boils down to a few things you’ve posted here OP:

 

My OW is my soulmate, she loves me and knows me like no one else does. I am in love with OW and always will be. My OW is beautiful and gets more beautiful every day.

 

You said you love your wife but you aren’t in love with her. You don’t mention one positive feeling she gives you. You don’t call her your soulmate.

 

You say you have 100% to the marriage. Really what you have committed to is not changing anything.

 

You don’t have a marriage you have a group of people that you have familial love for that you finance.

 

Marriage is more than that. It’s about being in love. It’s about making your spouse feel good and her making you feel good. It’s about your wife being your soulmate which she isn’t and in fact she doesn’t know the man she is married to because she has no idea what your real thoughts and feelings are

 

You have wasted a decade and a half of your wife’s life but staying married to someone you aren’t in love with but are still in love with someone else who you aren’t even in contact with, so the “OW” is incidental here because she is the “OW” only in your mind and for saying you love your wife and you’re “in love” with the OW you certainly have treated them both horrendously.

 

Stop living a fake life of the great pretender. Be truthful with everyone including yourself that you’re not in love with your wife you never will be, and set everyone free to find people who will like and love them instead of being the puppet master in this charade you call a marriage.

[Luvmykidz]

Carhill, he doesn't love his wife like he loves and has always loved his OW.

 

He's lied and minimized to his wife... and he's unwilling to delete the OW from FB. He also won't tell his wife who the OW is.

 

He's protecting his OW more than he's being honest to his wife... and I don't see how any counselor can force him to love a wife he's really not into.

 

He's in it so he looks good to his family and community... other than that he mainly has criticism for his wife - she'd likely be happier without him.

 

I'm just trying to keep the peace at this point. What she doesn't know can't hurt her. My W also has mental health issues such as depression and anxiety so that's why I just want to move on from this situation with the OW and keep ignoring her. That will make her think I don't love her, which will stop her from thinking she can ever reach out to me again. It's working well. I was wrong for sleeping with her but I have to move on now.

[carhill]

OP, question: How well do you compartmentalize?

 

As an example, if/when you are intimate with your wife, not necessarily sexually, and expressing your desire and appreciation for her, do you feel focused and in the moment or is that love for the OW lurking in background? I mention that because people love differently and with different people and those feelings may or may not intrude on each other.

 

Do you feel your M is more of a legal arrangement than a loving partnership? That's not uncommon. If we were all mind readers I'd probably be shocked at how common it is. You only know what's in your mind. How do you view your marriage?

 

You can divorce, sure. Counseling can help you with that. It helped me a bunch. Helped with unfinished OW business too.

 

Tough choice. Sounds like your W wants to be in it for the long haul however that ends up being, in love or loving or xxxx. Would you be willing to be open and transparent with her about the OW in counseling? For it to work you'd have to want that. No secrets from your spouse.

 

IDK, you're both in your 50's. I divorced around 50. Best choice we both made, and we made it with all the cards on the table. Down the road I'm glad we did it that way. Your choice will be yours. I wish you wisdom in making it.

[JDJ]

I have a hard time unfriending her for some reason.

 

It's just one click. Try it on another computer if it is not working, or contact Facebook support. It should only take a second.

[Luvmykidz]

Interesting.

 

There are probably not many men would agree to that arrangement. There are also probably not many women that would expect that kind of arrangement.

 

Divorce, albeit she would get child support and possibly some spousal support, would definitely not be in her financial best interest. Perhaps, another reason why she is determined to stay married, despite your affairs. Just a thought.

 

I agree to it because I had the A years ago. But it also makes me resentful that I have to pay everything. She probably is staying for financial reasons. The fact that I provide meets one of her most important needs and she feels loved.

[Luvmykidz]

It's just one click. Try it on another computer if it is not working, or contact Facebook support. It should only take a second.

 

Easier said than done. I will never speak to her again but I still like to look at her and see how she's doing.

[Luvmykidz]

Let's get this straight... according to you:

 

Your OW is your soulmate so you're going to ignore her.

 

And your wife you aren't in love with but need to be sure you're with to keep the peace?

 

Is that a right way to live life? If this is an agreement you've made with yourself then why don't you delete the OW from FB? That not right to be pretending to be working on your M...yet looking at the OW.

 

You are right. I'm at war with myself. I want to make the M work so I have to finally ignore my feelings and desires for once. I'm willing to sacrifice that to keep my marriage and kids. Yes, I love to look at the OW. She's strikingly beautiful and I've never met anyone like her in my life. I'm trying to combat my skeletons.